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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On September 15 2011 12:23 101toss wrote: Posting this because people here seem to think it's fine to punish the mentally ill like this (or didn't read the article). posting this, because nowadays every average nerd and their mother claims to have aspies. and even if, asperger's in particular does not make you unliable | ||
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eXNewB
Canada291 Posts
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Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
On September 15 2011 14:23 Mohdoo wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope Notice how this is exactly what you're doing? Notice how its recognized in philosophy as a fallacy and thus invalid? Argue the topic, not some wildly speculative result years down the line... To quote your page The fallacious sense of "slippery slope" is often used synonymously with continuum fallacy, in that it ignores the possibility of middle ground and assumes a discrete transition from category A to category B. How do you categorize what is acceptable and unacceptable on the internet in terms of free speech versus harassment? This is not a "Category A vs. Category B" discussion, it is a gray scale with no clearly defined categories. Until you can tangibly assess what is acceptable and unacceptable social etiquette the "slippery slope" argument is not fallacious. Modern usage includes a logically valid form, in which a minor action causes a significant impact through a long chain of logical relationships. Note that establishing this chain of logical implication (or quantifying the relevant probabilities) makes this form logically valid. Minor action in my example would be a slightly less sever case of internet trolling being punished with a jail sentence. Repeat this minor action numerous times over a long period of time. Logically valid according to your Wikipedia article. It is exactly like the pedophilia/child porn situation. In the 1950s boy scouts would strip off to go swimming on camps, children would run nude under sprinklers out on the front lawn. Nowadays? A parent can't take a photo or hire a professional photographer to take a photo of their half-nude baby (wearing a nappy) without the photo being deemed child pornography. Sure, you can just say "LOL SLIPPERY SLOPE = LOGICAL FALLACY" but both the Wikipedia article you linked and reality show that it is not always a logical fallacy. Seems like you haven't even read the article you linked. "Foot-in-the-door technique" seems more applicable to my argument than the slippery slope fallacy. | ||
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starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
I think it's unfortunate that this went to court and the guy was punished for this. The internet is the only place I can go where I give 0 shits about what some hater says and by punishing this behavior they bring relevance to the trolls/haters. I don't understand why anyone would be so foolish as to open the can of worms. They can't even police pirating when it's costing imaginary billions of dollars and they want to try to tackle bullying on the internet? Good luck sirs... good luck... | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 15 2011 14:48 Tektos wrote: How do you categorize what is acceptable and unacceptable on the internet in terms of free speech versus harassment? This is not a "Category A vs. Category B" discussion, it is a gray scale with no clearly defined categories. Until you can tangibly assess what is acceptable and unacceptable social etiquette the "slippery slope" argument is not fallacious. Like you'd do in "real life?" On September 15 2011 15:02 starcraft911 wrote: I don't understand why anyone would be so foolish as to open the can of worms. They can't even police pirating when it's costing imaginary billions of dollars and they want to try to tackle bullying on the internet? Good luck sirs... good luck... I've asked this before without a good answer. Why should it matter if they can or can not enforce it? I don't think you'd like it if we legalized everything that the police have a hard time enforcing... People like to use this argument for things like pot and piracy but conveniently ignores everything else that it would apply to. I'm not saying I agree with the sentance I just don't get the reasoning. | ||
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Saji
Netherlands262 Posts
It is becoming more and more like George Orwell predicted in Europe. "Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." George Orwell | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 15 2011 14:48 Tektos wrote: To quote your page How do you categorize what is acceptable and unacceptable on the internet in terms of free speech versus harassment? This is not a "Category A vs. Category B" discussion, it is a gray scale with no clearly defined categories. Until you can tangibly assess what is acceptable and unacceptable social etiquette the "slippery slope" argument is not fallacious. Minor action in my example would be a slightly less sever case of internet trolling being punished with a jail sentence. Repeat this minor action numerous times over a long period of time. Logically valid according to your Wikipedia article. It is exactly like the pedophilia/child porn situation. In the 1950s boy scouts would strip off to go swimming on camps, children would run nude under sprinklers out on the front lawn. Nowadays? A parent can't take a photo or hire a professional photographer to take a photo of their half-nude baby (wearing a nappy) without the photo being deemed child pornography. Sure, you can just say "LOL SLIPPERY SLOPE = LOGICAL FALLACY" but both the Wikipedia article you linked and reality show that it is not always a logical fallacy. Seems like you haven't even read the article you linked. "Foot-in-the-door technique" seems more applicable to my argument than the slippery slope fallacy. What? All you said to counter his point was that "there's a gray middle ground, thus it's not fallacious." You stated that it was a slippery slope and implied that if we don't keep completely protected from stuff like this (Category A), we could end up with speech as limited as China down the road (Category B). Which is ridiculous. I hate the slippery slope argument, I personally think it's terrible. The area is hardly as gray anyways as you're making it be. | ||
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ChampionZerg
United States19 Posts
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 16 2011 01:32 ChampionZerg wrote: I'm sorry, but in this case First Amendment rights protect him. Don't get me wrong, I served in the Marine Corps, and i got to see Westboro Baptist Church disgrace my fallen comrades. I still firmly believe in the right of freedom of speech and would have died for my country defending these clowns. It is not the place of any government to punish anyone for their right to be a trolling piece of shit, karma will take of it. People let simple words bother them way too much. As stated, this poor loser was living by himself and a drunk, let him go on his slow path to suicide, rather than give him attention. Betcha $10,000 it doesn't. | ||
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ChampionZerg
United States19 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 16 2011 01:39 ChampionZerg wrote: What country is he from? I didnt catch the whole thing, just the premise. In America, he should be protected, because he did not threaten anyone. Just imagine how sad of a person you'd have to be to make fun of a family whose daughter commited suicide, and how petty you'd have to be to pursue criminal charges. That is lowering yourself to his level. Considering the link goes to a UK paper... and it's been pointed out in discussion many a times it happened in the UK... :p | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
How does this constitute libel/obscenity, unless you have a super conservative judge? Also, since when did the 1st amendment matter in the UK? | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
On September 14 2011 20:25 Pandemona wrote: But to ban him from social networks for 5 years is a bit weak, if you cruel to animals your nomally banned from having them completely, let alone 5 years. Kind of stupid. I think police know that a perma ban from social media is unenforcable over the long term. | ||
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ChampionZerg
United States19 Posts
second off... WHY...do pseudo intellectuals come in here and try to bring fallacies into arguements off of articles they looked up on wikipedia? | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On September 16 2011 02:32 ChampionZerg wrote: well...thats why i said theres no right for any government to enforce punishment for free speech... UK or anywhere else second off... WHY...do pseudo intellectuals come in here and try to bring fallacies into arguements off of articles they looked up on wikipedia? and why, why do you want to impose the US-only 1st amendment on the rest of the world? seems like other countries run just fine, no? | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 16 2011 02:32 ChampionZerg wrote: well...thats why i said theres no right for any government to enforce punishment for free speech... UK or anywhere else second off... WHY...do pseudo intellectuals come in here and try to bring fallacies into arguements off of articles they looked up on wikipedia? Personally, I think unrestricted free speech would be one of the worst things possible to implement in a modern society. Words have consequences. I'm glad there are libel/slander laws. And I don't think things like in the OP should be protected. I think free speech is valuable only up til a certain point, nor do I buy the slippery slope argument. | ||
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ChampionZerg
United States19 Posts
Theres an example of free speech! Nah, in all seriousness, words only should only be punished if you're threatening to harm someone or even yourself. THAT is my personal opinion and i wish not to impose it on anyone. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10566 Posts
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2037050/Racists-aged-THREE-Children-accused-bigotry-broccoli-head-calling.html Now this is going a little too far imo | ||
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Toxi78
966 Posts
i wonder, if the guy trashtalked the girl in the same way ina bar with a police officer, would anything have happened? | ||
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