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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On February 13 2014 07:40 Nerevar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 07:31 Najda wrote:On February 13 2014 07:13 Nerevar wrote:On February 13 2014 07:02 Najda wrote:
Invite her over to make the cookies together. That would be perfect (plus booze), except for the logistical problem of both of us commuting to university from home on opposite sides of town. How long is the drive from her house to yours? About 40 minutes, but the fact that both of us are still living with family and commuting to uni really does make this option out of the question right now until I get my own place hopefully within a semester or two.
I understand this problem, I don't even have my own room at the moment so it makes getting intimate with someone hard.
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On February 11 2014 11:46 HeeroFX wrote:A bit of a rant/advice seeking post. + Show Spoiler +So I really like this girl. I have known her for a long time. She lives in my home town, but I am not there anymore.I moved for college and pretty much live here, not a big deal she is 2 hours away I have a car. Last fall she broke up with a guy who she was with a long time. I was Mr. Comforting, because I consider her a super close friend. Well I guess they have had this on and off thing going on....the whole time I didn't know, we talked about other things. Anyway I confessed my feelings for her and all of that. She didn't deny me but told me she wasn't in a place to be dating. So I said..well it felt good to get that out there. And now I find out its because of this mother fucker she has been with, and once again she is upset over him. And she comes to me. I comforted her, but this time I was more firm and not as like "it will be ok" more like "wtf you doing he treated you like trash before what do you expect?" before this I spent like $70 to send her flowers on V-day. Maybe as a grand gesture or something. No...I sent them because I love her I really do and I wanted to show her hey someone cares. I feel stupid right now. I don't want to lose the friendship, but I want her heart...I have crushed on her since HS....7 years never thought I would get to know her like I do. I guess what she needs right now is just a friend who gives a damn about her...that's my role. I think there is going to come a point where I either drop her or she figures out I am not that bad of a guy...oh well last semester of college yay!
ugh dude this is literally like the prototypical friend zone situation and you are the canonical nice guy. like seriously, its hard to tell if this is a joke post. stop putting her on a pedestal, 7 years?!?! she's not that amazing and she's obviously not into you at all. you wasted 70$ for nothing. date other women. lots of other women. don't stop until you find someone who returns your feelings for them. you need to stand up for yourself. because you are willing to be her emotional tampon, she will use you as one. while going back to guys that treat her like trash.
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On February 13 2014 07:47 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 07:40 Nerevar wrote:On February 13 2014 07:31 Najda wrote:On February 13 2014 07:13 Nerevar wrote:On February 13 2014 07:02 Najda wrote:
Invite her over to make the cookies together. That would be perfect (plus booze), except for the logistical problem of both of us commuting to university from home on opposite sides of town. How long is the drive from her house to yours? About 40 minutes, but the fact that both of us are still living with family and commuting to uni really does make this option out of the question right now until I get my own place hopefully within a semester or two. I'm not trying to bang her lol. Not yet at least. I just plan to state my intentions, gauge her interest, and move on from there depending on her response. Translation is that you WANT to bang her but you're not allowing yourself to be honest with yourself or her about it. Instead you'd rather give random statements and wait for her approval before doing anything that even remotely involves personal risk. Now that is a lot more beta and unattractive than any amount of cookies you could ever make for someone.
No man ever got any pussy by acting like a pussy...except dave navarro
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On February 13 2014 05:45 farvacola wrote:
Giving a female something on valentines day is not a fast track to the friendzone. In fact, some artfully prepared baked goods can work wonders for progressing romance when presented appropriately, no matter the day.
There's a big difference between the intended action of "I baked some cookies, here, have some!" and "I baked cookies. Want to go grab a coffee and try them?"
The former is friend material, the latter is potential dating material.
EDIT: to elaborate, in case the point isn't clear. In both cases you establish that you baked cookies, somewhat independent of whatever she thinks of them. However, in the former she is left wondering why you gave them to her, what you mean with that, etc. The simplest and most straightforward answer is:
a) He's a nice guy doing it out of freindship
or b) He likes me, but is wimping out on actually asking me out.
Both end in friendzone, because in (a) she's looking at you as a friend and in (b) she's turned off by your wimpy attitude. You may have a chance to change that, but you're off to a bad start.
In the latter situation, if she says no to coffee you can always just give her the cookies anyway, but you have immediately established your intentions. You have made it clear that you aren't just into randomly giving her cookies: you want to spend time with her. Even if she doesn't have time for coffee and the net result is exactly the same as in the first case, you have established yourself as potential dating material by acting like it.
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Your entire spiel revolves around a very narrow and specific sort of presentation, one that guarantees the outcomes you've described. There are ways in which one can present a gift like cookies without seeming wishy washy while also being very clear as to your intentions. In the end, and pardon the figure of speech, men and women are quite similar when it comes to how having something good in their mouths can change their temperament rather dramatically. After that its all up to you.
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Regardless of the arguments about friendzone...HeeroFX why not just go and get a different girl who won't spurn you? I mostly think when girls say things like 'I'm not in a good position to be dating right now' it's kind of baloney and they are either a) keeping you on the hook but waiting for other prospective guys or b) they don't want to harm the friendship they have with you so they don't want to straight up deny you. I think there are always single and ready-to-date girls you will be able to find out there in the wide world. The question is: are you afraid of actually manning up and looking for them/ striking up conversations? Could you be hiding behind the potentiality of this close relationship to avoid facing your own shortcomings in this respect?
There's nothing wrong with labouring to show a woman your qualities but you need to get a bit more insistent and also you need to begin to cast your net out and line up some other potential. Also, I would be sincerely interested to see if you carry on your friendship if you get a girlfriend that's not her. Strike one for the 'men don't always befriend girls they are attracted to purely for the purpose of securing a relationship' team lol.
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On February 14 2014 01:38 farvacola wrote:
Your entire spiel revolves around a very narrow and specific sort of presentation, one that guarantees the outcomes you've described. There are ways in which one can present a gift like cookies without seeming wishy washy while also being very clear as to your intentions. In the end, and pardon the figure of speech, men and women are quite similar when it comes to how having something good in their mouths can change their temperament rather dramatically. After that its all up to you.
They're not even dating, getting something for her on valentines day is a quick trip to the friendzone. Just comes off as way too desperate and needy. He's making himself way too easy, girls like a challenge.
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Statements like "girls like ____" belong in a PUA thread. Like I said, if presented correctly, cookies can even get you laid. Part of the reason this thread is so full of bullshit has to do with nerds being far too concerned with the essential form of things, a form that in most cases simply doesn't exist. In other words, when a dozen awkward nerds present their respective love interests with gifts only to be friendzoned, that doesn't actually mean that presenting gifts is in any way a guaranteed path to the friendzone anymore than it indicates that a dozen nerds simply have no idea how to talk to women in a way that communicates their interest in an alluring fashion. Furthermore, this sort of thinking relies on women acting and behaving in a categorically very narrow manner, a manner which tends to be constructed by love scorned men a priori. This is why saying things like "such and such is guaranteed friendzone" ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy that tricks men already unlucky in love into thinking that women are to be dealt with in only a very specific way when, in reality, they are just like men in regards to their interests, romantic desires, and attractions being incredibly varied,
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On February 14 2014 04:04 farvacola wrote:
Statements like "girls like ____" belong in a PUA thread. Like I said, if presented correctly, cookies can even get you laid. Part of the reason this thread is so full of bullshit has to do with nerds being far too concerned with the essential form of things, a form that in most cases simply doesn't exist. In other words, when a dozen awkward nerds present their respective love interests with gifts only to be friendzoned, that doesn't actually mean that presenting gifts is in any way a guaranteed path to the friendzone anymore than it indicates that a dozen nerds simply have no idea how to talk to women in a way that communicates their interest in an alluring fashion. Furthermore, this sort of thinking relies on women acting and behaving in a categorically very narrow manner, a manner which tends to be constructed by love scorned men a priori. This is why saying things like "such and such is guaranteed friendzone" ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy that tricks men already unlucky in love into thinking that women are to be dealt with in only a very specific way when, in reality, they are just like men in regards to their interests, romantic desires, and attractions being incredibly varied,
I think we basically agree... and the whole point about a different attitude is exactly what my little example was about. However, if someone is asking for advice and presents a rather awkward story about how his brother says cookies are for betas, the basic assumption is that the person doing the asking has no clue how to talk to girls. In which case it is both faster and safer to state a general rule than analyse the situation exhaustively. Especially because the latter is completely impossible to do over the internet.
Is the rule 100% right? No. Plenty of situations where giving a gift can be used as a stepping stone towards getting laid. However, in general, if you are an awkward nerd on TL with no clue how to talk to girls (as I assumed the asker was by the way he posed his question), then you're far better off taking a direct approach and thus ensuring you're not sending mixed messages.
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Fair enough, I just worry that that sort of solution is only a temporary bandaid that might get in the way of actual progress in developing social skills.
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On February 14 2014 04:04 farvacola wrote:
Statements like "girls like ____" belong in a PUA thread. Like I said, if presented correctly, cookies can even get you laid. Part of the reason this thread is so full of bullshit has to do with nerds being far too concerned with the essential form of things, a form that in most cases simply doesn't exist. In other words, when a dozen awkward nerds present their respective love interests with gifts only to be friendzoned, that doesn't actually mean that presenting gifts is in any way a guaranteed path to the friendzone anymore than it indicates that a dozen nerds simply have no idea how to talk to women in a way that communicates their interest in an alluring fashion. Furthermore, this sort of thinking relies on women acting and behaving in a categorically very narrow manner, a manner which tends to be constructed by love scorned men a priori. This is why saying things like "such and such is guaranteed friendzone" ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy that tricks men already unlucky in love into thinking that women are to be dealt with in only a very specific way when, in reality, they are just like men in regards to their interests, romantic desires, and attractions being incredibly varied,
This is a thread about dating, why would PUA like statements be invalid? The only bad thing about PUA is a lot of it relies on canned tricks as a substitution for not having any real personality, ie opening up with some corny line like "HEY DID YOU SEE THAT FIGHT OUTSIDE???". You can spot these type of people at the club, wearing the fedora hat, sitting by themselves, trying to peacock and failing miserably. That's pretty immature, as is the whole obsession of bedding as many women people as possible in one night stands, and reducing them to a number between 1-10 in terms of looks.
But there is good advice to be found on there to go along with the bad. Quite frankly, baking someone who is not your girlfriend cookies on valentines day reeks of desperation. Nice guys do finish last. Doesn't mean you have to be an asshole, but you do have to be confident, stand up for yourself when women treat you like shit (the stories at the start of this thread describe women walking all over men, happened to me as well and learned the hard way never to allow that to happen again), and ask girls out on dates and be up front about what you want. PUA is big against supplication, and anecdotally, I've found this to be true. Personally had more success after learning to become more indifferent and aloof in the beginning (dating multiple girls helps with this), as opposed to doing stuff like lavishing gifts and attention (ie baking goods) on girls I barely even know. But yeah, just because something works for me doesn't mean it will work for someone else. However, I have universally seen that being a weak nice guy who can't even ask a girl out does not work.
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Northern Ireland23894 Posts
A lot of the PUA stuff I encounter is a complete oversimplification that has a lot of grains of truth so it gets the worst kind people get on board, who then throw out terms like 'beta' and 'alpha' as if they are immutable truths and try to fit everything into narrow frameworks. Not directed at everyone here, it's pretty clear the types of advice I'm talking about.
Baking cookies in and of itself is not something that will make you appear a pussy to everyone, godamnit 
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On February 14 2014 06:48 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 04:04 farvacola wrote:
Statements like "girls like ____" belong in a PUA thread. Like I said, if presented correctly, cookies can even get you laid. Part of the reason this thread is so full of bullshit has to do with nerds being far too concerned with the essential form of things, a form that in most cases simply doesn't exist. In other words, when a dozen awkward nerds present their respective love interests with gifts only to be friendzoned, that doesn't actually mean that presenting gifts is in any way a guaranteed path to the friendzone anymore than it indicates that a dozen nerds simply have no idea how to talk to women in a way that communicates their interest in an alluring fashion. Furthermore, this sort of thinking relies on women acting and behaving in a categorically very narrow manner, a manner which tends to be constructed by love scorned men a priori. This is why saying things like "such and such is guaranteed friendzone" ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy that tricks men already unlucky in love into thinking that women are to be dealt with in only a very specific way when, in reality, they are just like men in regards to their interests, romantic desires, and attractions being incredibly varied, This is a thread about dating, why would PUA like statements be invalid? The only bad thing about PUA is a lot of it relies on canned tricks as a substitution for not having any real personality, ie opening up with some corny line like "HEY DID YOU SEE THAT FIGHT OUTSIDE???". You can spot these type of people at the club, wearing the fedora hat, sitting by themselves, trying to peacock and failing miserably. That's pretty immature, as is the whole obsession of bedding as many women people as possible in one night stands, and reducing them to a number between 1-10 in terms of looks. But there is good advice to be found on there to go along with the bad. Quite frankly, baking someone who is not your girlfriend cookies on valentines day reeks of desperation. Nice guys do finish last. Doesn't mean you have to be an asshole, but you do have to be confident, stand up for yourself when women treat you like shit (the stories at the start of this thread describe women walking all over men, happened to me as well and learned the hard way never to allow that to happen again), and ask girls out on dates and be up front about what you want. PUA is big against supplication, and anecdotally, I've found this to be true. Personally had more success after learning to become more indifferent and aloof in the beginning (dating multiple girls helps with this), as opposed to doing stuff like lavishing gifts and attention (ie baking goods) on girls I barely even know. But yeah, just because something works for me doesn't mean it will work for someone else. However, I have universally seen that being a weak nice guy who can't even ask a girl out does not work.
See, saying stuff as "Last guys do finish last" reeks more of desperation to me than baking cookies.
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On February 14 2014 06:48 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 04:04 farvacola wrote:
Statements like "girls like ____" belong in a PUA thread. Like I said, if presented correctly, cookies can even get you laid. Part of the reason this thread is so full of bullshit has to do with nerds being far too concerned with the essential form of things, a form that in most cases simply doesn't exist. In other words, when a dozen awkward nerds present their respective love interests with gifts only to be friendzoned, that doesn't actually mean that presenting gifts is in any way a guaranteed path to the friendzone anymore than it indicates that a dozen nerds simply have no idea how to talk to women in a way that communicates their interest in an alluring fashion. Furthermore, this sort of thinking relies on women acting and behaving in a categorically very narrow manner, a manner which tends to be constructed by love scorned men a priori. This is why saying things like "such and such is guaranteed friendzone" ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy that tricks men already unlucky in love into thinking that women are to be dealt with in only a very specific way when, in reality, they are just like men in regards to their interests, romantic desires, and attractions being incredibly varied, This is a thread about dating, why would PUA like statements be invalid? The only bad thing about PUA is a lot of it relies on canned tricks as a substitution for not having any real personality, ie opening up with some corny line like "HEY DID YOU SEE THAT FIGHT OUTSIDE???". You can spot these type of people at the club, wearing the fedora hat, sitting by themselves, trying to peacock and failing miserably. That's pretty immature, as is the whole obsession of bedding as many women people as possible in one night stands, and reducing them to a number between 1-10 in terms of looks. But there is good advice to be found on there to go along with the bad. Quite frankly, baking someone who is not your girlfriend cookies on valentines day reeks of desperation. Nice guys do finish last. Doesn't mean you have to be an asshole, but you do have to be confident, stand up for yourself when women treat you like shit (the stories at the start of this thread describe women walking all over men, happened to me as well and learned the hard way never to allow that to happen again), and ask girls out on dates and be up front about what you want. PUA is big against supplication, and anecdotally, I've found this to be true. Personally had more success after learning to become more indifferent and aloof in the beginning (dating multiple girls helps with this), as opposed to doing stuff like lavishing gifts and attention (ie baking goods) on girls I barely even know. But yeah, just because something works for me doesn't mean it will work for someone else. However, I have universally seen that being a weak nice guy who can't even ask a girl out does not work.
"Nice guys do finish last." is one of the dumber things I've read on this website, particularly in response to what I said; you are fitting the "nothing I organically did worked for me so I pretend that PUA aphorisms are always true" role rather perfectly, and your performance "reeks" of narrow minded, quasi misogynistic desperation. Lets be real, when you have to basically pretend that over 50 percent of the human population is somehow different enough to warrant saying things like "No woman would touch the penis of a nice man", alarm bells should be going off. Something is amiss, and if you actually are interested in fostering multidimensional, meaningful relationships with members of the opposite sex, you really ought to revisit the notion that women in general are as simple to predict as a character in Tokimeki Memorial.
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On February 14 2014 07:27 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 06:48 fishjie wrote:On February 14 2014 04:04 farvacola wrote:
Statements like "girls like ____" belong in a PUA thread. Like I said, if presented correctly, cookies can even get you laid. Part of the reason this thread is so full of bullshit has to do with nerds being far too concerned with the essential form of things, a form that in most cases simply doesn't exist. In other words, when a dozen awkward nerds present their respective love interests with gifts only to be friendzoned, that doesn't actually mean that presenting gifts is in any way a guaranteed path to the friendzone anymore than it indicates that a dozen nerds simply have no idea how to talk to women in a way that communicates their interest in an alluring fashion. Furthermore, this sort of thinking relies on women acting and behaving in a categorically very narrow manner, a manner which tends to be constructed by love scorned men a priori. This is why saying things like "such and such is guaranteed friendzone" ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy that tricks men already unlucky in love into thinking that women are to be dealt with in only a very specific way when, in reality, they are just like men in regards to their interests, romantic desires, and attractions being incredibly varied, This is a thread about dating, why would PUA like statements be invalid? The only bad thing about PUA is a lot of it relies on canned tricks as a substitution for not having any real personality, ie opening up with some corny line like "HEY DID YOU SEE THAT FIGHT OUTSIDE???". You can spot these type of people at the club, wearing the fedora hat, sitting by themselves, trying to peacock and failing miserably. That's pretty immature, as is the whole obsession of bedding as many women people as possible in one night stands, and reducing them to a number between 1-10 in terms of looks. But there is good advice to be found on there to go along with the bad. Quite frankly, baking someone who is not your girlfriend cookies on valentines day reeks of desperation. Nice guys do finish last. Doesn't mean you have to be an asshole, but you do have to be confident, stand up for yourself when women treat you like shit (the stories at the start of this thread describe women walking all over men, happened to me as well and learned the hard way never to allow that to happen again), and ask girls out on dates and be up front about what you want. PUA is big against supplication, and anecdotally, I've found this to be true. Personally had more success after learning to become more indifferent and aloof in the beginning (dating multiple girls helps with this), as opposed to doing stuff like lavishing gifts and attention (ie baking goods) on girls I barely even know. But yeah, just because something works for me doesn't mean it will work for someone else. However, I have universally seen that being a weak nice guy who can't even ask a girl out does not work. "Nice guys do finish last." is one of the dumber things I've read on this website, particularly in response to what I said; you are fitting the "nothing I organically did worked for me so I pretend that PUA aphorisms are always true" role rather perfectly, and your performance "reeks" of narrow minded, quasi misogynistic desperation. Lets be real, when you have to basically pretend that over 50 percent of the human population is somehow different enough to warrant saying things like "No woman would touch the penis of a nice man", alarm bells should be going off. Something is amiss, and if you actually are interested in fostering multidimensional, meaningful relationships with members of the opposite sex, you really ought to revisit the notion that women in general are as simple to predict as a character in Tokimeki Memorial.
its like you read one sentence of my entire post and ignored the rest. it doesn't matter if you believe me or not, the guy can continue to try and win her over by lavishing attention on her, but if you even read any of the horror stories in this thread, my statements are pretty much corroborated. like i said if you can make being weak and supplicating personality work for you, great, but its obvious from everything i see in real life and on this thread that it obviously doesn't. i'm not really sure why you say i'm the desperate one, i'm not the one baking cookies for women who are not my girlfriend in hopes of getting laid. and how is my advising the dude to ask out a girl directly instead of beating around the bush being misogynistic? pretty baseless accusations there. i could go ahead and say you're lashing out in anger because you're one of those nice guys who orbit other dude's girlfriends, always praising her and doing stuff for her, but never getting anywhere.
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Northern Ireland23894 Posts
If women ever actually realised the lengths people go to define themselves by what is attractive to women, I doubt they'd be particularly interested.
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So making cookies is now associated with
"lavishing attention"
"being weak"
"supplicating personality"
Ok that's a new low. Come on. Hyperboles much ?
In before someone says it's a straight path to being dressed as a baby while mommy gets gangbanged by the football team.
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On February 14 2014 07:38 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 07:27 farvacola wrote:On February 14 2014 06:48 fishjie wrote:On February 14 2014 04:04 farvacola wrote:
Statements like "girls like ____" belong in a PUA thread. Like I said, if presented correctly, cookies can even get you laid. Part of the reason this thread is so full of bullshit has to do with nerds being far too concerned with the essential form of things, a form that in most cases simply doesn't exist. In other words, when a dozen awkward nerds present their respective love interests with gifts only to be friendzoned, that doesn't actually mean that presenting gifts is in any way a guaranteed path to the friendzone anymore than it indicates that a dozen nerds simply have no idea how to talk to women in a way that communicates their interest in an alluring fashion. Furthermore, this sort of thinking relies on women acting and behaving in a categorically very narrow manner, a manner which tends to be constructed by love scorned men a priori. This is why saying things like "such and such is guaranteed friendzone" ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy that tricks men already unlucky in love into thinking that women are to be dealt with in only a very specific way when, in reality, they are just like men in regards to their interests, romantic desires, and attractions being incredibly varied, This is a thread about dating, why would PUA like statements be invalid? The only bad thing about PUA is a lot of it relies on canned tricks as a substitution for not having any real personality, ie opening up with some corny line like "HEY DID YOU SEE THAT FIGHT OUTSIDE???". You can spot these type of people at the club, wearing the fedora hat, sitting by themselves, trying to peacock and failing miserably. That's pretty immature, as is the whole obsession of bedding as many women people as possible in one night stands, and reducing them to a number between 1-10 in terms of looks. But there is good advice to be found on there to go along with the bad. Quite frankly, baking someone who is not your girlfriend cookies on valentines day reeks of desperation. Nice guys do finish last. Doesn't mean you have to be an asshole, but you do have to be confident, stand up for yourself when women treat you like shit (the stories at the start of this thread describe women walking all over men, happened to me as well and learned the hard way never to allow that to happen again), and ask girls out on dates and be up front about what you want. PUA is big against supplication, and anecdotally, I've found this to be true. Personally had more success after learning to become more indifferent and aloof in the beginning (dating multiple girls helps with this), as opposed to doing stuff like lavishing gifts and attention (ie baking goods) on girls I barely even know. But yeah, just because something works for me doesn't mean it will work for someone else. However, I have universally seen that being a weak nice guy who can't even ask a girl out does not work. "Nice guys do finish last." is one of the dumber things I've read on this website, particularly in response to what I said; you are fitting the "nothing I organically did worked for me so I pretend that PUA aphorisms are always true" role rather perfectly, and your performance "reeks" of narrow minded, quasi misogynistic desperation. Lets be real, when you have to basically pretend that over 50 percent of the human population is somehow different enough to warrant saying things like "No woman would touch the penis of a nice man", alarm bells should be going off. Something is amiss, and if you actually are interested in fostering multidimensional, meaningful relationships with members of the opposite sex, you really ought to revisit the notion that women in general are as simple to predict as a character in Tokimeki Memorial. its like you read one sentence of my entire post and ignored the rest. it doesn't matter if you believe me or not, the guy can continue to try and win her over by lavishing attention on her, but if you even read any of the horror stories in this thread, my statements are pretty much corroborated. like i said if you can make being weak and supplicating personality work for you, great, but its obvious from everything i see in real life and on this thread that it obviously doesn't. i'm not really sure why you say i'm the desperate one, i'm not the one baking cookies for women who are not my girlfriend in hopes of getting laid. and how is my advising the dude to ask out a girl directly instead of beating around the bush being misogynistic? pretty baseless accusations there. i could go ahead and say you're lashing out in anger because you're one of those nice guys who orbit other dude's girlfriends, always praising her and doing stuff for her, but never getting anywhere.
Your stories are only being corroborated by other dudes who are as awkward (or should I just say "anything but nice"?) around women as you are. It only makes sense that a dose of artificial "confidence" would trick y'all into thinking that being nice and being weak are the same thing, when, in reality, they are only brought together by an individual's inability to communicate effectively alongside a heavy faith in anecdotal, shallow advice that pidgeonholes attributes into terribly stilted categories.
And yes, you got me, I'm only a frigid hermit with a bone to pick here. Woe is me.
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Why does this thread always break down into an argument about PUA shit....
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EPT
