Dating: How's your luck? - Page 410

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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.

Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.

Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating.

farvacola

United States18845 Posts

February 13 2014 23:03 GMT

#8181

Mostly because this thread is full of posts basically asking, "Should I do this, and how will it appear?" and PUA'ers tend to have a divergent opinion on a lot of them.

WarSame

Canada1950 Posts

February 13 2014 23:06 GMT

#8182

What is the problem with the statement "nice guys finish last"? From everything I have ever seen in my personal life I can state this to be 100% true. I think the main problem is that the 2 of you have different definitions of "nice guy". As far as I can tell, Fishjie has it as "a weak person who will supplicate a person in order to gain their approval", which is what I have seen and which absolutely does not work. Farvacola has it as "being nice to a person". I think it should be obvious to anyone that being nice to people is a good trait to have. I think it should also be obvious that being a person's whim-slave won't make a relationship likely, and if it does result in a relationship it will not be an even one. Having seen enough of those in my life I can say confidently that it is not a good situation to be in. So as far as I can see, each of you is right in the domain of your own definition. However, your inability to thresh out the differences in your thoughts is pretty sad. You're just arguing at each other, rather than bothering to argue your points, and to have a legitimate discussion.

rezoacken

Canada2719 Posts

February 13 2014 23:09 GMT

#8183

Certainly but then when you directly make the statement that making harmless cookies put you in the "a weak person who will supplicate a person in order to gain their approval", that is a bit too much.

farvacola

United States18845 Posts

February 13 2014 23:10 GMT

#8184

^That is the essence of my argument, that almost no action is essentially "weak" nor "supplicating".

WombaT

Northern Ireland26225 Posts

February 13 2014 23:11 GMT

#8185

Surely not making cookies because you think women won't want to bang you for being 'weak' is beta behaviour?

WombaT

Northern Ireland26225 Posts

February 13 2014 23:13 GMT

#8186

*tongue firmly in cheek.

fishjie

United States1519 Posts

February 13 2014 23:14 GMT

#8187

On February 14 2014 07:52 farvacola wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 14 2014 07:38 fishjie wrote:

On February 14 2014 07:27 farvacola wrote:

On February 14 2014 06:48 fishjie wrote:

On February 14 2014 04:04 farvacola wrote:
Statements like "girls like ____" belong in a PUA thread. Like I said, if presented correctly, cookies can even get you laid. Part of the reason this thread is so full of bullshit has to do with nerds being far too concerned with the essential form of things, a form that in most cases simply doesn't exist. In other words, when a dozen awkward nerds present their respective love interests with gifts only to be friendzoned, that doesn't actually mean that presenting gifts is in any way a guaranteed path to the friendzone anymore than it indicates that a dozen nerds simply have no idea how to talk to women in a way that communicates their interest in an alluring fashion. Furthermore, this sort of thinking relies on women acting and behaving in a categorically very narrow manner, a manner which tends to be constructed by love scorned men a priori. This is why saying things like "such and such is guaranteed friendzone" ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy that tricks men already unlucky in love into thinking that women are to be dealt with in only a very specific way when, in reality, they are just like men in regards to their interests, romantic desires, and attractions being incredibly varied,

This is a thread about dating, why would PUA like statements be invalid? The only bad thing about PUA is a lot of it relies on canned tricks as a substitution for not having any real personality, ie opening up with some corny line like "HEY DID YOU SEE THAT FIGHT OUTSIDE???". You can spot these type of people at the club, wearing the fedora hat, sitting by themselves, trying to peacock and failing miserably. That's pretty immature, as is the whole obsession of bedding as many women people as possible in one night stands, and reducing them to a number between 1-10 in terms of looks.

But there is good advice to be found on there to go along with the bad. Quite frankly, baking someone who is not your girlfriend cookies on valentines day reeks of desperation. Nice guys do finish last. Doesn't mean you have to be an asshole, but you do have to be confident, stand up for yourself when women treat you like shit (the stories at the start of this thread describe women walking all over men, happened to me as well and learned the hard way never to allow that to happen again), and ask girls out on dates and be up front about what you want. PUA is big against supplication, and anecdotally, I've found this to be true. Personally had more success after learning to become more indifferent and aloof in the beginning (dating multiple girls helps with this), as opposed to doing stuff like lavishing gifts and attention (ie baking goods) on girls I barely even know. But yeah, just because something works for me doesn't mean it will work for someone else. However, I have universally seen that being a weak nice guy who can't even ask a girl out does not work.

"Nice guys do finish last." is one of the dumber things I've read on this website, particularly in response to what I said; you are fitting the "nothing I organically did worked for me so I pretend that PUA aphorisms are always true" role rather perfectly, and your performance "reeks" of narrow minded, quasi misogynistic desperation. Lets be real, when you have to basically pretend that over 50 percent of the human population is somehow different enough to warrant saying things like "No woman would touch the penis of a nice man", alarm bells should be going off. Something is amiss, and if you actually are interested in fostering multidimensional, meaningful relationships with members of the opposite sex, you really ought to revisit the notion that women in general are as simple to predict as a character in Tokimeki Memorial.

its like you read one sentence of my entire post and ignored the rest. it doesn't matter if you believe me or not, the guy can continue to try and win her over by lavishing attention on her, but if you even read any of the horror stories in this thread, my statements are pretty much corroborated. like i said if you can make being weak and supplicating personality work for you, great, but its obvious from everything i see in real life and on this thread that it obviously doesn't. i'm not really sure why you say i'm the desperate one, i'm not the one baking cookies for women who are not my girlfriend in hopes of getting laid. and how is my advising the dude to ask out a girl directly instead of beating around the bush being misogynistic? pretty baseless accusations there. i could go ahead and say you're lashing out in anger because you're one of those nice guys who orbit other dude's girlfriends, always praising her and doing stuff for her, but never getting anywhere.

Your stories are only being corroborated by other dudes who are as awkward (or should I just say "anything but nice"?) around women as you are. It only makes sense that a dose of artificial "confidence" would trick y'all into thinking that being nice and being weak are the same thing, when, in reality, they are only brought together by an individual's inability to communicate effectively alongside a heavy faith in anecdotal, shallow advice that pidgeonholes attributes into terribly stilted categories.

And yes, you got me, I'm only a frigid hermit with a bone to pick here. Woe is me.

And like I said, its like you read only one sentence of my post. I specifically stated that one doesn't need to be an asshole. These guys are all afraid of being rejected so they beat around the bush, and then the women all use them as emotional tampons. A better way as I have stated is simply, ask them out, go on dates, and if they're not interested, move on and find someone who is. Yet I'm a misogynist? Riiiight.

You also implied that I'm not seeking meaningful relationships, except in my post I specifically stated the immaturity of the PUA view that banging tons of women on one night stand is the metric for success. Its a stretch to assume I'm some desperate misogynist who has never known the love of a woman, hence I was merely showing you how ridiculous your statements are by labeling you a frigid hermit.

Actually the best way to find a meaningful relationship is precisely to go out on lots of dates with women, until you find somebody who is compatible with you. You can't know who is compatible until you've actually dated (date != have sex with btw) a lot. All these guys are putting girls on a pedestal because they focus only on one girl to the exclusion of all else, even though the girl has made it clear they are not interested. I did that when I was younger because I was silly too, actually I would have appreciated receiving such advice back then.

Svetz

Australia311 Posts

February 13 2014 23:19 GMT

#8188

If we change the phrase to 'desperate guys finish last' will everyone be friends again?

biology]major

United States2253 Posts

February 13 2014 23:50 GMT

#8189

On February 14 2014 08:19 Svetz wrote:
If we change the phrase to 'desperate guys finish last' will everyone be friends again?

So if the guy bakes cookies expecting something in return (sex, affection), then he should not do it. If he bakes cookies because he wants to show the girl he cares about her and that's it, its fine?

edit: I think it all comes down to the intention behind the action, not the action itself

rezoacken

Canada2719 Posts

February 13 2014 23:53 GMT

#8190

The cookies are not related to the outcome.

r.Evo

Germany14080 Posts

February 14 2014 00:14 GMT

#8191

On February 14 2014 08:53 rezoacken wrote:
The cookies are not related to the outcome.

p much.

As usual if you do it to gain something from it it is in general something pretty unattractive. It's equivalent to buying your "buddy" tickets to a sports event with the intent of him doing something in return. Wanna do something nice for your buddy? Awesome! He wants to do something nice for you sometime later? Awesome, too!

Anyone doing anything with the intent of getting something out of it isn't something nice, it's trying to make a bargain.

That's why the cookies are no deal at all (if you do it because "why not?" and would have done it for most people) and a huge deal (because you're doing it for her specifically) at the same time. In this specific case the guy wants to bang the girl, doesn't want to be straight forward because of the risk of getting shot down and tries to sneak ways in to somehow figure out if she might have any kind of non-romantic interest without taking any responsibility whatsoever. Since that's the intention behind the whole "AM I BEING A WUSSY IF I DO THIS FOR HER?!" it's complete bullshit but nonetheless a symptom, not a cause.

The issue in cases like this is the complete dishonesty behind it, not much more or less.

Reason

United Kingdom2770 Posts

February 14 2014 00:27 GMT

#8192

Not fucking good.

fishjie

United States1519 Posts

February 14 2014 01:57 GMT

#8193

Good to see some people get it.

The thing is, since its valentines day, the purpose of baking cookies is completely transparent. valentines day is a huge high pressure thing for people IN relationships, not for people NOT in relationships. so giving a gift on valentines day comes off as very needy, especially if they haven't even gone on a single date yet.

if it works, its because the girl already liked him. so it will have worked in spite of the cookies, not because of the cookies. easier strat, wait until after valentines day, ask her out on a date. no need to overcomplicate things

dekuschrub

United States2069 Posts

February 14 2014 03:21 GMT

#8194

heres a fun one for you guys

So I met this girl because her friend would always bring her when i would hang out with my tutor group. she is basically exactly my type (we are all medical students btw). We all hang out a few times, and we seemed to really get along. I get her number and we start texting. We keep hanging out mainly as a small group (5-6 dinners, a couple parties, a karaoke night) all of which were really fun and I spend most of the time talking to her at the events.

Then there is this little med school dance (basically med school prom). The girl I like asks me to sit by her at the dinner right before. At this point I think I'm totally golden. We pregame and go to dinner and its as usual very fun. After dinner we split up for a bit and I go off and get totally blackout drunk and throw up in my hotel room (none of this she sees or notices my absence). I'm a huge lightweight so fucking sue me

Anyway the next week rolls around and I ask her out (via text because im a fraidy cat). She gives me I WANT TO BE FRIENDS AND I LIKE SOMEONE ELSE response.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME WTF BBQ

anyway.. nothing to do but move on right?

oDieN[Siege]

United States2905 Posts

February 14 2014 03:25 GMT

#8195

On February 14 2014 12:21 dekuschrub wrote:
heres a fun one for you guys

So I met this girl because her friend would always bring her when i would hang out with my tutor group. she is basically exactly my type (we are all medical students btw). We all hang out a few times, and we seemed to really get along. I get her number and we start texting. We keep hanging out mainly as a small group (5-6 dinners, a couple parties, a karaoke night) all of which were really fun and I spend most of the time talking to her at the events.

Then there is this little med school dance (basically med school prom). The girl I like asks me to sit by her at the dinner right before. At this point I think I'm totally golden. We pregame and go to dinner and its as usual very fun. After dinner we split up for a bit and I go off and get totally blackout drunk and throw up in my hotel room (none of this she sees or notices my absence). I'm a huge lightweight so fucking sue me

Anyway the next week rolls around and I ask her out (via text because im a fraidy cat). She gives me I WANT TO BE FRIENDS AND I LIKE SOMEONE ELSE response.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME WTF BBQ

anyway.. nothing to do but move on right?

Either she's playing games with you to see how far you'll go to get back into her focus, or she got turned off by you doing piss drunk, and noticed you while you were in this state.

I would try texting her to see what's up, and if she still seems to give you the cold, I would say just move on..

WombaT

Northern Ireland26225 Posts

February 14 2014 03:26 GMT

#8196

I had something similar to me happen with some girl, I don't know perhaps you pissed her off by your absence (I know that was the case with me) or perhaps she didn't dig you in that sense?

Anyway yeah, move on sounds the best plan of action from where I'm standing in that you have kind of put it out there and its not been reciprocated for whatever reasons she might have.

oDieN[Siege]

United States2905 Posts

February 14 2014 03:28 GMT

#8197

My Valentine's Day Observation:
If you're in a relationship; This day isn't a big deal.
If you're single, It's more like "wahhhh, I'm single, Valentine's Day sucks."

Your thoughts?

Wingblade

United States1806 Posts

February 14 2014 03:38 GMT

#8198

On February 14 2014 12:28 oDieN wrote:
My Valentine's Day Observation:
If you're in a relationship; This day isn't a big deal.
If you're single, It's more like "wahhhh, I'm single, Valentine's Day sucks."

Your thoughts?

What's Valentines Day? I just know I'm excited for Singles Awareness Day tomorrow since I get rejected like it's my job!

rebdomine

6040 Posts

February 14 2014 03:43 GMT

#8199

Depends how long you are into the relationship I guess. The first Valentine's Day with a significant other is a pretty big deal.

Zooper31

United States5711 Posts

February 14 2014 03:48 GMT

#8200

Realized I have plans to go to an anime convention on Valentines day without even knowing it.

Hopefully I can meet a cool chick haha. Question, cosplaying help my chances or not? It would involve something big covering my entire head lol. Thinking not, unless it's a particular favorite of said girl.

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