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[Old] The massacre in Norway - Page 27

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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect!
vvvVec
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway85 Posts
July 23 2011 11:20 GMT
#521
I was on a boat bound for Oslo when i picked this up about 15 minutes after the event occured by randomly turning the radio on my cellphone.
The boat docked aprox. 1 hour after the event, and as i walked into Oslo i was struck by how surreal this was.. Entire streets were empty with only police and military personell scattering around.

I lack words, its almost as if i don't really believe it happened.
Wivyx
Profile Joined May 2009
Norway624 Posts
July 23 2011 11:20 GMT
#522
On July 23 2011 20:19 Excludos wrote:
Another story from one of the survivors from the island.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080635

I'll start translating it as best I can. Meanwhile, use google translate.


Already been translated in this thread. Few pages back.
Wivyx
Profile Joined May 2009
Norway624 Posts
July 23 2011 11:21 GMT
#523
On July 23 2011 19:09 Typhus wrote:
Ok. I just translated the other survivor's tale going about. Teary eyed as hell right now. This is strong stuff. Hopefully i could keep the tone of post in my translation. + Show Spoiler +
I've woken up. I can't sleep anymore. i'm sitting in the living room. Feeling sorrow, anger, happiness, God i dont know what. It's just too many emotions, too many thoughts. I'm scared. I react to even the smallest sound. I'll now write about what happened at Utøya. Hva my eyes saw, what i felt, what i did. the words come straight from the hear, but i will keep out the names out of respect for my friends.

We had a crisis meeting in the main building after the explosions in Oslo. Afterwards there was a meeting for the members from the Oslo-area. After the meetings many, many of us were in and around the main building. Vi took comfort in the fact that we were safe on an island. No one knew hell would break loose here as well.

I was in the main hall when panic broke loose. I heard shots. I saw him firing. Everybody started running. My first thought was: "Why are the police shooting at us? What the hell?!" I ran into the small gathering room. People were running. Screaming. I was scared. I got into one of the rooms at the back of the building. We were many there. We were all laying on the floor. we hear more shots. Got more scared. I cried. I didn't understand anything. I saw my best friend through the window and wondered if I should go out to get him in. I didn't have time. I saw the fear in his eyes. We remained on the floor for several minutes. We agreed to not let anyone else in for fear of the killer. We heard more shots and decided to jump out the window. I was the last one and though: "I'm the last on out the window. I'm gonna die now. Im sure, but it's propably allright, at least i'll know the others are safe". I threw my bag out the window. Tried climbing down, but lost my grip. I landed hard on my left side. A boy helped me up. We ran into the woods. I looked around. "Is he here? Is he shooting at me? Does he see me?" A girl had broken her ankle. Another one was badly wounded. I tried to help before i headed for the water. I took cover behind some kind of brick wall. We were many. I prayed, prayed, prayed. I hoped that God was watching. I called my mom and told her we might not meet again, but that i would do everything to survive. I could hear the fear in her voice. Shed cried. It hust. I sent my dad a text, told him i loved him. I sent a text to another loved one. We kept in contact. I sent my best friend a text. He didn't answer. We heard more shots. Crept together. Did anything we could to stay warm. So many thoughts. I was scared. My dad called. I cried and told him i loved him. He said he was on his way with my brother to receive me when i got ashore or they got to the island. So many emotions, and so many thoughts. I prayed with all my heart. Some time passed. The others called their parents. Eventually we all started texting fearing the kille would hear us. I was thinking about my sister, who was away on vacation. How would i tell here how i was? what was happening to me? I updated twitter and facebook saying i was alive and "safe" for the time being. I wrote i was waiting for the police. People were jumping into the water and started swimming. I remained still. I decided i would play dead if he came. I wouldn't run or swim. I can't describe the fear, my thoughts or my emotions.

A man came. "I'm from the police". I kept still. Some yelled that he needed to prove it. I can't remember exactly what they said, but the killer started shooting. He reloaded. Fired some more. He shot those around med. I kept still thinking "It's over. He's here. He's going to take me. I'll die." People screamed. I heard others being shot. Others jumped in the water. I kept still. Phone in hand. I lay on top of the legs of a girl. Two others were lying over my legs. I remained still. Texts were coming in. My cell rang several times. I kept playing dead I acted dead for at least an hour. I carefully turned my head, looking for suvivors. I saw bodies. I saw blood. Fear. I decided to get up. I had been lying on a dead body. Two dead bodies had been lying on me. I had a guardian angel.

I didn't know if he would come back. I didn't have the courage to look at who had called or texted me. I ran for the water. took of my sweater. It was big. I thought it would be hard to swim with it. I considered taking my cell or letting it lay. I put it in my back pocket and went in. I saw several others in the water. They had swam far. Some had gathered around some kind of floating device, it looked like an inflatable boat. Loads of boats were picking up swimmers. I swam, swam and swam towards the floating thing. i screamed. Cried. Got cold. Thought about when i would drown. It got heavier and heavier. I prayed. I kept going. My arms were spent. I kept going on my back using only my legs. I started sinking. Went back to normal swimming. For a while i thought the inflatable boat was moving away from me. I screamed. Begged them to wait for me. I must have been seeing things. I swam some hundred metesrs before i reached it. We talked some. Told each other our names, were we came from. WHen the boats went past we screamed for help, but they picked up the swimmers first. A man in a boat came to us. he threw out life vests. I got one. Got it on me. I held on to the rubber boat until the same man came back and picked us up. Everyone got aboard. He started heading for shore. After a while the small boat started taking in water. I did everything i could to get it out, using a bucket. I got tired. A girl in the boat took over. We came to shore. We got blankets. Tears were building. I cried more. A woman hugged me. It felt so good. I was crying loudly. Sobbing. A man lent me his phone. I called my dad: "I'm alive. I made it. Im safe" I hung up. Cried more. We had to walk a while. Strangers took us in their cars and drove us to Sundvolden Hotell. I ran in to look for my best friend. I couldn't see him anywhere. I saw a female friend. I cried. We hugged for a long time. It felt good. I walked aoround, looking for friends. My heart was beating hard. I was still crying. I registered at the Police. Looked through the lists. I didn't if my best friend was a live. Couldn't find his name anywhere. I was scared. Someone gave me a blanket. Took off my wet socks. I was half naked. Someone gave me a coat. I tried to get myself together. Contacted my parents again. Dad and my big brother were on the way to get me. I drank some cocoa. Sat down. Thinking. Crying. I saw more of my friends. hugged them. Cried. Someone lent me a computer. I updated facebook and twitter again that I was safe. I was at the hotel for several hours before my family came. Looking for friends. Talked to a Priest. Told him what i'd seen. It was a good conversation. A paramedic looked at my wounds. Cleaned them. Time went. I was with some of my friends. everyone was talking about the same. How we had survived. What had happened. I asked several if they'd seen my best friends. Noone had. I was scared. thought it was my fault cause we hadn't stuck together. A friend got the key to a hotelroom. We sat there watching the news. Anger, sorrow, so many emotions going through us. My dad called, they had arrived. I took the elevator down. tan out to them. Hugged my brother and my dead for a long time. I cried. My brother cried. It was a good moment. I saw someone looking like my best friend. Shouted his name. He turned. It was him. We hugged for a long time. both of us crying we asked how we'd made it. After a while i registered abain and we drove home. Some others got a lift from us. My best friend came home with us. His brother was there with his best friend. People were gathered at my house. They wouldn't leave until they knew we were okay. We talked. I drank a glass of juice. Ate a Yoghurt. Talked with my mom and my family. Called my best female friend. It was a good call. She said: "I wasn't sure i would ever get this phone call." tears were welling up. We talked for a while. Afterwards i went to bed. It was three o'clock. Mom refused to let me sleep alone, so we slept together.

Some hours have passe. Im still in shock. It still hasnt sunk in. I've seen the bodies of my friends. Several friends are still missing. I'm happy i can swim. Happy to be alive. That God was watching out for me. So many emotions, so man thoughts. I think about the all the people who have lost someone. All the people i have lost. The hell that is and was on the island. This summers most beautiful adventure turned to Norways wors nightmare.


source: http://prableen.origo.no/-/bulletin/show/672218_helvete-paa-utoeya

Deleted User 108965
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1096 Posts
July 23 2011 11:21 GMT
#524
so sad . truly a horrific event. i will be praying for all of norway and the victim's families.
Disciple....Top 3 control in Clarion County
OneThreeOne
Profile Joined November 2010
Norway86 Posts
July 23 2011 11:21 GMT
#525
The bildr.no link in the OP doesn't seem to be working anymore, I think this is the same picture, but with a working link.

NSFW
This picture is very disturbing.


http://bildr.no/view/933061
WArped
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom4845 Posts
July 23 2011 11:22 GMT
#526
On July 23 2011 20:19 Excludos wrote:
Another story from one of the survivors from the island.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080635

I'll start translating it as best I can. Meanwhile, use google translate.


Thank you for the link, although it has already been translated earlier in this thread.
notwelldone
Profile Joined June 2010
92 Posts
July 23 2011 11:25 GMT
#527
Fucking horrible... 90 deaths... fuck
Losing is Fun
TALegion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1187 Posts
July 23 2011 11:25 GMT
#528
When I read the previous thread, I thought that it said that only about 8-10 people died. I guess they were talking about the bomb.

80 motherfucking innocent people...
The death sentence and Life in Prison is too good for the bastard who did this.
A person willing to die for a cause is a hero. A person willing to kill for a cause is a madman
Absentia
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom973 Posts
July 23 2011 11:25 GMT
#529
On July 23 2011 19:59 Grettin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 19:58 Absentia wrote:
Does anybody have any information on the security of the island?
Obviously there's been reports about the police taking a long time to get there but was there no security detail on the island itself?


No there wasn't. It was a SUMMER CAMP.


It was, at least from what I understand, a politically driven summer camp.
Even with that aside, I don't think expecting a decent security force to protect an island of youths is unreasonable.

On July 23 2011 19:59 Zarahtra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 19:58 Absentia wrote:
Does anybody have any information on the security of the island?
Obviously there's been reports about the police taking a long time to get there but was there no security detail on the island itself?

What would security have done? The man was dressed as a policeman, if there had been, the security center would've been the first place to say hi to.


If a security detail/guards had been able to save one of those lives after the firing had started, don't you think it would've been worth it?

On July 23 2011 20:00 Typhus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 19:58 Absentia wrote:
Does anybody have any information on the security of the island?
Obviously there's been reports about the police taking a long time to get there but was there no security detail on the island itself?

I think there was one or two security guards, but they have very limited options as far as this situation goes and the gunman was posing as a police officer.


Thanks.

As should be obvious by the question, I don't know what the security situation was like on the Island and nor do I know the limits for Norweigian security. To be honest, I have no idea what security is like for any summer camp anywhere. However, the fact that one (or two?) men have been seemingly able to unproblematically slaughter so many innocent people over an extended period of time is extremely disturbing.
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
July 23 2011 11:27 GMT
#530
Also a thing to think about which unfortunately is often forgotten: Imagine being a police officer or a paramedic arriving at the island and see this 'scene' http://www.bild.de/news/fotos/norwegen-massaker/oslo-fg-19013440.bild.html

must be totally horrible and unbelievably shattering for your psych..



This is truly a sad thing to happen. I hope we can get the reasons for this and at least understand why this happened..
hatred outlives the hateful
Aldehyde
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Sweden939 Posts
July 23 2011 11:27 GMT
#531
+ Show Spoiler +

On July 23 2011 20:15 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
This guy is not to be taken serious at all(talking of the person who said in USA this would not have happened). Everyone seeing the place this massacre took place quickly realizes unless on that small , where some kind of defensive forces no one could have stopped this guy right away from killing kids. I mean come on, why the illusion of ''right away'' anyway? Let alone after a horrendous bombing.


Concerning the stuff i said about death of children due to lack of water/food compared to this: All I want to say is this:


The last three days I saw on almost every newssite a big article about the food crisis in africa. Millions of people in danger and many dying on a daily basis. Now we have ~100 death and while it is somethind different do die in a shooting I just want to say how the media has already fucked us all up to some extent. Just showing how greatly unaccurate our view is. I mean certainly for someone being involved in this shooting (due to having friends, relatives) there its something completely different. But for the average person there should be no reason what so ever to find this more horrible or sad than the other stuff going on 'RIGHT NOW'.

I know this is about this particular disaster but I cant step away from mentioning what is truly sick about it and even though that might sound highly insulting in my opinion it is not this massacre itself but the fact the media dictates our views so immensely.

I mean there could be 10.000 death in africa now and the pictures would be as shocking as those we see now but we dont even spend thinking a second about it anymore because of 100 dead in norway. I find this disturbing and we almost never think about this in such a way so I dont think its entirely wrong to pick this up when its appropriate and you have some kind of ''comparisons''

I will now drop this particular thing, though. Just want u to make think about the ''grand picture''..

Once again: Sad sad thing & truly sorry for everyone directly and indirectly involved in this



I kind of agree with you but even I, as big a cynic as I am, understand why people care more about this than people dying in Africa.

First of all, this is something new. People have been dying in Africa for decades now, it's getting old. This is new.

Second of all, it's closer to home. Even for people in the States, this feels closer to home because people living in Norway has about the same lifestyle as Americans compared to Africans. It's easier to relate to them.

Third, and last, of all, this is a shooting, a man (or 2, whatever they say now) killed around a hundred people in cold blood, teenagers none the less. He even killed the kids begging for their lives. It's much more dramatic than the people dying of starvation in Africa.

So yeah, you're right, in a completely logical world without emotions, people wouldn't care much about this. But then again, we wouldn't care much about the people in Africa either.
Aim Here
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Scotland672 Posts
July 23 2011 11:28 GMT
#532
More news on the suspect's political alignment. He seems to have been a member of the Norwegian Progress Party and its youth wing., but became more extreme. Strangely I remember reading a forum post attributed to Breivik mentioning his radical past, as if he became less extreme over time.

http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/terrorsiktede-var-tidligere-medlem-av-fremskrittspartiet-3544743.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Party_(Norway)
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
July 23 2011 11:28 GMT
#533
On July 23 2011 20:14 LocusCoeruleus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 20:05 Probe1 wrote:
The BBC just updated the number to 91


Adjusting for population size, atleast twice as many lives were lost yesterday when compared to the 9/11 attacks. Most of them 15-16 year olds. Norway is a very small country indeed and we could have done very well without the travesty that was yesterday..

I'm not sure what sense it makes to adjust massacres in terms of national population.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Tokadub
Profile Joined August 2010
United States168 Posts
July 23 2011 11:29 GMT
#534
This whole situation is so horrible. I am actually surprised that this kind of stuff doesn't happen more often (or people attempting to) considering how messed up the world is and how psychotic people can be. But this guy took it to a whole new level. It's terrifying to think someone would ever do this to innocent defenseless teenagers.

But to everyone saying they can't believe he seemed "normal" on his WoW forum posts, and facebook etc...

Most people that actually seem messed up, scary, dangerous, or psychotic are not capable of actually doing something like this. Most of the worst types of killers seem to be normal people to even those close to them such as neighbors. An example being someone like Ted Bundy.

The most dangerous kinds of people usually appear to be normal. They are a sociopath:

A sociopath is somebody who exhibits sociopathy, who behaves in a way that suggests a lack of conscience. Unlike the average human, a sociopath does not feel any sense of guilt or remorse when committing morally wrong actions or actions that their society deems unacceptable. Because of this utter lack of fear for the sanctions of society, sociopaths take advantage of the social system and use manipulation and amoral behaviors to obtain their goals. The types of behaviors they exhibit are those that would make someone with a conscience uncomfortable.

I have met people like this before. They smile, pretend to be your friend, even will do nice things for you. And when you least expect it they will do horrible things either to you or someone you know. They are like an actor. They play a character that people will like, and use peoples trust to their own advantage. These are the worst kinds of people in the world. They usually are at least somewhat intelligent (some may even be genius) and therefor capable of doing monstrous things like what just happened in Norway.

It sickens me to know that the human brain is capable of such kinds of manipulation. I really hate anyone that displays signs of being a sociopath. Even if they never physically hurt people, these kinds of people are a disgrace to mankind. It is so much easier to mentally digest and except a murderer who is a rambling, drooling, raving, lunatic, and who looks scary as hell. But these clean cut academic types who pretend to be someone their not is way worst and the possibilities of what kinds of horrible things they are capable of is horrifying.

Does anyone else find it ironic how he seemed to blog about how it only takes a few muslims to hijack a plane? He seemed to take a stance against extreme violent actions of political, or religious parties. He used the reasoning that if one person of a certain group does something wrong then their all bad? But then he himself does something like this? I am just really confused about his motive for doing this because clearly their was one.

I really hope that something like this will not happen again for a long, long time. Makes me sad and angry.
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42416 Posts
July 23 2011 11:31 GMT
#535
On July 23 2011 20:25 Absentia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 19:59 Grettin wrote:
On July 23 2011 19:58 Absentia wrote:
Does anybody have any information on the security of the island?
Obviously there's been reports about the police taking a long time to get there but was there no security detail on the island itself?


No there wasn't. It was a SUMMER CAMP.


It was, at least from what I understand, a politically driven summer camp.
Even with that aside, I don't think expecting a decent security force to protect an island of youths is unreasonable.


It has been held there for 30 years, and nothing has been even close to happen. In Nordic it's pretty common that these kind of camps really doesn't need or have any guards because it's rare that something would happen unlike in countries like United States. After all it's a camp for KIDS for christ sake.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
taldarimAltar
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
973 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 11:32:58
July 23 2011 11:31 GMT
#536
On July 23 2011 20:14 LocusCoeruleus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 20:05 Probe1 wrote:
The BBC just updated the number to 91


Adjusting for population size, atleast twice as many lives were lost yesterday when compared to the 9/11 attacks. Most of them 15-16 year olds. Norway is a very small country indeed and we could have done very well without the travesty that was yesterday..


You can't really do it like that, 1 person is 1 person, both in Norway and the US.

On July 23 2011 20:15 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
This guy is not to be taken serious at all(talking of the person who said in USA this would not have happened). Everyone seeing the place this massacre took place quickly realizes unless on that small , where some kind of defensive forces no one could have stopped this guy right away from killing kids. I mean come on, why the illusion of ''right away'' anyway? Let alone after a horrendous bombing.


Concerning the stuff i said about death of children due to lack of water/food compared to this: All I want to say is this:


The last three days I saw on almost every newssite a big article about the food crisis in africa. Millions of people in danger and many dying on a daily basis. Now we have ~100 death and while it is somethind different do die in a shooting I just want to say how the media has already fucked us all up to some extent. Just showing how greatly unaccurate our view is. I mean certainly for someone being involved in this shooting (due to having friends, relatives) there its something completely different. But for the average person there should be no reason what so ever to find this more horrible or sad than the other stuff going on 'RIGHT NOW'.

I know this is about this particular disaster but I cant step away from mentioning what is truly sick about it and even though that might sound highly insulting in my opinion it is not this massacre itself but the fact the media dictates our views so immensely.

I mean there could be 10.000 death in africa now and the pictures would be as shocking as those we see now but we dont even spend thinking a second about it anymore because of 100 dead in norway. I find this disturbing and we almost never think about this in such a way so I dont think its entirely wrong to pick this up when its appropriate and you have some kind of ''comparisons''

I will now drop this particular thing, though. Just want u to make think about the ''grand picture''..

One again: Sad sad thing & truly sorry for everyone directly and indirectly involved in this


Well they are news stations after all, they focus on what they consider more "news-worthy" it's their job. No one's say what's happening in Africa is less important. The news stations make the news, the more the news reports on it, the bigger, more important the news sounds. They set the agenda. Since what happens in Africa happens continuously, it just isn't big news anymore. Not saying that it isn't as important, but it isn't sensational enough to be brought up every time it happens. The media is not "fucked" it's just catering to what people want, why do you think tabloids do so well?

But for the average person there should be no reason what so ever to find this more horrible or sad than the other stuff going on 'RIGHT NOW'.


It hits so much closer to home, it's just feels so different, so surreal, even though it may not be, but psychologically it's different.
crappen
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway1546 Posts
July 23 2011 11:31 GMT
#537
On July 23 2011 19:14 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 19:02 crappen wrote:
By destroying this man, executing your own vengeance and thirst for it, is a terrible solution. This man, Anders Behring, must be in extreme pain to do such things, he is already in hell.

Do not destroy yourself by having thoughts of vengeance. I hope we in Norway can find a good solution to this, and why not try to rehabilitate him if we think its a slight chance of posibility?

I hope we can find peace in all this, and not fall into the trap of fear.

You...feel sorry for him? Hope he can be rehabilitated and re-enter society?

I honestly don't even understand how someone could possibly want that for a guy who just mass murdered a bunch of children. If it was your daughter on her hands and knees begging him for her life before he killed her...he deserves better than what she got?

I just keep deleting comments that make me rage at the naivety of this. I dunno what to say. sorry.


Most of us think this guy wanted to spread fear in us, and to give some sort of message. Dont you see that what you are saying is full of fear? You are walking right into what he wanted.
I want this man to re-enter society as a healthy male again. If we can achieve this, the world is a great place with so much hope. What I am hoping for, seems impossible, but its what we in Norway believe in.
We want less fear, not more of it. Vengeance is a form of fear.

Scenario if someone close to me got hurt
+ Show Spoiler +

If I had a daughter, and she got raped and killed, I would work so hard to find a way to forgive this man, to understand and hope that he too, would find peace and come back from the terrible things he had done.


PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 11:33:32
July 23 2011 11:32 GMT
#538
On July 23 2011 20:29 Tokadub wrote:


Does anyone else find it ironic how he seemed to blog about how it only takes a few muslims to hijack a plane? He seemed to take a stance against extreme violent actions of political, or religious parties. He used the reasoning that if one person of a certain group does something wrong then their all bad? But then he himself does something like this? I am just really confused about his motive for doing this because clearly their was one.
.




Maybe he was amazed by the fact and not repulsed ?
hatred outlives the hateful
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8279 Posts
July 23 2011 11:33 GMT
#539
On July 23 2011 20:22 WArped wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 20:19 Excludos wrote:
Another story from one of the survivors from the island.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080635

I'll start translating it as best I can. Meanwhile, use google translate.


Thank you for the link, although it has already been translated earlier in this thread.


Ah, nvm me then. Thats what I get for not reading throughtly.
Traeon
Profile Joined July 2010
Austria366 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 11:33:58
July 23 2011 11:33 GMT
#540
On July 23 2011 20:04 MaGic~PhiL
Or how exactly does the USA handle a guy with a weapon and the will to kill people. He just goes somewhere where many people are and no one ever expects a shooting. What can you do? Its just not stoppable unless you want to live in world of total observation or worse.
Seriously. Kinda makes me angry to read your studd which just makes no sense.


Sorry but what you're doing here is abusing this tragedy for your own agenda.
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