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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
I hate how this thread once again drifted into meaningless theoretical banter that does not serve any purpose other than to piss off everyone involved and/or reading it. After all this thread is asking "how's your luck", not "how might the general luck be in theory". So here is a small story from me: + Show Spoiler +
I study in a city that is 70+km from where I live, so I travel ~2 hours twice a day (if I have and attend classes). That is quite some time I am stuck in trains with other people, and in reverse other people stuck with me. So eventually I recognized people who were travelling the same route every day for mostly the same reasons (few for university, many for school such as for becoming a bank assistant). Then, around one and a half years ago, in a new semester I noticed a girl that was taking the same trains I did most days, and sometimes I got stuck on the same train station when once again there were some problems (train late/someone suicided/whatever) with the trains. She looked pretty to me, a bit shy (but I'm into the soft type of women anyway, so it was fine), but she seemed to like me given we smiled at each other every time we met.
So one day we were once again stuck on a train station, so I just went up to her and talked to her for a while. We got along fine, and for the rest of the semester we met about a couple times a week in trains and talked a lot (I found out that she had a boyfriend, so I didn't try anything, even though I liked her). The frequency of our meetings somewhat decreased, as she liked to take an earlier train and spend one hour at the university before lectures start (for whatever reasons). We still enjoyed meeting and had a fun time talking for an hour each time. Since I don't really have many people to talk to I was happy every time I met her, even days in advance when I knew our train schedules would intersect once more. I learned a lot about her (and my brain works pretty good memorizing that kind of stuff) during that time, and there was always a bit of bitterness inside me when we parted ways once more.
The next semester, we barely met on the train, as our class schedules did not match and where they did, she would usually take an earlier train. So in January we met once more, and I found out by chance that she was now single, but that her family would move back to Brazil this summer. So I knew that it would not be worth trying to start anything knowing it would come to an end this summer anyway. I met her a couple times on the train since then, and once in the city. So two days ago due to a series of events that usually do not happen I took a train way later than usual, and I met her once more. She is to depart to Brazil in a month, and expecting to not meet again until then we said our final goodbyes. I'm still sad about that (although I have been said about her moving away since I found out about it in January).
Now I am curious - did she ever 'like' like me, or just accept me as a somewhat fun way to pass time? Was I semi-friend-zoned? She seemed to genuinly enjoy talking to me, but then again I try to be as nice as possible and comforting around people I like to be around, hoping they don't just ditch me, so I'm not sure what to think about that. She also liked to check for messages from her mum from time to time on her mobile phone, and she never looked out for me if I was waiting on the same train station, I always had to find her if I wanted to talk to her. But she also told me she likes for men to take the first step (back when she still had a BF), so maybe she was waiting for me to show a sign of interest first. Which would be weird, given that I was the one showing interest in the first place, walking up to a stranger and getting to know her by finding her on trains (not in an awkward stalker way). So yeah, I'm still puzzled about how she really felt about me, although it is not like I fell in love with her, just curiosity on my part, trying to become a better/wiser person to not ruin any chance with the next girl I really fall in love with (if there is one).
Oh and in case you were wondering, she was not the first girl I got to know on the train by talking to a stranger, many people are bored in an hour long ride and enjoy some company as long as I am gentle and friendly and not pushing anything, so she was the third girl that I met on a daily basis on the train that I would talk to for hours (the first one finished her education and moved to colombia or something, the second one started to hide from me after semester vacation after having spend many hours talking to me for half a year, probably because she does not want to be seen with me in front of her friends. I once went to talk to her once more in front of her friends because I felt backstabbed she didn't even say a word or give me a clean cut, and also to confirm my suspicions that she does feel very uncomfortable with me around and not just forgot about me. Still sad she rather hides instead of having the spine to tell me that she would like not to talk to me anymore, but then again I was the one to bother her in the first place, so I accepted her silent wish and started to ignore her, even though I see her from time to time on the train. She is half italian. No clue why you would want that info). I don't get to know many people and am quite lonely, so I take my chances where I can, even if I am just an entertainer in a time of boredom.
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Slightly off-topic, I found this post on reddit and I guess I kind of wanted to put it up here as a case study, to see what people here think of it.
+ Show Spoiler +Yes, nobody likes a shy and modest man that is easily satisfied with his basic needs and doesn't actually enjoy dominance while truly caring about others.
I enjoy playing computer games, I don't care about fashion or my physical appearance, I don't actually enjoy going out and dancing, I don't actually enjoy being in a room with many people, I don't actually enjoy being extroverted. I really enjoy D&D, manga, anime, books, games, and all that shit. I don't give a shit about sports. I don't like to cook and would rather order Chinese every day. I don't like to fight. I don't even like to talk very much. I don't like to lead at all. I don't like being confident and I naturally question everything I do and think that's a good thing. Actually, I think people who actually are confident about their actions and opinions are idiots.
I actually like the people I'm with and don't want to lose them and do get upset and jealous when they interact with other men and would love to tell them, so I am naturally clingy.
I also don't give a shit about most of the nonsense hot women usually are interested in. I don't find things funny or appealing that naturally outgoing and fit people find funny or appealing.
In short: I'm a huge nerd and would rather sit at home all day, reading a book in front of a logfire while petting a fluffy cat.
For activities with friends I would choose to play PC games for days on end.
But guess what: I like to have sex with hot women. And hot women usually don't like any of the things I like. And girls who do like what I like in most cases aren't hot.
And to have sex with hot women I have to lie about more or less everything I actually am:
I do sports to stay fit and pretend to enjoy it and care, I eat healthy and pretend to enjoy it and care, I cook a lot and pretend to enjoy it and care, I learn about stuff I don't give the slightest shit about, I pretend to be confident, I pretend not to care that much about other people, I don't talk about science, books, manga, and games despite those topics being so much more interesting than everything else, I do stand up for myself rather than running away and calling the cops (which I think is the better alternative to aggression), I talk all the time and have practiced smalltalk and am better at it than people who actually do like to talk. I won't interject and contradict people all the time, I won't try and debate people all the time when it comes to politics and won't annoy them with endless monologues nor will I call them out when they say something stupid (just look at my comment history here on reddit... that kind of interaction is what I find entertaining and worthwhile).
Why do I do all that? Because that gets me hot women and significantly more dates.
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On June 06 2013 22:13 BeyondCtrL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 21:43 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 21:38 Grumbels wrote:On June 06 2013 21:25 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 21:10 saddaromma wrote:On June 06 2013 21:00 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 20:51 saddaromma wrote:On June 06 2013 20:35 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 20:30 Killscreen wrote:On June 06 2013 20:24 sunprince wrote:
[quote]
"Your StarCraft 'skill' is precisely what you perceive it to be. If you subconsciously believe your opponent is 'higher skill', so will he. Having APM and game sense definitely help, but in the end simply believing you're good enough to beat him will make a bigger difference."
Can you spot the error in that line of reasoning? Yes, you are comparing something tangible and quantifiable to something that isnt. Sexual marketplace value is just as tangible and quantifiable as StarCraft skill. Incidentally, the point I was making is that your perception of your value cannot change aspects of your value such as your financial status, physical stature, or social status. Sure, confidence helps, but simply believing you're good enough for a supermodel will not change the fact that she will not date an unemployed basement dweller with any amount of confidence. On top of that, too much confidence looks absolutely stupid if there is nothing to back it up. You're half right and half wrong. Man-value plays a lot when you want to pick up mainstream chicks. Be it in bar, at your office or in the street. You don't need something in common with her, and most-likely your relationship won't last long. And neither of you will be satisfied. Pretty sure thats not what we want. Afterall its not a pickup site. To get a 'real' girl-friend/lover/wife you don't need to concentrate on your value, just get into some minimum treshold. I guess having a simple college degree and mid-class job will suffice. The problem is finding the right one. A minimum threshold of value is required to attain the minimum threshold of any girl. However, if you want a girl with high value, you're going to need to be guy with equal or higher value. What do you mean by 'girl with high value', is it that girl requires high value or she has it? If latter then I guess you're kinda wrong. Princess can easily fall in love with a commoner (and vice-versa). By 'value', I'm referring to sexual marketplace value. A woman's sexual marketplace value is primarily determined by her physical attractiveness (which incorporates youth, fertility, fitness, etc.), and secondarily by traits such as intelligence, femininity, sexiness, and pleasing personality. To put it simply, if you want a beautiful, highly desirable woman who can have her pick of nearly any man she wants, then you had better be a highly desirable man yourself. Otherwise, why would she settle for you when she can do so much better? On June 06 2013 21:10 saddaromma wrote:Man-woman relationship is not economics. Its about feelings. Feelings determine human behavior. Economics studies human behavior. Asking what you have to offer to a famous actress or so isn't really fair. If sexual marketplace value is real then it follows a bell curve, which means that most people are average and relatively close to each other in value. That girl you liked at that party is 9/10 times not going to be out of your league, the only question then is circumstances and personal match. It is true that most people are average and relatively close in value. However, the girl you liked at that party is generally going to be above average in value, and in fact is likely to be one of the highest value girls that you met at the party. Also, most guys are not interested in learning how they can date/fuck/marry an average girl; rather, they want the best girl (or close to the best girl) they can get. Accordingly, those guys are going to want to learn how to maximize their own value. Women primarily look for healthy men. An all-round healthy man is fit, intelligent, attractive and well dressed. Fitness, intelligence and attractiveness are very closely linked since those attributes are some of the visually strongest indicators of health. Being able to fulfill at least 3 of the criteria will guarantee you a decent, if not better, chance to successfully engage women in almost any circumstance.
False. Women primarily look for men of higher social status. Being physically fit, intelligent, attractive, and well-dressed can contribute to that higher social status, but not all of those are indicators of health, nor are they the only factors for social status.
If health were the primary criteria for male attractiveness, then it would stand to reason that women would be most attracted to men in their late teens and early twenties, when men are at their healthiest. To the contrary, men in their late teens and early twenties tend to have low sexual marketplace value, while older men tend to have higher sexual marketplace value (e.g. women are more attracted to the latter, rather than the former). The reason for this is because older men have higher social status and therefore higher sexual marketplace value.
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I agree with sunprince's post above and it is worth mentioning that men typically seek health in women. Men are attracted to smooth skin and long flowing hair, because those are two things that can easily get ruined by disease. Men are attracted to youth because it is a sign of both health and still having a number of good years for getting pregnant.
Women aren't as much into health in men. They have never cared that much if their men don't have flawless skin. Hell, throw in a few war wounds and a beer gut and a lot of women are going to find that person more attractive. And men don't lose their sex appeal by getting older, they may even gain it.
And, seriously? Well dressed is a sign of health? What the actual fuck.
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On June 06 2013 22:20 Grumbels wrote:Slightly off-topic, I found this post on reddit and I guess I kind of wanted to put it up here as a case study, to see what people here think of it. + Show Spoiler +Yes, nobody likes a shy and modest man that is easily satisfied with his basic needs and doesn't actually enjoy dominance while truly caring about others.
I enjoy playing computer games, I don't care about fashion or my physical appearance, I don't actually enjoy going out and dancing, I don't actually enjoy being in a room with many people, I don't actually enjoy being extroverted. I really enjoy D&D, manga, anime, books, games, and all that shit. I don't give a shit about sports. I don't like to cook and would rather order Chinese every day. I don't like to fight. I don't even like to talk very much. I don't like to lead at all. I don't like being confident and I naturally question everything I do and think that's a good thing. Actually, I think people who actually are confident about their actions and opinions are idiots.
I actually like the people I'm with and don't want to lose them and do get upset and jealous when they interact with other men and would love to tell them, so I am naturally clingy.
I also don't give a shit about most of the nonsense hot women usually are interested in. I don't find things funny or appealing that naturally outgoing and fit people find funny or appealing.
In short: I'm a huge nerd and would rather sit at home all day, reading a book in front of a logfire while petting a fluffy cat.
For activities with friends I would choose to play PC games for days on end.
But guess what: I like to have sex with hot women. And hot women usually don't like any of the things I like. And girls who do like what I like in most cases aren't hot.
And to have sex with hot women I have to lie about more or less everything I actually am:
I do sports to stay fit and pretend to enjoy it and care, I eat healthy and pretend to enjoy it and care, I cook a lot and pretend to enjoy it and care, I learn about stuff I don't give the slightest shit about, I pretend to be confident, I pretend not to care that much about other people, I don't talk about science, books, manga, and games despite those topics being so much more interesting than everything else, I do stand up for myself rather than running away and calling the cops (which I think is the better alternative to aggression), I talk all the time and have practiced smalltalk and am better at it than people who actually do like to talk. I won't interject and contradict people all the time, I won't try and debate people all the time when it comes to politics and won't annoy them with endless monologues nor will I call them out when they say something stupid (just look at my comment history here on reddit... that kind of interaction is what I find entertaining and worthwhile).
Why do I do all that? Because that gets me hot women and significantly more dates.
What is there to think about it? He's right pretty much about everything.
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On June 06 2013 22:59 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 22:20 Grumbels wrote:Slightly off-topic, I found this post on reddit and I guess I kind of wanted to put it up here as a case study, to see what people here think of it. + Show Spoiler +Yes, nobody likes a shy and modest man that is easily satisfied with his basic needs and doesn't actually enjoy dominance while truly caring about others.
I enjoy playing computer games, I don't care about fashion or my physical appearance, I don't actually enjoy going out and dancing, I don't actually enjoy being in a room with many people, I don't actually enjoy being extroverted. I really enjoy D&D, manga, anime, books, games, and all that shit. I don't give a shit about sports. I don't like to cook and would rather order Chinese every day. I don't like to fight. I don't even like to talk very much. I don't like to lead at all. I don't like being confident and I naturally question everything I do and think that's a good thing. Actually, I think people who actually are confident about their actions and opinions are idiots.
I actually like the people I'm with and don't want to lose them and do get upset and jealous when they interact with other men and would love to tell them, so I am naturally clingy.
I also don't give a shit about most of the nonsense hot women usually are interested in. I don't find things funny or appealing that naturally outgoing and fit people find funny or appealing.
In short: I'm a huge nerd and would rather sit at home all day, reading a book in front of a logfire while petting a fluffy cat.
For activities with friends I would choose to play PC games for days on end.
But guess what: I like to have sex with hot women. And hot women usually don't like any of the things I like. And girls who do like what I like in most cases aren't hot.
And to have sex with hot women I have to lie about more or less everything I actually am:
I do sports to stay fit and pretend to enjoy it and care, I eat healthy and pretend to enjoy it and care, I cook a lot and pretend to enjoy it and care, I learn about stuff I don't give the slightest shit about, I pretend to be confident, I pretend not to care that much about other people, I don't talk about science, books, manga, and games despite those topics being so much more interesting than everything else, I do stand up for myself rather than running away and calling the cops (which I think is the better alternative to aggression), I talk all the time and have practiced smalltalk and am better at it than people who actually do like to talk. I won't interject and contradict people all the time, I won't try and debate people all the time when it comes to politics and won't annoy them with endless monologues nor will I call them out when they say something stupid (just look at my comment history here on reddit... that kind of interaction is what I find entertaining and worthwhile).
Why do I do all that? Because that gets me hot women and significantly more dates. What is there to think about it? He's right pretty much about everything.
Everytime I read something from you it's really depressing but the sad truth. So being strategic about it and looking at it from a perspective of a game it's depressing. But like the Cirqueenflex was suggesting I would rather read optimistic or personal stories about THEIR dating luck instead of talking about the most efficient way to fuck while clubbing. 
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On June 06 2013 05:16 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 00:03 Slardar wrote:
My dating luck has been akin to that StarCraft priorities picture 2 pages back. Yeah, quite bad. I'm too particular about ladies, not to say my standards are high or anything... you don't get great odds with 1 or 2 dice. There are and have been plenty of men for whom women is a relatively low priority, yet manage to do well with women. The most successful men throughout history have never been Casanovas (e.g. PUAs); rather, they have been conquerors/kings/leaders (e.g. men with power/wealth). Blaming your low dating success on not prioritizing dating is just an excuse to feel better about the real problem: you have low sexual marketplace value. If you were a high-value man, it wouldn't matter if you didn't prioritize women; they would flock to you of their own accord. So if you want better dating "luck", go increase your value. Work on your education and career, hit the gym and improve your body, develop your social skills, etc.
I really don't get why everyone spent pages arguing this. it is accurate
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Because if it is accurate, it is in a certain restricted sense and even if it 100% solid, it is not clear at all any dating advice should be given from this perspective.
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On June 07 2013 00:09 corumjhaelen wrote:
Because if it is accurate, it is in a certain restricted sense and even if it 100% solid, it is not clear at all any dating advice should be given from this perspective.
Other than improving your status you can lie about it so other people perceive you as better than you actually are (and here you can give lots of advices). In fact even the people perceived as role models do lie to look better in the eyes of women or people in general and if you refuse to do so you are most likely not competitive enough to get the sex you want. It's completely acceptable to lie in society to achieve your goals and as long as you do it smartly people will appreciate you for this. That's when dating advices, PUA and stuff like this come in handy. Now if you think it's disgusting I agree with you but that doesn't change it's how it works.
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On June 07 2013 00:18 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 00:09 corumjhaelen wrote:
Because if it is accurate, it is in a certain restricted sense and even if it 100% solid, it is not clear at all any dating advice should be given from this perspective. Other than improving your status you can lie about it so other people perceive you as better than you actually are (and here you can give lots of advices). In fact even the people perceived as role models do lie to look better in the eyes of women or people in general and if you refuse to do so you are most likely not competitive enough to get the sex you want. It's completely acceptable to lie in society to achieve your goals and as long as you do it smartly people will appreciate you for this. That's when dating advices, PUA and stuff like this come in handy. Now if you think it's disgusting I agree with you but that doesn't change it's how it works.
"That's how it works"=> "It's disgusting, just do it" = whatever you need to feel better about yourself 
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On June 07 2013 00:24 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 00:18 aTnClouD wrote:On June 07 2013 00:09 corumjhaelen wrote:
Because if it is accurate, it is in a certain restricted sense and even if it 100% solid, it is not clear at all any dating advice should be given from this perspective. Other than improving your status you can lie about it so other people perceive you as better than you actually are (and here you can give lots of advices). In fact even the people perceived as role models do lie to look better in the eyes of women or people in general and if you refuse to do so you are most likely not competitive enough to get the sex you want. It's completely acceptable to lie in society to achieve your goals and as long as you do it smartly people will appreciate you for this. That's when dating advices, PUA and stuff like this come in handy. Now if you think it's disgusting I agree with you but that doesn't change it's how it works. "That's how it works"=> "It's disgusting, just do it" = whatever you need to feel better about yourself
What I'm implying is that your body gives you contradicting needs and feelings about many things, especially women, sex and dating in general. You have to know what's going on and carefully balance your priorities to understand what to do, because knowing how to deal with women takes a great amount of work.
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If you just want to get laid, it's perfectly acceptable, even expected to have some liberties, especially if it's understood by the girl. She has no interest in what you really do/like, she just want some interesting stories, everyone ends up happy. It doesn't prohibit something more long term happen either, and pretty much unimportant in the grand scheme of things.
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On June 07 2013 00:09 corumjhaelen wrote:
Because if it is accurate, it is in a certain restricted sense and even if it 100% solid, it is not clear at all any dating advice should be given from this perspective.
what is restricted at all there??
there isnt a thing wrong with it at all and it isnt some pua garbage. it's really a matter of basic common sense. want the hot girl who is smart, has a good job and is kind? better be all of those qualities yourself to have a chance. why would you expect to talk to a girl that everyone else wants to speak with if you yourself arent much of a catch? there's nothing unfair about that. if anything is unfair, it is that you expect to talk to a hot girl for whatever reason
it works the other way too, and yes he is right that if you have those qualities you will get more attention
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On June 06 2013 22:22 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 22:13 BeyondCtrL wrote:On June 06 2013 21:43 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 21:38 Grumbels wrote:On June 06 2013 21:25 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 21:10 saddaromma wrote:On June 06 2013 21:00 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 20:51 saddaromma wrote:On June 06 2013 20:35 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 20:30 Killscreen wrote:
[quote]
Yes, you are comparing something tangible and quantifiable to something that isnt. Sexual marketplace value is just as tangible and quantifiable as StarCraft skill. Incidentally, the point I was making is that your perception of your value cannot change aspects of your value such as your financial status, physical stature, or social status. Sure, confidence helps, but simply believing you're good enough for a supermodel will not change the fact that she will not date an unemployed basement dweller with any amount of confidence. On top of that, too much confidence looks absolutely stupid if there is nothing to back it up. You're half right and half wrong. Man-value plays a lot when you want to pick up mainstream chicks. Be it in bar, at your office or in the street. You don't need something in common with her, and most-likely your relationship won't last long. And neither of you will be satisfied. Pretty sure thats not what we want. Afterall its not a pickup site. To get a 'real' girl-friend/lover/wife you don't need to concentrate on your value, just get into some minimum treshold. I guess having a simple college degree and mid-class job will suffice. The problem is finding the right one. A minimum threshold of value is required to attain the minimum threshold of any girl. However, if you want a girl with high value, you're going to need to be guy with equal or higher value. What do you mean by 'girl with high value', is it that girl requires high value or she has it? If latter then I guess you're kinda wrong. Princess can easily fall in love with a commoner (and vice-versa). By 'value', I'm referring to sexual marketplace value. A woman's sexual marketplace value is primarily determined by her physical attractiveness (which incorporates youth, fertility, fitness, etc.), and secondarily by traits such as intelligence, femininity, sexiness, and pleasing personality. To put it simply, if you want a beautiful, highly desirable woman who can have her pick of nearly any man she wants, then you had better be a highly desirable man yourself. Otherwise, why would she settle for you when she can do so much better? On June 06 2013 21:10 saddaromma wrote:Man-woman relationship is not economics. Its about feelings. Feelings determine human behavior. Economics studies human behavior. Asking what you have to offer to a famous actress or so isn't really fair. If sexual marketplace value is real then it follows a bell curve, which means that most people are average and relatively close to each other in value. That girl you liked at that party is 9/10 times not going to be out of your league, the only question then is circumstances and personal match. It is true that most people are average and relatively close in value. However, the girl you liked at that party is generally going to be above average in value, and in fact is likely to be one of the highest value girls that you met at the party. Also, most guys are not interested in learning how they can date/fuck/marry an average girl; rather, they want the best girl (or close to the best girl) they can get. Accordingly, those guys are going to want to learn how to maximize their own value. Women primarily look for healthy men. An all-round healthy man is fit, intelligent, attractive and well dressed. Fitness, intelligence and attractiveness are very closely linked since those attributes are some of the visually strongest indicators of health. Being able to fulfill at least 3 of the criteria will guarantee you a decent, if not better, chance to successfully engage women in almost any circumstance. False. Women primarily look for men of higher social status. Being physically fit, intelligent, attractive, and well-dressed can contribute to that higher social status, but not all of those are indicators of health, nor are they the only factors for social status. If health were the primary criteria for male attractiveness, then it would stand to reason that women would be most attracted to men in their late teens and early twenties, when men are at their healthiest. To the contrary, men in their late teens and early twenties tend to have low sexual marketplace value, while older men tend to have higher sexual marketplace value (e.g. women are more attracted to the latter, rather than the former). The reason for this is because older men have higher social status and therefore higher sexual marketplace value.
You are pulling stuff out of your ass here. The appearance of health does not deteriorate after you are 25. You can keep a very good looking body and physical shape up to your mid 40's. Attributes like intelligence and style mature and get better with age. Staying fit and healthy as you get older also signifies a strong immune system with good genes. Men of older age are also more attractive because not only do they posses all those qualities, but because they have also proven to be successful and experienced adults, the social status emerging from that is a consequence.
The simplest way to prove this: Imagine two men near their 40's, equal in wealth and social status, wearing the same clothes, yet different in health. One has a physically fit and healthy body and is intelligent; the other has below average fitness, intelligence and is sickly. The immediate evaluation by women is going to be obvious here. In fact the latter male might be picked by females that are only interested in raising their own status, however the overwhelming majority of women will find a man attractive with the former's qualities, at varying levels of inferior social status.
Women might go for status consciously, and entirely for that reason, but the question about whether the male is attractive is completely debatable. There are women who are not looking to raise their own status and consciously do not select men in that manner. Instinctively, however, women are attracted to the qualities I have mentioned.
Your health, physical, mental and otherwise is the primary attribute by which females deem males attractive, social status is secondary (an emergent property of having those attributes). It's not required to have all the aspects of health, as long as a male posses a good number he is always a good candidate, regardless of social status (with the exception of being social outcasts, homeless and the like).
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So, i finally managed to get my girlfriend to dump me today after work.
See 5 or 6 pages back. I had sent a mail to her on sunday, telling her that i was a bit too stressed when writing the last one and that i hope she is well. She was sick last weekend, read my mail on monday and answered in a very vague and defensive way, not speaking about any problems between us, just defending the circumstances of not answering. She also told me that she would love to write something to calm me, but that she did not really know what to say. So i wrote back again, that i am hoping she has recovered well but if she wouldn't mind, we should talk about our problems. Wednesday, she wrote that it might have been unfair to wait so long and that we should speak. I agreed. We met the evening for roleplaying (with other people) and today she mentioned that i looked awful yesterday and she hopes that this is not because of her. I just replied that we might want to talk like she already said. So, i have a date for this evening and then she will tell me that she doesn't like me that way. This is so romantic. Other people have to put that much effort into getting the first date, i have to do it to get the last.
There is still that quit noise in my head saying, maybe there is something to talk about, maybe we can fix this. But i am almost sure, that even although i like her enough to dedicate a huge part of my life to her, her empathy for other human beings is so low, that it would never work out. Maybe we get a state where we can play our characters with our other friends without it being weird anytime soon. Guess that's the best i can for. Anyway, time to get dumped. Work is over. This is ridiculous.
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On June 07 2013 01:07 BeyondCtrL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 22:22 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 22:13 BeyondCtrL wrote:On June 06 2013 21:43 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 21:38 Grumbels wrote:On June 06 2013 21:25 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 21:10 saddaromma wrote:On June 06 2013 21:00 sunprince wrote:On June 06 2013 20:51 saddaromma wrote:On June 06 2013 20:35 sunprince wrote:
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Sexual marketplace value is just as tangible and quantifiable as StarCraft skill.
Incidentally, the point I was making is that your perception of your value cannot change aspects of your value such as your financial status, physical stature, or social status. Sure, confidence helps, but simply believing you're good enough for a supermodel will not change the fact that she will not date an unemployed basement dweller with any amount of confidence. On top of that, too much confidence looks absolutely stupid if there is nothing to back it up. You're half right and half wrong. Man-value plays a lot when you want to pick up mainstream chicks. Be it in bar, at your office or in the street. You don't need something in common with her, and most-likely your relationship won't last long. And neither of you will be satisfied. Pretty sure thats not what we want. Afterall its not a pickup site. To get a 'real' girl-friend/lover/wife you don't need to concentrate on your value, just get into some minimum treshold. I guess having a simple college degree and mid-class job will suffice. The problem is finding the right one. A minimum threshold of value is required to attain the minimum threshold of any girl. However, if you want a girl with high value, you're going to need to be guy with equal or higher value. What do you mean by 'girl with high value', is it that girl requires high value or she has it? If latter then I guess you're kinda wrong. Princess can easily fall in love with a commoner (and vice-versa). By 'value', I'm referring to sexual marketplace value. A woman's sexual marketplace value is primarily determined by her physical attractiveness (which incorporates youth, fertility, fitness, etc.), and secondarily by traits such as intelligence, femininity, sexiness, and pleasing personality. To put it simply, if you want a beautiful, highly desirable woman who can have her pick of nearly any man she wants, then you had better be a highly desirable man yourself. Otherwise, why would she settle for you when she can do so much better? On June 06 2013 21:10 saddaromma wrote:Man-woman relationship is not economics. Its about feelings. Feelings determine human behavior. Economics studies human behavior. Asking what you have to offer to a famous actress or so isn't really fair. If sexual marketplace value is real then it follows a bell curve, which means that most people are average and relatively close to each other in value. That girl you liked at that party is 9/10 times not going to be out of your league, the only question then is circumstances and personal match. It is true that most people are average and relatively close in value. However, the girl you liked at that party is generally going to be above average in value, and in fact is likely to be one of the highest value girls that you met at the party. Also, most guys are not interested in learning how they can date/fuck/marry an average girl; rather, they want the best girl (or close to the best girl) they can get. Accordingly, those guys are going to want to learn how to maximize their own value. Women primarily look for healthy men. An all-round healthy man is fit, intelligent, attractive and well dressed. Fitness, intelligence and attractiveness are very closely linked since those attributes are some of the visually strongest indicators of health. Being able to fulfill at least 3 of the criteria will guarantee you a decent, if not better, chance to successfully engage women in almost any circumstance. False. Women primarily look for men of higher social status. Being physically fit, intelligent, attractive, and well-dressed can contribute to that higher social status, but not all of those are indicators of health, nor are they the only factors for social status. If health were the primary criteria for male attractiveness, then it would stand to reason that women would be most attracted to men in their late teens and early twenties, when men are at their healthiest. To the contrary, men in their late teens and early twenties tend to have low sexual marketplace value, while older men tend to have higher sexual marketplace value (e.g. women are more attracted to the latter, rather than the former). The reason for this is because older men have higher social status and therefore higher sexual marketplace value. You are pulling stuff out of your ass here. The appearance of health does not deteriorate after you are 25. You can keep a very good looking body and physical shape up to your mid 40's. Attributes like intelligence and style mature and get better with age. Staying fit and healthy as you get older also signifies a strong immune system with good genes. Men of older age are also more attractive because not only do they posses all those qualities, but because they have also proven to be successful and experienced adults, the social status emerging from that is a consequence. The simplest way to prove this: Imagine two men near their 40's, equal in wealth and social status, wearing the same clothes, yet different in health. One has a physically fit and healthy body and is intelligent; the other has below average fitness, intelligence and is sickly. The immediate evaluation by women is going to be obvious here. In fact the latter male might be picked by females that are only interested in raising their own status, however the overwhelming majority of women will find a man attractive with the former's qualities, at varying levels of inferior social status. Women might go for status consciously, and entirely for that reason, but the question about whether the male is attractive is completely debatable. There are women who are not looking to raise their own status and consciously do not select men in that manner. Instinctively, however, women are attracted to the qualities I have mentioned. Your health, physical, mental and otherwise is the primary attribute by which females deem males attractive, social status is secondary (an emergent property of having those attributes). It's not required to have all the aspects of health, as long as a male posses a good number he is always a good candidate, regardless of social status (with the exception of being social outcasts, homeless and the like).
Your comparison is terrible. Of course "physically fit, healthy body and intelligent" is more attractive than "below average fitness, intelligence and is sickly". You're setting three positive traits against three negative ones. We're talking about which positive trait is more important, so you are missing the mark by several miles.
A better comparison is: imagine two men in their 40s. One is completely healthy, can do handstands and is expected to live until age 110, but he doesn't have that many friends, has some money problems and is easily talked down by others. The other has a very large social circle which always laughs at all his jokes, he has a lot of money and people defer to his opinion. But on the other hand he visits the doctor a few times per year, smokes, and can't bench anything close to his own body weight. Everything else between these two guys is equal.
Who do you think gets more female attention?
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Hi guys! I have been chatting with a beautiful girl lately. She doesn't live in the same city as I do, but close. So we've been having a really good time, but I would really like to meet her personally. I've mentioned this to her once, but she said "I would like to get to know you better". I said fine, and continued chatting. It's been a week and my feeling is that she sees me as a friend (doh) . I mean she talks about guys, though not like "I really like this guy and would love to date him" and so on, but she tells a lot about a guy that she had fancied and how he had started to like other girls and this really hurts her. I feel like she still has feelings towards him. I doubt I could change her feelings until I meet her personally. This weekend there is a concert series here and I thought this would be a great opportunity to meet her. What do you guys think? What should I say to her? Or it's a lost cause and I'm stuck in the friendzone?
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On June 07 2013 03:21 AmOkk000 wrote:
Hi guys! I have been chatting with a beautiful girl lately. She doesn't live in the same city as I do, but close. So we've been having a really good time, but I would really like to meet her personally. I've mentioned this to her once, but she said "I would like to get to know you better". I said fine, and continued chatting. It's been a week and my feeling is that she sees me as a friend (doh) . I mean she talks about guys, though not like "I really like this guy and would love to date him" and so on, but she tells a lot about a guy that she had fancied and how he had started to like other girls and this really hurts her. I feel like she still has feelings towards him. I doubt I could change her feelings until I meet her personally. This weekend there is a concert series here and I thought this would be a great opportunity to meet her. What do you guys think? What should I say to her? Or it's a lost cause and I'm stuck in the friendzone?
I say this from a polyamorous perspective but I believe it applies to anyone: don't try to change her feelings for that guy, try to make her have feelings for you. They aren't mutually exclusive.
If she hasn't given you the friendzone speech yet, just ask her out and be clear that it is a date. She'll either say yes (good for you), or she'll say no because you're such good friends (bummer, find a new one) or she'll say no because she has other plans or otherwise cannot make it (there's still a chance for you).
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On June 07 2013 04:12 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 03:21 AmOkk000 wrote:
Hi guys! I have been chatting with a beautiful girl lately. She doesn't live in the same city as I do, but close. So we've been having a really good time, but I would really like to meet her personally. I've mentioned this to her once, but she said "I would like to get to know you better". I said fine, and continued chatting. It's been a week and my feeling is that she sees me as a friend (doh) . I mean she talks about guys, though not like "I really like this guy and would love to date him" and so on, but she tells a lot about a guy that she had fancied and how he had started to like other girls and this really hurts her. I feel like she still has feelings towards him. I doubt I could change her feelings until I meet her personally. This weekend there is a concert series here and I thought this would be a great opportunity to meet her. What do you guys think? What should I say to her? Or it's a lost cause and I'm stuck in the friendzone? I say this from a polyamorous perspective but I believe it applies to anyone: don't try to change her feelings for that guy, try to make her have feelings for you. They aren't mutually exclusive. If she hasn't given you the friendzone speech yet, just ask her out and be clear that it is a date. She'll either say yes (good for you), or she'll say no because you're such good friends (bummer, find a new one) or she'll say no because she has other plans or otherwise cannot make it (there's still a chance for you).
The thing is, I just grew out of my nerdy era, and started realizing that sc2 won't magically create me gfs. So this girl is the first I really started to get to know and wouldn't like to lose her, so not just 'find a new one' :D She, fortunately hasn't given me the friendzone speech yet (hope she never will) ^^ . The question is, whether I should just chat with her and go into maybe more personal topics until I really know her, or ask her out. The smart one would most probably be the latter one.
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On June 06 2013 20:30 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 19:48 Grumbels wrote: - after all you don't see PUA brag about "I met a wonderful girl last night", but rather it's "I met a HB10 last night after superb negging and kino" which immediately makes me wonder how the girl would enjoy being described like this. You should read some actual field reports instead of making stuff up. I don't agree with PUAs on a number of key issues, but this is a bit of a mischaracterization.
http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/q0rjp/fr_my_first_threesome_including_structure/ (every second post is like that)
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EPT
