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Keep it civil guys.
Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans.
The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally.
Confirmation was as follows
- On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive.
- photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis
- confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan.
This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death. |
On May 03 2011 02:04 Rflcrx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 01:54 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:51 CurLy[] wrote:
Are people seriously mad that he was killed?
Seriously?
Like for real?
Fuck you guys man... he killed THOUSANDS of people. Rot in pieces osama. Honestly people are so lost in their anti america hate that they will believe anything america does is wrong, you cannot win in a TL thread that has anything to do with politics and america. Obviously anybody who doesn't cheer or anybody who critics is anti-american and should be ignored or better banned. Look at yourself and the way you argue. Its funny because this is exactly what i was talking about, you take a neutral point of view and do a complete flip on me saying that everyone who disagrees with me should be banned. You completely blew a general statement completely out of proportion for the sake of being augmentative.
I never said the people who disagreed with me were wrong, just that they were stubborn and arguing over it is ridiculous, i will never be able to convince someone who dislikes america that they are wrong over the internet, im not going to sit here and argue with a brick wall.
This thread was about a terrorist leader being killed, now it is full of everything from conspiracy theorists to people who think a mass murder was innocent and should not have been killed, if you honestly think the internet is a place for sane political arguments you are dead wrong
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If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself.
Wow, I expected a whole lot more from TL mod's than this. How is the principle of human rights so foreign to many people in this thread? This discussion on torture is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on these forums.
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On May 03 2011 02:04 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 01:54 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:51 CurLy[] wrote:
Are people seriously mad that he was killed?
Seriously?
Like for real?
Fuck you guys man... he killed THOUSANDS of people. Rot in pieces osama. Honestly people are so lost in their anti america hate that they will believe anything america does is wrong, you cannot win in a TL thread that has anything to do with politics and america. My heart do not weep for Osama, but no matter WHAT atrocities someone has comitted he should be put to trial rather than just shot down. That is one of the fundamental parts of our civilisation...
i don't think hes part of our civilization...
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:13 Krehlmar wrote:
Yes. But the matter of the fact is that he was still ordered to be killed and that isn't ever for someone to choose unless it can save lives. And if so one has to be sure of it, you can't second guess these things because when you do innocent people end up in gutamano bay and yeah it's a "small" price to pay for our security and whatnot, but it's not a price anyone here would pay themselves.
1) Kill mission is obviously justified because he was guilty of planning the deaths of thousands of people. It's not like there were some questions about whether he founded al quada or planned terrorist attacks....
2) Comparing him to uneducated fighters who get detained and thrown into Gitmo is a bit of a jump. Theres also a number of reports coming out to suggest that information gathered from those interrogations was used to find the courier that lead intel groups to OBL's location. (direct reference posted a few pages back)
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On May 03 2011 02:16 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself. Wow, I expected a whole lot more from TL mod's than this.
Agreed. I think he's just caught up in the heat of the discussion though.
I'm more moderate now than liberal, but it's really painting a broad brush when a mod says something like that.
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On May 03 2011 02:16 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself. Wow, I expected a whole lot more from TL mod's than this. How is the principle of human rights so foreign to many people in this thread? This discussion on torture is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on these forums.
Agree with this 100%
everyone deserves a fair trial regardless of what theyve done
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On May 03 2011 02:16 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself. Wow, I expected a whole lot more from TL mod's than this. How is the principle of human rights so foreign to many people in this thread? This discussion on torture is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on these forums.
People are very emotional because of this subject. And when people are being emotional they do irrational stuff. So don't judge so quick for this alone. I agree with you it's completely stupid to act on vengeance, but it's understandable that every human acts stupid when emotions arise.
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On May 03 2011 02:16 JinDesu wrote:
Thank you very much. I am a big proponent that everyone who jumps into this thread SHOULD read the whole damn thread. I have; it's not so hard to skim through looking for topics on what you want to post about.
I was in high school when the planes hit the towers. I wasn't so much affected by it, but dear god you should have seen the other students who had parents in the towers that day. The subsequent month after when people still did not have answers as to whether their parents were alive or dead, and then the few months after when all hopes were lost; these people have fostered so much hatred for Bin Laden. Why? Because he was the face that they could put their frustrations to. Who else came onto the TV saying "America deserves this and more, and we will do more"? Who else did Bush outright declare to be the greatest criminal to walk this earth?
The people who were hurt by these, the firemen and police who lost their brothers, they were out there yesterday at Ground Zero, cheering and waving American flags. Other New Yorkers, taken up by the swell, joined in, celebrating because people were celebrating. They aren't exactly cheering the death of Osama as much as the closure and the sheer relief that SOMETHING was finished.
Thank you for the good post.
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If you have any other viewpoint other than ours, keep them to yourself.
This thread is specifically dedicated to the illusion of "patriotism", support for our armed forces as if we were US-government-funded, and constantly reminding ourselves of something we're better off letting go.
Fixed for what some of us are interpretting of this thread's direction.
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On May 03 2011 02:09 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:00 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:58 Bibdy wrote:On May 03 2011 01:54 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:51 CurLy[] wrote:
Are people seriously mad that he was killed?
Seriously?
Like for real?
Fuck you guys man... he killed THOUSANDS of people. Rot in pieces osama. Honestly people are so lost in their anti america hate that they will believe anything america does is wrong, you cannot win in a TL thread that has anything to do with politics and america. You can't win a thread, nor can you win at politics without bludgeoning the opposing viewpoint to death. Which is, incidentally, how matters were generally dealt with in the last 5,000 years of human history and even to this day in some parts of the world. The fact that we can doubt, debate, argue, accuse, say our piece and generally be a bunch of assholes to one another without resorting to violence means we've come a long way. I didn't literally mean "win" a thread, the point is you reading through the posts so many people have unrealistic points of view its not worth arguing it. Absolutely. That some people are quicker to claim a conspiracy, rather than join in the closure and excitement everyone is feeling after the first piece of genuinely good news any administration has announced since the fall of the Berlin wall is quite sad, but that's their choice. The way I see it, Obama took a huge gamble. It could have been a political disaster if it turned out the intel was wrong. If Bin Laden was there, but wasn't killed, he could gloat once more. If they announced his death without near 100% certainty, we'd already be seeing videos of the guy announcing his continued existence. Not only is the world rid of a mass murderer, its greatly weakened the guy's hand-built network. Apparently nobody in Al Qaeda makes a pact with a cause - they made a personal pact with Osama. With him out of the picture, where does that leave the rest of Al Qaeda? The war is far from over, but the side of Peace just won a great battle. If someone prefers to wallow in continued misery and doubt after the fact, just let them.
are you for real?! I'm not some anti-american ass, but you call the american mitlitary, the side of peace? are you for fuckin real? two wars, with no reason, where millions died. the terrorists coudn't even do this in the next 10 years.
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On May 03 2011 02:16 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:04 Rflcrx wrote:On May 03 2011 01:54 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:51 CurLy[] wrote:
Are people seriously mad that he was killed?
Seriously?
Like for real?
Fuck you guys man... he killed THOUSANDS of people. Rot in pieces osama. Honestly people are so lost in their anti america hate that they will believe anything america does is wrong, you cannot win in a TL thread that has anything to do with politics and america. Obviously anybody who doesn't cheer or anybody who critics is anti-american and should be ignored or better banned. Look at yourself and the way you argue. Its funny because this is exactly what i was talking about, you take a neutral point of view and do a complete flip on me saying that everyone who disagrees with me should be banned. You completely blew a general statement completely out of proportion for the sake of being augmentative. I never said the people who disagreed with me were wrong, just that they were stubborn and arguing over it is ridiculous, i will never be able to convince someone who dislikes america that they are wrong over the internet, im not going to sit here and argue with a brick wall. This thread was about a terrorist leader being killed, now it is full of everything from conspiracy theorists to people who think a mass murder was innocent and should not have been killed, if you honestly think the internet is a place for sane political arguments you are dead wrong
Sadly you didn't understand what I wrote, but you did understand that I blew it out of proportion.
You think people disagree because they dislike america and this is the reason why you can't convince them. Spoiler alert: You can't convince them because you don't have the necessary facts. I hate to break it to you but the point I am making is: Not everybody who disagrees with you dislikes america, it just ain't that simple. And marking everybody who disagrees as stubborn and saying its ridiculous to argue is exactly what I would call ignoring.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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On May 03 2011 02:16 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself. Wow, I expected a whole lot more from TL mod's than this. How is the principle of human rights so foreign to many people in this thread? This discussion on torture is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on these forums.
I totally agree on this. Even tho I wanted that SOB to pay for what he did, I still have my human compassion and I feel like giving a permission to kill on sight is rough. Although spending rest of his life in prison wouldn't have done much good for him anyway.
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On May 03 2011 02:16 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself. Wow, I expected a whole lot more from TL mod's than this. How is the principle of human rights so foreign to many people in this thread? This discussion on torture is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on these forums.
teamliquid moderation is as extreme as their opinions. this is nothing new. with that said, im staying clear of this thread. i can't afford to be warned anymore! <3
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humanity is fucked either way you looked at it. killing for killing, this all this is. i personally would rather him have gone crazy from solitude in a dungeon cell for the rest of his life, deprived from anything he loved so that he could feel what others have lost..because (in my opinion) killing him only just let him rest....nothing more nothing less. let us say there is no heaven/no hell, if this is the case he wasn't punished just allowed to die, which is what we are all going to do anyway.
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Kennigit, you wrote Obama :p
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On May 03 2011 02:20 Kennigit wrote:
I reworded the warning.
....its osama not obama
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On May 03 2011 02:20 BlackFlag wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:09 Bibdy wrote:On May 03 2011 02:00 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:58 Bibdy wrote:On May 03 2011 01:54 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:51 CurLy[] wrote:
Are people seriously mad that he was killed?
Seriously?
Like for real?
Fuck you guys man... he killed THOUSANDS of people. Rot in pieces osama. Honestly people are so lost in their anti america hate that they will believe anything america does is wrong, you cannot win in a TL thread that has anything to do with politics and america. You can't win a thread, nor can you win at politics without bludgeoning the opposing viewpoint to death. Which is, incidentally, how matters were generally dealt with in the last 5,000 years of human history and even to this day in some parts of the world. The fact that we can doubt, debate, argue, accuse, say our piece and generally be a bunch of assholes to one another without resorting to violence means we've come a long way. I didn't literally mean "win" a thread, the point is you reading through the posts so many people have unrealistic points of view its not worth arguing it. Absolutely. That some people are quicker to claim a conspiracy, rather than join in the closure and excitement everyone is feeling after the first piece of genuinely good news any administration has announced since the fall of the Berlin wall is quite sad, but that's their choice. The way I see it, Obama took a huge gamble. It could have been a political disaster if it turned out the intel was wrong. If Bin Laden was there, but wasn't killed, he could gloat once more. If they announced his death without near 100% certainty, we'd already be seeing videos of the guy announcing his continued existence. Not only is the world rid of a mass murderer, its greatly weakened the guy's hand-built network. Apparently nobody in Al Qaeda makes a pact with a cause - they made a personal pact with Osama. With him out of the picture, where does that leave the rest of Al Qaeda? The war is far from over, but the side of Peace just won a great battle. If someone prefers to wallow in continued misery and doubt after the fact, just let them. are you for real?! I'm not some anti-american ass, but you call the american mitlitary, the side of peace? are you for fuckin real? two wars, with no reason, where millions died. the terrorists coudn't even do this in the next 10 years.
Umm millions? I think that might be a bit of an exaggeration.
I totally agree on this. Even tho I wanted that SOB to pay for what he did, I still have my human compassion and I feel like giving a permission to kill on sight is rough. Although spending rest of his life in prison wouldn't have done much good for him anyway.
This may be fallacious in that it's an "end justifies the means" type argument, but it's not like he offered himself up peacefully and they shot him in the head anyway. There was a firefight. He died. If he truly wanted to be a martyr, he would have got down on his knees and did nothing and if they shot him anyway, they would look terrible (like the scene from Tom Clancy's book The Sum of All Fears where the Israeli officer shot the protester in the head on the temple mount). But expecting a peaceful extraction when bullets are flying both ways is unrealistic and unfair to the team going after him.
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On May 03 2011 02:16 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself. Wow, I expected a whole lot more from TL mod's than this. How is the principle of human rights so foreign to many people in this thread? This discussion on torture is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on these forums.
Comments on how Osama deserves human rights are inappropriately placed. The kill order was not inhumane, unless you consider death penalties inhuman. He was tried in proxy - why proxy? Well, the damn dude didn't come in for his trial. He planned for the death of thousands of Americans, and succeeded several times. He was not tortured at his death (or at least what is known to us), and his body was not vandalized.
Stop saying he needs a fair trial. He would definitely have made a mockery of a fair trial like what Saddamn Hussein did.
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EPT
