EPTOsama Bin Laden killed - Page 122
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Keep it civil guys. Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans. The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally. Confirmation was as follows - On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive. - photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis - confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan. This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death. | ||
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mahkan
United States153 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:19 iloveoil wrote: Agree with this 100% everyone deserves a fair trial regardless of what theyve done When you are at war, there are rarely trials. They "could" have tear gased/flash banged the shit out of the place and tried to capture him, but the risk of further deaths and the extreme danger it would put foreigners in (potential hostages) don't justify to positives of "we're better than that" imo. | ||
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Rflcrx
503 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:20 Kennigit wrote: I reworded the warning. yeah, though I think you meant osama and not obama. And it is still disappointing. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:23 Rflcrx wrote: yeah, though I think you meant osama and not obama. And it is still disappointing. Did i type Obama again? fml. People seem to think America is the world police and that they need to smack hands and teach people lessons...they aren't. It's a war. You kill leaders in war. Also im not modding this thread anymore because i'm way too mad and super biased. | ||
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BlackFlag
499 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:22 thebigdonkey wrote: Umm millions? I think that might be a bit of an exaggeration. go look it up. | ||
KwarK
United States41937 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:21 apalemorning wrote: teamliquid moderation is as extreme as their opinions. this is nothing new. with that said, im staying clear of this thread. i can't afford to be warned anymore! <3 The moderation staff is composed of a large group of people with a wide variety of opinions. | ||
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reDicE
United States1020 Posts
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
Yes, it's possible he could have been captured, but there was a kill order on his head for whatever reason. Maybe he was too dangerous and armed to attempt to take alive. Maybe it's because he was in a hostile location. Maybe it was a purely political decision. It doesn't matter. On top of that, it doesn't matter whether or not the Pakistani government knew about the operation or gave the US permission. International politics is dicey at best and based on what both governments have stated, the Pakistanis have been fully helpful and supportive. Zardari has not complained and has instead taken joint credit. One last thing to get off my chest: it's absolutely disgusting that people are celebrating his death like it's a holiday. Leave that kind of behavior for men like him. Someday I hope we never have a reason to celebrate the death of another human. Let's be happy he can never kill another person, but let's not celebrate his death. Hate is toxic. | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:16 JinDesu wrote: Thank you very much. I am a big proponent that everyone who jumps into this thread SHOULD read the whole damn thread. I have; it's not so hard to skim through looking for topics on what you want to post about. I was in high school when the planes hit the towers. I wasn't so much affected by it, but dear god you should have seen the other students who had parents in the towers that day. The subsequent month after when people still did not have answers as to whether their parents were alive or dead, and then the few months after when all hopes were lost; these people have fostered so much hatred for Bin Laden. Why? Because he was the face that they could put their frustrations to. Who else came onto the TV saying "America deserves this and more, and we will do more"? Who else did Bush outright declare to be the greatest criminal to walk this earth? The people who were hurt by these, the firemen and police who lost their brothers, they were out there yesterday at Ground Zero, cheering and waving American flags. Other New Yorkers, taken up by the swell, joined in, celebrating because people were celebrating. They aren't exactly cheering the death of Osama as much as the closure and the sheer relief that SOMETHING was finished. Probably one of the best reply's from an american this entire thread. I agree and understand you fully, and yeah it's a human phenomena... it's just sad when it can also fuel shit like gutamano bay. On May 03 2011 02:18 Kennigit wrote: 1) Kill mission is obviously justified because he was guilty of planning the deaths of thousands of people. It's not like there were some questions about whether he founded al quada or planned terrorist attacks.... 2) Comparing him to uneducated fighters who get detained and thrown into Gitmo is a bit of a jump. Theres also a number of reports coming out to suggest that information gathered from those interrogations was used to find the courier that lead intel groups to OBL's location. (direct reference posted a few pages back) 1) You don't know that. No seriously you don't... you will never ever have a trial against Osama proving it for future generations, he will never be prosecuted and all the evidence or cards will never be laid on the table. That's the tragedy here, by killing him outright without a trial you've turned him into a martyr for a crime we're not even fully aware about. I wouldn't care if you guys had him death sentenced after a trial or whatnot, but now just like Saddam alot of threads will go unsolved because you can't prosecute a godamn dead person. 2) Alot of people at Gutamano are not these kinds of people, you know this. It does not justify the innocent ones being held there and you godamn know this. It's a fucking farce that a country representing freedom and justice would pay for it with the freedom of innocents. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither and will lose both." —Benjamin Franklin on Liberty EDIT: removed the old moderator quote, no need to stir up shit. <3 | ||
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gundream
United States229 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:27 hmunkey wrote: Someday I hope we never have a reason to celebrate the death of another human. Let's be happy he can never kill another person, but let's not celebrate his death. Hate is toxic. absolutely agree | ||
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Greem
730 Posts
It's also good for a lot of Americans, especially those who really lost someone due to the events of 9/11. Whatever your politics are, whatever you think of America's foreign policy, it's a good thing Osama is dead. The world is better for knowing he's dead. Plain and simple I could resume a lot of answers to this thread to this. I wonder how many of those who replied on this way watched few documentals that are out about 9/11 facts. And i wonder how many of those who watched kept an open mind and reflected afterwards. Usama did a lot of terrible things i believe, even that my belief in this case purely based on sources of information that are being manipulated with such frequency , that sometime ago i stopped watching them, instead i started observing and reflecting on facts. 9/11 was a tragedy for families of people who died that day, its a fact, everything else for me is a deception , and as one great man once sad All warfare is based on deception. I myself, i confused about how to act to this news. Is this solved anything at all ? Is this helped someone ? Did it any good ? Prevented it any Bad in the Future ? Possibly only last question would remain solid. And i hope the answer is Yes, but we will never know. | ||
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novat
Great Britain33 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:22 Kennigit wrote: When you are at war, there are rarely trials. They "could" have tear gased/flash banged the shit out of the place and tried to capture him, but the risk of further deaths and the extreme danger it would put foreigners in (potential hostages) don't justify to positives of "we're better than that" imo. Go in with the goal to capture, kill if necessary not that hard to understand is it? That might result in a 90% kill rate of the target, but still why give up on the 10% chance to caputer by going in with the goal to kill. Simple logic presented for your narrow mind. | ||
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mav451
United States1596 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:27 hmunkey wrote: One last thing to get off my chest: it's absolutely disgusting that people are celebrating his death like it's a holiday. Leave that kind of behavior for men like him. Someday I hope we never have a reason to celebrate the death of another human. Let's be happy he can never kill another person, but let's not celebrate his death. Hate is toxic. I can agree with that, but let the Americans who have suffered from 9/11 at least have some catharsis here. Everyone reacts a different way of course. I do think there is some silliness, i.e. college students celebrating in front of the WH, but that's really not serious in the grand scheme of things. | ||
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Jimmeh
United Kingdom908 Posts
No, you look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001–present) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War At absolute most you could push it to like 1million. And that's really, really, really pushing it. "Millions" is an extreme exaggeration. | ||
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Brad`
Canada548 Posts
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Rflcrx
503 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:22 Kennigit wrote: When you are at war, there are rarely trials. They "could" have tear gased/flash banged the shit out of the place and tried to capture him, but the risk of further deaths and the extreme danger it would put foreigners in (potential hostages) don't justify to positives of "we're better than that" imo. The line "we are at war" has been used way too often. I understand it is very difficult to capture somebody alive, but the order to kill is technically against the american system of justice and law. The man who killed him were soldiers who knew the risk. Would you accept if the police would gun down every robber? No, killing somebody is the last resort. And what would have happend in the future can't be an excuse as well, because instead of potential hostages those who are now angry will just killing instead of talking hostages. Again, I can understand why he wasn't taken alive, even with different orders he proberbly would have died, but a kill mission was wrong in the first place. We can disagree on that I guess, but hoping or demanding he should have been tortured is wrong and can't be argued. Everybody deserves a trial and everybody has human rights, in front of the law everybody is the same, that is the guiding principle in our societies and those can't be changed, not for hitler, not for osama, not for anybody. If they change it means the people who oppose them, like osama, are winning. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:18 Kennigit wrote: 1) Kill mission is obviously justified because he was guilty of planning the deaths of thousands of people. It's not like there were some questions about whether he founded al quada or planned terrorist attacks.... 2) Comparing him to uneducated fighters who get detained and thrown into Gitmo is a bit of a jump. Theres also a number of reports coming out to suggest that information gathered from those interrogations was used to find the courier that lead intel groups to OBL's location. (direct reference posted a few pages back) I have very mixed feelings about how the operation was handled. On the one hand, I'm relieved that he is gone and I understand the extremely sensitive nature of this mission. On the other hand, as an aspiring American lawyer, a killing that is not sanctioned by the courts does not sit well with me. But , its just that Kennigit, we know hes guilty, and if he were to be tried in virtually any court on earth he would be found guilty. I wish that he could have at least been put through the same process that Gohring or Wilhelm Frick went through before they died. I will always believe that Justice is best served in a court of law rather then the battlefield. A bullet in the head is a crude form of Justice. That said, I am glad he's gone and I hold nothing against anyone who participated in the operation. | ||
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:20 Rflcrx wrote: The problem with this is that you arguing over the fact that i wont argue with someone. if someone honestly believes a criminal of his caliber deserved to live then i doubt my point of view would change it, and to them i would probably come across as ignorant for trying to argue their point of view.Sadly you didn't understand what I wrote, but you did understand that I blew it out of proportion. You think people disagree because they dislike america and this is the reason why you can't convince them. Spoiler alert: You can't convince them because you don't have the necessary facts. I hate to break it to you but the point I am making is: Not everybody who disagrees with you dislikes america, it just ain't that simple. And marking everybody who disagrees as stubborn and saying its ridiculous to argue is exactly what I would call ignoring. At the same time, by choosing not to argue with the people who are set in their opinions, i am being ignorant, and this all spirals back to my original statement that their is no correct way to approach a political thread, because someone is always out to prove you wrong one way or the other. | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:29 lisN wrote: Go in with the goal to capture, kill if necessary not that hard to understand is it? That might result in a 90% kill rate of the target, but still why give up on the 10% chance to caputer by going in with the goal to kill. Simple logic presented for your narrow mind. Yeah this. Ofcourse one can argue against this but just look at how much your fellow team liquiders argue against that choice and most of us are from EU/US... think about how it'll go down in the middle east :/ Withold what I said before... wasn't the best choice. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death. Does that mean that threads about the repercussions and politics won't get closed and pointed to this one anymore? | ||
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