On September 15 2011 11:47 Truedot wrote: I think is relevant here.
On September 15 2011 11:46 Tektos wrote:
On September 15 2011 11:04 AlBundy wrote:
On September 15 2011 10:48 BlackJack wrote:
On September 15 2011 10:38 AlBundy wrote: It saddens me to note that some people in this thread are not aware of how powerful words can be.
Considering the sword has ruled over the pen for the vast majority of our history it saddens me when people think words are sometimes too powerful.
edit: I should say all of our history
You got it backwards. Why would people use swords in the first place? Because they've been told to. Not going to evoke Hitler and his speeches but there are a lot of guys who don't have to use swords in order to kill people. Heck, ever seen star wars episode 2? Fucking Jar jar "gives a speech to the assembled Senate in favor of granting Chancellor Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid) vast emergency powers (and arguably starting the wheel that led to the Clone Wars, Galactic Empire, Galactic Civil War, and all the deaths therein)." source; wikipedia
The difference being the examples you've given were from people in positions of power or responsibility. People trusted by those who followed them.
This was a kid posting on Facebook.
Can you imagine it? A douche posts on twitter "hai guys lets go2 war w/ Japan cause they beat us in the world cup LOLOLOL" and then actually going to war over it.
You know what happened when japan had its reactor issue? Thousands of people from the U.S. on facebook posted things such as "serves them right for WW2, this is justice/karma/whatever".
Seriously. and from ALL age groups. Offensive to me, even though Im U.S. cit. Offensive morally to me and ethically. Also grossly ignorant and wrong.
But its their right for these jackasses to say these things. And apparently they have lots of friends on facebook, so its not like their opinion makes them outcasts. People are dying and people say 'serves them right'.... how many people joked about the haiti earthquake? How many people joked about the Japanese crisis?
People are all disgusting, and we either have to bear with them, as much as we live and bear with ourselves, or judge ourselves and our friends and family just as harshly. Which one do you think creates a better society, in the long run? hrmm.
So your stance is words are more powerful than the sword, I'm going to assume this means you support this troll being jailed.
Does that mean you think that every single person who posted things that you referenced along the lines of "serves them right for WW2" should also be thrown in jail?
Steve is the best and so down to earh, i got his autograph on his cd a while back and he really believes in what he says, and just delivers his ideas in a unique way.
more on topic, he should not be able to use her image, but you should be free to say what you want.
On September 15 2011 12:15 Truedot wrote: Im seriously tired of people being so telepathic and knowing exactly how I feel, and trying to tell me that I feel one extreme way or another. Tektos and Cojak. You two trolls can enjoy each other's company because I'm done with you idiots.
I'm not a troll, I was asking for clarification on your opinion because you had not expressed it clearly!!!
Utterly ridiculous that you would respond like that and to be frank a little immature as well. Please understand I was unable to watch your youtube link (I'm at work, things are pretty quiet at the moment), which I suspect may be why you're mistaking me for a troll.
On September 15 2011 10:38 AlBundy wrote: It saddens me to note that some people in this thread are not aware of how powerful words can be.
Considering the sword has ruled over the pen for the vast majority of our history it saddens me when people think words are sometimes too powerful.
edit: I should say all of our history
You got it backwards. Why would people use swords in the first place? Because they've been told to. Not going to evoke Hitler and his speeches but there are a lot of guys who don't have to use swords in order to kill people. Heck, ever seen star wars episode 2? Fucking Jar jar "gives a speech to the assembled Senate in favor of granting Chancellor Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid) vast emergency powers (and arguably starting the wheel that led to the Clone Wars, Galactic Empire, Galactic Civil War, and all the deaths therein)." source; wikipedia
The difference being the examples you've given were from people in positions of power or responsibility. People trusted by those who followed them.
This was a kid posting on Facebook.
Can you imagine it? A douche posts on twitter "hai guys lets go2 war w/ Japan cause they beat us in the world cup LOLOLOL" and then actually going to war over it.
You know what happened when japan had its reactor issue? Thousands of people from the U.S. on facebook posted things such as "serves them right for WW2, this is justice/karma/whatever".
Seriously. and from ALL age groups. Offensive to me, even though Im U.S. cit. Offensive morally to me and ethically. Also grossly ignorant and wrong.
But its their right for these jackasses to say these things. And apparently they have lots of friends on facebook, so its not like their opinion makes them outcasts. People are dying and people say 'serves them right'.... how many people joked about the haiti earthquake? How many people joked about the Japanese crisis?
People are all disgusting, and we either have to bear with them, as much as we live and bear with ourselves, or judge ourselves and our friends and family just as harshly. Which one do you think creates a better society, in the long run? hrmm.
None of it's relevant because they weren't actively harassing the people, just making general comments on their OWN facebook.
"I hope his sentencing shows other trollers that they are not anonymous and they will be caught if they continue their vile games." - One of the victims' fathers.
I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at this tough guy quote... if a troll truly wants to remain anonymous, they can. this guy just didn't.
On September 15 2011 12:43 iamahydralisk wrote: "I hope his sentencing shows other trollers that they are not anonymous and they will be caught if they continue their vile games." - One of the victims' fathers.
I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at this tough guy quote... if a troll truly wants to remain anonymous, they can. this guy just didn't.
It's almost as bad as Jessi Slaughter's father.
Good to hear the cyberpolice backtraced and caught this guy though!
The guy is an asshole but he should absolutely not be in jail. Nor should he be charged or sentenced for any crime.
Trolling in my opinion is speech. Facebook is a privately owned website and they can allow or ban whatever behavior they want. The correct solution is for people to report trolls to facebook and ask that they be deleted. If they don't then stop using facebook and they lose tons of money. Alternatives sites with better mod policies will grow immediately.
This whole notion of cyber bullying, cyber police and charging people for trolling is dangerous and frightening.
At first I read the punishment for his actions and I was like "wow, this is bullshit, no way this guy should get sentenced this hard for just pissing off some kids." And then I read what he did...........
Needless to say, this is a completely deserved punishment for someone who's enough of an asshole to do something like that. I think people really need to realize that "trolling" on FB isn't really the same as trolling internet forums and not actually trolling; it's just being a horrible person.
the cyber police got to him man. But seriously.. I think jailing him goes way too far = / they need to teach kids how to deal with trolls at an early age in school. Much like the birds and the bees
On September 15 2011 10:52 paintfive wrote: huh? freedom of speech anyone? shit like this leads to unnecessary censorship
This isn't censorship this is punishment. And plus, if you live in the US your "Right to say anything" is not that... flexible. There's things called Libel and Slander, even obscenity classified by the Miller Test are not subject to the First Amendment.
On September 15 2011 10:52 paintfive wrote: huh? freedom of speech anyone? shit like this leads to unnecessary censorship
This isn't censorship this is punishment. And plus, if you live in the US your "Right to say anything" is not that... flexible. There's things called Libel and Slander, even obscenity classified by the Miller Test are not subject to the First Amendment.
He didn't call it censorship, he said it leads to censorship.
Sure, at first they are stopping people from relentlessly harassing others but who is to say the border wont get skewed further until in a few decades time we've got as much freedom of speech as China does?
On September 15 2011 10:52 paintfive wrote: huh? freedom of speech anyone? shit like this leads to unnecessary censorship
This isn't censorship this is punishment. And plus, if you live in the US your "Right to say anything" is not that... flexible. There's things called Libel and Slander, even obscenity classified by the Miller Test are not subject to the First Amendment.
He didn't call it censorship, he said it leads to censorship.
Sure, at first they are stopping people from relentlessly harassing others but who is to say the border wont get skewed further until in a few decades time we've got as much freedom of speech as China does?
I don't know. That particular slippery slope argument seems really out there. Like arguing if we shut people down for libel and slander it's a slippery slope till when we shut down people for telling the truth???
It seems to me the entire idea of no censorship is to prevent ideas, even unpopular ideas from getting shut down. But I fail to see what sort of ideas this fellow is propagating. It's like trying to protect a vandals right to destroy stuff. There's no core belief this guy is upholding except to make some else's life miserable.
Free speech on the internet seems to be championed on the behalf of a-holes for the right to be a-holes rather than championing on the behalf of people that hold actual, legitimate ideas however unpopular.
On September 15 2011 10:52 paintfive wrote: huh? freedom of speech anyone? shit like this leads to unnecessary censorship
This isn't censorship this is punishment. And plus, if you live in the US your "Right to say anything" is not that... flexible. There's things called Libel and Slander, even obscenity classified by the Miller Test are not subject to the First Amendment.
He didn't call it censorship, he said it leads to censorship.
Sure, at first they are stopping people from relentlessly harassing others but who is to say the border wont get skewed further until in a few decades time we've got as much freedom of speech as China does?
Notice how this is exactly what you're doing? Notice how its recognized in philosophy as a fallacy and thus invalid? Argue the topic, not some wildly speculative result years down the line...
If you wouldn't say these things to them in person then don't say it at all. I wouldn't mind bashing a trolls face in for being a consistent pest. I think he should be put in jail for being a complete douche bag. Trolls are the most annoying thing on the internet next to spam. I have no remorse for this idiot, especially since it was on the page of somebody who died.
And this kids so sad, Louie Anderson must have been his role model. Judging by the way that fool be lookin.
This is a disgrace to be honest. We are talking about someone harassing someone else on a private online media site.
If this jugdement was delivered after he had done this in face to face, or sending real letters he would be breaking the law. But we're talking about a privately funded platform where people can leave whenever they want, and there ought to be some kind of moderator to stop him.
I sincerely hope that such state of court never happens in Denmark, as it's a clear violation of everything I believe in, and it would actually be very interesting if the convicted guy brought this case to the European Court of Human Rights.