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Keep it civil guys.
Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans.
The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally.
Confirmation was as follows
- On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive.
- photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis
- confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan.
This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death. |
On May 03 2011 01:54 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 01:51 CurLy[] wrote:
Are people seriously mad that he was killed?
Seriously?
Like for real?
Fuck you guys man... he killed THOUSANDS of people. Rot in pieces osama. Honestly people are so lost in their anti america hate that they will believe anything america does is wrong, you cannot win in a TL thread that has anything to do with politics and america.
This so much...
I've read 4 threads in a row that were filled with nothing but hate towards america and americans generally. I understand there are a lot of people out there with such opinions, but I honestly don't understand why TL mods tolerate people blatantly attacking a country and it's citizens in thread after thread.
We've been called selfish, wicked, immoral, uneducated, and more simply based upon my nationality. TL shouldn't entertain any double standards here: this is nothing but blatant bigotry and prejudice and would not be tolerated towards any other group.
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On May 03 2011 01:54 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 01:51 CurLy[] wrote:
Are people seriously mad that he was killed?
Seriously?
Like for real?
Fuck you guys man... he killed THOUSANDS of people. Rot in pieces osama. Honestly people are so lost in their anti america hate that they will believe anything america does is wrong, you cannot win in a TL thread that has anything to do with politics and america.
Obviously anybody who doesn't cheer or anybody who critics is anti-american and should be ignored or better banned.
Look at yourself and the way you argue.
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On May 03 2011 02:01 Serthius wrote:
Because of Bin Laden, the US is involved in two wars it can't get out of, that have so far cost $1,188 billion.
This year, American tax payers will pay $172.4 billion to keep those wars going.
That money could pay for university scholarships for 21.9 million students for one year. Or for 2.6 million elementary school teachers. Or equip 39 million households with renewable solar power electricity. Or just be saved to stop the country from going bankrupt.
Who won what here, exactly?
How was the iraq war even related? And btw,combat operations there have ended.
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On May 03 2011 02:02 polysciguy wrote:
you mean the same cooperation that we've had for the past few years with them? or was that the same cooperation that had us tell them of the operation pretty much as it was going down because we didn't want it getting back to bin laden? and either way, unless he's being brought before the ICC, pakistan would have to give their ok to an extradition to the US.
Now see there's a problem with your logic. If you can tell them what's going to go down, which obviously you did, then you could just as well have taken him prisoner instead of shot him. You only need to change on word in the call Obama likely made to Pakistan, from "We're coming to kill him" to "We're coming to take him". The US doesn't give two shits about the international community whenever something is important enough to them, hence trying to call on national sovereingty as some kind of roadblock for capturing Osama but not killing him is beyond silly.
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Kennigit - please do not lock this thread. Consider putting a notice just like the one about his identification above. There are so many other things to discuss about regarding these events.
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Bin Laden killed, but the world stays the same. His ideology outlives him. So nothing really gets solved, it is like a bandaid on a severed limb.
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On May 03 2011 02:00 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 01:58 Bibdy wrote:On May 03 2011 01:54 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:51 CurLy[] wrote:
Are people seriously mad that he was killed?
Seriously?
Like for real?
Fuck you guys man... he killed THOUSANDS of people. Rot in pieces osama. Honestly people are so lost in their anti america hate that they will believe anything america does is wrong, you cannot win in a TL thread that has anything to do with politics and america. You can't win a thread, nor can you win at politics without bludgeoning the opposing viewpoint to death. Which is, incidentally, how matters were generally dealt with in the last 5,000 years of human history and even to this day in some parts of the world. The fact that we can doubt, debate, argue, accuse, say our piece and generally be a bunch of assholes to one another without resorting to violence means we've come a long way. I didn't literally mean "win" a thread, the point is you reading through the posts so many people have unrealistic points of view its not worth arguing it.
Absolutely. That some people are quicker to claim a conspiracy, rather than join in the closure and excitement everyone is feeling after the first piece of genuinely good news any administration has announced since the fall of the Berlin wall is quite sad, but that's their choice.
The way I see it, Obama took a huge gamble. It could have been a political disaster if it turned out the intel was wrong. If Bin Laden was there, but wasn't killed, he could gloat once more. If they announced his death without near 100% certainty, we'd already be seeing videos of the guy announcing his continued existence.
Not only is the world rid of a mass murderer, its greatly weakened the guy's hand-built network. Apparently nobody in Al Qaeda makes a pact with a cause - they made a personal pact with Osama. With him out of the picture, where does that leave the rest of Al Qaeda?
The war is far from over, but the side of Peace just won a great battle. If someone prefers to wallow in continued misery and doubt after the fact, just let them.
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On May 03 2011 02:06 HellRoxYa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:02 polysciguy wrote:
you mean the same cooperation that we've had for the past few years with them? or was that the same cooperation that had us tell them of the operation pretty much as it was going down because we didn't want it getting back to bin laden? and either way, unless he's being brought before the ICC, pakistan would have to give their ok to an extradition to the US. Now see there's a problem with your logic. If you can tell them what's going to go down, which obviously you did, then you could just as well have taken him prisoner instead of shot him. You only need to change on word in the call Obama likely made to Pakistan, from "We're coming to kill him" to "We're coming to take him". The US doesn't give two shits about the international community whenever something is important enough to them, hence trying to call on national sovereingty as some kind of roadblock for capturing Osama but not killing him is beyond silly.
not the point, the point is pakistan couldn't be trusted. they've thrown tantrums in the past about us dealing with taliban on their soil when they've refused to do so. they are most likely still throwing tantrums about the drone strikes
and coming to take him is very ambiguous.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
K ill leave it open and keep banning
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you don't, you need to trust them if you are working in cooperation with them.
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On May 03 2011 02:09 Kennigit wrote:
K ill leave it open and keep banning
K, please ban me, I see no point in being on a forum where it is not allowed to critize people who demand/welcome torture (for the sake of pleasure).
User was temp banned for this post.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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On May 03 2011 01:36 Krehlmar wrote:
I just don't get why'd they go for a kill order... obviously not respecting human rights (sorry to break it to you revenge mongerers but death sentence without trial is never eligible in a true just state. For all we know he could be a puppet or even mentally retarded) and not caring for how it'll turn him into an martyr... yet they'd bury him within 24 hours to be at good faith with Muslim tradition. Becuase youknow it's ok killing him if you just bury him proper?
Meh, bad choice imo.
He gave up his right to a trial when he picked up a gun and fired at the team coming after him.
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On May 03 2011 02:04 Kennigit wrote:
K i cant handle it anymore sorry. If you don't understand why he was killed instead of captured, go read some books on international law, terrorism and politics. If you feel bad that he was killed "because he was human after all"....unreal. Locked.
Respectfully I disagree, I'm a law student specializing in international law, one of my teachers has been an EU judge, another an ambassador in the US, another is swedens most prodigious professeur in international law.
I, aswell as most people here I hope, realize that he might've been shot during the firefight and probably never wanted to get captured and had rather died fighting. Yes. But the matter of the fact is that he was still ordered to be killed and that isn't ever for someone to choose unless it can save lives. And if so one has to be sure of it, you can't second guess these things because when you do innocent people end up in gutamano bay and yeah it's a "small" price to pay for our security and whatnot, but it's not a price anyone here would pay themselves.
On May 03 2011 02:05 thoradycus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:01 Serthius wrote:
Because of Bin Laden, the US is involved in two wars it can't get out of, that have so far cost $1,188 billion.
This year, American tax payers will pay $172.4 billion to keep those wars going.
That money could pay for university scholarships for 21.9 million students for one year. Or for 2.6 million elementary school teachers. Or equip 39 million households with renewable solar power electricity. Or just be saved to stop the country from going bankrupt.
Who won what here, exactly? How was the iraq war even related? And btw,combat operations there have ended.
Right because the country is a practical garden of security, freedome and justice for all?
The world doesn't end in america and the people who've paid the biggest price for this boogyman hunt isn't americans or even the tax payers, it's people from other countries that never had a part in it.
The world is most probably a better place without Bin Laden, let us just hope this is the start of a morale boost for the afghani troops.
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If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself.
Is that supposed to be a joke?
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Definately better than the whole Saddam Hussein was hiding in.
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On May 03 2011 02:11 polysciguy wrote:
you don't, you need to trust them if you are working in cooperation with them.
But the post you quoted, my post, was a respons to a guy saying there was no cooperation, only Obama/the US saying how it is while it was already happening. If you're already laying down the law then you can't argue that you can't change the meaning or wording of the law you're laying down.
And for the record, probably the third time in this thread I've said this, I don't mind his death at all personally. I was just trying to make it clear what the other guy was trying to tell you, that human rights are ignored when going for targetted assassinations of this kind, no matter who the target is. (And it's definently not about sympathy).
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I am dumbfounded that Osama was found living in a fucking mansion. What kind shit storm this is going to cause for Pakistani-American relations i can only begin to imagine.
How the hell can a $1 million mansion with twelve foot high walls and no phone or internet go unnoticed by the Pakistani intelligence? I think this is going to cause a further breakdown in the relationship between the two countries intelligence services, which will make it more difficult for American operations in the region.
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Thank you very much. I am a big proponent that everyone who jumps into this thread SHOULD read the whole damn thread. I have; it's not so hard to skim through looking for topics on what you want to post about.
I was in high school when the planes hit the towers. I wasn't so much affected by it, but dear god you should have seen the other students who had parents in the towers that day. The subsequent month after when people still did not have answers as to whether their parents were alive or dead, and then the few months after when all hopes were lost; these people have fostered so much hatred for Bin Laden. Why? Because he was the face that they could put their frustrations to. Who else came onto the TV saying "America deserves this and more, and we will do more"? Who else did Bush outright declare to be the greatest criminal to walk this earth?
The people who were hurt by these, the firemen and police who lost their brothers, they were out there yesterday at Ground Zero, cheering and waving American flags. Other New Yorkers, taken up by the swell, joined in, celebrating because people were celebrating. They aren't exactly cheering the death of Osama as much as the closure and the sheer relief that SOMETHING was finished.
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EPT
