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On October 06 2011 01:08 Hairy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 00:29 The Black wrote:Simply put, are the desires so big that they can and will completely control your actions at a point or not? Yes. And I can say with certainty that with the opportunity, I will do it, even if we are married already. Of course I will do it in such a way that she will NEVER know and our relationship will NEVER be affected by it. ... Really? I find your lack of self control.... pitiful. It's natural to find other people attractive. It's also normal to imagine what it might be like to sleep with that person; what they might look like naked; what the experience might be like. But you should have no desire to actually want that experience to happen, nevermind to actually intentionally seek it out. No matter how careful you think you will be, she will find out (or at least suspect), and your relationship will be in jeapordy. Talking about entering a marriage, while simultaneously planning to go behind her back to sleep with other people, is preposterous. You would destroy her if she found out. Not only that, but you would shame and embarass not only her but her entire family - the reason for a divorce would not be a secret. You say you care for her, yet you clearly do not care enough to resist being a filthy manslut.
"manslut" LOL. Wait a bit. Don't take it too personally folks, we are here to discuss, and not to fight or to judge others.
Does every man here agree? If you are married, you should NEVER be with another woman? Even if, for the purpose of argument, it never interferes with your relationship? Or that IF you have found THE WOMAN, you will not have a desire to be with any other woman. I'm NOT trying to be a pig, I'm just trying to understand this primal feeling at an important crossroads in my life.
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I'm trying to be a pig, I'm just trying to understand this primal feeling at an important crossroads in my life.
You made a typo there good sir. I think it should read: "I'm not trying to be a pig". 
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Ive been married for 2 years, gonna be 3 in february. Our baby is due at the end of december. I still love my wife the same as I did when I met her. Yes I am "aware" of all the hotties out there. But its a good thing to not look too longingly at other women. Besides, I dont think Id ever find someone who is a better match for myself than her. Even when we have disagreements I think of how stupid it would be not having an alternate opinion and her agreeing with me on every subject.
But.....
if your not comfortable with it than dont do it. Period.
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Umm where do i start
First - doesn't really matter how long you are dating and how long you are living together.
I'm married for 3 years, have a daughter of 2 years old and i'm happy with how everything's going so far.
I decided to marry my wife after 2 months of dating her and we lived 3 months before the actual marriage.
If you think this is crazy - you have no idea. The reason why i could do so and why it worked - is that:
- i was really ready to start up the family
- my lady was really ready to start a family with ME
- it is important to be open and discuss in advance your opinion on the adult life like children, parents, travelling, job career, place of living etc...
- in the end if this is the right person for you - you are totally fine
i play sc:bw since 2000, got married in 2008, now play sc2 when i feel like playing, sometimes like 30 games in a row with total responsibility for my home and my little daughter.
Cheers.
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On October 06 2011 01:46 The Black wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 01:08 Hairy wrote:On October 06 2011 00:29 The Black wrote:Simply put, are the desires so big that they can and will completely control your actions at a point or not? Yes. And I can say with certainty that with the opportunity, I will do it, even if we are married already. Of course I will do it in such a way that she will NEVER know and our relationship will NEVER be affected by it. ... Really? I find your lack of self control.... pitiful. It's natural to find other people attractive. It's also normal to imagine what it might be like to sleep with that person; what they might look like naked; what the experience might be like. But you should have no desire to actually want that experience to happen, nevermind to actually intentionally seek it out. No matter how careful you think you will be, she will find out (or at least suspect), and your relationship will be in jeapordy. Talking about entering a marriage, while simultaneously planning to go behind her back to sleep with other people, is preposterous. You would destroy her if she found out. Not only that, but you would shame and embarass not only her but her entire family - the reason for a divorce would not be a secret. You say you care for her, yet you clearly do not care enough to resist being a filthy manslut. "manslut" LOL. Wait a bit. Don't take it too personally folks, we are here to discuss, and not to fight or to judge others. Does every man here agree? If you are married, you should NEVER be with another woman? Even if, for the purpose of argument, it never interferes with your relationship? Or that IF you have found THE WOMAN, you will not have a desire to be with any other woman. I'm trying to be a pig, I'm just trying to understand this primal feeling at an important crossroads in my life.
In reality, it all depends upon what you and your wife agree to do. If sex outside of the marriage is acceptable and openly acknowledged as such beforehand, then it's ok. Just make sure that you and your wife have a frank and open discussion about it so that the groundrules are clearly set.
That said, I will say this: open relationships are more prone to breaking down because of the stress that is placed upon the trust component of the relationship. If you plan on having children, its gets even more complicated and difficult. I'd recommend keeping it monogamous, but it's up to you.
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I guess vows mean absolutely shit here in the states. Divorce rate is above 50%, is it not? 
People who cheat on their spouses are nothing but scum. If you are going to cheat, why the fuck get married in the first place? You just don't have the decency and morals to tell your spouse you are unhappy. Scum.
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On October 06 2011 01:46 The Black wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 01:08 Hairy wrote:On October 06 2011 00:29 The Black wrote:Simply put, are the desires so big that they can and will completely control your actions at a point or not? Yes. And I can say with certainty that with the opportunity, I will do it, even if we are married already. Of course I will do it in such a way that she will NEVER know and our relationship will NEVER be affected by it. ... Really? I find your lack of self control.... pitiful. It's natural to find other people attractive. It's also normal to imagine what it might be like to sleep with that person; what they might look like naked; what the experience might be like. But you should have no desire to actually want that experience to happen, nevermind to actually intentionally seek it out. No matter how careful you think you will be, she will find out (or at least suspect), and your relationship will be in jeapordy. Talking about entering a marriage, while simultaneously planning to go behind her back to sleep with other people, is preposterous. You would destroy her if she found out. Not only that, but you would shame and embarass not only her but her entire family - the reason for a divorce would not be a secret. You say you care for her, yet you clearly do not care enough to resist being a filthy manslut. "manslut" LOL. Wait a bit. Don't take it too personally folks, we are here to discuss, and not to fight or to judge others. Does every man here agree? If you are married, you should NEVER be with another woman? Even if, for the purpose of argument, it never interferes with your relationship? Or that IF you have found THE WOMAN, you will not have a desire to be with any other woman. I'm trying to be a pig, I'm just trying to understand this primal feeling at an important crossroads in my life.
I guess I'll switch this around and ask what it is that is keeping you with her? I seems rather obvious to me that you shouldn't marry her. Why not just break up with her and start banging all the chicks you can instead of wondering? Not that it's what I'd do, but just because I can tell you that your marriage will be a lie so might as well drop the pretense and just do what you REALLY want.
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On October 06 2011 01:46 The Black wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 01:08 Hairy wrote:On October 06 2011 00:29 The Black wrote:Simply put, are the desires so big that they can and will completely control your actions at a point or not? Yes. And I can say with certainty that with the opportunity, I will do it, even if we are married already. Of course I will do it in such a way that she will NEVER know and our relationship will NEVER be affected by it. ... Really? I find your lack of self control.... pitiful. It's natural to find other people attractive. It's also normal to imagine what it might be like to sleep with that person; what they might look like naked; what the experience might be like. But you should have no desire to actually want that experience to happen, nevermind to actually intentionally seek it out. No matter how careful you think you will be, she will find out (or at least suspect), and your relationship will be in jeapordy. Talking about entering a marriage, while simultaneously planning to go behind her back to sleep with other people, is preposterous. You would destroy her if she found out. Not only that, but you would shame and embarass not only her but her entire family - the reason for a divorce would not be a secret. You say you care for her, yet you clearly do not care enough to resist being a filthy manslut. "manslut" LOL. Wait a bit. Don't take it too personally folks, we are here to discuss, and not to fight or to judge others. Does every man here agree? If you are married, you should NEVER be with another woman? Even if, for the purpose of argument, it never interferes with your relationship? Or that IF you have found THE WOMAN, you will not have a desire to be with any other woman. I'm trying to be a pig, I'm just trying to understand this primal feeling at an important crossroads in my life.
Umm, yeah, it's not conducive to a healthy family. You can't claim that it will never be discovered. If you're stupid enough to cheat on someone you've made a life-long commitment to, you're stupid enough to leave evidence and get caught. And if you really care about them, the guilt will tear you up inside.
I never understood people's propensity for cheating. Aren't we all 100% completely aware of how our testosterone level controls our sexual behaviour? Just walk away and crack one off like the rest of us. Jesus.
There's no shame in masturbation, even if you're in a committed relationship. It's just an itch that needs scratching. Nothing more.
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Look I am not a religious person myself, but do you find how often people use Jesus' name for no apparent reason? For me, it just reflects your moral values when using such blasphemous language.
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On October 06 2011 03:29 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 01:46 The Black wrote:On October 06 2011 01:08 Hairy wrote:On October 06 2011 00:29 The Black wrote:Simply put, are the desires so big that they can and will completely control your actions at a point or not? Yes. And I can say with certainty that with the opportunity, I will do it, even if we are married already. Of course I will do it in such a way that she will NEVER know and our relationship will NEVER be affected by it. ... Really? I find your lack of self control.... pitiful. It's natural to find other people attractive. It's also normal to imagine what it might be like to sleep with that person; what they might look like naked; what the experience might be like. But you should have no desire to actually want that experience to happen, nevermind to actually intentionally seek it out. No matter how careful you think you will be, she will find out (or at least suspect), and your relationship will be in jeapordy. Talking about entering a marriage, while simultaneously planning to go behind her back to sleep with other people, is preposterous. You would destroy her if she found out. Not only that, but you would shame and embarass not only her but her entire family - the reason for a divorce would not be a secret. You say you care for her, yet you clearly do not care enough to resist being a filthy manslut. "manslut" LOL. Wait a bit. Don't take it too personally folks, we are here to discuss, and not to fight or to judge others. Does every man here agree? If you are married, you should NEVER be with another woman? Even if, for the purpose of argument, it never interferes with your relationship? Or that IF you have found THE WOMAN, you will not have a desire to be with any other woman. I'm trying to be a pig, I'm just trying to understand this primal feeling at an important crossroads in my life. Umm, yeah, it's not conducive to a healthy family. You can't claim that it will never be discovered. If you're stupid enough to cheat on someone you've made a life-long commitment to, you're stupid enough to leave evidence and get caught. And if you really care about them, the guilt will tear you up inside. I never understood people's propensity for cheating. Aren't we all 100% completely aware of how our testosterone level controls our sexual behaviour? Just walk away and crack one off like the rest of us. Jesus. There's no shame in masturbation, even if you're in a committed relationship. It's just an itch that needs scratching. Nothing more.
People's propensity for cheating is the same propensity that allows their credit card bills to run up to the point that they are in life long debt because of interest, Impusivity. They do, then think about it later. It also doesn't help that our primordial instincts for males is to have sex with just about every woman we can get our hands on. The fact of the matter is that someone who cheats is going to leave evidence because cheating is an impulsive thing much more so than a planned event. The only type of planned cheating is usually by someone who wants to be caught anyways or exact revenge in both cases its meant to be transparent anyways.
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On October 06 2011 00:29 The Black wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 00:14 Gnight wrote:On October 06 2011 00:00 The Black wrote:On October 05 2011 23:50 wingweaver415 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:38 The Black wrote:On October 05 2011 23:15 rogzardo wrote:
Probably not the best idea to get married and already be planning to cheat on her. Just saying. You understood me perfectly. Does it still count as cheating if I still love here and commit to here forever? Now I'm beginning to think your a troll.... No you don't understand me. Let me ask this question among men here, is it just me or is it natural to desire sex with beautiful women, many of them. That among the core issues I tried to bring up in the OP, other than of course the act of marriage. You did a poor job at bringing this subject up at your OP to be honest. xD I will reply, even though I am not a guy, because this goes beyond just being a guy. After all, wheter you'r a guy or a woman, we both have feelings and both have lust and desires. Wheter that is for a guy or a woman doesn't really matter in this case in my eyes. Now onto what you are asking, yes and no. I can't speak for every person out there obviously, but I do believe that having thoughts/desires about having sex with beautiful women (or men for that matter) isn't unnatural, wheter you are in a relationship or not. Though to what extent this desire goes is what matters here, you have put this rather short and simple which doesn't give anyone here much insight to what extent you really mean. After all, having the desire or thought about having sex with beautiful women/men doesn't really sound alien to anyone in these forums I do believe. But is this desire so big that you feel like you "have" to give in to it, no matter wheter you'r in a relationship or not? Or is this desire just something that comes up now and then when you see/hear something that reminds you of such a matter and lingers in your head for a while? Simply put, are the desires so big that they can and will completely control your actions at a point or not? If not then I doubt one can call such desires unnatural, but if it's something you can't ignore even though you love/commited completely to one person, then one can say it's "unnatural" I do believe. (by "society standards") In the end though, I can't look inside other people's heads and thus can't call on what's natural or what not. And for that matter, what's natural? That's all just a opinion formed by each person for themselves, often influenced by society though, so my view on this can differ greatly compared to other posters here. ^ ^ Oh, a lady member of TL. Suddenly I feel like fixing my tie and modulating my voice Well regarding the OP, I wanted to be subtle about it, until the discussion evolves to it. Show nested quote +Simply put, are the desires so big that they can and will completely control your actions at a point or not? Yes. And I can say with certainty that with the opportunity, I will do it, even if we are married already. Of course I will do it in such a way that she will NEVER know and our relationship will NEVER be affected by it.
Uh, it's less of a "getting caught" issue, and more of an ethical issue. I'm sure I could steal money from old ladies and they'd never know about it, and hey they'd probably never even miss it! So why not?
That's right, it's unethical. Downright scumbag-ish in fact. How can you possibly want to commit an (arguably worse) slight against a girl you supposedly love, all the while justifying it with a "what she doesn't know won't hurt her!" attitude? Mind boggling :p
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On October 06 2011 01:52 NeThZOR wrote:Show nested quote +
I'm trying to be a pig, I'm just trying to understand this primal feeling at an important crossroads in my life.
You made a typo there good sir. I think it should read: "I'm not trying to be a pig".
What the... at the worst possible moment to miss it too. lol. Thanks
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On October 06 2011 00:29 The Black wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 00:14 Gnight wrote:On October 06 2011 00:00 The Black wrote:On October 05 2011 23:50 wingweaver415 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:38 The Black wrote:On October 05 2011 23:15 rogzardo wrote:
Probably not the best idea to get married and already be planning to cheat on her. Just saying. You understood me perfectly. Does it still count as cheating if I still love here and commit to here forever? Now I'm beginning to think your a troll.... No you don't understand me. Let me ask this question among men here, is it just me or is it natural to desire sex with beautiful women, many of them. That among the core issues I tried to bring up in the OP, other than of course the act of marriage. You did a poor job at bringing this subject up at your OP to be honest. xD I will reply, even though I am not a guy, because this goes beyond just being a guy. After all, wheter you'r a guy or a woman, we both have feelings and both have lust and desires. Wheter that is for a guy or a woman doesn't really matter in this case in my eyes. Now onto what you are asking, yes and no. I can't speak for every person out there obviously, but I do believe that having thoughts/desires about having sex with beautiful women (or men for that matter) isn't unnatural, wheter you are in a relationship or not. Though to what extent this desire goes is what matters here, you have put this rather short and simple which doesn't give anyone here much insight to what extent you really mean. After all, having the desire or thought about having sex with beautiful women/men doesn't really sound alien to anyone in these forums I do believe. But is this desire so big that you feel like you "have" to give in to it, no matter wheter you'r in a relationship or not? Or is this desire just something that comes up now and then when you see/hear something that reminds you of such a matter and lingers in your head for a while? Simply put, are the desires so big that they can and will completely control your actions at a point or not? If not then I doubt one can call such desires unnatural, but if it's something you can't ignore even though you love/commited completely to one person, then one can say it's "unnatural" I do believe. (by "society standards") In the end though, I can't look inside other people's heads and thus can't call on what's natural or what not. And for that matter, what's natural? That's all just a opinion formed by each person for themselves, often influenced by society though, so my view on this can differ greatly compared to other posters here. ^ ^ Oh, a lady member of TL. Suddenly I feel like fixing my tie and modulating my voice Well regarding the OP, I wanted to be subtle about it, until the discussion evolves to it. Show nested quote +Simply put, are the desires so big that they can and will completely control your actions at a point or not? Yes. And I can say with certainty that with the opportunity, I will do it, even if we are married already. Of course I will do it in such a way that she will NEVER know and our relationship will NEVER be affected by it. Am I with the wrong company? Why do I think this is ok, even normal. For me, it's not even a question of desire and controlling it. It's about how to handle this desire well (you know what I mean). Beyond all this, I can say that I love her and imagine life and a family with her, as these are simply... transgressions, nothing more. Gentlemen, speak up please. Am I alone in this thought???
sorry my man, after reading this... you should never get married.
the truth is out there
and she will find out
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On October 06 2011 01:46 The Black wrote:
Does every man here agree? If you are married, you should NEVER be with another woman? Even if, for the purpose of argument, it never interferes with your relationship?
The very fact you think you could screw around, keep it from your wife, and your relationship would be unaffected demonstrates that you don't have a fucking clue what a relationship worth marrying for actually is.
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On October 06 2011 03:36 NeThZOR wrote:
Look I am not a religious person myself, but do you find how often people use Jesus' name for no apparent reason? For me, it just reflects your moral values when using such blasphemous language.
Thanks for the good laugh.
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Well I shall add my 2 cents.
First of all, I am young (ish) 18 years old 19 in 19 days.
I have been in a relationship for just over a year now with a girl whose ideal life would be to get married and have children and be a kept woman, basically.
I personally do not believe in marriage anymore. My own mother being my primary reason and I will not say anymore on the subject as I think it would be a little off topic.
However, the way I see it, as was said in one of the first posts. If you two REALLY love one another, why should you need to get married?
The reasons women HONESTLY want it is obvious to me at least now in my infinite wisdom of nearly 19 years of age 
They don't like being shown up by their friends and if you are married they consider it a one up.
Also they like a big engagement ring, I cannot recall the amount of times I have seen women comparing theirs to my mothers. It is another one up. (Here is the point where I realise it leaves a bitter taste to call her that)
They want "THE WEDDING" the white dress, the church (even if they aren't religious), the vows (which mean nothing to them most of the time after the ceremony. Has anyone here actually ever seen a married woman who has vowed "to honour and obey" actually agree that they still want to obey their life partner/husband? Perhaps not) This is a big party centralised around THEM and another one up.
I think you will find it is from a woman's point of view a status symbol, like many other things (designer clothes? < perhaps a bad example I hope my point comes across) do they really NEED these things? No they just want to show that they are in some ways better than their "friends".
Also women like to say it would make me "more secure". I believe this shows the vindictive nature of people. What these women are really saying is "I can fuck him financially if he dare upset me" and I will NOT accept anyone disagreeing with the fact that women in court especially divorce courts are favoured. In England we have no prenuptial agreements and I know that EVERY man who has been divorced that I have come across has far less than half of what it is he started with.
I will make this seem less scorned young child taking it out with some research to back it up.
"to be happy you need to think yourself better off than those around you."
It is a phenomenon called 'relative comparisons'.
I know this to be a fact because you can watch endless movies/tv shows whatever of people personifying the feelings of a single woman jealous of all her married friends, but no I am not going to list them.
On the other hand I also agree that there are those women (99.999% of which are now over 50) who believe what they are saying when they say "till death do us part" and they are the ones to look out for, but then again they will be the ones who if you explain your worries to will never push you into it to start with.
tl/dr :
Women are jealous and vindictive, watch out.
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On October 06 2011 03:40 NikonTC wrote:
Uh, it's less of a "getting caught" issue, and more of an ethical issue. I'm sure I could steal money from old ladies and they'd never know about it, and hey they'd probably never even miss it! So why not?
No. Unfortunately that's bad logic. Let's stay on course please
That's right, it's unethical. Downright scumbag-ish in fact. How can you possibly want to commit an (arguably worse) slight against a girl you supposedly love, all the while justifying it with a "what she doesn't know won't hurt her!" attitude? Mind boggling :p
Really is it that bad? I'll be brutally honest. Why will I do it? Sex, and the Conquest! Do I feel bad about it? No. Damn, maybe I was not brought up correctly. But I'm still convinced this is not an anomaly, especially among men. Deep inside everyone wants to do it, and they only restrain it due to certain social expectations and consequences to the relationship.
I don't buy this "love" drama/thing. If I love the woman I'm going to be having sex with outside marriage, then perhaps I should marry her. But no. It's just a mere transgression. An itch.
On the bigger picture, do married men tell this themselves like "Ok I will get married now and will do it with no one else other than my wife" and commit to it, or does it come naturally with the decision to get marries?
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On October 06 2011 04:02 NorNor wrote:Well I shall add my 2 cents. First of all, I am young (ish) 18 years old 19 in 19 days. I have been in a relationship for just over a year now with a girl whose ideal life would be to get married and have children and be a kept woman, basically. I personally do not believe in marriage anymore. My own mother being my primary reason and I will not say anymore on the subject as I think it would be a little off topic. However, the way I see it, as was said in one of the first posts. If you two REALLY love one another, why should you need to get married? The reasons women HONESTLY want it is obvious to me at least now in my infinite wisdom of nearly 19 years of age They don't like being shown up by their friends and if you are married they consider it a one up. Also they like a big engagement ring, I cannot recall the amount of times I have seen women comparing theirs to my mothers. It is another one up. (Here is the point where I realise it leaves a bitter taste to call her that) They want "THE WEDDING" the white dress, the church (even if they aren't religious), the vows (which mean nothing to them most of the time after the ceremony. Has anyone here actually ever seen a married woman who has vowed "to honour and obey" actually agree that they still want to obey their life partner/husband? Perhaps not) This is a big party centralised around THEM and another one up. I think you will find it is from a woman's point of view a status symbol, like many other things (designer clothes? < perhaps a bad example I hope my point comes across) do they really NEED these things? No they just want to show that they are in some ways better than their "friends". Also women like to say it would make me "more secure". I believe this shows the vindictive nature of people. What these women are really saying is "I can fuck him financially if he dare upset me" and I will NOT accept anyone disagreeing with the fact that women in court especially divorce courts are favoured. In England we have no prenuptial agreements and I know that EVERY man who has been divorced that I have come across has far less than half of what it is he started with. I will make this seem less scorned young child taking it out with some research to back it up. "to be happy you need to think yourself better off than those around you." It is a phenomenon called 'relative comparisons'. I know this to be a fact because you can watch endless movies/tv shows whatever of people personifying the feelings of a single woman jealous of all her married friends, but no I am not going to list them. On the other hand I also agree that there are those women (99.999% of which are now over 50) who believe what they are saying when they say "till death do us part" and they are the ones to look out for, but then again they will be the ones who if you explain your worries to will never push you into it to start with. tl/dr : Women are jealous and vindictive, watch out.
This is not a healthy perspective with which to enter adulthood, my friend
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On October 06 2011 03:58 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 03:36 NeThZOR wrote:
Look I am not a religious person myself, but do you find how often people use Jesus' name for no apparent reason? For me, it just reflects your moral values when using such blasphemous language. Thanks for the good laugh.
Just look at that attitude.
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On October 06 2011 04:07 NeThZOR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 03:58 Bibdy wrote:On October 06 2011 03:36 NeThZOR wrote:
Look I am not a religious person myself, but do you find how often people use Jesus' name for no apparent reason? For me, it just reflects your moral values when using such blasphemous language. Thanks for the good laugh. Just look at that attitude.
My attitude is that if someone is going to get offended at my usage of a slang term for incredulity, it says a lot more about their sensitivity than my insensitivity. What does one more person getting offended at something utterly trivial and banal in the world mean to me? Get over yourself. Your opinion means as much to me, as mine does to you.
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EPT
