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On October 05 2011 22:26 NikonTC wrote:
You're missing my point I think, I'm perfectly happy with "promising" myself to someone I care about, my question was why do I have to do it using a word, a band of metal, and a priest of a religion I don't even follow?
In the US, at least, there are several "marriage" style ceremonies that are both religious and non-religious that are both legally binding and non-legally binding. The idea is to allow the celebratory parts of the marriage without including some of the legal parts.
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I preferred your Soulmerge line before the edit. It made marriage sound like becoming an archon.
Sure there are sacrifices, you lose your cloaking/psionic storm, but the shield gain more than makes up for it.
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
I have been married for 3 years now and I have come to the conclusion that overall this was a pretty even trade-off between comfort of living and personal freedom. Sometimes you wish you could be alone, sometimes you are extremely happy that your wife is always with you. However my wife is an extremely loyal and tolerant person, and that is what makes it work. If she were closer to the nagging/manipulative or the useless/glamour type I would have quit this relationship long ago.
Before you get married, you both need to think about the habits or the personality traits of your partner that annoy you. If there is something like that, but you keep ignoring it or just lying to yourself about it, it will get worse with each year of living together.
With regards to another women, it's not really a big problem. You just have to realise that you don't actually want to spend time with other women, you just want to be able to do that. There really is nothing that they can give you that your wife cannot, but not the other way around.
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Being married has indeed benefits to it, not 100% clear to what that exactly translates to in each part of the world, but I do believe one get's more "support" from the goverment when one is married compared to living together as a couple.
So for that matter one can get married, the difference in the "support" one get's is pretty big from what I have heard. Other reasons to get married is for the promise one makes in marriage, to spend the rest of your life with your other half is a big promise. And while one can make this promise without the form of marriage, it's the fact that marriage is done through church and/or the goverment that most people find the promise having more meaning to it. It's most likely in most people's eyes a bigger show of commitment then just promosing you will forever stay by their side on the couch.
Further more, marriage can also be done because of religious reasons, enough people out there that still believe in no sex after marriage for example. Or just are religious and like to get married because they believe in that.
Now on to my personal view, I hate marriage. I got nothing against people who do get married, after all it's up to everyone to make that call for themselves, not me to do so or judge upon it. But I believe if one truly loves a other, then a marriage isn't needed to bind them together for the rest of their lives. Of course, it's not bad to do so and if you do it then that doesn't mean the love isn't there or big enough to survive, but I don't feel it as a need.
My girlfriend on the other hand thinks otherwise, I have known her almost my whole life (together now for just over 3 years) and I know she loves to get married. She isn't super crazy about getting married or anything, she just likes to get married. I love her and for this I have put aside my own opinion about marriage and asked her to marry, because that's what she loves and when she is happy, I am. Even so, I asked her twice so far and both times she said no. She thinks in the same manner as me, she loves me and knows I hate marriage and for that reason refuses to marry me as long as I hate marriage.
Right now I have no doubts that I will ask her once again in the near future and again and again. Even though I am pretty sure she will say no each of those times, for me. Still I will keep asking her as a show that I love her enough to put aside my own wishes and fulfill hers. Wheter one day she will finally say yes to me or not I don't know, somewhere I hope she does and somewhere I hope she doesn't. I guess till she says yes, I will keep asking her, which may be till the end of our lives together.
As for you The Black, I can't say much on what you should/need to do in the situation you'r in. As you put it, she likes to get married to you, which in turn you aren't too sure about. You shouldn't worry too much about having doubts in what form that may be, it's better to question yourself now then after, really. I think the best way to put it is, "time will tell". Don't rush things, after all you are together for about 2 years, that is quite something, but not super long in my eyes.
I am sure that within the near future you will realise that the worries/doubts you had about marriage either fade away at the thought of actually getting married with your loved one or not. I know that sounds easy and perhaps even silly, but all I can say is, you will know what you want as long as you give yourself time to listen to both your heart and mind. (cheesy advice ftw. xD)
Also, sorta a sidenote, a guy (asuming you'r a guy.) doesn't have to propose to a woman. It's rather silly to see a woman really having the need for a guy to propose and pushing the subject of getting married over and over onto the guy's mind instead of asking herself. You can always raise this subject to her whenever she raises getting married, though do note that you do need to be careful about how you raise this. Alot of women out there are still rather, traditional about this and don't like the idea of hearing that they themselves perhaps should propose instead of the guy.
No idea if this was of any help at all. >.<
Ps, If I happen to have offended/insulted any married people out there, my deepest apologies, it wasn't my intention nor meaning to do so.
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On October 05 2011 21:28 The Black wrote:
Who among TL here are married already? How is married life so far? And who are in the same process as I am? It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts.
Married at 23. My wife and I were friends for three years, and it ended up that we went from friends to "lets get married" (and I mean friends, not "friends with benefits") - totally skipped the 'dating' relationship. No regrets, and 'married life' is great (oh, and 'government benefits' weren't a factor... I don't know why people keep bringing them up).
...Never did get cold feet either, or feelings of "what if" or "look at all these women".
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I've been with my girlfriend for well over 8 years, we've been living together for 4 years now. All I can say is everyday is a compromised. It's not a matter of love, it's more subjective.
Even though we both are extrememly busy individuals, we still find times to argue with one another through precious windows of time that we have. Think about marriage carefully; most people don't commit until they are in there 30s.
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Marriage exists currently so women can cheat on men and then legally rob them of half their belongings.
I mean, 4 T3H LOVEEE1!1!!1
On topic:
If you do get married, make sure to set up a bank account in your own name. A few of my friends did the "together forever" crap, put their money in a shared account with their wives, and then were left penniless when their wives decided to get a divorce.
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Ok these are my thoughts:
Legal benefits - understood and agree
Life stability - ok I get it
Commitment - Clear
Problem is, is it not natural for a man to really go hunting. It's not even about the grass being greener on the other side. It's about pleasure, or, forgive me, conquest! Maybe one can get married and just secretly be "hunting" on the sides, but still be in love and committed to the marriage. Is that such a bastardly thought? Perhaps there will be such a woman in time that will tame a man, right?
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I just want to add some information that is lacking on financial disadvantages/advantages of marriage.
I'm no expert, but two quick google searches confirmed my suspicions.
I was always under the impression that the combined income of both married individuals could put you in a higher tax bracket.
Here are two links to support that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_penalty
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/are-tax-rates-higher-if-you-get-married.aspx
Then again, there ARE financial benefits to being married:
-Save money on car insurance
-Raise your credit score
-Get favorable loan offers
-Share employer benefits (healthcare)
-Financial stability
http://money.msn.com/family-money/6-financial-benefits-of-marriage-investopedia.aspx
Being in a higher tax bracket may be worth the benefits.
Although I'm certain is varies greatly.
Edit: More on topic:
I agree with Kirdies advice. I know too many people that get married at a young age, after being together for SHORT periods of time. Which, in my book is 1-2 years.
And what do you know, the divorce, or at least serious relationship problems, comes after, in too many cases.
Also, having children brought into a dysfunctional marriage, will only damage the child. A broken home(divorce) will do so even more; although not in all cases.
This is a decision that shouldn't be made lightly.
On October 05 2011 21:34 kirdie wrote:
I think 2 or 3 years is not enough, 5 years is the best time I think.
Reason being that many relationships end after 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 years but if you are together for 5 years I think it can be assumed that it holds. But even then I have a friend that married after 5 and 1 year after that they divorced but you can never be sure...
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On October 05 2011 21:52 NikonTC wrote:
A more interesting debate in my mind is: Why do people NEED to get married these days?
The sanctity of marriage is out the window completely, along with all religious reasons for it. So other than the chance to have a big party and a fuss made of the couple, why to they bother to get married at all? If your relationship is such that you NEED to have some form of "commitment" ceremony to bind yourselves together, then I'd question whether the relationship is strong enough for marriage in the first place.
I'm not sure of any legal benefits to getting married, so I won't comment on those, but I'd be suprised if they were such that a couple had to get married.
Myself, I don't care either way about marriage. I've never cheated on a girl in my life, and if I find a girl that I want to spend the rest of my life with, then I'm capable of doing that without a band of metal on my finger to remind me. However, the girl I'm with may want to get married, or at least have a ceremony of some sort. So I guess I'll have to stay open minded to the concept.
This is about exactly how I'm thinking. Also, my parents who've been togheter for I think 21 years+ now are not married, so I don't think there is any need at all.
It is simpler to get married though, legally, because if you're married, and one of you die, then the other one gets all the stuff automatically. Meanwhile if one of my parents died and they hadn't fixed anything legally in beforehand, me and my sister would've been the ones to inherit everything. Obviously this shouldn't be to much of a problem in most cases, if you still have a good relationship with your Children they are quite likely to let you keep the things you want to keep, but still it's probably better to just have everything figured out legally in beforehand.
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Married for 13 years now, will probably be married for at least another 13 at this point.
In short, if you aren't 100% without a shred of doubt sure..Don't get married. Honestly there is little reason to get married anymore. The Tax benefits have all but been wiped out and frankly if it doesn't work (Lets be honest, this is a thing you must consider), the Legal system is absolutely stacked against you as a man. There is a phrase "It's cheaper to keep her", and it is extremely true. In most cases Divorce no matter how amicable will just about financially ruin the man and have zero impact on the woman. Obviously the hope is that this never comes up, but you have to plan for the worst case either way.
That said..a V relationship or polyamorous relationship where a couple has a single girlfriend that is dating them both is the best relationship imaginable.
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I might be able to bring some different perspective, since I'm getting married in exactly 1 month. Though we have only dated proper for a little over 2 years, we've known each other since we were kids, so take with that what you will as far as "the right time" goes.
The thing is, there's no formula, and there's no best way to go about this. When I talked to my dad about proposing, he tore into me for almost an hour on all the problems and doubts that I might have. Some of them were like yours, that I'd have but one woman for the rest of my life, etc. But then he gave me some great advice: if you're waiting for the perfect time to get married, you might as well stay single, because it's never going to happen. There will always be doubts and problems and issues and whatever. The real question you have to ask yourself is do you want to make the commitment to this girl? Is she worth spending your time and effort on taking care of for the rest of your life, and do you want to make her spend her time and effort taking care of you?
There are lots of great reasons to get married. Let me caveat before I get into them, however, that these are reasons that work for most folks but not all. Some people can be committed and unmarried and be totally cool with it, some folks can have open marriages or swing and that's no big deal, either. If you have that goin' for you, that's cool, but it's certainly not the majority of folks out there. I'm gonna gamble that you're the average guy, and thus talk about average things. If I don't always say that below, just know I'm not being presumptuous, I know that what I have to say doesn't apply to every person or relationship.
As far as sanctity, it is what you make of it. I'm totally committed and we're religious folks, so I'd disagree that there's no sanctity to marriage. A friend of mine once called her man "good first husband material." Not much sanctity there, haha, but for us, the perspective is totally different. If y'all aren't religious, as well, then I can understand how this wouldn't be a huge factor.
Besides that though, the express commitment to taking care of each other for life simply cannot be accomplished for most relationships without marriage. I know that logically marriage isn't necessary for two people to be together, but really, try telling that to your potential mate for life. Such an attitude will break far more relationships than it saves, because marriage is how most of our cultures express the desire to be committed to another for life. It's what most people who want to be so committed expect, especially among females, if I might. If you don't have a significant other, you can comfort yourself with all the logic in the world behind not needing to be married to be committed for life, but in practice don't be surprised is this gets shot down in about 3 seconds with an angry stare. Relationships are built on logic, at least not in large part.
As far as that being taken care of thing, let me tell you, it doesn't get any better than it. The difference is stark to me right now, because we are long distance until the wedding, and I feel discernibly empty because of it. When we're together, she just keeps my life on track in a way I never could myself. It makes me feel special to know that I have someone who believes in me and loves me enough to devote so much of her day to my own well-being, and it inspires me to do as much or more for her in return. In that way, we build each other up, make each other better. I go to work happy to know that I'm helping take care of her, even if my job sucks. To put it more simply, she improves my quality of life by a large degree, and I her. Yes, I'm giving up certain freedoms to gain this, but for me there's no comparison to waking up next to her as opposed to mostly waking up alone, perhaps occasionally with another. Furthermore, we have complete trust and comfort with one another.The perpetual dating world features games and unknowns that simply don't exist in married life (or at least they shouldn't, haha). I can walk around in my underwear no big deal, she can snore and not feel self-conscious. We get to be ourselves without worry and still receive affection and love, a great comfort.
Another big plus is that we're eventually going to have kids and such, and marriage is a great benefit for family stability. Kids thrive on structure, and marriage, as a construct, is naturally more of a structure than non-marriage. If you're not into kids, which really how many guys in their mid-20s are, then this might not be such a strong factor, haha. However, for me, when I have kids, I want them to feel secure in their parents always being together and being there for them, which marriage does better than any amount of logical convincing. Again, logically, this is unnecessary, but in practice, it simply tends to work better.
Legally, in the US, marriage has a ton of benefits. Tax-wise, there can be a penalty or a benefit depending on what you both make, but as far as being the family that can be there in the hospital past closing hours, getting healthcare plans together, etc., there's lots of good stuff. None of these are very strong reasons to get married though, so I don't think they're worth much consideration for most folks.
There are lots of other reasons, but many of them are relationship specific. Consider how she makes you feel, and consider how you'd feel without that. Don't focus only on the positives of being alone, like having more freedom. Focus on the negatives as well, because it's always easier to consider what you're missing than what you've got. I'm not saying go off and get married, because I consider it a serious commitment that you need to be as sure of as possible before you take the leap. However, if you're worried that marriage in general is just not worth it, please allow me to dissuade you from such notions. It's the best decision I've ever made, so there's obviously some benefits for the average guy out there.
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I've been dating my gf for over six years now, first two were great, like a love story; third was shaky as fuck, fourth was worse, fifth was better, but still pretty bad. Obviously lots of fights and attempts to break up etc.
At this point however, we both think it's going great, and I'm pretty sure we'll end up getting married some time in the near future.
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On October 05 2011 22:42 The Black wrote:
Ok these are my thoughts:
Legal benefits - understood and agree
Life stability - ok I get it
Commitment - Clear
Problem is, is it not natural for a man to really go hunting. It's not even about the grass being greener on the other side. It's about pleasure, or, forgive me, conquest! Maybe one can get married and just secretly be "hunting" on the sides, but still be in love and committed to the marriage. Is that such a bastardly thought? Perhaps there will be such a woman in time that will tame a man, right?
If this is your thought process, stop kidding yourself and your girlfriend. You aren't ready for marriage, and she doesn't sound like someone you really want to marry. You're being unfair to her.
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It's pretty simple - you will know if marriage is right for you if you have no hesitation in making that commitment, and the prospect of spending your life with that one person does not scare you at all (the thought of being seperated should be scary, not the prospect of being "bound" to that person).
If you have been with this person for two years, and you have any doubts about commitment, you should be thinking about SPLITTING UP, not marriage. If you are in a long term relationship and the answer to the question "could I see myself potentially spending my life with this person" is not 'yes', when what are you still doing in that relationship?
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OP you'll know when it's right. That simple. It's not about making a checklist or thinking about her vs. other women. If you're thinking the way you're thinking, it's not right yet.
It may never be right with this girl or with any girl - who knows. Not worth stressing about imo (like trying to figure out your MMR). When you know you'll know, otherwise everything else is theorycrafting 
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When I like a girl I tend to disregard the rest.
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I have been married for 7 years now.. even I can not believe it. I was blessed enough to have met my wife online playing Quake III. Yes, that's a true story. There are a lot of great things about being married and if you are able to compromise your 'gaming' a bit for the better of the marriage, its even better. Not many guys will find a women that games or even understands it.. but oddly enough.. Facebook games has changed that a bit. It is easier now to meet someone that understands online gaming a bit more...to a degree.
If you are questioning how you feel about a woman... do not get married.
If you think the 'next step' in your life is to get married... do not get married.
BUT.. if neither one of those thoughts/feelings are present.. and you feel truly blessed to be sharing your life with the other person..then go for it! Its a commitment that takes work, a little luck and lots of love.. but one that is surely worth it.
my 3 cents...
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I am married and it is better than being single.
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I proposed to my wife after 1 week and a half of dating, we were sure. been together 2+ years now.
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EPT
