Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans. The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally.
Confirmation was as follows - On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive. - photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis - confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan.
This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death.
Bin Laden living in a luscious compound just outside a Pakistani army training cam, giving money to children and being an overall pillar of the community...
On May 02 2011 18:54 LedFarmer wrote: I have lost a lot of respect for Europeans after reading some responses in this thread.
My brother was murdered, and his killer was never put to justice.
I understand that killing the person who killed my brother would not bring him back.
However it would make me feel good knowing that the person who took my brothers life was no longer living.
My guess is a lot of people here in this thread have never had someone close to them killed, or they would have a different perspective on this issue.
Also lots of people are looking at Americans celebrating the death of Osama, actually what is occurring is the celebration of justice, apparently a concept that some people don't understand.
Execution isn't justice. But I understand that the US has a different viewpoint on this matter.
If Germany were in the exact situation the US has been in with this, Germany's citizens would react in literally the exact same way. Sorry. Now please stop with all this country superiority bullshit.
No they would not. Please. Even if that nuke Al quaida is babbling about blows up in Munich German's will ask for an faster exit out of nuclear power rather than for the death of the attackers. And I am only half joking.
Based on this thread I more than half believe you. Germans in particular seem to be very much against celebrations, death of Osama.. Well, the whole situation. Funny how different cultures are and how much they affect the people's views, even neighbouring nations aren't as extreme.
Solely based on this thread, I'm obviously implying I'm an expert on Germany.
I think Germany had it's share of violence in the past. Most people i know hate violence in any form.
Of course there are always people that want violence, even in Germany. We have violent protests, hooligans, soldiers that do the same bad stuff as some of the bad US soldiers, etc... but the general population seems to prefer a peaceful co-existance.
This might also be related to the many cultures that come together in germany. We have a lot of immigrants from a lot of different countries, which teaches respect to cultures that are just different than the one we might be used to... and we get disturbed by the reports of people that can't live together with people of other cultural origin.
PS: Yes, i might be generalizing here, but it's my personal experience with the people in northern germany... also, the crazy people from bavaria that are usually confused with germans are a different story :p
On May 02 2011 20:06 Petruccio wrote: How is it possible that these days someone still believes that Bin Laden was behind the attacks of 9/11??? Maybe it is simple fear of not being with the masses. Or maybe it is about a discomfort zone you are getting in if you assume that the authorities may lie. Or maybe just don't care... Today we know that neither Bin Laden nor US government were behind the attacks. At least you may know, if you wish to know. This kind of information cannot come from an official source of information for obvious reason, so you have to do all research yourself because no one can be trusted 100% on this topic. US government, even if did not plan the attacks, now has to hide the truth anyway due to many reasons. The best explanation of the event is found so far is from Dimitri Khalezov. There are many 9/11 conspiracy theories, but this one explains everything and cannot be debunked. You even do not find it on "debunking 9/11 conspiracy" web sites, or here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories, because the best they can do - pretend it does not exist and do not attract attention to it. Book - http://www.dimitri-khalezov-video.com/Dimitri_Khalezov_book_download_Third_Truth_911thology.htm Video (4 hours!, a lot of information) Or simply google "nuclear demolition" to find finally a theory that beats the official and all "truthers" theories. Now I am curious to understand why they "killed" Bin Laden. I doubt he was really killed, do not see ano reason for it at all. He cooperated with CIA all the time. But obviously there is a reason to SAY that he was killed. Why, any thoughts?
Create another terrorist attack in the united states. (if one happens in the comming months you'll know) and going into full on war.
On May 02 2011 20:06 Electric.Jesus wrote: Could we please stop the Hitler comparison? This is totally stupid for two reasons:
a) compared to Hitler Bin Laden was only a minor Pain in the ass. Sure, he killed 3.000 people in the US which is a vicious crime and a human tragedy. But lets face it, Hitler had a whole nation and several allied nations behind him which allowed him to produce death tolls in the millions. Whereas a terrorist can only create the fear of killing people on a grander scale, a tyrant leader of a powerful nation can actually do it. b) Hitlers death was a result of Germany and its allies losing the war. He killed himself because all was lost for the Axis. This is not the case with Bin Laden; his network still exists. This is also the reaons why some people here correctly point out that celebrating Hitler's death was essentially celebrating the end of the war, since Hitler's death was symbolic for that. Bin Ladens death, however, is not equivalent to victory over Al-quaeda (even if the media want to convince you of the oppsite).
and we knew hitler was 100% behind the death at the jews. same cannot be said about osama, like i dont know 100% who is truely responsible for 9/11. we just dont kno, and thatz why him dying kinda made me upset (he deserved it ofcouse) since i wanted the man to go on trial and see what he has to say.
he said in a interview years ago that he wasnt behind the attacks...
There are tapes of him bragging about the attacks, where in gods name do you people find this stuff.
Wikipedia...
Osama bin Laden statements after 9/11
The FBI lists bin Laden as one of the "10 Most Wanted" in connection with several incidents including the USS Cole bombing and the 1998 United States embassy bombings in East Africa. The FBI's "FBI Most Wanted Terrorists" poster does not specifically hang responsibility for 9/11 on bin Laden, instead it only states "Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world."[56]
Messages issued by bin Laden after September 11, 2001 praised the attacks, and explained their motivation while at first denying any involvement.[57] On September 16, 2001, an Al Jazeera news presenter read a message purportedly signed by Osama bin Laden, in which the following words were stated:
I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation.[58][59][60]
In an interview with Osama bin Laden, published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat Karachi on September 28, 2001, he stated: "I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act."[61] There was reportedly no way to prove the e-mail published in Pakistan came from bin Laden. The Taliban denied he had access to any communications.[62][63]
On May 02 2011 19:56 NPHarris wrote: And this will change what?
Well it weakens al-Qaeda for starters, and acts as an example to others who hope to attack America and get away with it.
Because the goal of fundamentalist is to "get away with it".....
No offense sir but this attitude is exactly why these terrorists still target the USA. Some of your people actually belief that you can go to war against people who have absolutely nothing to lose and win. Violence will never be the answer to terrorism because all it does is creating more terrorists. You much rather have to persuade the people they live with that you are of no danger to them and help them to recover economically. This way all radical elements would lose their support and could not sustain their actions. Or you can go fight another 50 wars and just kill a few billion people.
I cant agree more with you
Also I hope that people will not only think about its death but also the many inocent lives it has cost to get him (not only the american lives or military casualtys)
On May 02 2011 18:54 LedFarmer wrote: I have lost a lot of respect for Europeans after reading some responses in this thread.
My brother was murdered, and his killer was never put to justice.
I understand that killing the person who killed my brother would not bring him back.
However it would make me feel good knowing that the person who took my brothers life was no longer living.
My guess is a lot of people here in this thread have never had someone close to them killed, or they would have a different perspective on this issue.
Also lots of people are looking at Americans celebrating the death of Osama, actually what is occurring is the celebration of justice, apparently a concept that some people don't understand.
Execution isn't justice. But I understand that the US has a different viewpoint on this matter.
If Germany were in the exact situation the US has been in with this, Germany's citizens would react in literally the exact same way. Sorry. Now please stop with all this country superiority bullshit.
No they would not. Please. Even if that nuke Al quaida is babbling about blows up in Munich German's will ask for an faster exit out of nuclear power rather than for the death of the attackers. And I am only half joking.
People aren't celebrating. They're happy.. that's all. To say your country wouldn't be happy AT ALL is ridiculously biased and stupid. Good night.
I don't know about you but I am in P-A-R-T-Y mode.
On May 02 2011 20:28 Butterz wrote: So now the American and Britian forces will leave Afghanistan or not??
Killing Osama Bin Laden is not the purpose of the war in Afghanistan...Al Qaeda =/= the Taliban. They had an alliance but in 2008 the Taliban severed ties.
Then again I wonder if any of us can state what the purpose of the war in Afghanistan definitively is. Rarely is the actual reason for an invasion of a foreign country given.
On May 02 2011 19:56 NPHarris wrote: And this will change what?
Well it weakens al-Qaeda for starters, and acts as an example to others who hope to attack America and get away with it.
Because the goal of fundamentalist is to "get away with it".....
No offense sir but this attitude is exactly why these terrorists still target the USA. Some of your people actually belief that you can go to war against people who have absolutely nothing to lose and win. Violence will never be the answer to terrorism because all it does is creating more terrorists. You much rather have to persuade the people they live with that you are of no danger to them and help them to recover economically. This way all radical elements would lose their support and could not sustain their actions. Or you can go fight another 50 wars and just kill a few billion people.
I cant agree more with you
Also I hope that people will not only think about its death but also the many inocent lives it has cost to get him (not only the american lives or military casualtys)
"Just some perspective amid the frenzy over symbolic victories.
War in Iraq Estimated cost: $806,000,000,000+, Coalition Deaths : 4,770, Estimated Civilian Deaths : 98,380–107,369,
War in Afghanistan Estimated cost: $444,000,000,000+, Coalition Deaths: 2,441, Estimated Civilian Deaths: 14,000-34,000 note: Afghanistan civilian death figures are estimated from addition of figures of deaths per year (2003-2010) from different sources."
On May 02 2011 20:06 Electric.Jesus wrote: Could we please stop the Hitler comparison? This is totally stupid for two reasons:
a) compared to Hitler Bin Laden was only a minor Pain in the ass. Sure, he killed 3.000 people in the US which is a vicious crime and a human tragedy. But lets face it, Hitler had a whole nation and several allied nations behind him which allowed him to produce death tolls in the millions. Whereas a terrorist can only create the fear of killing people on a grander scale, a tyrant leader of a powerful nation can actually do it. b) Hitlers death was a result of Germany and its allies losing the war. He killed himself because all was lost for the Axis. This is not the case with Bin Laden; his network still exists. This is also the reaons why some people here correctly point out that celebrating Hitler's death was essentially celebrating the end of the war, since Hitler's death was symbolic for that. Bin Ladens death, however, is not equivalent to victory over Al-quaeda (even if the media want to convince you of the oppsite).
and we knew hitler was 100% behind the death at the jews. same cannot be said about osama, like i dont know 100% who is truely responsible for 9/11. we just dont kno, and thatz why him dying kinda made me upset (he deserved it ofcouse) since i wanted the man to go on trial and see what he has to say.
he said in a interview years ago that he wasnt behind the attacks...
There are tapes of him bragging about the attacks, where in gods name do you people find this stuff.
Wikipedia...
Osama bin Laden statements after 9/11
The FBI lists bin Laden as one of the "10 Most Wanted" in connection with several incidents including the USS Cole bombing and the 1998 United States embassy bombings in East Africa. The FBI's "FBI Most Wanted Terrorists" poster does not specifically hang responsibility for 9/11 on bin Laden, instead it only states "Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world."[56]
Messages issued by bin Laden after September 11, 2001 praised the attacks, and explained their motivation while at first denying any involvement.[57] On September 16, 2001, an Al Jazeera news presenter read a message purportedly signed by Osama bin Laden, in which the following words were stated:
I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation.[58][59][60]
In an interview with Osama bin Laden, published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat Karachi on September 28, 2001, he stated: "I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act."[61] There was reportedly no way to prove the e-mail published in Pakistan came from bin Laden. The Taliban denied he had access to any communications.[62][63]
Doesn't change the fact he was the leader of a terrorist organization that has killed numerous people over the years.
I can't believe you'd actually believe what he said is true rofl.
Why not?.. normally when terrorists achieve that kind of stuff they will brag about it and shove it in the face of the world...extremists dont care about the consequences they are not afraid of dying in the name of their cause... did you believe when bush said there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq?...i thought so.
On May 02 2011 20:28 Butterz wrote: So now the American and Britian forces will leave Afghanistan or not??
Killing Osama Bin Laden is not the purpose of the war in Afghanistan...Al Qaeda =/= the Taliban. They had an alliance but in 2008 the Taliban severed ties.
Then again I wonder if any of us can state what the purpose of the war in Afghanistan definitively is. Rarely is the actual reason for an invasion of a foreign country given.
Opium. The taliban unfortunetaly (for them) stop the production of it when they came to power, leading to some problem with Western drug supply. Serioulsy, it's true, Le Monde Diplomatique revealed it like 5years ago with figures which prove that US encouraged opium production contrary to the taliban.
On May 02 2011 16:05 Drewx wrote: Wow crazy times we live in. These scenes from the States look crazy would never expect to see anything like that where I live.
If Australia were put into the exact circumstances that the US is currently, the reaction would be exactly the same.
We aren't monsters for celebrating the death of a monster.
ppl are monsters for celebrating any man's death, if that's what they are actually celebrating
he was born a child, he had a mother and father and hopes and dreams. he had challenges and successes and love and fear and hate. that's reality. he was just a man like you or me and now he is dead.
I'm going to have to consider your point for some time as it has struck a cord with me. However I find myself torn massively. I have to ask, if only rhetorically; how can I not be happy he is gone from this world? His existence represented so much I stand against. Given the opportunity (not realistic I know) I surely would have killed him too. If that makes me flawed as a person....then I don't know what to say to that.
fake announcement is a fake, pics or never happened, "hey look we killed osama ! too bad u cant see it cuz we threw his body into the ocean" convenient story, nothing more.
On May 02 2011 20:06 Electric.Jesus wrote: Could we please stop the Hitler comparison? This is totally stupid for two reasons:
a) compared to Hitler Bin Laden was only a minor Pain in the ass. Sure, he killed 3.000 people in the US which is a vicious crime and a human tragedy. But lets face it, Hitler had a whole nation and several allied nations behind him which allowed him to produce death tolls in the millions. Whereas a terrorist can only create the fear of killing people on a grander scale, a tyrant leader of a powerful nation can actually do it. b) Hitlers death was a result of Germany and its allies losing the war. He killed himself because all was lost for the Axis. This is not the case with Bin Laden; his network still exists. This is also the reaons why some people here correctly point out that celebrating Hitler's death was essentially celebrating the end of the war, since Hitler's death was symbolic for that. Bin Ladens death, however, is not equivalent to victory over Al-quaeda (even if the media want to convince you of the oppsite).
and we knew hitler was 100% behind the death at the jews. same cannot be said about osama, like i dont know 100% who is truely responsible for 9/11. we just dont kno, and thatz why him dying kinda made me upset (he deserved it ofcouse) since i wanted the man to go on trial and see what he has to say.
he said in a interview years ago that he wasnt behind the attacks...
There are tapes of him bragging about the attacks, where in gods name do you people find this stuff.
Wikipedia...
Osama bin Laden statements after 9/11
The FBI lists bin Laden as one of the "10 Most Wanted" in connection with several incidents including the USS Cole bombing and the 1998 United States embassy bombings in East Africa. The FBI's "FBI Most Wanted Terrorists" poster does not specifically hang responsibility for 9/11 on bin Laden, instead it only states "Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world."[56]
Messages issued by bin Laden after September 11, 2001 praised the attacks, and explained their motivation while at first denying any involvement.[57] On September 16, 2001, an Al Jazeera news presenter read a message purportedly signed by Osama bin Laden, in which the following words were stated:
I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation.[58][59][60]
In an interview with Osama bin Laden, published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat Karachi on September 28, 2001, he stated: "I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act."[61] There was reportedly no way to prove the e-mail published in Pakistan came from bin Laden. The Taliban denied he had access to any communications.[62][63]
Doesn't change the fact he was the leader of a terrorist organization that has killed numerous people over the years.
I can't believe you'd actually believe what he said is true rofl.
Why not?.. normally when terrorists achieve that kind of stuff they will brag about it and shove it in the face of the world...extremists dont care about the consequences they are not afraid of dying in the name of their cause... did you believe when bush said there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq?...i thought so.
So, you're ignoring the numerous tapes that bin laden has made accepting responsibility for the 9/11 attacks, and you're entire basis for your arguement is an article from wikipedia?
I'm not saying Bin laden wasn't responsible for the attacks on 9/11. No I didn't belive bush, why would I? There was no evidence indicating Iraq had WOMD's.
On May 02 2011 19:28 FinBenton wrote: This doesnt change anything and seeing people CELEBRATE after someone dies is just SICK and makes me sad.
So every year you mourn the passing of Adolf Hitler?
And you throw a party?
I'm sure parties were thrown when Hitler was killed. Hitler, along with Osama, were mass murderers of innocent people.
He's the leader of Al'Qaeda, the people we are AT WAR with. Killing their leader DOES mark an achievement and step forward in the war. If Al'qaeda killed Obama it would be an achievement for them too.
People aren't celebrating the mere FACT that he was killed. They're celebrating the fact that this is a step forward in the war, at least at a moral standpoint. Americans, who've had friends / neighbors over seas fighting everyday in this war DESERVE to celebrate this achievement. Saying otherwise is pretty idiotic, and is just a way for you to get attention by flaming this thread.
If I were to say to every jew back when Hitler was killed who was elated, "how dare you celebrate this MANS death! Shame on you!" is fucking stupid.
TLDR there's a bunch of attention whore's in this thread who have found a way to get attention - by ridiculing anyone who is happy Osama is gone.
Wow this argument is ridiculous.
With Hitler - people were celebrating the end of the war, rather than Hitler dying per se - otherwise there would have been parties at the conclusion of the Nuremburg war trials. Similarly, when Japan surrendered, were people celebrating the deaths of 150 000 - 250 000 people, or the end of WW2?
It's harder to make that argument for Osama. The reality is killing Bin Laden is probably not going to have a significant impact in Iraq or Afghanistan. As an outsider, I don't see his death as a symbolic victory, so I don't really the logical reason to celebrate.
I can see how to people who see his death as a symbolic victory would find cause to celebrate, but I still find it distasteful.
I think the problem is, all of you outside of the US think all of america is celebrating right now.. fucking no. It's on the news. Yeah there's some people on capital hill being retards as usual.. but overall it's a reason to be happy about the war and our government. Seeing one video of idiot tea partyers celebrating shouldn't make you think it's a fkn party over here TT
The problem with all you from the US is that you think that all of the people outside of the US thinks that you all are celebrating.
See what I did there?
Honestly though, you have a point (although I question your wording). I know many here from Sweden that have opinions about the US. The most notable thing is, they have never been to the US. The people that have usually have a more reasonable perspective about what is or isn't American. I blame the media. (Same are probably true the other way around as well)
This pretty much. Most of the Eurofags trolling this thread simply have no clue and do not stand for "Europeans" in general.
Other than that please report offensive and flame baiting posts. This is getting worse than a live report both in post quality and pace.
On May 02 2011 20:41 inermis wrote: fake announcement is a fake, pics or never happened, "hey look we killed osama ! too bad u cant see it cuz we threw his body into the ocean" convenient story, nothing more.
On May 02 2011 20:41 inermis wrote: fake announcement is a fake, pics or never happened, "hey look we killed osama ! too bad u cant see it cuz we threw his body into the ocean" convenient story, nothing more.
EPT
