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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On December 03 2013 12:17 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 11:02 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 10:35 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 10:22 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 09:09 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 05:01 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 03:48 Shiragaku wrote:On December 02 2013 21:20 r.Evo wrote:
That data doesn't support any kind of "racism or bigotry in dating", not sure why you're trying to put it into that context in the first place.
IF the average white male has a higher average income
AND women are more likely to respond to someone with higher income
THEN women are more likely to respond to white males
...completely logical, zero racism involved. And you can draw up dozens of these.
While we're at it what exactly is bad about preferring a specific color of skin when it comes to your partner? Zero. Nada. Unless it's paired with a racist motive - which isn't in the slightest what that article is talking about. The articles I posted mentioned little, if anything about income. And if women were more attracted to people with higher income, I am sure we would see much more women of all races trying to to win the hearts of Indian and East Asian men since they tend to achieve a lot academically and financially. And I am not too well read about race relations and dating in Germany, but in America, race plays a really big factor in dating, no matter how "colorblind" people try to be. And if I had a nickel for every time I heard both African American men and non-black men express discontent or fear of black women, I would be pretty damn rich at this point. Also, picking a dating partner based off of the color of their skin is pretty shallow at best. The data on OkCupid demonstrates only a maximum of 8% difference in the reply rate from the lowest responders (Black male - 21% White male 29%) of the same gender. That different isn't very noticeable, and even the same article says that response rates are much more dependent on match percentage. Another argument to be made is whether or not the sample used is a representative sample for the entire population. It isn't unreasonable to say the dating site/app appeals to only certain demographics, which can skew the results one way or the other. Also I don't think it's particularly shallow and especially not racist to have preferences towards one race, but if you are eliminating an entire race for no reason other than skin color that's a different story. It's the equivalent of saying I prefer shorter girls with blonde hair who dress a certain way. It's just one factor in how attracted I am to a person, and just because I like one thing it doesn't mean I rule out everything else. 8% difference on a baseline of 21% is a 38% difference. As in, a white man is 38% more likely to get a response than a black man. I don't know if you are downplaying it out of ignorance or some agenda you have, but it's pretty egregious. While I don't know the standard deviation of the results, people aren't going to be sending out enough messages on a dating site for there to be any difference between 20% or 30% reply rate unless you are literally sending out hundreds of messages. For example a 15% reply rate for a white male who has sent out 50 messages is probably still within 2 standard deviations of the mean. People send out dozens of messages. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of data points. 4 messages instead of 3 messages is appreciable. Doesn't matter anyway because its over the whole group. If a person has a 34% greater chance to get a message that is significant and can be the difference between getting a reply at all and getting no reply. You are thinking about this wrong. Maybe we are arguing different points. I'm saying that for the individual, it doesn't make a difference, but obviously for the group as a whole it does (an 8% difference). If me and you go buy lottery tickets, I buy one and you buy four, you are 400% more likely to win the lottery. So now I have a 1/500m chance to win and you have a 1/125m chance to win, or in realistic terms, neither of us are going to win. The relativistic difference is not relevant when comparing on an individual case basis, unless buying millions of lottery tickets, or in this scenario sending out hundreds of messages. Add to that the fact that if a person is indeed sending out hundreds of messages (and you can assume he isn't getting replies or he wouldn't send out so many messages), it's probably due to a flaw in that person's approach whether it's the profile picture, the profile content, or the message content. No, dude. It's a 34% difference. And it matters at the individual level. It's the difference between sending out 10 messages and getting roughly 2 replies back or roughly 3 replies back (rounded down and up, respectively, obviously, since its only 38%, not 50%). That is a huge difference in potential dates.
A representative sample of 10 white men of send out 100 messages each to 100 random girls, and the responses were 15, 20, 25, 27, 29, 31, 33, 35, 40, 45 giving you a response rate of 30%, or an average of 30 responses. This sample set is congruent with OkCupid's other study here when looking at messaging the most attractive women, assuming attractiveness can also be represented by a bell curve, which produces a standard deviation of roughly 9. That means 68.2% of the population can reasonably expect to receive 21-39 messages in any 100 message sample set, and 95.4% can expect 12-48 messages back.
Note that OkCupid's own data demonstrates that a man's attractiveness is much larger of a variable (45% vs 15% reply rate of most vs least attractive individuals) than race is (29% vs 21%).
Edit: Upon reading the article I linked more closely I don't know if the graph I was looking at here takes into consideration that women apparently have a skewed view of men's attractiveness according to this graph but regardless the concept of my post still applies even if the numbers aren't as close to reality anymore.
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On December 03 2013 12:27 TyrionSC2 wrote:
-- I don't really know her
-- I really like her
-- She might be the one
I miss high school love when you reallyyyyyyy "liked" somebody that you very seldomly talked to and passed notes and it was the most dramatic OMG LOL THIS IS THE ONE CAUSE WE'VE TALKED TWICE.
It's already doomed to fail based on your approach.
Then she has a bf.
lol.
Stringing together bits and pieces from a conversation without context are fun. You have no clue about the reality of what is actually going on because you aren't me, you aren't her, you haven't met either of us and you are basically going off of a simple question that I initially posed (which was: she has a boyfriend but I want to let her know how I feel, is that off limits or no?).
But please, continue to try and shit on me. You seem to enjoy it.
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On December 03 2013 12:56 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 12:17 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 11:02 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 10:35 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 10:22 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 09:09 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 05:01 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 03:48 Shiragaku wrote:On December 02 2013 21:20 r.Evo wrote:
That data doesn't support any kind of "racism or bigotry in dating", not sure why you're trying to put it into that context in the first place.
IF the average white male has a higher average income
AND women are more likely to respond to someone with higher income
THEN women are more likely to respond to white males
...completely logical, zero racism involved. And you can draw up dozens of these.
While we're at it what exactly is bad about preferring a specific color of skin when it comes to your partner? Zero. Nada. Unless it's paired with a racist motive - which isn't in the slightest what that article is talking about. The articles I posted mentioned little, if anything about income. And if women were more attracted to people with higher income, I am sure we would see much more women of all races trying to to win the hearts of Indian and East Asian men since they tend to achieve a lot academically and financially. And I am not too well read about race relations and dating in Germany, but in America, race plays a really big factor in dating, no matter how "colorblind" people try to be. And if I had a nickel for every time I heard both African American men and non-black men express discontent or fear of black women, I would be pretty damn rich at this point. Also, picking a dating partner based off of the color of their skin is pretty shallow at best. The data on OkCupid demonstrates only a maximum of 8% difference in the reply rate from the lowest responders (Black male - 21% White male 29%) of the same gender. That different isn't very noticeable, and even the same article says that response rates are much more dependent on match percentage. Another argument to be made is whether or not the sample used is a representative sample for the entire population. It isn't unreasonable to say the dating site/app appeals to only certain demographics, which can skew the results one way or the other. Also I don't think it's particularly shallow and especially not racist to have preferences towards one race, but if you are eliminating an entire race for no reason other than skin color that's a different story. It's the equivalent of saying I prefer shorter girls with blonde hair who dress a certain way. It's just one factor in how attracted I am to a person, and just because I like one thing it doesn't mean I rule out everything else. 8% difference on a baseline of 21% is a 38% difference. As in, a white man is 38% more likely to get a response than a black man. I don't know if you are downplaying it out of ignorance or some agenda you have, but it's pretty egregious. While I don't know the standard deviation of the results, people aren't going to be sending out enough messages on a dating site for there to be any difference between 20% or 30% reply rate unless you are literally sending out hundreds of messages. For example a 15% reply rate for a white male who has sent out 50 messages is probably still within 2 standard deviations of the mean. People send out dozens of messages. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of data points. 4 messages instead of 3 messages is appreciable. Doesn't matter anyway because its over the whole group. If a person has a 34% greater chance to get a message that is significant and can be the difference between getting a reply at all and getting no reply. You are thinking about this wrong. Maybe we are arguing different points. I'm saying that for the individual, it doesn't make a difference, but obviously for the group as a whole it does (an 8% difference). If me and you go buy lottery tickets, I buy one and you buy four, you are 400% more likely to win the lottery. So now I have a 1/500m chance to win and you have a 1/125m chance to win, or in realistic terms, neither of us are going to win. The relativistic difference is not relevant when comparing on an individual case basis, unless buying millions of lottery tickets, or in this scenario sending out hundreds of messages. Add to that the fact that if a person is indeed sending out hundreds of messages (and you can assume he isn't getting replies or he wouldn't send out so many messages), it's probably due to a flaw in that person's approach whether it's the profile picture, the profile content, or the message content. No, dude. It's a 34% difference. And it matters at the individual level. It's the difference between sending out 10 messages and getting roughly 2 replies back or roughly 3 replies back (rounded down and up, respectively, obviously, since its only 38%, not 50%). That is a huge difference in potential dates. A representative sample of 10 white men of send out 100 messages each to 100 random girls, and the responses were 15, 20, 25, 27, 29, 31, 33, 35, 40, 45 giving you a response rate of 30%, or an average of 30 responses. This sample set is congruent with OkCupid's other study here when looking at messaging the most attractive women, assuming attractiveness can also be represented by a bell curve, which produces a standard deviation of roughly 9. That means 68.2% of the population can reasonably expect to receive 21-39 messages in any 100 message sample set, and 95.4% can expect 12-48 messages back. Note that OkCupid's own data demonstrates that a man's attractiveness is much larger of a variable (45% vs 15% reply rate of most vs least attractive individuals) than race is (29% vs 21%). Edit: Upon reading the article I linked more closely I don't know if the graph I was looking at here takes into consideration that women apparently have a skewed view of men's attractiveness according to this graph but regardless the concept of my post still applies even if the numbers aren't as close to reality anymore.
So you are arguing that attractive black men can get more messages than an unattractive white man? Isn't that obvious? Ignoring latent racism affecting perceived attractiveness, the point is that for an average black man and an average white man, the difference in messages received is significant. I didn't check your numbers, but according to you approximately one standard deviation's difference. There's obviously variability. Do you not think that one standard deviation is significant?
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On December 03 2013 13:25 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 12:56 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 12:17 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 11:02 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 10:35 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 10:22 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 09:09 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 05:01 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 03:48 Shiragaku wrote:On December 02 2013 21:20 r.Evo wrote:
That data doesn't support any kind of "racism or bigotry in dating", not sure why you're trying to put it into that context in the first place.
IF the average white male has a higher average income
AND women are more likely to respond to someone with higher income
THEN women are more likely to respond to white males
...completely logical, zero racism involved. And you can draw up dozens of these.
While we're at it what exactly is bad about preferring a specific color of skin when it comes to your partner? Zero. Nada. Unless it's paired with a racist motive - which isn't in the slightest what that article is talking about. The articles I posted mentioned little, if anything about income. And if women were more attracted to people with higher income, I am sure we would see much more women of all races trying to to win the hearts of Indian and East Asian men since they tend to achieve a lot academically and financially. And I am not too well read about race relations and dating in Germany, but in America, race plays a really big factor in dating, no matter how "colorblind" people try to be. And if I had a nickel for every time I heard both African American men and non-black men express discontent or fear of black women, I would be pretty damn rich at this point. Also, picking a dating partner based off of the color of their skin is pretty shallow at best. The data on OkCupid demonstrates only a maximum of 8% difference in the reply rate from the lowest responders (Black male - 21% White male 29%) of the same gender. That different isn't very noticeable, and even the same article says that response rates are much more dependent on match percentage. Another argument to be made is whether or not the sample used is a representative sample for the entire population. It isn't unreasonable to say the dating site/app appeals to only certain demographics, which can skew the results one way or the other. Also I don't think it's particularly shallow and especially not racist to have preferences towards one race, but if you are eliminating an entire race for no reason other than skin color that's a different story. It's the equivalent of saying I prefer shorter girls with blonde hair who dress a certain way. It's just one factor in how attracted I am to a person, and just because I like one thing it doesn't mean I rule out everything else. 8% difference on a baseline of 21% is a 38% difference. As in, a white man is 38% more likely to get a response than a black man. I don't know if you are downplaying it out of ignorance or some agenda you have, but it's pretty egregious. While I don't know the standard deviation of the results, people aren't going to be sending out enough messages on a dating site for there to be any difference between 20% or 30% reply rate unless you are literally sending out hundreds of messages. For example a 15% reply rate for a white male who has sent out 50 messages is probably still within 2 standard deviations of the mean. People send out dozens of messages. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of data points. 4 messages instead of 3 messages is appreciable. Doesn't matter anyway because its over the whole group. If a person has a 34% greater chance to get a message that is significant and can be the difference between getting a reply at all and getting no reply. You are thinking about this wrong. Maybe we are arguing different points. I'm saying that for the individual, it doesn't make a difference, but obviously for the group as a whole it does (an 8% difference). If me and you go buy lottery tickets, I buy one and you buy four, you are 400% more likely to win the lottery. So now I have a 1/500m chance to win and you have a 1/125m chance to win, or in realistic terms, neither of us are going to win. The relativistic difference is not relevant when comparing on an individual case basis, unless buying millions of lottery tickets, or in this scenario sending out hundreds of messages. Add to that the fact that if a person is indeed sending out hundreds of messages (and you can assume he isn't getting replies or he wouldn't send out so many messages), it's probably due to a flaw in that person's approach whether it's the profile picture, the profile content, or the message content. No, dude. It's a 34% difference. And it matters at the individual level. It's the difference between sending out 10 messages and getting roughly 2 replies back or roughly 3 replies back (rounded down and up, respectively, obviously, since its only 38%, not 50%). That is a huge difference in potential dates. A representative sample of 10 white men of send out 100 messages each to 100 random girls, and the responses were 15, 20, 25, 27, 29, 31, 33, 35, 40, 45 giving you a response rate of 30%, or an average of 30 responses. This sample set is congruent with OkCupid's other study here when looking at messaging the most attractive women, assuming attractiveness can also be represented by a bell curve, which produces a standard deviation of roughly 9. That means 68.2% of the population can reasonably expect to receive 21-39 messages in any 100 message sample set, and 95.4% can expect 12-48 messages back. Note that OkCupid's own data demonstrates that a man's attractiveness is much larger of a variable (45% vs 15% reply rate of most vs least attractive individuals) than race is (29% vs 21%). Edit: Upon reading the article I linked more closely I don't know if the graph I was looking at here takes into consideration that women apparently have a skewed view of men's attractiveness according to this graph but regardless the concept of my post still applies even if the numbers aren't as close to reality anymore. So you are arguing that attractive black men can get more messages than an unattractive white man? Isn't that obvious? Ignoring latent racism affecting perceived attractiveness, the point is that for an average black man and an average white man, the difference in messages received is significant. I didn't check your numbers, but according to you approximately one standard deviation's difference. There's obviously variability. Do you not think that one standard deviation is significant?
I think that since the population lies within one standard deviation, it is more relevant to look at individual cases than either race as a group. You can't change your race but you can dress better, work out, and become more socially competent, and the advantages you will gain through such choices far outweigh whatever disadvantages were given to you due to your skin color.
My argument is that race is less important than personal choices such as above, do you disagree with that statement?
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On December 03 2013 13:02 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 12:27 TyrionSC2 wrote:
-- I don't really know her
-- I really like her
-- She might be the one
I miss high school love when you reallyyyyyyy "liked" somebody that you very seldomly talked to and passed notes and it was the most dramatic OMG LOL THIS IS THE ONE CAUSE WE'VE TALKED TWICE.
It's already doomed to fail based on your approach.
Then she has a bf.
lol. Stringing together bits and pieces from a conversation without context are fun. You have no clue about the reality of what is actually going on because you aren't me, you aren't her, you haven't met either of us and you are basically going off of a simple question that I initially posed (which was: she has a boyfriend but I want to let her know how I feel, is that off limits or no?). But please, continue to try and shit on me. You seem to enjoy it.
Yes, it's fucking off limits. Next question.
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On December 03 2013 13:56 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 13:25 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 12:56 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 12:17 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 11:02 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 10:35 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 10:22 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 09:09 IgnE wrote:On December 03 2013 05:01 Najda wrote:On December 03 2013 03:48 Shiragaku wrote:
[quote]
The articles I posted mentioned little, if anything about income. And if women were more attracted to people with higher income, I am sure we would see much more women of all races trying to to win the hearts of Indian and East Asian men since they tend to achieve a lot academically and financially.
And I am not too well read about race relations and dating in Germany, but in America, race plays a really big factor in dating, no matter how "colorblind" people try to be. And if I had a nickel for every time I heard both African American men and non-black men express discontent or fear of black women, I would be pretty damn rich at this point.
Also, picking a dating partner based off of the color of their skin is pretty shallow at best. The data on OkCupid demonstrates only a maximum of 8% difference in the reply rate from the lowest responders (Black male - 21% White male 29%) of the same gender. That different isn't very noticeable, and even the same article says that response rates are much more dependent on match percentage. Another argument to be made is whether or not the sample used is a representative sample for the entire population. It isn't unreasonable to say the dating site/app appeals to only certain demographics, which can skew the results one way or the other. Also I don't think it's particularly shallow and especially not racist to have preferences towards one race, but if you are eliminating an entire race for no reason other than skin color that's a different story. It's the equivalent of saying I prefer shorter girls with blonde hair who dress a certain way. It's just one factor in how attracted I am to a person, and just because I like one thing it doesn't mean I rule out everything else. 8% difference on a baseline of 21% is a 38% difference. As in, a white man is 38% more likely to get a response than a black man. I don't know if you are downplaying it out of ignorance or some agenda you have, but it's pretty egregious. While I don't know the standard deviation of the results, people aren't going to be sending out enough messages on a dating site for there to be any difference between 20% or 30% reply rate unless you are literally sending out hundreds of messages. For example a 15% reply rate for a white male who has sent out 50 messages is probably still within 2 standard deviations of the mean. People send out dozens of messages. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of data points. 4 messages instead of 3 messages is appreciable. Doesn't matter anyway because its over the whole group. If a person has a 34% greater chance to get a message that is significant and can be the difference between getting a reply at all and getting no reply. You are thinking about this wrong. Maybe we are arguing different points. I'm saying that for the individual, it doesn't make a difference, but obviously for the group as a whole it does (an 8% difference). If me and you go buy lottery tickets, I buy one and you buy four, you are 400% more likely to win the lottery. So now I have a 1/500m chance to win and you have a 1/125m chance to win, or in realistic terms, neither of us are going to win. The relativistic difference is not relevant when comparing on an individual case basis, unless buying millions of lottery tickets, or in this scenario sending out hundreds of messages. Add to that the fact that if a person is indeed sending out hundreds of messages (and you can assume he isn't getting replies or he wouldn't send out so many messages), it's probably due to a flaw in that person's approach whether it's the profile picture, the profile content, or the message content. No, dude. It's a 34% difference. And it matters at the individual level. It's the difference between sending out 10 messages and getting roughly 2 replies back or roughly 3 replies back (rounded down and up, respectively, obviously, since its only 38%, not 50%). That is a huge difference in potential dates. A representative sample of 10 white men of send out 100 messages each to 100 random girls, and the responses were 15, 20, 25, 27, 29, 31, 33, 35, 40, 45 giving you a response rate of 30%, or an average of 30 responses. This sample set is congruent with OkCupid's other study here when looking at messaging the most attractive women, assuming attractiveness can also be represented by a bell curve, which produces a standard deviation of roughly 9. That means 68.2% of the population can reasonably expect to receive 21-39 messages in any 100 message sample set, and 95.4% can expect 12-48 messages back. Note that OkCupid's own data demonstrates that a man's attractiveness is much larger of a variable (45% vs 15% reply rate of most vs least attractive individuals) than race is (29% vs 21%). Edit: Upon reading the article I linked more closely I don't know if the graph I was looking at here takes into consideration that women apparently have a skewed view of men's attractiveness according to this graph but regardless the concept of my post still applies even if the numbers aren't as close to reality anymore. So you are arguing that attractive black men can get more messages than an unattractive white man? Isn't that obvious? Ignoring latent racism affecting perceived attractiveness, the point is that for an average black man and an average white man, the difference in messages received is significant. I didn't check your numbers, but according to you approximately one standard deviation's difference. There's obviously variability. Do you not think that one standard deviation is significant? I think that since the population lies within one standard deviation, it is more relevant to look at individual cases than either race as a group. You can't change your race but you can dress better, work out, and become more socially competent, and the advantages you will gain through such choices far outweigh whatever disadvantages were given to you due to your skin color. My argument is that race is less important than personal choices such as above, do you disagree with that statement?
No I don't disagree with that statement. But a 38% difference across races is huge. An individual at-bat is different for every hitter, but you can't tell me that hey, a .210 batter, a .280 batter, its all a wash. Why do baseball teams bother to pay for such marginal differences, if either batter can hit a home run on some pitch?
You honestly sound somewhat absurd in your attempt to find a safe position. Race is something you can't change, and I think it's fair to assume that an average black male and an average white male have put relatively the same amount of effort in to their dress, body, and social competence (factors you think significantly outweigh race). And yet, the average white male has a 38% better batting average.
Does this mean that the average black male can't improve himself? No. Does this mean that race is even the most important factor? No. Is this a significant difference that affects black men as a class? Yes.
I'm not arguing that race is destiny. I'm not even arguing that race is the most important factor. But it does seem a little odd to me that you are so quick to downplay race's role in online dating. If we replaced race in this instance with something less morally loaded, like haircut, with the same statistics, I get the feeling that you would say something like, "damn who knew a haircut could matter so much. Let this be a lesson to all of you to change your haircut." It's not like racism goes away just because you want to focus on black men "getting better bodies."
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Are we really arguing about the fact that 2 individuals in 2 different group can be far apart from their respective group average so that they aren't in the same order than said averages, due to other factors ?
Really ?
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Guys gtfo and take it to pms. THis thread needs more dating stories.
So my current predicament is that i am now single. With very little chance to meet girls in the next month due to finals and vacation. Met this girl a week ago, and she wanted a one night stand but turned her down, cause im not really into that. A little off putting, my friend said the more girls you are intimate with the harder it is to make an emotional connection with one.
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On December 03 2013 17:24 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
Guys gtfo and take it to pms. THis thread needs more dating stories.
So my current predicament is that i am now single. With very little chance to meet girls in the next month due to finals and vacation. Met this girl a week ago, and she wanted a one night stand but turned her down, cause im not really into that. A little off putting, my friend said the more girls you are intimate with the harder it is to make an emotional connection with one.
Good luck for your exams then I guess  .
What your friend speaks about happens only if you sleep around for an extended period of time I'd say. It's not like a single one night stand would suddenly make you cold. But if you're not into it anyway then that's obviously the right decision.
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the problem with casual sex is you have to interact with boring people long enough to fuck them
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On December 03 2013 17:24 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
Guys gtfo and take it to pms. THis thread needs more dating stories.
So my current predicament is that i am now single. With very little chance to meet girls in the next month due to finals and vacation. Met this girl a week ago, and she wanted a one night stand but turned her down, cause im not really into that. A little off putting, my friend said the more girls you are intimate with the harder it is to make an emotional connection with one.
I'm the other way around lol (and I hate it) I have sex with 1 girl and she's the love of my life...
at least for 2 weeks, then I move on.
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On December 03 2013 13:02 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 12:27 TyrionSC2 wrote:
-- I don't really know her
-- I really like her
-- She might be the one
I miss high school love when you reallyyyyyyy "liked" somebody that you very seldomly talked to and passed notes and it was the most dramatic OMG LOL THIS IS THE ONE CAUSE WE'VE TALKED TWICE.
It's already doomed to fail based on your approach.
Then she has a bf.
lol. Stringing together bits and pieces from a conversation without context are fun. You have no clue about the reality of what is actually going on because you aren't me, you aren't her, you haven't met either of us and you are basically going off of a simple question that I initially posed (which was: she has a boyfriend but I want to let her know how I feel, is that off limits or no?). But please, continue to try and shit on me. You seem to enjoy it.
You should take it more personally next time. . .
Having seen this shit more than enough times from my own personal experience and friends, yes I do know your situation. It's high school dating at it's finest.
You should probably stop before you ruin this "friendship" completely, or at the very least make it very awkward. When she finds out, which she will (girls aren't retarded and reading crushed is kinda easy), if she tells her boyfriend depending on who he is as a person he might be a dick and want to fight you too. When a woman is in a committed relationship the last thing you should do, out of respect for her and yourself so you don't come off as desperate is pressure girls. That's a guaranteed disaster.
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Rabiddeer: I'm in pretty much the exact same situation as you. Started talking to this girl mid semester, she mentioned in passing that she had a bf. We only talked in class, no romantic advances or flirting. Today was the final class period before exams so I knew I had to do something to keep it alive. I talked to her after class and she offered to exchange numbers but I just gave her mine. Yeah I have a crush on her but If it doesn't lead to anything I don't mind because I could honestly use more friends.
So my advice to you is to go for it, see if she wants to study together for the final or something. If you're friends with her that opportunity to be more could be there someday. This way you can keep other options open. Don't tell her how you feel because that could ruins things. Keep us updated.
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Man, I just hope we can all find the right girl (guy) and be happy...life's a complicated mess.
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On November 29 2013 01:44 Mentalizor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 13:11 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 10:47 IgnE wrote:On November 28 2013 04:26 Mentalizor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 03:04 r.Evo wrote:On November 27 2013 22:39 Mentalizor wrote:Trainwreck-Mentalizor is back in need of a tip or two: The girl:+ Show Spoiler +So a friend of mine got a new girlfriend (yay  !) However, he celebrated by getting drunk and making out with another girl... One week later he ends up kissing the same girl again - we'll call her... Francine. Asks me if I want to come visit the bar at his university - mostly to keep her away/keep him from doing stupid shit, when he's drunk. I end up talking to her. She's nice. We add eachother on facebook and I get her number. We text furiously (3000+ texts in ~2months). Start to meet up when we're drunk (nothing happens - strictly friendly). Starts to hang out sober aswell. Two weeks ago she invites me to a party, where we end up kissing --> take a taxi to my place --> agree we're too drunk for sex to even make sence, but do all sort of weird shit instead. Fast forward one weekend, I'm at another party right next to her - with the friend I mentioned at the very start. I tell her I'm sleeping at her place (confidence is my bitch, son!), but she's already on her way to bed. I tell her to join the party then - really want to see her. She shows up. We dance and I try to kiss her again. She tells me "not tonight, please don't take it personally"... So ofc I take it personally... Drunk dial her at 5am - "What's wrong with you? Why would you say no?"... She tells me, she's not sure about us. Last weekend ment a lot and we're most definately not JUST friends anymore. But if we're anymore, we shouldn't rush anything. So... I give her time... Thursday (5 days later), I'm at a party. Some girl from my class is seriously hitting on me. I go drunk text Francise about our situation - 'cuz if we're not going to be a thing, I'd might aswell screw the girl at the party. Francine gets upset. We're not talking for 2 days. So I end up texting her, we go out - everything seems cool. We talk about the situation and she's still all "we COULD become a thing, but let's give it time". She's funny, she's intelligent, she's beautiful - and what is somewhat scary: She's suffering from depression - which I am too. I've been in a relationship 7+years with a girl, who never understood how I felt. I feel like a shit friend towards my man, who introduced me to her in order to "keep her away" from him... And next thing you know, I want to date her.
She's indecisive and is taking forever to make up her mind. She's dropping small hints, but I'm too afraid to make a move on it. So apparently we have the potential to become "a thing". And I'd like that... But I'm afraid she's just stalling to tell me 'no' in the end anyway? This weekend I'm going to two different parties. One with the girl from my own university, who hit aggresively on me earlier - and another party with a girl, that I've been with every single time, we've been drunk together. I feel like an idiot if I say no to those girls - just for Francine to potentially tell me 'no' later? If you want to have something with Mrs Francine you need to punch through her wall of bullshit. "We *could* become a thing, but let's give it time" is complete bullshit. She knows it's bullshit. But she also thinks it's her best possible option, especially since you don't seem to know it's bullshit. Why is it bullshit? She knows she's into you. She knows you're into her. You know the same things the other way around. Like every single person on this planet she's afraid. Maybe, just mabye, she's a little more afraid than your average gal because of her history. Now, for you the why and how are completely irrelevant. Maybe you'll figure it out eventually or she'll tell you, maybe not. What it means right now is that you need to recognize what's going on: She's afraid of potentially giving you (emotional) control over the situation if she just straight up says "yes". Frame/Mindset: You know you're into each other. You understand that she's afraid of committing to something she might regret in the future and you believe life is too short to chase "maybes". That's the kind of attitude you need in dealing with her. Basically assume that the only reasons for her hesitation have nothing to do with you or what's going on between you. It's actually not personal. Worst possible case: Honest bomb (among the lines "I understand you're afraid of taking this any further because you might get hurt and I'm afraid that you being afraid might hurt me if I stick around too long." aka "look babe, we're all scared let's be scared together"). Pretty sure you'll see if it clicks with her, if it does escalate as usual. DON'T: Keep the current "uh I'm not so sure" up. While you want the ball of defining your relationship in her court (good) you want the question of having one in the first place in yours. To put it bluntly it's your job to make sure you're into each other and it's her job to define where exactly that's gonna lead. Do your job a bit better and then it's her turn. Keep in mind that the recommendations above are deep, deep rapport building. What this means in practice is that you need to make sure that there's enough sexual attraction between you two to pull those kind of cards. I'm only recommending this in the first place because that department looks alright. Kind of. Actual sex and/or make-outs before this kind of thing would be beneficial but welp, what can you do. PS: Stop drinking so much. Talk to your buddy about whether she's up for grabs if you value his friendship. Figure out a way to meet with her at a place where you can escalate physically before starting anything with new girls. If she leaves you unsure and that leads to you screwing with other girls it must mean that her being cautious was the correct behavior since apparently you weren't into her in the first place. That this very behavior is making you want to screw other girls isn't a possibility she has genuinely considered. PPS: If this results in an actual relationship you guys both will need lots of work. Big topic would be "Power dynamics in relationships", I'm pretty sure that you'll both try and find ways to unconsciously screw each other. =P Woah thanks What a well-written reply!... I'm not sure about her bullshit. You're most likely right, but punching through her wall might just scare her. If I actually go up to her and say "I like you. You like me. Let's give it a chance!", I wouldn't expect her to deny anything. I'd expect her to push me away... The whole "less is more" thing is really true with this one. I think the harder I try the less it works on her. We've agreed to see eachother saturday. Haven't agreed on where or what... I consider inviting her to my place. I have a projector for a cinema-experience in my living room... Then with some wine and maybe some massage, I could imagine things could take off... Doesn't it sound too clichée though?? (Plus, I'm having a party in my appartment friday - and with my depression I've no way of knowing if I can manage to clean up before she'd come saturday). And I think you're right about her acting cautious. And she most likely doesn't realize what it triggers in me. Actually saying no to other attractive girls isn't exactly fun (nor worth it) if this doesn't pay off. But I can't tell her to stop being so cautious... Again, that would just push her away. I really don't know what to do now My take on it is that you were friendzoned a long time ago. She likes your friend still. You both got drunk at a party and she was just like fuck it, let's do it, somewhat out of spite against your friend. Now she regrets doing that because it may have harmed her chances with your friend. Her leading you on is just her way of keeping you around until she gets a definitive no from your friend. He escalated from being buddies. Since that implies sexual attraction he's doing something right, might as well capitalize on that and push it further. Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 04:26 Mentalizor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 03:04 r.Evo wrote:On November 27 2013 22:39 Mentalizor wrote:Trainwreck-Mentalizor is back in need of a tip or two: The girl:+ Show Spoiler +So a friend of mine got a new girlfriend (yay !) However, he celebrated by getting drunk and making out with another girl... One week later he ends up kissing the same girl again - we'll call her... Francine. Asks me if I want to come visit the bar at his university - mostly to keep her away/keep him from doing stupid shit, when he's drunk. I end up talking to her. She's nice. We add eachother on facebook and I get her number. We text furiously (3000+ texts in ~2months). Start to meet up when we're drunk (nothing happens - strictly friendly). Starts to hang out sober aswell. Two weeks ago she invites me to a party, where we end up kissing --> take a taxi to my place --> agree we're too drunk for sex to even make sence, but do all sort of weird shit instead. Fast forward one weekend, I'm at another party right next to her - with the friend I mentioned at the very start. I tell her I'm sleeping at her place (confidence is my bitch, son!), but she's already on her way to bed. I tell her to join the party then - really want to see her. She shows up. We dance and I try to kiss her again. She tells me "not tonight, please don't take it personally"... So ofc I take it personally... Drunk dial her at 5am - "What's wrong with you? Why would you say no?"... She tells me, she's not sure about us. Last weekend ment a lot and we're most definately not JUST friends anymore. But if we're anymore, we shouldn't rush anything. So... I give her time... Thursday (5 days later), I'm at a party. Some girl from my class is seriously hitting on me. I go drunk text Francise about our situation - 'cuz if we're not going to be a thing, I'd might aswell screw the girl at the party. Francine gets upset. We're not talking for 2 days. So I end up texting her, we go out - everything seems cool. We talk about the situation and she's still all "we COULD become a thing, but let's give it time". She's funny, she's intelligent, she's beautiful - and what is somewhat scary: She's suffering from depression - which I am too. I've been in a relationship 7+years with a girl, who never understood how I felt. I feel like a shit friend towards my man, who introduced me to her in order to "keep her away" from him... And next thing you know, I want to date her.
She's indecisive and is taking forever to make up her mind. She's dropping small hints, but I'm too afraid to make a move on it. So apparently we have the potential to become "a thing". And I'd like that... But I'm afraid she's just stalling to tell me 'no' in the end anyway? This weekend I'm going to two different parties. One with the girl from my own university, who hit aggresively on me earlier - and another party with a girl, that I've been with every single time, we've been drunk together. I feel like an idiot if I say no to those girls - just for Francine to potentially tell me 'no' later? If you want to have something with Mrs Francine you need to punch through her wall of bullshit. "We *could* become a thing, but let's give it time" is complete bullshit. She knows it's bullshit. But she also thinks it's her best possible option, especially since you don't seem to know it's bullshit. Why is it bullshit? She knows she's into you. She knows you're into her. You know the same things the other way around. Like every single person on this planet she's afraid. Maybe, just mabye, she's a little more afraid than your average gal because of her history. Now, for you the why and how are completely irrelevant. Maybe you'll figure it out eventually or she'll tell you, maybe not. What it means right now is that you need to recognize what's going on: She's afraid of potentially giving you (emotional) control over the situation if she just straight up says "yes". Frame/Mindset: You know you're into each other. You understand that she's afraid of committing to something she might regret in the future and you believe life is too short to chase "maybes". That's the kind of attitude you need in dealing with her. Basically assume that the only reasons for her hesitation have nothing to do with you or what's going on between you. It's actually not personal. Worst possible case: Honest bomb (among the lines "I understand you're afraid of taking this any further because you might get hurt and I'm afraid that you being afraid might hurt me if I stick around too long." aka "look babe, we're all scared let's be scared together"). Pretty sure you'll see if it clicks with her, if it does escalate as usual. DON'T: Keep the current "uh I'm not so sure" up. While you want the ball of defining your relationship in her court (good) you want the question of having one in the first place in yours. To put it bluntly it's your job to make sure you're into each other and it's her job to define where exactly that's gonna lead. Do your job a bit better and then it's her turn. Keep in mind that the recommendations above are deep, deep rapport building. What this means in practice is that you need to make sure that there's enough sexual attraction between you two to pull those kind of cards. I'm only recommending this in the first place because that department looks alright. Kind of. Actual sex and/or make-outs before this kind of thing would be beneficial but welp, what can you do. PS: Stop drinking so much. Talk to your buddy about whether she's up for grabs if you value his friendship. Figure out a way to meet with her at a place where you can escalate physically before starting anything with new girls. If she leaves you unsure and that leads to you screwing with other girls it must mean that her being cautious was the correct behavior since apparently you weren't into her in the first place. That this very behavior is making you want to screw other girls isn't a possibility she has genuinely considered. PPS: If this results in an actual relationship you guys both will need lots of work. Big topic would be "Power dynamics in relationships", I'm pretty sure that you'll both try and find ways to unconsciously screw each other. =P Woah thanks What a well-written reply!... I'm not sure about her bullshit. You're most likely right, but punching through her wall might just scare her. If I actually go up to her and say "I like you. You like me. Let's give it a chance!", I wouldn't expect her to deny anything. I'd expect her to push me away... The whole "less is more" thing is really true with this one. I think the harder I try the less it works on her. We've agreed to see eachother saturday. Haven't agreed on where or what... I consider inviting her to my place. I have a projector for a cinema-experience in my living room... Then with some wine and maybe some massage, I could imagine things could take off... Doesn't it sound too clichée though?? (Plus, I'm having a party in my appartment friday - and with my depression I've no way of knowing if I can manage to clean up before she'd come saturday). And I think you're right about her acting cautious. And she most likely doesn't realize what it triggers in me. Actually saying no to other attractive girls isn't exactly fun (nor worth it) if this doesn't pay off. But I can't tell her to stop being so cautious... Again, that would just push her away. I really don't know what to do now What I mean by "punching through her wall" is being honest about it. a) "I like you. You like me. Let's give it a chance!" b) "I like you. You like me. I understand that you're afraid of being hurt and all that does is make me afraid of being hurt. Can we just stop all that bullshit please?" IF reaction_positive -> kiss. You're not there to tell her to stop being cautious. You're not there to ask for her emotional dedication to you. You're there to reassert that if she wants a place in your life (which includes being jealous if you talk about other conquests), cool - but she has to fill that role or not. Sure you like her - but that's not enough if she's clearly (yes, interpret every maybe = no in front of her and as yes in front of yourself) is not into you. If you find a way to escalate instead (which movie date sounds like as usual), do that. Again, it's her job to define your actual relationship but your job to make sure that you establish borders. What this means in practice is that you have to step in when what she says ("Uhh... I'm not so sure about whether we could become a thing!") isn't congruent with what she does ("wtf how can you think about screwing other girls?!"). Whenever this happens and your initial chain of thought is equivalent to "?????????" tell her that you aren't a couple - any kind of reaction that is trying to go against that should mean more escalation. Repeat until well cooked. Can I please just husband you ? One thing I haven't made clear obviously: When I spoke to her about us being a thing - because if we weren't I could do the university girl, she wasn't "How can you think about screwing others?!?!"... She was more like "If we were to become a thing, I'd need us to be based on love and respect, which that text clearly didn't show". And telling her, she doesn't act according to what she's saying doesn't always seem like a smart move with girls, you know ? However, I like your way of wording the "bullshit-breaker". Well... I'll most likely be off TL a few days now. Might update sunday or monday. Thanks for your advice! On November 28 2013 10:47 IgnE wrote:
My take on it is that you were friendzoned a long time ago. She likes your friend still. You both got drunk at a party and she was just like fuck it, let's do it, somewhat out of spite against your friend. Now she regrets doing that because it may have harmed her chances with your friend. Her leading you on is just her way of keeping you around until she gets a definitive no from your friend.
He's got a girlfriend and actually told her no a long time ago. They hardly ever talk. I talk to her a LOT more than they talk to each other. They've actually become somewhat awkward. So while I can imagine this whole scenario go thousands of ways - I can't really imagine her crushing on him... at all... Plus... The whole friendzone thing is utter bullshit... If you'd actually want a girl for sex/relationship and not friendship just act on it and take the chance. Just a few months ago I had sex with my best friend through 8 years (nothing had happened before). So I don't really bite into the whole friend-zone-thing.
So I've got a follow-up to this girl/story.
Saturday night she came to visit me We talk for a while and I ofter to open a bottle of wine or maybe mix her a drink, but she tells me she'd prefer to not drink tonight. So with her (and me) being sober - and me knowing she's sober, nothing really happens. She came around 8 o'clock and around 2:30 AM she says, she's got a bit of a headache and should probably head on home... Unless she could just sleep at my place. So ofc we crawl into bed together. We simply talk and laugh for a few hours until I man up and kiss her. She kissed me back! Sober!
........however... We only ended up kissing for a few minutes and then we just spooned and fell asleep. Next morning we both acted like nothing (still being super friendly and all - but not kissing - and not mentioning kissing at all). I've talked to a few female friends, who actually somewhat agree, that I shouldn't mention it to her. Their guess is, that we're currently in a zone, where things can happen if it feels right - but I most likely shouldn't try to force anything.
Thoughts from TL ?
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On December 04 2013 00:44 Mentalizor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 01:44 Mentalizor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 13:11 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 10:47 IgnE wrote:On November 28 2013 04:26 Mentalizor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 03:04 r.Evo wrote:On November 27 2013 22:39 Mentalizor wrote:Trainwreck-Mentalizor is back in need of a tip or two: The girl:+ Show Spoiler +So a friend of mine got a new girlfriend (yay !) However, he celebrated by getting drunk and making out with another girl... One week later he ends up kissing the same girl again - we'll call her... Francine. Asks me if I want to come visit the bar at his university - mostly to keep her away/keep him from doing stupid shit, when he's drunk. I end up talking to her. She's nice. We add eachother on facebook and I get her number. We text furiously (3000+ texts in ~2months). Start to meet up when we're drunk (nothing happens - strictly friendly). Starts to hang out sober aswell. Two weeks ago she invites me to a party, where we end up kissing --> take a taxi to my place --> agree we're too drunk for sex to even make sence, but do all sort of weird shit instead. Fast forward one weekend, I'm at another party right next to her - with the friend I mentioned at the very start. I tell her I'm sleeping at her place (confidence is my bitch, son!), but she's already on her way to bed. I tell her to join the party then - really want to see her. She shows up. We dance and I try to kiss her again. She tells me "not tonight, please don't take it personally"... So ofc I take it personally... Drunk dial her at 5am - "What's wrong with you? Why would you say no?"... She tells me, she's not sure about us. Last weekend ment a lot and we're most definately not JUST friends anymore. But if we're anymore, we shouldn't rush anything. So... I give her time... Thursday (5 days later), I'm at a party. Some girl from my class is seriously hitting on me. I go drunk text Francise about our situation - 'cuz if we're not going to be a thing, I'd might aswell screw the girl at the party. Francine gets upset. We're not talking for 2 days. So I end up texting her, we go out - everything seems cool. We talk about the situation and she's still all "we COULD become a thing, but let's give it time". She's funny, she's intelligent, she's beautiful - and what is somewhat scary: She's suffering from depression - which I am too. I've been in a relationship 7+years with a girl, who never understood how I felt. I feel like a shit friend towards my man, who introduced me to her in order to "keep her away" from him... And next thing you know, I want to date her.
She's indecisive and is taking forever to make up her mind. She's dropping small hints, but I'm too afraid to make a move on it. So apparently we have the potential to become "a thing". And I'd like that... But I'm afraid she's just stalling to tell me 'no' in the end anyway? This weekend I'm going to two different parties. One with the girl from my own university, who hit aggresively on me earlier - and another party with a girl, that I've been with every single time, we've been drunk together. I feel like an idiot if I say no to those girls - just for Francine to potentially tell me 'no' later? If you want to have something with Mrs Francine you need to punch through her wall of bullshit. "We *could* become a thing, but let's give it time" is complete bullshit. She knows it's bullshit. But she also thinks it's her best possible option, especially since you don't seem to know it's bullshit. Why is it bullshit? She knows she's into you. She knows you're into her. You know the same things the other way around. Like every single person on this planet she's afraid. Maybe, just mabye, she's a little more afraid than your average gal because of her history. Now, for you the why and how are completely irrelevant. Maybe you'll figure it out eventually or she'll tell you, maybe not. What it means right now is that you need to recognize what's going on: She's afraid of potentially giving you (emotional) control over the situation if she just straight up says "yes". Frame/Mindset: You know you're into each other. You understand that she's afraid of committing to something she might regret in the future and you believe life is too short to chase "maybes". That's the kind of attitude you need in dealing with her. Basically assume that the only reasons for her hesitation have nothing to do with you or what's going on between you. It's actually not personal. Worst possible case: Honest bomb (among the lines "I understand you're afraid of taking this any further because you might get hurt and I'm afraid that you being afraid might hurt me if I stick around too long." aka "look babe, we're all scared let's be scared together"). Pretty sure you'll see if it clicks with her, if it does escalate as usual. DON'T: Keep the current "uh I'm not so sure" up. While you want the ball of defining your relationship in her court (good) you want the question of having one in the first place in yours. To put it bluntly it's your job to make sure you're into each other and it's her job to define where exactly that's gonna lead. Do your job a bit better and then it's her turn. Keep in mind that the recommendations above are deep, deep rapport building. What this means in practice is that you need to make sure that there's enough sexual attraction between you two to pull those kind of cards. I'm only recommending this in the first place because that department looks alright. Kind of. Actual sex and/or make-outs before this kind of thing would be beneficial but welp, what can you do. PS: Stop drinking so much. Talk to your buddy about whether she's up for grabs if you value his friendship. Figure out a way to meet with her at a place where you can escalate physically before starting anything with new girls. If she leaves you unsure and that leads to you screwing with other girls it must mean that her being cautious was the correct behavior since apparently you weren't into her in the first place. That this very behavior is making you want to screw other girls isn't a possibility she has genuinely considered. PPS: If this results in an actual relationship you guys both will need lots of work. Big topic would be "Power dynamics in relationships", I'm pretty sure that you'll both try and find ways to unconsciously screw each other. =P Woah thanks What a well-written reply!... I'm not sure about her bullshit. You're most likely right, but punching through her wall might just scare her. If I actually go up to her and say "I like you. You like me. Let's give it a chance!", I wouldn't expect her to deny anything. I'd expect her to push me away... The whole "less is more" thing is really true with this one. I think the harder I try the less it works on her. We've agreed to see eachother saturday. Haven't agreed on where or what... I consider inviting her to my place. I have a projector for a cinema-experience in my living room... Then with some wine and maybe some massage, I could imagine things could take off... Doesn't it sound too clichée though?? (Plus, I'm having a party in my appartment friday - and with my depression I've no way of knowing if I can manage to clean up before she'd come saturday). And I think you're right about her acting cautious. And she most likely doesn't realize what it triggers in me. Actually saying no to other attractive girls isn't exactly fun (nor worth it) if this doesn't pay off. But I can't tell her to stop being so cautious... Again, that would just push her away. I really don't know what to do now My take on it is that you were friendzoned a long time ago. She likes your friend still. You both got drunk at a party and she was just like fuck it, let's do it, somewhat out of spite against your friend. Now she regrets doing that because it may have harmed her chances with your friend. Her leading you on is just her way of keeping you around until she gets a definitive no from your friend. He escalated from being buddies. Since that implies sexual attraction he's doing something right, might as well capitalize on that and push it further. Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 04:26 Mentalizor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 03:04 r.Evo wrote:On November 27 2013 22:39 Mentalizor wrote:Trainwreck-Mentalizor is back in need of a tip or two: The girl:+ Show Spoiler +So a friend of mine got a new girlfriend (yay !) However, he celebrated by getting drunk and making out with another girl... One week later he ends up kissing the same girl again - we'll call her... Francine. Asks me if I want to come visit the bar at his university - mostly to keep her away/keep him from doing stupid shit, when he's drunk. I end up talking to her. She's nice. We add eachother on facebook and I get her number. We text furiously (3000+ texts in ~2months). Start to meet up when we're drunk (nothing happens - strictly friendly). Starts to hang out sober aswell. Two weeks ago she invites me to a party, where we end up kissing --> take a taxi to my place --> agree we're too drunk for sex to even make sence, but do all sort of weird shit instead. Fast forward one weekend, I'm at another party right next to her - with the friend I mentioned at the very start. I tell her I'm sleeping at her place (confidence is my bitch, son!), but she's already on her way to bed. I tell her to join the party then - really want to see her. She shows up. We dance and I try to kiss her again. She tells me "not tonight, please don't take it personally"... So ofc I take it personally... Drunk dial her at 5am - "What's wrong with you? Why would you say no?"... She tells me, she's not sure about us. Last weekend ment a lot and we're most definately not JUST friends anymore. But if we're anymore, we shouldn't rush anything. So... I give her time... Thursday (5 days later), I'm at a party. Some girl from my class is seriously hitting on me. I go drunk text Francise about our situation - 'cuz if we're not going to be a thing, I'd might aswell screw the girl at the party. Francine gets upset. We're not talking for 2 days. So I end up texting her, we go out - everything seems cool. We talk about the situation and she's still all "we COULD become a thing, but let's give it time". She's funny, she's intelligent, she's beautiful - and what is somewhat scary: She's suffering from depression - which I am too. I've been in a relationship 7+years with a girl, who never understood how I felt. I feel like a shit friend towards my man, who introduced me to her in order to "keep her away" from him... And next thing you know, I want to date her.
She's indecisive and is taking forever to make up her mind. She's dropping small hints, but I'm too afraid to make a move on it. So apparently we have the potential to become "a thing". And I'd like that... But I'm afraid she's just stalling to tell me 'no' in the end anyway? This weekend I'm going to two different parties. One with the girl from my own university, who hit aggresively on me earlier - and another party with a girl, that I've been with every single time, we've been drunk together. I feel like an idiot if I say no to those girls - just for Francine to potentially tell me 'no' later? If you want to have something with Mrs Francine you need to punch through her wall of bullshit. "We *could* become a thing, but let's give it time" is complete bullshit. She knows it's bullshit. But she also thinks it's her best possible option, especially since you don't seem to know it's bullshit. Why is it bullshit? She knows she's into you. She knows you're into her. You know the same things the other way around. Like every single person on this planet she's afraid. Maybe, just mabye, she's a little more afraid than your average gal because of her history. Now, for you the why and how are completely irrelevant. Maybe you'll figure it out eventually or she'll tell you, maybe not. What it means right now is that you need to recognize what's going on: She's afraid of potentially giving you (emotional) control over the situation if she just straight up says "yes". Frame/Mindset: You know you're into each other. You understand that she's afraid of committing to something she might regret in the future and you believe life is too short to chase "maybes". That's the kind of attitude you need in dealing with her. Basically assume that the only reasons for her hesitation have nothing to do with you or what's going on between you. It's actually not personal. Worst possible case: Honest bomb (among the lines "I understand you're afraid of taking this any further because you might get hurt and I'm afraid that you being afraid might hurt me if I stick around too long." aka "look babe, we're all scared let's be scared together"). Pretty sure you'll see if it clicks with her, if it does escalate as usual. DON'T: Keep the current "uh I'm not so sure" up. While you want the ball of defining your relationship in her court (good) you want the question of having one in the first place in yours. To put it bluntly it's your job to make sure you're into each other and it's her job to define where exactly that's gonna lead. Do your job a bit better and then it's her turn. Keep in mind that the recommendations above are deep, deep rapport building. What this means in practice is that you need to make sure that there's enough sexual attraction between you two to pull those kind of cards. I'm only recommending this in the first place because that department looks alright. Kind of. Actual sex and/or make-outs before this kind of thing would be beneficial but welp, what can you do. PS: Stop drinking so much. Talk to your buddy about whether she's up for grabs if you value his friendship. Figure out a way to meet with her at a place where you can escalate physically before starting anything with new girls. If she leaves you unsure and that leads to you screwing with other girls it must mean that her being cautious was the correct behavior since apparently you weren't into her in the first place. That this very behavior is making you want to screw other girls isn't a possibility she has genuinely considered. PPS: If this results in an actual relationship you guys both will need lots of work. Big topic would be "Power dynamics in relationships", I'm pretty sure that you'll both try and find ways to unconsciously screw each other. =P Woah thanks What a well-written reply!... I'm not sure about her bullshit. You're most likely right, but punching through her wall might just scare her. If I actually go up to her and say "I like you. You like me. Let's give it a chance!", I wouldn't expect her to deny anything. I'd expect her to push me away... The whole "less is more" thing is really true with this one. I think the harder I try the less it works on her. We've agreed to see eachother saturday. Haven't agreed on where or what... I consider inviting her to my place. I have a projector for a cinema-experience in my living room... Then with some wine and maybe some massage, I could imagine things could take off... Doesn't it sound too clichée though?? (Plus, I'm having a party in my appartment friday - and with my depression I've no way of knowing if I can manage to clean up before she'd come saturday). And I think you're right about her acting cautious. And she most likely doesn't realize what it triggers in me. Actually saying no to other attractive girls isn't exactly fun (nor worth it) if this doesn't pay off. But I can't tell her to stop being so cautious... Again, that would just push her away. I really don't know what to do now What I mean by "punching through her wall" is being honest about it. a) "I like you. You like me. Let's give it a chance!" b) "I like you. You like me. I understand that you're afraid of being hurt and all that does is make me afraid of being hurt. Can we just stop all that bullshit please?" IF reaction_positive -> kiss. You're not there to tell her to stop being cautious. You're not there to ask for her emotional dedication to you. You're there to reassert that if she wants a place in your life (which includes being jealous if you talk about other conquests), cool - but she has to fill that role or not. Sure you like her - but that's not enough if she's clearly (yes, interpret every maybe = no in front of her and as yes in front of yourself) is not into you. If you find a way to escalate instead (which movie date sounds like as usual), do that. Again, it's her job to define your actual relationship but your job to make sure that you establish borders. What this means in practice is that you have to step in when what she says ("Uhh... I'm not so sure about whether we could become a thing!") isn't congruent with what she does ("wtf how can you think about screwing other girls?!"). Whenever this happens and your initial chain of thought is equivalent to "?????????" tell her that you aren't a couple - any kind of reaction that is trying to go against that should mean more escalation. Repeat until well cooked. Can I please just husband you ? One thing I haven't made clear obviously: When I spoke to her about us being a thing - because if we weren't I could do the university girl, she wasn't "How can you think about screwing others?!?!"... She was more like "If we were to become a thing, I'd need us to be based on love and respect, which that text clearly didn't show". And telling her, she doesn't act according to what she's saying doesn't always seem like a smart move with girls, you know ? However, I like your way of wording the "bullshit-breaker". Well... I'll most likely be off TL a few days now. Might update sunday or monday. Thanks for your advice! On November 28 2013 10:47 IgnE wrote:
My take on it is that you were friendzoned a long time ago. She likes your friend still. You both got drunk at a party and she was just like fuck it, let's do it, somewhat out of spite against your friend. Now she regrets doing that because it may have harmed her chances with your friend. Her leading you on is just her way of keeping you around until she gets a definitive no from your friend.
He's got a girlfriend and actually told her no a long time ago. They hardly ever talk. I talk to her a LOT more than they talk to each other. They've actually become somewhat awkward. So while I can imagine this whole scenario go thousands of ways - I can't really imagine her crushing on him... at all... Plus... The whole friendzone thing is utter bullshit... If you'd actually want a girl for sex/relationship and not friendship just act on it and take the chance. Just a few months ago I had sex with my best friend through 8 years (nothing had happened before). So I don't really bite into the whole friend-zone-thing. So I've got a follow-up to this girl/story. Saturday night she came to visit me We talk for a while and I ofter to open a bottle of wine or maybe mix her a drink, but she tells me she'd prefer to not drink tonight. So with her (and me) being sober - and me knowing she's sober, nothing really happens. She came around 8 o'clock and around 2:30 AM she says, she's got a bit of a headache and should probably head on home... Unless she could just sleep at my place. So ofc we crawl into bed together. We simply talk and laugh for a few hours until I man up and kiss her. She kissed me back! Sober! ........however... We only ended up kissing for a few minutes and then we just spooned and fell asleep. Next morning we both acted like nothing (still being super friendly and all - but not kissing - and not mentioning kissing at all). I've talked to a few female friends, who actually somewhat agree, that I shouldn't mention it to her. Their guess is, that we're currently in a zone, where things can happen if it feels right - but I most likely shouldn't try to force anything. Thoughts from TL ?
Invite her over again?
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On December 04 2013 00:44 Mentalizor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 01:44 Mentalizor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 13:11 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 10:47 IgnE wrote:On November 28 2013 04:26 Mentalizor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 03:04 r.Evo wrote:On November 27 2013 22:39 Mentalizor wrote:Trainwreck-Mentalizor is back in need of a tip or two: The girl:+ Show Spoiler +So a friend of mine got a new girlfriend (yay !) However, he celebrated by getting drunk and making out with another girl... One week later he ends up kissing the same girl again - we'll call her... Francine. Asks me if I want to come visit the bar at his university - mostly to keep her away/keep him from doing stupid shit, when he's drunk. I end up talking to her. She's nice. We add eachother on facebook and I get her number. We text furiously (3000+ texts in ~2months). Start to meet up when we're drunk (nothing happens - strictly friendly). Starts to hang out sober aswell. Two weeks ago she invites me to a party, where we end up kissing --> take a taxi to my place --> agree we're too drunk for sex to even make sence, but do all sort of weird shit instead. Fast forward one weekend, I'm at another party right next to her - with the friend I mentioned at the very start. I tell her I'm sleeping at her place (confidence is my bitch, son!), but she's already on her way to bed. I tell her to join the party then - really want to see her. She shows up. We dance and I try to kiss her again. She tells me "not tonight, please don't take it personally"... So ofc I take it personally... Drunk dial her at 5am - "What's wrong with you? Why would you say no?"... She tells me, she's not sure about us. Last weekend ment a lot and we're most definately not JUST friends anymore. But if we're anymore, we shouldn't rush anything. So... I give her time... Thursday (5 days later), I'm at a party. Some girl from my class is seriously hitting on me. I go drunk text Francise about our situation - 'cuz if we're not going to be a thing, I'd might aswell screw the girl at the party. Francine gets upset. We're not talking for 2 days. So I end up texting her, we go out - everything seems cool. We talk about the situation and she's still all "we COULD become a thing, but let's give it time". She's funny, she's intelligent, she's beautiful - and what is somewhat scary: She's suffering from depression - which I am too. I've been in a relationship 7+years with a girl, who never understood how I felt. I feel like a shit friend towards my man, who introduced me to her in order to "keep her away" from him... And next thing you know, I want to date her.
She's indecisive and is taking forever to make up her mind. She's dropping small hints, but I'm too afraid to make a move on it. So apparently we have the potential to become "a thing". And I'd like that... But I'm afraid she's just stalling to tell me 'no' in the end anyway? This weekend I'm going to two different parties. One with the girl from my own university, who hit aggresively on me earlier - and another party with a girl, that I've been with every single time, we've been drunk together. I feel like an idiot if I say no to those girls - just for Francine to potentially tell me 'no' later? If you want to have something with Mrs Francine you need to punch through her wall of bullshit. "We *could* become a thing, but let's give it time" is complete bullshit. She knows it's bullshit. But she also thinks it's her best possible option, especially since you don't seem to know it's bullshit. Why is it bullshit? She knows she's into you. She knows you're into her. You know the same things the other way around. Like every single person on this planet she's afraid. Maybe, just mabye, she's a little more afraid than your average gal because of her history. Now, for you the why and how are completely irrelevant. Maybe you'll figure it out eventually or she'll tell you, maybe not. What it means right now is that you need to recognize what's going on: She's afraid of potentially giving you (emotional) control over the situation if she just straight up says "yes". Frame/Mindset: You know you're into each other. You understand that she's afraid of committing to something she might regret in the future and you believe life is too short to chase "maybes". That's the kind of attitude you need in dealing with her. Basically assume that the only reasons for her hesitation have nothing to do with you or what's going on between you. It's actually not personal. Worst possible case: Honest bomb (among the lines "I understand you're afraid of taking this any further because you might get hurt and I'm afraid that you being afraid might hurt me if I stick around too long." aka "look babe, we're all scared let's be scared together"). Pretty sure you'll see if it clicks with her, if it does escalate as usual. DON'T: Keep the current "uh I'm not so sure" up. While you want the ball of defining your relationship in her court (good) you want the question of having one in the first place in yours. To put it bluntly it's your job to make sure you're into each other and it's her job to define where exactly that's gonna lead. Do your job a bit better and then it's her turn. Keep in mind that the recommendations above are deep, deep rapport building. What this means in practice is that you need to make sure that there's enough sexual attraction between you two to pull those kind of cards. I'm only recommending this in the first place because that department looks alright. Kind of. Actual sex and/or make-outs before this kind of thing would be beneficial but welp, what can you do. PS: Stop drinking so much. Talk to your buddy about whether she's up for grabs if you value his friendship. Figure out a way to meet with her at a place where you can escalate physically before starting anything with new girls. If she leaves you unsure and that leads to you screwing with other girls it must mean that her being cautious was the correct behavior since apparently you weren't into her in the first place. That this very behavior is making you want to screw other girls isn't a possibility she has genuinely considered. PPS: If this results in an actual relationship you guys both will need lots of work. Big topic would be "Power dynamics in relationships", I'm pretty sure that you'll both try and find ways to unconsciously screw each other. =P Woah thanks What a well-written reply!... I'm not sure about her bullshit. You're most likely right, but punching through her wall might just scare her. If I actually go up to her and say "I like you. You like me. Let's give it a chance!", I wouldn't expect her to deny anything. I'd expect her to push me away... The whole "less is more" thing is really true with this one. I think the harder I try the less it works on her. We've agreed to see eachother saturday. Haven't agreed on where or what... I consider inviting her to my place. I have a projector for a cinema-experience in my living room... Then with some wine and maybe some massage, I could imagine things could take off... Doesn't it sound too clichée though?? (Plus, I'm having a party in my appartment friday - and with my depression I've no way of knowing if I can manage to clean up before she'd come saturday). And I think you're right about her acting cautious. And she most likely doesn't realize what it triggers in me. Actually saying no to other attractive girls isn't exactly fun (nor worth it) if this doesn't pay off. But I can't tell her to stop being so cautious... Again, that would just push her away. I really don't know what to do now My take on it is that you were friendzoned a long time ago. She likes your friend still. You both got drunk at a party and she was just like fuck it, let's do it, somewhat out of spite against your friend. Now she regrets doing that because it may have harmed her chances with your friend. Her leading you on is just her way of keeping you around until she gets a definitive no from your friend. He escalated from being buddies. Since that implies sexual attraction he's doing something right, might as well capitalize on that and push it further. Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 04:26 Mentalizor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2013 03:04 r.Evo wrote:On November 27 2013 22:39 Mentalizor wrote:Trainwreck-Mentalizor is back in need of a tip or two: The girl:+ Show Spoiler +So a friend of mine got a new girlfriend (yay !) However, he celebrated by getting drunk and making out with another girl... One week later he ends up kissing the same girl again - we'll call her... Francine. Asks me if I want to come visit the bar at his university - mostly to keep her away/keep him from doing stupid shit, when he's drunk. I end up talking to her. She's nice. We add eachother on facebook and I get her number. We text furiously (3000+ texts in ~2months). Start to meet up when we're drunk (nothing happens - strictly friendly). Starts to hang out sober aswell. Two weeks ago she invites me to a party, where we end up kissing --> take a taxi to my place --> agree we're too drunk for sex to even make sence, but do all sort of weird shit instead. Fast forward one weekend, I'm at another party right next to her - with the friend I mentioned at the very start. I tell her I'm sleeping at her place (confidence is my bitch, son!), but she's already on her way to bed. I tell her to join the party then - really want to see her. She shows up. We dance and I try to kiss her again. She tells me "not tonight, please don't take it personally"... So ofc I take it personally... Drunk dial her at 5am - "What's wrong with you? Why would you say no?"... She tells me, she's not sure about us. Last weekend ment a lot and we're most definately not JUST friends anymore. But if we're anymore, we shouldn't rush anything. So... I give her time... Thursday (5 days later), I'm at a party. Some girl from my class is seriously hitting on me. I go drunk text Francise about our situation - 'cuz if we're not going to be a thing, I'd might aswell screw the girl at the party. Francine gets upset. We're not talking for 2 days. So I end up texting her, we go out - everything seems cool. We talk about the situation and she's still all "we COULD become a thing, but let's give it time". She's funny, she's intelligent, she's beautiful - and what is somewhat scary: She's suffering from depression - which I am too. I've been in a relationship 7+years with a girl, who never understood how I felt. I feel like a shit friend towards my man, who introduced me to her in order to "keep her away" from him... And next thing you know, I want to date her.
She's indecisive and is taking forever to make up her mind. She's dropping small hints, but I'm too afraid to make a move on it. So apparently we have the potential to become "a thing". And I'd like that... But I'm afraid she's just stalling to tell me 'no' in the end anyway? This weekend I'm going to two different parties. One with the girl from my own university, who hit aggresively on me earlier - and another party with a girl, that I've been with every single time, we've been drunk together. I feel like an idiot if I say no to those girls - just for Francine to potentially tell me 'no' later? If you want to have something with Mrs Francine you need to punch through her wall of bullshit. "We *could* become a thing, but let's give it time" is complete bullshit. She knows it's bullshit. But she also thinks it's her best possible option, especially since you don't seem to know it's bullshit. Why is it bullshit? She knows she's into you. She knows you're into her. You know the same things the other way around. Like every single person on this planet she's afraid. Maybe, just mabye, she's a little more afraid than your average gal because of her history. Now, for you the why and how are completely irrelevant. Maybe you'll figure it out eventually or she'll tell you, maybe not. What it means right now is that you need to recognize what's going on: She's afraid of potentially giving you (emotional) control over the situation if she just straight up says "yes". Frame/Mindset: You know you're into each other. You understand that she's afraid of committing to something she might regret in the future and you believe life is too short to chase "maybes". That's the kind of attitude you need in dealing with her. Basically assume that the only reasons for her hesitation have nothing to do with you or what's going on between you. It's actually not personal. Worst possible case: Honest bomb (among the lines "I understand you're afraid of taking this any further because you might get hurt and I'm afraid that you being afraid might hurt me if I stick around too long." aka "look babe, we're all scared let's be scared together"). Pretty sure you'll see if it clicks with her, if it does escalate as usual. DON'T: Keep the current "uh I'm not so sure" up. While you want the ball of defining your relationship in her court (good) you want the question of having one in the first place in yours. To put it bluntly it's your job to make sure you're into each other and it's her job to define where exactly that's gonna lead. Do your job a bit better and then it's her turn. Keep in mind that the recommendations above are deep, deep rapport building. What this means in practice is that you need to make sure that there's enough sexual attraction between you two to pull those kind of cards. I'm only recommending this in the first place because that department looks alright. Kind of. Actual sex and/or make-outs before this kind of thing would be beneficial but welp, what can you do. PS: Stop drinking so much. Talk to your buddy about whether she's up for grabs if you value his friendship. Figure out a way to meet with her at a place where you can escalate physically before starting anything with new girls. If she leaves you unsure and that leads to you screwing with other girls it must mean that her being cautious was the correct behavior since apparently you weren't into her in the first place. That this very behavior is making you want to screw other girls isn't a possibility she has genuinely considered. PPS: If this results in an actual relationship you guys both will need lots of work. Big topic would be "Power dynamics in relationships", I'm pretty sure that you'll both try and find ways to unconsciously screw each other. =P Woah thanks What a well-written reply!... I'm not sure about her bullshit. You're most likely right, but punching through her wall might just scare her. If I actually go up to her and say "I like you. You like me. Let's give it a chance!", I wouldn't expect her to deny anything. I'd expect her to push me away... The whole "less is more" thing is really true with this one. I think the harder I try the less it works on her. We've agreed to see eachother saturday. Haven't agreed on where or what... I consider inviting her to my place. I have a projector for a cinema-experience in my living room... Then with some wine and maybe some massage, I could imagine things could take off... Doesn't it sound too clichée though?? (Plus, I'm having a party in my appartment friday - and with my depression I've no way of knowing if I can manage to clean up before she'd come saturday). And I think you're right about her acting cautious. And she most likely doesn't realize what it triggers in me. Actually saying no to other attractive girls isn't exactly fun (nor worth it) if this doesn't pay off. But I can't tell her to stop being so cautious... Again, that would just push her away. I really don't know what to do now What I mean by "punching through her wall" is being honest about it. a) "I like you. You like me. Let's give it a chance!" b) "I like you. You like me. I understand that you're afraid of being hurt and all that does is make me afraid of being hurt. Can we just stop all that bullshit please?" IF reaction_positive -> kiss. You're not there to tell her to stop being cautious. You're not there to ask for her emotional dedication to you. You're there to reassert that if she wants a place in your life (which includes being jealous if you talk about other conquests), cool - but she has to fill that role or not. Sure you like her - but that's not enough if she's clearly (yes, interpret every maybe = no in front of her and as yes in front of yourself) is not into you. If you find a way to escalate instead (which movie date sounds like as usual), do that. Again, it's her job to define your actual relationship but your job to make sure that you establish borders. What this means in practice is that you have to step in when what she says ("Uhh... I'm not so sure about whether we could become a thing!") isn't congruent with what she does ("wtf how can you think about screwing other girls?!"). Whenever this happens and your initial chain of thought is equivalent to "?????????" tell her that you aren't a couple - any kind of reaction that is trying to go against that should mean more escalation. Repeat until well cooked. Can I please just husband you ? One thing I haven't made clear obviously: When I spoke to her about us being a thing - because if we weren't I could do the university girl, she wasn't "How can you think about screwing others?!?!"... She was more like "If we were to become a thing, I'd need us to be based on love and respect, which that text clearly didn't show". And telling her, she doesn't act according to what she's saying doesn't always seem like a smart move with girls, you know ? However, I like your way of wording the "bullshit-breaker". Well... I'll most likely be off TL a few days now. Might update sunday or monday. Thanks for your advice! On November 28 2013 10:47 IgnE wrote:
My take on it is that you were friendzoned a long time ago. She likes your friend still. You both got drunk at a party and she was just like fuck it, let's do it, somewhat out of spite against your friend. Now she regrets doing that because it may have harmed her chances with your friend. Her leading you on is just her way of keeping you around until she gets a definitive no from your friend.
He's got a girlfriend and actually told her no a long time ago. They hardly ever talk. I talk to her a LOT more than they talk to each other. They've actually become somewhat awkward. So while I can imagine this whole scenario go thousands of ways - I can't really imagine her crushing on him... at all... Plus... The whole friendzone thing is utter bullshit... If you'd actually want a girl for sex/relationship and not friendship just act on it and take the chance. Just a few months ago I had sex with my best friend through 8 years (nothing had happened before). So I don't really bite into the whole friend-zone-thing. So I've got a follow-up to this girl/story. Saturday night she came to visit me We talk for a while and I ofter to open a bottle of wine or maybe mix her a drink, but she tells me she'd prefer to not drink tonight. So with her (and me) being sober - and me knowing she's sober, nothing really happens. She came around 8 o'clock and around 2:30 AM she says, she's got a bit of a headache and should probably head on home... Unless she could just sleep at my place. So ofc we crawl into bed together. We simply talk and laugh for a few hours until I man up and kiss her. She kissed me back! Sober! ........however... We only ended up kissing for a few minutes and then we just spooned and fell asleep. Next morning we both acted like nothing (still being super friendly and all - but not kissing - and not mentioning kissing at all). I've talked to a few female friends, who actually somewhat agree, that I shouldn't mention it to her. Their guess is, that we're currently in a zone, where things can happen if it feels right - but I most likely shouldn't try to force anything. Thoughts from TL ?
It's only going to feel forced if you make it that way. Act with confidence, and sooner rather than later. Sounds like there's sexual tension that you are completely avoiding. Embrace it and capitalize.
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Netherlands6175 Posts
If she wasn't comfortable with the idea of possibly having sex with you, she would have left when her headache started. Also, 2AM is no early hour. If she wasn't interested to some degree she'd have left. So all in all, positive vibes mean she'll most likely accept a second date if you ask her on one. Keep it a casual, social situation though, so that she doesn't have to feel pressured into thinking it's a date date. Something like going to a fair or a theatre etc. If she wants to continue the interaction on a more personal level afterwards she'll let you know.
Edit: while I'm here, thoughts on long distance dating?
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On December 03 2013 17:24 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
A little off putting, my friend said the more girls you are intimate with the harder it is to make an emotional connection with one.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that your friend hasn't been intimate with very many people, and uses this to justify that
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Netherlands6175 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:14 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 17:24 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
A little off putting, my friend said the more girls you are intimate with the harder it is to make an emotional connection with one. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that your friend hasn't been intimate with very many people, and uses this to justify that
Or he genuinely means that you do grow cold towards people you are intimate with because you see them as objects. I would say that those are extreme cases though, or else that person is a bit emotionally imbalanced. But I do believe an emotional connection can be made with the right person. You just need to approach that person differently.
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EPT
