On September 28 2011 20:10 Keldrath wrote: saying you dont like their culture and stuff is fine, but when you use blanket statements like all gypsies are bad is when you become a racist biggot.
No because it's not the race being hated on, it's a culture. Disliking a cultural trait that is shared by a racial group is not racism.
So if there was a thread where people said how much they hated black people because all they do is steal, you wouldn't have a problem with that because someone could argue it's a cultural trait?
Gypsy is not synonymous with criminal. Yes they live a different lifestyle and there will be clashes of culture but there is no law that says they have to live the same way as everyone else. Anyone making blanket statements like all gyspies steal or all gypsies are violent is prejudiced.
On September 28 2011 20:10 Keldrath wrote: saying you dont like their culture and stuff is fine, but when you use blanket statements like all gypsies are bad is when you become a racist biggot.
No because it's not the race being hated on, it's a culture. Disliking a cultural trait that is shared by a racial group is not racism.
So if there was a thread where people said how much they hated black people because all they do is steal, you wouldn't have a problem with that because someone could argue it's a cultural trait?
Gypsy is not synonymous with criminal. Yes they live a different lifestyle and there will be clashes of culture but there is no law that says they have to live the same way as everyone else. Anyone making blanket statements like all gyspies steal or all gypsies are violent is prejudiced.
So according to your statement when they refuse to pay taxes and bills for what they used i should respect this as a way of life and go fuck myself?
On September 28 2011 20:10 Keldrath wrote: saying you dont like their culture and stuff is fine, but when you use blanket statements like all gypsies are bad is when you become a racist biggot.
No because it's not the race being hated on, it's a culture. Disliking a cultural trait that is shared by a racial group is not racism.
What if you start to assume that people share those cultural characteristics because they share the racial features?
FWIW, there are people who will claim that gypsies are genetically predisposed towards criminal or antisocial behaviour. But many will say that because they feel blaming it on culture is PC. In the end it's not really an opinion just something they will say because they feel gypsies "deserve" it.
Which is why the whole racism debate is unhelpful. It is what is: prejudice based on experience generalized to most or all members of the group who share the same appearance. Whether you think it should be called racism or not shouldn't change your moral judgement of the sort of behaviour.
On September 28 2011 20:10 Keldrath wrote: saying you dont like their culture and stuff is fine, but when you use blanket statements like all gypsies are bad is when you become a racist biggot.
No because it's not the race being hated on, it's a culture. Disliking a cultural trait that is shared by a racial group is not racism.
So if there was a thread where people said how much they hated black people because all they do is steal, you wouldn't have a problem with that because someone could argue it's a cultural trait?
Gypsy is not synonymous with criminal. Yes they live a different lifestyle and there will be clashes of culture but there is no law that says they have to live the same way as everyone else. Anyone making blanket statements like all gyspies steal or all gypsies are violent is prejudiced.
Quite different bro. As I mentioned earlier, in gypsy language they have one word for "slave" and "foreigner". They don't even hide the fact that their culture is based on stealing and all the other things mentioned here. The difference is that when a black guy isn't stealing it's a surprise for no-one. When a gypsy isn't stealing it's not only surprising for people of other cultures, it's also considered as something like "being a traitor" from the gypsy community. I've seen two types of successful gypsies : 1) those who are ashamed of their gypsy heritage and try to conceal the fact that they belong (or have belonged) to this community 2) those who say "I'm gypsy, and while I'm not proud of what most gypsies doing, I can't stop being gypsy and I want to be judged by a normal person" BOTH types are actually against gypsy culture, how hard it it to understand :/
On September 28 2011 20:10 Keldrath wrote: saying you dont like their culture and stuff is fine, but when you use blanket statements like all gypsies are bad is when you become a racist biggot.
No because it's not the race being hated on, it's a culture. Disliking a cultural trait that is shared by a racial group is not racism.
So if there was a thread where people said how much they hated black people because all they do is steal, you wouldn't have a problem with that because someone could argue it's a cultural trait?
Gypsy is not synonymous with criminal. Yes they live a different lifestyle and there will be clashes of culture but there is no law that says they have to live the same way as everyone else. Anyone making blanket statements like all gyspies steal or all gypsies are violent is prejudiced.
And anyone saying stuff like this is fucking ignorant. Their culture and lifestyle LEAD to all those things people are accusing them from (robbing, living on welfawe, not sending children to school). So stop with the prejudice bullshit PLEASE and learn something about their culture first. Sure, there are gypsies who are integrated to society, have jobs, have children who study, but those are gypsies who mostly or totally abandoned the gypsy culture and lifestyle.
On September 28 2011 20:10 Keldrath wrote: saying you dont like their culture and stuff is fine, but when you use blanket statements like all gypsies are bad is when you become a racist biggot.
No because it's not the race being hated on, it's a culture. Disliking a cultural trait that is shared by a racial group is not racism.
So if there was a thread where people said how much they hated black people because all they do is steal, you wouldn't have a problem with that because someone could argue it's a cultural trait?
Gypsy is not synonymous with criminal. Yes they live a different lifestyle and there will be clashes of culture but there is no law that says they have to live the same way as everyone else. Anyone making blanket statements like all gyspies steal or all gypsies are violent is prejudiced.
gypsy is not a race. races are black, asian, caucashian, latin. gypsy is not a nationality either since there is no gypsy-country or gypsyland. nationalities are english, russian, canadian etc. roma is an ethic group, originates from India arriving to europe in the 15th century. most of them follows gypsy culture. the "gypsy" word itself is a translation of the world cigany to english (czech: cikan, latin: cinganus, german: zigeuner, french: tsigane, italian: zingaro, portugese: cigano, romanian: tigan, spanish: zincal, swedish: ziganere, serbian, slovanian and croatian: cigan, turkish: cingene...) every one of them originates from the greek word "ατσιγανο" which has had the following meaning: "opposer of law", "outsider", "untouchable".
On September 28 2011 10:14 StarBrift wrote: Can people actually stop reffering to them as "Gypsies"? It's ridiculously racist and not in the slightest even remotely close to what they call themselves / want to be called. Do you people actually use the N word for black people aswell so freely and without thought?
The Romani has a bad rep in sweden aswell but we don't use derogatory names to demean them even if they sometimes to act outside the law (allthough not often so in sweden admittably).
The problem with the logic from east europeans here on the board is that you are blaming one minority group for the huge failure of your entire societal system. As many of you allready mentioned the corruption in the government is a huge problem and without that these problems wouldn't exist in the first place. Granted there are corruption to certain degrees in every government but clearly more so in certain countries and the Balkan countries / the rest of eastern europe does not have a good track record when it comes to democracy.
So how about yopu start focusing on the real problem and support protests against the governments instead of riots against a minority of people that has no influence over the countries fate anyway. You shouldn't be half as mad at criminal Romani as you should be at the goverment that lets it happen.
Just please, stop calling people Gypsies. It's incredibly racist and clearly pointless. It only breeds more hatred.
Oh, and your great country was very successful, it deported them back where they came from. GJ, now where would the rest of us deport them?
exactly. some countries have deported them back to balkans and no one made any problem regarding that and if any balkan country or any eastern european country tries to deport them to somewhere else then it would have been a major problem.
In Bulgaria, a small example how communist mafia>government>police>gypsie relation can go; you own a car and after some time it gets stolen. oh yes every car in bulgaria got stolen atleast once. you have had a government forced insurance that u have to pay from time to time to the government which gives you the licence aswell, which makes your car registrated. anyway when your car is stolen, you are pretty sure that it is stolen by gypsies. if you go to the police and report it, they will tell you it will take some time to find it if we can even. your government pays the insurance where that money goes to the police because as soon as you receive the government insurance, police appears with your car lol. same with car example, many stolen goods are actually tracked and controlled by the police which are partners in crime with gypsies. but they cant do anything because government always acts the blind-deaf monkey thanks to the mafia behind it. you cant believe how eastern europe is corrupt as hell.
In Turkey, when todays liberal-conservative government got elected at 2002, they have offered gypsies one last chance to live like any other citizen, %99 of the gypsies yet again continued to do what they do. as a result, they have been deported to bulgaria/greece. goverment demolished their trash huts and built proper housing there and now the %1 of the remaining is living there, paying taxes and doing no crime at all.
In Serbia, current power in the government is the democratic party. Irony is that them being democrats, there is no proper democratic constitution. there are some good articles within regarding human rights but still there are other ridiculous articles such as the president is chief of the army at the same time. anyway serbia has been accepting many bulgarians to the country recently, any bulgarians can confirm that aswell here and all the reason was how those bulgarians are fleeing to serbia because of bulgarian mega corrupt government. serbian government is corrupt aswell but atleast there is no major gypsie leaders who can control lots of power but still the gypsies in serbia are living the same way as any other in the region. but if serbia dont deport gypsies out it is very soon that serbia will get to the same level as bulgarians and romanians regarding the gypsie issue, amount of problems are very close to it anyway.
while In Croatia, government have followed a similar way such as some western european countries and turkey regarding gypsies and deported big amount of them to neighbours where they believe they came from and having tensions with the living minorty. not so much ago the croat government wanted to burn down, yes literally burn down with torches, their trash village because they are really not wanted there.
i can go in more details in all eastern european countries regarding what both sides and especially governments are doing regarding the issue. yet again i say, it is not racism. it is pure nationalism since gypsies refuse to accept your nationality and refuse your government, refuse the countries and the borders in the whole eastern europe. comparing gypsies to the blacks in america is also very stupid. no one is putting gypsies to slavery in Europe. they have same rights as the people who they live with. hell even have extra rights because of being minorities.
Europeans in this thread are posting with huge hate because they want justice, not because they hate their dark brown skin and dark hair. They want justice that they dont want intruders and criminals to live with double standarts while they have to pay taxes so the money goes to these gypsies kids, local people have to tolerate them because they are humans regardless of how big crimes they are doing on the society. they want justice because they dont want their kids or even themselves to be pulled in by force to the prostitution, armed robberies and assaults, drug sellers and organ mafias. they want justice because where they live the local companies like from groceries, bars to small government funded services like bus transportation and many more stuff that is suffering from the gypsies barbaric way of living but still tolerating their crimes and asking a stagnant government to sort this issue with patiently for years.
so people who are shitting about racism, just zip it and let the europeans ask for their justice. because they rightfully deserve it to the every drop.
Thank you for this post, Reyis. May I ask where are you from?
On September 28 2011 20:10 Keldrath wrote: saying you dont like their culture and stuff is fine, but when you use blanket statements like all gypsies are bad is when you become a racist biggot.
No because it's not the race being hated on, it's a culture. Disliking a cultural trait that is shared by a racial group is not racism.
So if there was a thread where people said how much they hated black people because all they do is steal, you wouldn't have a problem with that because someone could argue it's a cultural trait?
Gypsy is not synonymous with criminal. Yes they live a different lifestyle and there will be clashes of culture but there is no law that says they have to live the same way as everyone else. Anyone making blanket statements like all gyspies steal or all gypsies are violent is prejudiced.
So according to your statement when they refuse to pay taxes and bills for what they used i should respect this as a way of life and go fuck myself?
Of course, I can only speak for my country. Here the majority of gypsies live on legal sites where they are required to pay taxes. Problems occur when there are not enough legal sites (because there are not enough).
However I still hear the same prejudices here. 'All they do is steal, they are all violent criminals, why should we pay for them' etc etc. And having spent a good deal of time with a gypsy family, I know all of these things to be untrue. Historically as well they have been persecuted to a huge degree.
So even though I can't really comment on the gypsy 'problem' in your country, am I going to just accept that they are all anti-social, violent criminals who do nothing but steal? No man, it'd take a lot of convincing. Because that's not my experience, of gypsies or just of people in general; I'd find it difficult to believe that any large group of people could all be thieves and criminals.
Ok fuck this thread too many people either concerned with the minimal difference between race and ethnicity (seriously who gives a fuck) or busy telling me what I do and do not know.
On September 28 2011 20:10 Keldrath wrote: saying you dont like their culture and stuff is fine, but when you use blanket statements like all gypsies are bad is when you become a racist biggot.
No because it's not the race being hated on, it's a culture. Disliking a cultural trait that is shared by a racial group is not racism.
What if you start to assume that people share those cultural characteristics because they share the racial features?
FWIW, there are people who will claim that gypsies are genetically predisposed towards criminal or antisocial behaviour. But many will say that because they feel blaming it on culture is PC. In the end it's not really an opinion just something they will say because they feel gypsies "deserve" it.
Which is why the whole racism debate is unhelpful. It is what is: prejudice based on experience generalized to most or all members of the group who share the same appearance. Whether you think it should be called racism or not shouldn't change your moral judgement of the sort of behaviour.
I haven't seen anyone other than Cloud say that because someone is gypsy that person is scum. People who assume every Romani person is scum are stupid. Just like people who assume every black person steals are stupid.
I feel this is a very big problem in the western world. As soon as someone even suggests that a particular culture might not mingle well into society it's like all the leftwing activists jump from behind the trees and start screaming RACIST RACIST NAZIS RACIST NAZIS. It's disgusting really. Unless you're attributing character traits to a race instead of a culture, IT'S NOT RACIST.
If a culture encourages stealing, murder, rape and illiteracy then it's bad culture. End of. Take any baby from stone age tribe X in the middle of nowhere from the African continent and raise him in a rich white family. He'll become succesful. Race is not the problem, culture is.
And besides, I've never even seen gypsies as an ethnic group or race. The translation of gypsy would be zigeuner in Dutch and that simply means someone living a nomadic life. The correct ethnical term would be Romani (as far as I know). When people refer to gypsies they mean the Romani people practicing the gypsy culture.
I'm racist against thiefs, drugdealers and murderers so that means i hate all the whites, blacks, asians and gipsys that fall under that.
The problem with the gipsys is that their lifestyle only allows them to be criminals, why you ask?
Because they won't work and since they don't cultivate, grow animals or actually have any skill that can bring them money legally besides all the subsidies they get from all the european government they have to commit crimes or they will die of food!
People don't get it but 90% of all gipsys are unemployed or even more! And they will never change because they don't allow their kids to go to school.
For instance the Amish.people live outside of their communitys in the states but they work for their food and they educate their children, see the difference.
BTW i'm sorry for you bulgarian guys.. your goverment is way worse then the gipsys because they allow them to rule your country. It's not like that in Portugal since they are a small minority and don't have any political power or connections with the police. I wouldn't like to live in a country that works like yours and i bet you don't to.. so cheer up guys maybe someday it will change!
On September 28 2011 20:39 The KY wrote: Ok fuck this thread too many people either concerned with the minimal difference between race and ethnicity (seriously who gives a fuck) or busy telling me what I do and do not know.
/caring.
"Gypsy is not synonymous with criminal" well yes it is, since the ancient greek word have the meaning "opposer of law". up to this day, they not just referred by others, but also referring to themselves with the same word. you certainly cared enough to show us how uninformed you are. however upon your request ill let you make a clown out of yourself and stop correcting.
This proves my point.. When a gipsy leaves their lifestyle and join our culture they become a person deserving of respect and admiration!
A well educated person will always be that and not a black, white or gipsy. If they send their children to school in two generations they will stop being hated.. Study, integrate, mingle and work for a living and no one will be prejudice against you. It's not color, it's lifestyle.
On September 28 2011 20:10 Keldrath wrote: saying you dont like their culture and stuff is fine, but when you use blanket statements like all gypsies are bad is when you become a racist biggot.
No because it's not the race being hated on, it's a culture. Disliking a cultural trait that is shared by a racial group is not racism.
So if there was a thread where people said how much they hated black people because all they do is steal, you wouldn't have a problem with that because someone could argue it's a cultural trait?
Gypsy is not synonymous with criminal. Yes they live a different lifestyle and there will be clashes of culture but there is no law that says they have to live the same way as everyone else. Anyone making blanket statements like all gyspies steal or all gypsies are violent is prejudiced.
So according to your statement when they refuse to pay taxes and bills for what they used i should respect this as a way of life and go fuck myself?
Of course, I can only speak for my country. Here the majority of gypsies live on legal sites where they are required to pay taxes. Problems occur when there are not enough legal sites (because there are not enough).
However I still hear the same prejudices here. 'All they do is steal, they are all violent criminals, why should we pay for them' etc etc. And having spent a good deal of time with a gypsy family, I know all of these things to be untrue. Historically as well they have been persecuted to a huge degree.
So even though I can't really comment on the gypsy 'problem' in your country, am I going to just accept that they are all anti-social, violent criminals who do nothing but steal? No man, it'd take a lot of convincing. Because that's not my experience, of gypsies or just of people in general; I'd find it difficult to believe that any large group of people could all be thieves and criminals.
I will give you just one statistical number since i am sure you can use google as good as me and you can find all the info you want
According to last statistical data gypsies in Bulgaria are 4,9% of the population. And according to last few years crimes statistics 31% of all the crimes are made by gypsies. So do you think there is a problem?
On September 28 2011 20:39 The KY wrote: Ok fuck this thread too many people either concerned with the minimal difference between race and ethnicity (seriously who gives a fuck) or busy telling me what I do and do not know.
/caring.
you just trolled a thread with your abysmal stupidity and all you can say is /caring ???
The difference is not minimal, there's actually nothing in common. There was even a movement in France, 60-70 years ago, when people whose blood was not gypsy wanted to live "a life closer to nature's, closer to gypsies' way". Even though this movement seems to have disappeared, if it hadn't we'd be against it too, because it's gypsy culture.
On September 28 2011 20:39 The KY wrote: Ok fuck this thread too many people either concerned with the minimal difference between race and ethnicity (seriously who gives a fuck) or busy telling me what I do and do not know.
/caring.
"Gypsy is not synonymous with criminal" well yes it is, since the ancient greek word have the meaning "opposer of law". up to this day, they not just referred by others, but also referring to themselves with the same word. you certainly cared enough to show us how uninformed you are. however upon your request ill let you make a clown out of yourself and stop correcting.
here you go....
"The English term Gypsy (or Gipsy) originates from the Greek word for "Egyptian"
You sure told me.
But yeah man I've made a huge clown of myself, by relating my impression of gypsy people based on personal experience.
On September 28 2011 20:42 shell wrote: BTW i'm sorry for you bulgarian guys.. your goverment is way worse then the gipsys because they allow them to rule your country. It's not like that in Portugal since they are a small minority and don't have any political power or connections with the police. I wouldn't like to live in a country that works like yours and i bet you don't to.. so cheer up guys maybe someday it will change!
Well, if things keep up like they are... just for information, Bulgaria has 250000 licensed hunters, while the police force + army is barely 81000. So yeah, things will change, but it won't be pretty.
I'm racist against thiefs, drugdealers and murderers so that means i hate all the whites, blacks, asians and gipsys that fall under that.
The problem with the gipsys is that their lifestyle only allows them to be criminals, why you ask?
Because they won't work and since they don't cultivate, grow animals or actually have any skill that can bring them money legally besides all the subsidies they get from all the european government they have to commit crimes or they will die of food!
People don't get it but 90% of all gipsys are unemployed or even more! And they will never change because they don't allow their kids to go to school.
For instance the Amish.people live outside of their communitys in the states but they work for their food and they educate their children, see the difference.
BTW i'm sorry for you bulgarian guys.. your goverment is way worse then the gipsys because they allow them to rule your country. It's not like that in Portugal since they are a small minority and don't have any political power or connections with the police. I wouldn't like to live in a country that works like yours and i bet you don't to.. so cheer up guys maybe someday it will change!
People don't get it but 90% of all gipsys are unemployed or even more!
That statistic is wrong in case you are referring to the ethnic group of the Roma which is what the term Gypsy became synonymous with. Please don't use percentages unless you have some statistic actually reinforcing it.
There is a problem with their culture and it needs to be dealt with but using inflated figures and racist sounding statements is really not helping the cause.
EPT
