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Keep it civil guys. Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans. The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally. Confirmation was as follows - On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive. - photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis - confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan. This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death. | ||
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
On May 02 2011 19:56 EternaL_9 wrote: People weren't afraid of Osama? the man who essentially killed thousands of americans? it's a fine comparison.. No, people were not afraid of a Taliban occupation and of Osama committing genocide. Sorry, they're just different ball groups. 3000 dead is obviously a tragedy, but don't compare Osama's terrorism to World War II. | ||
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Fiend13
Germany140 Posts
On May 02 2011 19:57 Fraidnot wrote: Well it weakens al-Qaeda for starters, and acts as an example to others who hope to attack America and get away with it. Because the goal of fundamentalist is to "get away with it"..... No offense sir but this attitude is exactly why these terrorists still target the USA. Some of your people actually belief that you can go to war against people who have absolutely nothing to lose and win. Violence will never be the answer to terrorism because all it does is creating more terrorists. You much rather have to persuade the people they live with that you are of no danger to them and help them to recover economically. This way all radical elements would lose their support and could not sustain their actions. Or you can go fight another 50 wars and just kill a few billion people. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On May 02 2011 19:54 Fraidnot wrote: Oh, wow somebody who actually believes in the power of a system that has absolutely no power over it's strongest members. We believe in what the UN and the international court stand for. It's sad that some governments ignore it, but if every country would just join the UN and follow its laws and rules, there is no doubt in my mind that the world would be a far better place. The strongest members should be the ones standing closest to the rules, not the ones ignoring them because noone can't do anything about them breaking the rules anyways. "From great power comes great responsibility", etc. Killing Osama might have been the easiest way, but it was definatly not the best way. It was an act of vengeance, not justice... and we all know that vengeance never came to a good end. Also, with the "throw a party because Hitler/Osama is dead" comparisions: - Hitler killed himself, Osama was killed. - Hitlers death ended a war, Osamas death probably started one. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
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DorN
Germany90 Posts
On May 02 2011 20:07 DoXa wrote: They for sure have a way to do it anonymously. And it was raised to $50 Million not to long ago. As far as i know these rewards do not include the capture by soldiers. Was the same with Saddam. | ||
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cptKewk
Sweden87 Posts
Also imagine being the guy who pulled the trigger. as a post before me mentioned he would be a target for Al-Qaeda but a Hero in the west, what to do, what to do. | ||
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Awesomeness
Germany1361 Posts
Sorry, but saying that outlawing child pornography is compromising the (UN) human rights by any means is just ridiculous. The opposite is true. You should probably read them. User was warned for this post | ||
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Electric.Jesus
Germany755 Posts
On May 02 2011 20:02 cdhstarbuck wrote: So if I am excluding Bin Laden from the human rights declaration (in the sense he didn't get a trial because thats what the discussion is about; I know he was shot and killed in a firefight) I am against human rights in general? What the f**? By that logic, a ton of governments around the world don't give a *** about the human rights declaration. Just thinking about free speech and governments censoring politically wrong views or child pornography. Wikileaks also pops to mind. Don't get me wrong, some things are bad - out of the examples above child pornography should be censored in my opinion. However I very rarely see people complain about the censoring of those things. Even more rare are the people who say that the governments are against human rights altogether because of that. Summary: Saying that people are against human rights because they make exceptions in extreme cases is ridiculous. I highlighted the relevant words. Yes, it does mean exactly that. Generality of human rights means that you cannot make exceptions. The fact that many people and nations do, is truly sad, but it does not change the fact that if you truly subscribe to the idea of general human rights, they MUST necessarily apply to everyone. | ||
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Fraidnot
United States824 Posts
On May 02 2011 19:51 Awesomeness wrote: no. You either believe in universal human rights or you don't. If you exclude anyone from them, they become meaningless and you can justify just about anything, because you are following your own moral code. Once again: Bin Laden was killed in a gunfight, so this rules don't apply here so his rights were not violated by this standards. That's not true, because "your own moral code" (which may be shared by many people) is still a moral code that has rules and restrictions that don't allow for the justification of everything. Universal human rights was written up by a man, he was just about as authoritative on the issue as just about any other man, and so it doesn't make it a universal law that all men should blindly follow his moral code. | ||
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GiantEnemyCrab
Canada503 Posts
On May 02 2011 20:06 Electric.Jesus wrote: Could we please stop the Hitler comparison? This is totally stupid for two reasons: a) compared to Hitler Bin Laden was only a minor Pain in the ass. Sure, he killed 3.000 people in the US which is a vicious crime and a human tragedy. But lets face it, Hitler had a whole nation and several allied nations behind him which allowed him to produce death tolls in the millions. Whereas a terrorist can only create the fear of killing people on a grander scale, a tyrant leader of a powerful nation can actually do it. b) Hitlers death was a result of Germany and its allies losing the war. He killed himself because all was lost for the Axis. This is not the case with Bin Laden; his network still exists. This is also the reaons why some people here correctly point out that celebrating Hitler's death was essentially celebrating the end of the war, since Hitler's death was symbolic for that. Bin Ladens death, however, is not equivalent to victory over Al-quaeda (even if the media want to convince you of the oppsite). and we knew hitler was 100% behind the death at the jews. same cannot be said about osama, like i dont know 100% who is truely responsible for 9/11. we just dont kno, and thatz why him dying kinda made me upset (he deserved it ofcouse) since i wanted the man to go on trial and see what he has to say. | ||
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Imres
515 Posts
On May 02 2011 20:02 cdhstarbuck wrote: So if I am excluding Bin Laden from the human rights declaration (in the sense he didn't get a trial because thats what the discussion is about; I know he was shot and killed in a firefight) I am against human rights in general? What the f**? By that logic, a ton of governments around the world don't give a *** about the human rights declaration. Just thinking about free speech and governments censoring politically wrong views or child pornography. Wikileaks also pops to mind. Don't get me wrong, some things are bad - out of the examples above child pornography should be censored in my opinion. However I very rarely see people complain about the censoring of those things. Even more rare are the people who say that the governments are against human rights altogether because of that. Summary: Saying that people are against human rights because they make exceptions in extreme cases is ridiculous. 'Cause you seriously think most government give a shit about human rights? Sometimes it's useful (like in Lybia for French president) but most of the time it's bullshit that prevent them from doing what they want to do. An US example, Guantanamo. It's totally against HR, but freaking useful for the US government. | ||
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blomsterjohn
Norway463 Posts
On May 02 2011 20:10 Fraidnot wrote: That's not true, because "your own moral code" (which may be shared by many people) is still a moral code that has rules and restrictions that don't allow for the justification of everything. Universal human rights was written up by a man, he was just about as authoritative on the issue as just about any other man, and so it doesn't make it a universal law that all men should blindly follow his moral code. .....then what you are believing in isn't universial human rights. edit: or talking about etc | ||
zatic
Zurich15326 Posts
On May 02 2011 19:02 Angra wrote: If Germany were in the exact situation the US has been in with this, Germany's citizens would react in literally the exact same way. Sorry. Now please stop with all this country superiority bullshit. No they would not. Please. Even if that nuke Al quaida is babbling about blows up in Munich Germans will ask for an faster exit out of nuclear power rather than for the death of the attackers. And I am only half joking. | ||
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Ender985
Spain910 Posts
Plus, a lot of contradictory information: he was killed by a shot in the head when he was 'resisting', but the attack was conducted by 2 helicopters? And one of the 2 went down but 'no american was harmed'? And all this happened on friday, but today he has already beed buried (dumped) to the sea? Given that we have not seen any image of him for the last 5 years, I give much more credit to the reports that he died of tuberculosis back in 2003. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Imres
515 Posts
On May 02 2011 20:10 Fraidnot wrote: That's not true, because "your own moral code" (which may be shared by many people) is still a moral code that has rules and restrictions that don't allow for the justification of everything. Universal human rights was written up by a man, he was just about as authoritative on the issue as just about any other man, and so it doesn't make it a universal law that all men should blindly follow his moral code. They weren't produce by a man. They're the produce of modernity and political liberalism, which took, at least 2 centuries and dozens of men. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On May 02 2011 20:10 GiantEnemyCrab wrote: and we knew hitler was 100% behind the death at the jews. same cannot be said about osama, like i dont know 100% who is truely responsible for 9/11. we just dont kno, and thatz why him dying kinda made me upset (he deserved it ofcouse) since i wanted the man to go on trial and see what he has to say. he said in a interview years ago that he wasnt behind the attacks... | ||
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partisan
United States783 Posts
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Awesomeness
Germany1361 Posts
On May 02 2011 20:10 Fraidnot wrote: That's not true, because "your own moral code" (which may be shared by many people) is still a moral code that has rules and restrictions that don't allow for the justification of everything. Universal human rights was written up by a man, he was just about as authoritative on the issue as just about any other man, and so it doesn't make it a universal law that all men should blindly follow his moral code. I believe the human race should have basic ground rules on how to threat each other that should be followed by everyone.(also by the governments) If everyone would live by his moral code, we would live in an anarchy. I think the UN-human rights are the best paper on setting up this ground rules yet. I would like you to read them and then tell me the article you disagree with. | ||
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Fraidnot
United States824 Posts
On May 02 2011 20:14 blomsterjohn wrote: .....then what you are believing in isn't universial human rights. edit: or talking about etc I think that's been established already | ||
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partisan
United States783 Posts
On May 02 2011 20:15 ImFromPortugal wrote: he said in a interview years ago that he wasnt behind the attacks... There are tapes of him bragging about the attacks, where in gods name do you people find this stuff. | ||
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