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Occupy Wall Street - Page 43

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
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Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
October 07 2011 15:59 GMT
#841
On October 08 2011 00:51 jmack wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/opinion/krugman-confronting-the-malefactors.html?_r=2&hp

Great article by Paul Krugman, check it.


I wish he wrote the article with less digs at the Tea Party or some of the other parts that seem like their only purpose is to alienate readers of opposing political views, but great article none the less.
Logo
BioNova
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States598 Posts
October 07 2011 16:18 GMT
#842
2008 Presidential Campaign: Top Donors

Obama
1.) University of California $1,648,685
2.) Goldman Sachs $1,013,091
3.) Harvard University $864,654
4.) Microsoft Corp $852,167
5.) Google Inc $814,540
6.) JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799
7.) Citigroup Inc $736,771
8.) Time Warner $624,618
9.) Sidley Austin LLP $600,298
10.) Stanford University $595,716

McCain
1.) Merrill Lynch $375,895
2.) JPMorgan Chase & Co $343,505
3.) Citigroup Inc $338,202
4.) Morgan Stanley $271,902
5.) Goldman Sachs $240,295
6.) US Government $202,929
7.) AT&T Inc $201,938
8.) Wachovia Corp $199,663
9.) UBS AG $187,493
10.) Credit Suisse Group $184,153

Pretty scary groupings. Note. Obama refused all taxpayer contributions to his campain after obtaining the D nom. First!

Source
I used to like trumpets, now I prefer pause. "Don't move a muscle JP!"
Signet
Profile Joined March 2007
United States1718 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-07 16:34:53
October 07 2011 16:32 GMT
#843
Did you mean that Democrats are in the pocket of Wall Street? (ie, most hedge fund managers contribute money to Dems, with 2010 being a rare exception)

Slate was talking about the Democrats and Wall Street being strange bedfellows a decade ago:
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2002/10/the_democratic_dividend.html

This is one of the major frustrations liberal voters have with the influence of big campaign money on politics. The only way a candidate in either party can get a slice of that money (or perhaps more importantly, get "independent" PACs/527s/503c's/etc to run ads attacking their opponents) is by giving the bankers what they want.

For stock brokers and managers, it's both a matter of:
a) trying to essentially bribe Democratic politicians to back off of the progressive policies they campaign on (specifically bank regulation and more progressive tax structure)
b) rational self interest. Unless Democrats made huge huge increases to tax rates, they're better off with 12% growth (using the stock aggregates as an example) than 8%.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18835 Posts
October 07 2011 16:35 GMT
#844
On October 08 2011 00:59 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2011 00:51 jmack wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/opinion/krugman-confronting-the-malefactors.html?_r=2&hp

Great article by Paul Krugman, check it.


I wish he wrote the article with less digs at the Tea Party or some of the other parts that seem like their only purpose is to alienate readers of opposing political views, but great article none the less.

Since when is repeating the stance/platform of a political party a dig? That's what really gets me with political discourse these days, much of what comes out of the tea party and the republican party sounds so stupid that even they think its offensive once read back to them. Not that you are a tea partyer, it just seems odd that you'd take issue with a fairly to the point op-ed piece by Paul Krugman in the NYT for it having an opinion.....
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6243 Posts
October 07 2011 16:46 GMT
#845
On October 08 2011 01:18 BioNova wrote:
2008 Presidential Campaign: Top Donors

Obama
1.) University of California $1,648,685
2.) Goldman Sachs $1,013,091
3.) Harvard University $864,654
4.) Microsoft Corp $852,167
5.) Google Inc $814,540
6.) JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799
7.) Citigroup Inc $736,771
8.) Time Warner $624,618
9.) Sidley Austin LLP $600,298
10.) Stanford University $595,716

McCain
1.) Merrill Lynch $375,895
2.) JPMorgan Chase & Co $343,505
3.) Citigroup Inc $338,202
4.) Morgan Stanley $271,902
5.) Goldman Sachs $240,295
6.) US Government $202,929
7.) AT&T Inc $201,938
8.) Wachovia Corp $199,663
9.) UBS AG $187,493
10.) Credit Suisse Group $184,153

Pretty scary groupings. Note. Obama refused all taxpayer contributions to his campain after obtaining the D nom. First!

Source


nice list didn't know university's gave money for presidential campaigns makes you wonder if that money isn't better invested in better education.
scaban84
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1080 Posts
October 07 2011 16:49 GMT
#846
On October 08 2011 01:46 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2011 01:18 BioNova wrote:
2008 Presidential Campaign: Top Donors

Obama
1.) University of California $1,648,685
2.) Goldman Sachs $1,013,091
3.) Harvard University $864,654
4.) Microsoft Corp $852,167
5.) Google Inc $814,540
6.) JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799
7.) Citigroup Inc $736,771
8.) Time Warner $624,618
9.) Sidley Austin LLP $600,298
10.) Stanford University $595,716

McCain
1.) Merrill Lynch $375,895
2.) JPMorgan Chase & Co $343,505
3.) Citigroup Inc $338,202
4.) Morgan Stanley $271,902
5.) Goldman Sachs $240,295
6.) US Government $202,929
7.) AT&T Inc $201,938
8.) Wachovia Corp $199,663
9.) UBS AG $187,493
10.) Credit Suisse Group $184,153

Pretty scary groupings. Note. Obama refused all taxpayer contributions to his campain after obtaining the D nom. First!

Source


nice list didn't know university's gave money for presidential campaigns makes you wonder if that money isn't better invested in better education.


The educational system in the US is becoming overvalued and is experiencing the same bubble we had in real estate. The government sponsors these ridiculously expensive loans with high interest rates. Its a racket. And the youth are all too willing to enslave themselves to this debt because Mr. Obama and friends tell them they should.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design." — Friedrich von Hayek
BioNova
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States598 Posts
October 07 2011 16:55 GMT
#847
Yes, the UoC actually caught me way offguard. The rest of the list isn't exactly boring to look at either.

Offhand Wachovia was involved in the 400 billion drug money launder story, then bought out by Wells Fargo after a slap on the wrist.

Time Warner and the increase of RIAA(my speculation). Obama did say he would have supported 150,000 per track for fines on DL's as opposed to the current 30k per track. Whole list is full of story material.
I used to like trumpets, now I prefer pause. "Don't move a muscle JP!"
Eknoid4
Profile Joined October 2010
United States902 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-07 17:05:38
October 07 2011 17:05 GMT
#848
On October 08 2011 00:59 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2011 00:51 jmack wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/opinion/krugman-confronting-the-malefactors.html?_r=2&hp

Great article by Paul Krugman, check it.


I wish he wrote the article with less digs at the Tea Party or some of the other parts that seem like their only purpose is to alienate readers of opposing political views, but great article none the less.

People of opposing views to the Tea Party involves over 90% of the first world.
If you're mad that someone else is brazenly trumpeting their beliefs with ignorance, perhaps you should be mad that you are doing it too.
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-07 17:12:57
October 07 2011 17:12 GMT
#849
What is unfair?

...and why is it unfair?

It can only really come down to some people having privileges over others. This ties into licenses, subsidies, tax exemptions, bail-outs and more.

So what are the protesters directing their anger against? Wall Street? Why on earth would you do that? Wall Street is playing the hand that was given to them. The people there act in their own self-interest and are doing what the market currently allows and what makes them the most profit (the same as, and as greedy as, everybody else).

The people who make the rules are the ones to be angry against. The create defecits, they give away privileges, they let themselves be influenced through donor money, they create rules and regulations to make it hard for the average person to do something.

I'd join the movement if only they directed their protests properly.
Hello=)
BlackFlag
Profile Joined September 2010
499 Posts
October 07 2011 17:13 GMT
#850
Can somebody explain to me what Universities can gain by sponsoring? Can they be prioritized over other Universities or something like that? I don't really understand it but I don't know much about US University system.
yarkO
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada810 Posts
October 07 2011 17:14 GMT
#851
Money sucks.
When you are prepared, there's no such thing as pressure.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 07 2011 17:20 GMT
#852
On October 08 2011 02:13 BlackFlag wrote:
Can somebody explain to me what Universities can gain by sponsoring? Can they be prioritized over other Universities or something like that? I don't really understand it but I don't know much about US University system.


Federal research grants. You also have to keep in mind that contributing to someone as signficant as the president gets you access to a very exclusive network of powerful people that can pull all sorts of strings for you. For example, even if the feds don't give the universities research grants, the politicians can arrange for their other supports to pony up the money.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-07 17:27:22
October 07 2011 17:25 GMT
#853
On October 08 2011 01:35 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2011 00:59 Logo wrote:
On October 08 2011 00:51 jmack wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/opinion/krugman-confronting-the-malefactors.html?_r=2&hp

Great article by Paul Krugman, check it.


I wish he wrote the article with less digs at the Tea Party or some of the other parts that seem like their only purpose is to alienate readers of opposing political views, but great article none the less.

Since when is repeating the stance/platform of a political party a dig? That's what really gets me with political discourse these days, much of what comes out of the tea party and the republican party sounds so stupid that even they think its offensive once read back to them. Not that you are a tea partyer, it just seems odd that you'd take issue with a fairly to the point op-ed piece by Paul Krugman in the NYT for it having an opinion.....


Nah not even that much. I just meant saying something like, "...unlike the Tea Party, is angry at the right people." doesn't help to further the point of the other 90% of the article. I can't see that statement, even if true, doing anything besides having a bunch of people take an immediate close-minded position against the rest of the article. The support for my argument with that comment is that the Tea Party isn't mentioned at all for the remainder of the article because they're irrelevant to the actual point of the article.
Logo
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
October 07 2011 17:29 GMT
#854
On October 08 2011 02:14 yarkO wrote:
Money sucks.


Yes, because bartering is so much easier. Money is nothing more than a common medium eliminating the need to find someone who needs whatever product or service you provide, in exchange for what you need.
BlackFlag
Profile Joined September 2010
499 Posts
October 07 2011 17:31 GMT
#855
On October 08 2011 02:20 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2011 02:13 BlackFlag wrote:
Can somebody explain to me what Universities can gain by sponsoring? Can they be prioritized over other Universities or something like that? I don't really understand it but I don't know much about US University system.


Federal research grants. You also have to keep in mind that contributing to someone as signficant as the president gets you access to a very exclusive network of powerful people that can pull all sorts of strings for you. For example, even if the feds don't give the universities research grants, the politicians can arrange for their other supports to pony up the money.


Research money is granted to specific Universities? Didn't know that, the rest makes sense too. Thanks.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 07 2011 17:34 GMT
#856
On October 08 2011 02:31 BlackFlag wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2011 02:20 xDaunt wrote:
On October 08 2011 02:13 BlackFlag wrote:
Can somebody explain to me what Universities can gain by sponsoring? Can they be prioritized over other Universities or something like that? I don't really understand it but I don't know much about US University system.


Federal research grants. You also have to keep in mind that contributing to someone as signficant as the president gets you access to a very exclusive network of powerful people that can pull all sorts of strings for you. For example, even if the feds don't give the universities research grants, the politicians can arrange for their other supports to pony up the money.


Research money is granted to specific Universities? Didn't know that, the rest makes sense too. Thanks.


University research is big business in the US. Both the government and the private sector significantly invest in university-based research. In particular, the private sector often enters into joint venture agreements with universities for research projects.
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
October 07 2011 17:37 GMT
#857
On October 08 2011 02:29 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2011 02:14 yarkO wrote:
Money sucks.


Yes, because bartering is so much easier. Money is nothing more than a common medium eliminating the need to find someone who needs whatever product or service you provide, in exchange for what you need.


except when you can have everything you need without money what use is it then?
"Mudkip"
yarkO
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada810 Posts
October 07 2011 17:39 GMT
#858
On October 08 2011 02:29 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2011 02:14 yarkO wrote:
Money sucks.


Yes, because bartering is so much easier. Money is nothing more than a common medium eliminating the need to find someone who needs whatever product or service you provide, in exchange for what you need.


Oh, I'm not saying that it doesn't facilitate things. I guess it's more accurate to say it's mis-managed.
When you are prepared, there's no such thing as pressure.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
October 07 2011 17:53 GMT
#859
On October 08 2011 01:18 BioNova wrote:
Obama
1.) University of California $1,648,685
2.) Goldman Sachs $1,013,091
3.) Harvard University $864,654
4.) Microsoft Corp $852,167
5.) Google Inc $814,540
6.) JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799
7.) Citigroup Inc $736,771
8.) Time Warner $624,618
9.) Sidley Austin LLP $600,298
10.) Stanford University $595,716

McCain
1.) Merrill Lynch $375,895
2.) JPMorgan Chase & Co $343,505
3.) Citigroup Inc $338,202
4.) Morgan Stanley $271,902
5.) Goldman Sachs $240,295
6.) US Government $202,929
7.) AT&T Inc $201,938
8.) Wachovia Corp $199,663
9.) UBS AG $187,493
10.) Credit Suisse Group $184,153


Can you say "bribe?"
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Signet
Profile Joined March 2007
United States1718 Posts
October 07 2011 18:10 GMT
#860
On October 08 2011 02:29 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2011 02:14 yarkO wrote:
Money sucks.


Yes, because bartering is so much easier. Money is nothing more than a common medium eliminating the need to find someone who needs whatever product or service you provide, in exchange for what you need.

This is totally off-topic but... recently I read a series of posts from an anthropologist talking about how people engaged in trade before the invention of money. He claims that it was more of a debt-based system or in some cases communal, not barter.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/what-is-debt-–-an-interview-with-economic-anthropologist-david-graeber.html
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/david-graeber-on-the-invention-of-money-–-notes-on-sex-adventure-monomaniacal-sociopathy-and-the-true-function-of-economics.html

Disclaimer - I haven't read the book they're talking about and I don't have any background on pre-money civilizations. (also I don't place a ton of confidence in this blog as a source) Just something I found interesting to think about.
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