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Keep it civil guys.
Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans.
The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally.
Confirmation was as follows
- On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive.
- photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis
- confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan.
This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death. |
On May 02 2011 19:48 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:39 Fraidnot wrote:On May 02 2011 19:38 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:35 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:32 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:30 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:27 blomsterjohn wrote:On May 02 2011 19:23 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:21 Zerokaiser wrote:On May 02 2011 19:16 Awesomeness wrote:
[quote]
Rights stop being universal, if you can relinquish them. This gives the government the freedom to do whatever they want, saying _everyone_ who is against them has "relinquished" his rights. I think you need to draw a line there, if you consider yourself a democrat and actually believe in the decleration of human rights. "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood." We have rights to protect our fellow human beings from being subject to mistreatment, and to give everybody the ability to live their lives freely. Osama Bin Laden had those rights like anybody else. When you make the conscious choice to violate those rights and take away the lives of people, you are no longer free and equal with mankind. That's my personal opinion. Well said. Bin Laden had his until he infringed on the rights of others by eliminating their ability to enjoy those rights. A price must be paid Why do I feel like this is the same'ish as "I believe in free speech, except for some stuff" Doesn't feel good either. There are limits to free speech, and they are extreme cases. Any idea taken to an absolute extreme can be troublesome. The idea that a person can murder thousands and not be brought to justice is confounding. He was intent on fighting to the very last bullet and he fired on the team that came to arrest him. Self defense in the course of executing a legitimate arrest is something that's not usually questioned. So why is George W. Bush still not brought to justice then? He murdered thousands of innocent civilians in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Nobody has ever been prosecuted accidental civilian deaths that result in war, at least as far as I'm aware. Actually it was during an invasion, which was even illegal in the case of Iraq. Since when has war been a legal matter? Since the UN and the international court in den haag?
War is not only a legal matter but business for many.
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On May 02 2011 19:47 whatdoido wrote:
Ten years, no sightings of Bin Laden, no eyewitness reports, no specific allegations of location in public media, only tapes; Osama Bin Laden long dead.
how convenient that bin laden can never testify.
AlJazeera pushing line that pseudo-Osama Bin Laden's residence in Abottabad military zone proves Pakistan army, ISI knew where he was.
seems like an attack on pakistan
US media report alleged Bin Laden buried at sea, no photos, no proof, just assertions by notorious liars of Obama regime-who believes this?
Notorious liars eh?
They've repeatedly stated they have photos to be released along with DNA evidence.
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On May 02 2011 19:43 Fraidnot wrote:
Locke died along time ago. Just because someone believes that someone shouldn't have human rights doesn't mean he can't believe that other people should have them.
no.
You either believe in universal human rights or you don't. If you exclude anyone from them, they become meaningless and you can justify just about anything, because you are following your own moral code.
Once again: Bin Laden was killed in a gunfight, so this rules don't apply here so his rights were not violated by this standards.
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I somehow didn't care as much about this news than I thought I would. Saddam Husseins capture made more of an impression to me.. especially because they caught him alive and he was put 'on trial' etc. Would have loved to see Osama being put on trial at the International Court in The Hague.
Anyhow, can't say I'm mourning this man is dead
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On May 02 2011 19:49 partisan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:44 Imres wrote:On May 02 2011 19:41 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:38 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:35 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:32 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:30 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:27 blomsterjohn wrote:On May 02 2011 19:23 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:21 Zerokaiser wrote:
[quote]
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."
We have rights to protect our fellow human beings from being subject to mistreatment, and to give everybody the ability to live their lives freely. Osama Bin Laden had those rights like anybody else. When you make the conscious choice to violate those rights and take away the lives of people, you are no longer free and equal with mankind. That's my personal opinion. Well said. Bin Laden had his until he infringed on the rights of others by eliminating their ability to enjoy those rights. A price must be paid Why do I feel like this is the same'ish as "I believe in free speech, except for some stuff" Doesn't feel good either. There are limits to free speech, and they are extreme cases. Any idea taken to an absolute extreme can be troublesome. The idea that a person can murder thousands and not be brought to justice is confounding. He was intent on fighting to the very last bullet and he fired on the team that came to arrest him. Self defense in the course of executing a legitimate arrest is something that's not usually questioned. So why is George W. Bush still not brought to justice then? He murdered thousands of innocent civilians in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Nobody has ever been prosecuted accidental civilian deaths that result in war, at least as far as I'm aware. Actually it was during an invasion, which was even illegal in the case of Iraq. Technically the UN signed off on Iraq, which gave it legal cover. That being said, it was a stupid mess that I marched against for years. You'll never hear me defend the wisdom of that war but we did get approval first. France (one of the few things we can be proud of :D) vetoed the decision. The 2003 resolution was vetoed, but the original disarmament resolution from 1991 along with resolution 1441 were used as justification. In the states we call that a loophole, or lawyers earning their pay. Apparently in some parts of the world its considered illegal
Didn't know that, but we can all agree that the US doesn't actually need UN approval. That may be good or bad, depends of the side you consider it, so lawyers can argue for years to justify or blame the intervention.
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I think this thread is good enough, we should close it...
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On May 02 2011 19:44 EternaL_9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:34 Awesomeness wrote:On May 02 2011 19:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On May 02 2011 19:28 FinBenton wrote:
This doesnt change anything and seeing people CELEBRATE after someone dies is just SICK and makes me sad. So every year you mourn the passing of Adolf Hitler? And you throw a party? If I were to say to every jew back when Hitler was killed who was elated, "how dare you celebrate this MANS death! Shame on you!" is fucking stupid.
So you put urself on a par with the jews who suffered in ww2?
... TT
User was warned for this post
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On May 02 2011 19:47 whatdoido wrote:
no sightings of Bin Laden
Are you sure they would tell us?
On May 02 2011 19:47 whatdoido wrote:
no eyewitness reports,
See above.
On May 02 2011 19:47 whatdoido wrote:
no specific allegations of location in public media
This is not true
On May 02 2011 19:47 whatdoido wrote:
no photos, no proof
How do you know there are no photos? How do you know there are no proof? I read they had taken DNA from him, doesn't that count as proof? (would be kind of stupid to take dna and not photos). If he has relatives this could be verified with a pretty high degree of certainty.
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On May 02 2011 19:48 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:39 Fraidnot wrote:On May 02 2011 19:38 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:35 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:32 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:30 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:27 blomsterjohn wrote:On May 02 2011 19:23 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:21 Zerokaiser wrote:On May 02 2011 19:16 Awesomeness wrote:
[quote]
Rights stop being universal, if you can relinquish them. This gives the government the freedom to do whatever they want, saying _everyone_ who is against them has "relinquished" his rights. I think you need to draw a line there, if you consider yourself a democrat and actually believe in the decleration of human rights. "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood." We have rights to protect our fellow human beings from being subject to mistreatment, and to give everybody the ability to live their lives freely. Osama Bin Laden had those rights like anybody else. When you make the conscious choice to violate those rights and take away the lives of people, you are no longer free and equal with mankind. That's my personal opinion. Well said. Bin Laden had his until he infringed on the rights of others by eliminating their ability to enjoy those rights. A price must be paid Why do I feel like this is the same'ish as "I believe in free speech, except for some stuff" Doesn't feel good either. There are limits to free speech, and they are extreme cases. Any idea taken to an absolute extreme can be troublesome. The idea that a person can murder thousands and not be brought to justice is confounding. He was intent on fighting to the very last bullet and he fired on the team that came to arrest him. Self defense in the course of executing a legitimate arrest is something that's not usually questioned. So why is George W. Bush still not brought to justice then? He murdered thousands of innocent civilians in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Nobody has ever been prosecuted accidental civilian deaths that result in war, at least as far as I'm aware. Actually it was during an invasion, which was even illegal in the case of Iraq. Since when has war been a legal matter? Since the UN and the international court in den haag?
Oh, wow somebody who actually believes in the power of a system that has absolutely no power over it's strongest members.
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This thread has too many trolls in it.
I suggest if your from the United States don't bother reading or replying to half the posts here.
Anyways it looks like its time for me to leave this thread.
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And this will change what?
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On May 02 2011 19:47 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:44 EternaL_9 wrote:On May 02 2011 19:34 Awesomeness wrote:On May 02 2011 19:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On May 02 2011 19:28 FinBenton wrote:
This doesnt change anything and seeing people CELEBRATE after someone dies is just SICK and makes me sad. So every year you mourn the passing of Adolf Hitler? And you throw a party? I'm sure parties were thrown when Hitler was killed. Hitler, along with Osama, were mass murderers of innocent people. He's the leader of Al'Qaeda, the people we are AT WAR with. Killing their leader DOES mark an achievement and step forward in the war. If Al'qaeda killed Obama it would be an achievement for them too. People aren't celebrating the mere FACT that he was killed. They're celebrating the fact that this is a step forward in the war, at least at a moral standpoint. Americans, who've had friends / neighbors over seas fighting everyday in this war DESERVE to celebrate this achievement. Saying otherwise is pretty idiotic, and is just a way for you to get attention by flaming this thread. If I were to say to every jew back when Hitler was killed who was elated, "how dare you celebrate this MANS death! Shame on you!" is fucking stupid. TLDR there's a bunch of attention whore's in this thread who have found a way to get attention - by ridiculing anyone who is happy Osama is gone. That's not a fair comparison. Hitler was seen as (and was a) threat to the world and people were afraid of a Nazi occupation, of course celebrations were had when Germany was defeated.
People weren't afraid of Osama? the man who essentially killed thousands of americans? it's a fine comparison..
anyways, I wasn't really talking about the 100 americans out of the billions of us on Capital hill who are (most likely) tea party idiots who are on capital hill all day anyway. Fuck them. I'm talking about the general american who has had family in the war (IE me) who is HAPPY that the leader of Al'Qaeda is dead.
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On May 02 2011 19:44 EternaL_9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:34 Awesomeness wrote:On May 02 2011 19:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On May 02 2011 19:28 FinBenton wrote:
This doesnt change anything and seeing people CELEBRATE after someone dies is just SICK and makes me sad. So every year you mourn the passing of Adolf Hitler? And you throw a party? I'm sure parties were thrown when Hitler was killed. Hitler, along with Osama, were mass murderers of innocent people. He's the leader of Al'Qaeda, the people we are AT WAR with. Killing their leader DOES mark an achievement and step forward in the war. If Al'qaeda killed Obama it would be an achievement for them too. People aren't celebrating the mere FACT that he was killed. They're celebrating the fact that this is a step forward in the war, at least at a moral standpoint. Americans, who've had friends / neighbors over seas fighting everyday in this war DESERVE to celebrate this achievement. Saying otherwise is pretty idiotic, and is just a way for you to get attention by flaming this thread. If I were to say to every jew back when Hitler was killed who was elated, "how dare you celebrate this MANS death! Shame on you!" is fucking stupid. TLDR there's a bunch of attention whore's in this thread who have found a way to get attention - by ridiculing anyone who is happy Osama is gone.
Wow this argument is ridiculous.
With Hitler - people were celebrating the end of the war, rather than Hitler dying per se - otherwise there would have been parties at the conclusion of the Nuremburg war trials.
Similarly, when Japan surrendered, were people celebrating the deaths of 150 000 - 250 000 people, or the end of WW2?
It's harder to make that argument for Osama. The reality is killing Bin Laden is probably not going to have a significant impact in Iraq or Afghanistan. As an outsider, I don't see his death as a symbolic victory, so I don't really the logical reason to celebrate.
I can see how to people who see his death as a symbolic victory would find cause to celebrate, but I still find it distasteful.
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On May 02 2011 19:52 Imres wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:49 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:44 Imres wrote:On May 02 2011 19:41 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:38 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:35 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:32 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:30 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:27 blomsterjohn wrote:On May 02 2011 19:23 partisan wrote:
[quote]
Well said. Bin Laden had his until he infringed on the rights of others by eliminating their ability to enjoy those rights. A price must be paid Why do I feel like this is the same'ish as "I believe in free speech, except for some stuff" Doesn't feel good either. There are limits to free speech, and they are extreme cases. Any idea taken to an absolute extreme can be troublesome. The idea that a person can murder thousands and not be brought to justice is confounding. He was intent on fighting to the very last bullet and he fired on the team that came to arrest him. Self defense in the course of executing a legitimate arrest is something that's not usually questioned. So why is George W. Bush still not brought to justice then? He murdered thousands of innocent civilians in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Nobody has ever been prosecuted accidental civilian deaths that result in war, at least as far as I'm aware. Actually it was during an invasion, which was even illegal in the case of Iraq. Technically the UN signed off on Iraq, which gave it legal cover. That being said, it was a stupid mess that I marched against for years. You'll never hear me defend the wisdom of that war but we did get approval first. France (one of the few things we can be proud of :D) vetoed the decision. The 2003 resolution was vetoed, but the original disarmament resolution from 1991 along with resolution 1441 were used as justification. In the states we call that a loophole, or lawyers earning their pay. Apparently in some parts of the world its considered illegal Didn't know that, but we can all agree that the US doesn't actually need UN approval. That may be good or bad, depends of the side you consider it, so lawyers can argue for years to justify or blame the intervention.
Agreed... our ability to enforce anything through the international community is feeble at best. Maybe someday that will change for the better
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On May 02 2011 19:56 NPHarris wrote:
And this will change what?
Well it weakens al-Qaeda for starters, and acts as an example to others who hope to attack America and get away with it.
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On May 02 2011 19:57 partisan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:52 Imres wrote:On May 02 2011 19:49 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:44 Imres wrote:On May 02 2011 19:41 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:38 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:35 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:32 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:30 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:27 blomsterjohn wrote:
[quote]
Why do I feel like this is the same'ish as "I believe in free speech, except for some stuff"
Doesn't feel good either.
There are limits to free speech, and they are extreme cases. Any idea taken to an absolute extreme can be troublesome. The idea that a person can murder thousands and not be brought to justice is confounding. He was intent on fighting to the very last bullet and he fired on the team that came to arrest him. Self defense in the course of executing a legitimate arrest is something that's not usually questioned. So why is George W. Bush still not brought to justice then? He murdered thousands of innocent civilians in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Nobody has ever been prosecuted accidental civilian deaths that result in war, at least as far as I'm aware. Actually it was during an invasion, which was even illegal in the case of Iraq. Technically the UN signed off on Iraq, which gave it legal cover. That being said, it was a stupid mess that I marched against for years. You'll never hear me defend the wisdom of that war but we did get approval first. France (one of the few things we can be proud of :D) vetoed the decision. The 2003 resolution was vetoed, but the original disarmament resolution from 1991 along with resolution 1441 were used as justification. In the states we call that a loophole, or lawyers earning their pay. Apparently in some parts of the world its considered illegal Didn't know that, but we can all agree that the US doesn't actually need UN approval. That may be good or bad, depends of the side you consider it, so lawyers can argue for years to justify or blame the intervention. Agreed... our ability to enforce anything through the international community is feeble at best. Maybe someday that will change for the better
I think that it'll come with the end of chinese dependance with US's consumation. Then they'll be able to be a solid counterpart and use their position in the security council, but you've a few decades (years? don't think so personnaly) before that happens.
What seem silly to me is that some people argue that it is "legal" when it is, in the better case, legitimate.
@Freidnot, you know that most the starters are gonna be martyrs in the best case? It's just the upper hand of their organization that want to live.
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Zurich15359 Posts
On May 02 2011 18:19 Supamang wrote:
this is pissing me off.
these assoles who are comparing us Americans celebrating the death of the murderer of thousands of innocent civilians to the bastards celebrating the murder of those thousands of innocent civilians should be warned or temp banned.
i cant believe how anti-american people can be.
If you have a problem with how this site moderated file a complaint in the Website Feedback forum.
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On May 02 2011 19:56 Bactrian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:44 EternaL_9 wrote:On May 02 2011 19:34 Awesomeness wrote:On May 02 2011 19:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On May 02 2011 19:28 FinBenton wrote:
This doesnt change anything and seeing people CELEBRATE after someone dies is just SICK and makes me sad. So every year you mourn the passing of Adolf Hitler? And you throw a party? I'm sure parties were thrown when Hitler was killed. Hitler, along with Osama, were mass murderers of innocent people. He's the leader of Al'Qaeda, the people we are AT WAR with. Killing their leader DOES mark an achievement and step forward in the war. If Al'qaeda killed Obama it would be an achievement for them too. People aren't celebrating the mere FACT that he was killed. They're celebrating the fact that this is a step forward in the war, at least at a moral standpoint. Americans, who've had friends / neighbors over seas fighting everyday in this war DESERVE to celebrate this achievement. Saying otherwise is pretty idiotic, and is just a way for you to get attention by flaming this thread. If I were to say to every jew back when Hitler was killed who was elated, "how dare you celebrate this MANS death! Shame on you!" is fucking stupid. TLDR there's a bunch of attention whore's in this thread who have found a way to get attention - by ridiculing anyone who is happy Osama is gone. Wow this argument is ridiculous. With Hitler - people were celebrating the end of the war, rather than Hitler dying per se - otherwise there would have been parties at the conclusion of the Nuremburg war trials. Similarly, when Japan surrendered, were people celebrating the deaths of 150 000 - 250 000 people, or the end of WW2? It's harder to make that argument for Osama. The reality is killing Bin Laden is probably not going to have a significant impact in Iraq or Afghanistan. As an outsider, I don't see his death as a symbolic victory, so I don't really the logical reason to celebrate. I can see how to people who see his death as a symbolic victory would find cause to celebrate, but I still find it distasteful.
I think the problem is, all of you outside of the US think all of america is celebrating right now.. fucking no. It's on the news. Yeah there's some people on capital hill being retards as usual.. but overall it's a reason to be happy about the war and our government. Seeing one video of idiot tea partyers celebrating shouldn't make you think it's a fkn party over here TT
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I bet someone is going to claim that $25 Million reward.
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EPT
