EPTSC2 & Politics - Page 2
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0meg4
Brazil97 Posts
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Celadan
Norway471 Posts
On March 31 2011 20:48 Zechs wrote: Sorry to break it to the 'no' voters, but sport and politics are historically insperable. There are countless examples of this kind of thing, and esports is no different, nor should it be IMO. Why? Sport, and to a lesser extent esport, is a powerful medium watched by millions of people worldwide - what better platform to put a message across? This even has precedant in esports, as WC3 fans should know. During WCG Seattle Fly100% and Sky actually got onstage to attack a competitor who waved a Taiwanese flag. It happens, and is a sign of esports growing up IMO. It means more than just a bunch of nerds playing games now. Im sorry, I wouldn't exactly call that growing up. Politics is not growing up..... and lastly if you dont like the scene because they are nerds, why do you watch it?? | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On March 31 2011 20:48 Zechs wrote: Sorry to break it to the 'no' voters, but sport and politics are historically insperable. There are countless examples of this kind of thing, and esports is no different, nor should it be IMO. Why? Sport, and to a lesser extent esport, is a powerful medium watched by millions of people worldwide - what better platform to put a message across? This even has precedant in esports, as WC3 fans should know. During WCG Seattle Fly100% and Sky actually got onstage to attack a competitor who waved a Taiwanese flag. It happens, and is a sign of esports growing up IMO. It means more than just a bunch of nerds playing games now. It's a horrible precedent, and it should (and will) be condemned. Your point about the flag is completely moot. Politics is not the same as nationalism. On the international level, in an international competition, flag-waving and nationalism are completely legitimate. Like the Olympics, you're representing your country as it pertains to the competition at hand. You are not representing your country as an elected official in a political arena. Bringing up political issues is completely illegitimate. It has nothing to do with the sport, and it is insanely rude to your opponents. Especially if you tie your political statement to your victory -- you're basically insinuating that your opponent is somehow responsible for defending the opposing side of whatever political issue you're railing against. It's horrible sportsmanship, it's a poor way to treat politics and the sport, and I don't like that MKP pulled out that sign. He should absolutely apologize to Sen, his opponent that series. It also was counter-productive. It's not going to change the issue any, and may have lost MKP the respect of some of his fans. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On March 31 2011 20:59 0meg4 wrote: So many ignorant statements, obviously it have place in e-sports too, i hope i dont see someone say that not even in music should have politics. Music is art, not an international competitive sport. Asinine... | ||
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lofung
Hong Kong298 Posts
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Zechs
United Kingdom321 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:00 Leporello wrote: It's a horrible precedent, and it should (and will) be condemned. Your point about the flag is completely moot. Politics is not the same as nationalism. On the international level, in an international competition, flag-waving and nationalism are completely legitimate. Like the Olympics, you're representing your country as it pertains to the competition at hand. You are not representing your country as an elected official in a political arena. Bringing up political issues is completely illegitimate. It has nothing to do with the sport, and it is INSANELY rude to your opponents. Especially if you tie your political statement to your victory -- you're basically insinuating that your opponent is somehow responsible for defending whatever political issue you're railing against. Horrible sportsmanship, and I don't like that MKP pulled out that sign. He should absolutely apologize to Sen, his opponent that series. It also was counter-productive. It's not going to change the issue any, and may have lost MKP the respect of some of his fans. I feel like you kinda missed the point. I'm not saying that's political because of the guy waving his flag - of course that happens at every single international sporting event. But a pair of Chinese guys aren't going to attack someone waving any old flag are they? The context of their violence is hundreds of years of political disagreement. I'm not condoning it, i'm just saying that it exists, and a poll isn't going to make it go away. And since international sport is about nations competing against each other, then i feel like it does have a place. It adds something, whether it's just an extra level of plot or just more intensity in the game. Try telling a Celtic or Rangers fan that sport is only about on-field competition. Try telling it to a fan at a Barca vs Real game, particuarly in the Franco era. Try telling it to a Russian football fan at pretty much any time in the past 70 years. Try telling it to Jesse Owens or Muahamad Ali (note: not Cassius Clay). | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:07 Zechs wrote: I feel like you kinda missed the point. I'm not saying that's political because of the guy waving his flag - of course that happens at every single international sporting event. But a pair of Chinese guys aren't going to attack someone waving any old flag are they? The context of their violence is hundreds of years of political disagreement. I'm not condoning it, i'm just saying that it exists, and a poll isn't going to make it go away. And since international sport is about nations competing against each other, then i feel like it does have a place. It adds something, whether it's just an extra level of plot or just more intensity in the game. Try telling a Celtic or Rangers fan that sport is only about on-field competition. Try telling it to a fan at a Barca vs Real game, particuarly in the Franco era. Try telling it to a Russian football fan at pretty much any time in the past 70 years. Try telling it to Jesse Owens or Muahamad Ali (note: not Cassius Clay) Nationalism is fine. Political issues are not. (Repeating myself) I don't recall the Celtics or Rangers having any political agendas.... Do they? What political agenda does Russian football represent? Social Welfare? And how about Muhammed Ali? Was he fighting for or against abortion? Nationalism does not equal politics. I think it is you that misses the point, not me. | ||
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Semtext
Germany287 Posts
On March 31 2011 20:32 Manit0u wrote: You mean, SC2 progamers doing stuff similar to what Kozakiewicz did back in '80 to show disrespect for USSR? + Show Spoiler + What exactly did he do? I see a polish pole vaulter cheering after clearing the jump, while polish flags are shown in the audience. Not much USSR dissing going on there, if you ask me. | ||
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Alkior
543 Posts
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Semtext
Germany287 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:09 Leporello wrote: Nationalism is fine. Political issues are not. (Repeating myself) I don't recall the Celtics or Rangers having any political agendas.... Do they? No, but religious. Which is as bad. | ||
zere
Germany1287 Posts
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
I'm tired of politics. | ||
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Dystisis
Norway713 Posts
Sorry to break it to the 'no' voters, but sport and politics are historically insperable. There are countless examples of this kind of thing, and esports is no different, nor should it be IMO. Why? Sport, and to a lesser extent esport, is a powerful medium watched by millions of people worldwide - what better platform to put a message across? Exactly. So many people from the "new era" of internet and so on have a, in their own eyes, "neutral" view of politics, which is just ridiculous and a-historical. As followers of "esports" and new arenas of entertainment, creativity and expression, we have marginalization in common; I think it would be good if more people showed resistance to that and other types of reactionary attitudes faced by people everywhere. | ||
green.at
Austria1459 Posts
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
As long as people want to hear players interviews - I personally have seldom cared about what any athlete, rock star, or video game nerd had to say - people are going to have to listen to whatever they say. | ||
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Zechs
United Kingdom321 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:09 Leporello wrote: Nationalism is fine. Political issues are not. (Repeating myself) I don't recall the Celtics or Rangers having any political agendas.... Do they? What political agenda does Russian football represent? Social Welfare? And how about Muhammed Ali? Was he fighting for or against abortion? Nationalism does not equal politics. I think it is you that misses the point, not me. Celtic/Rangers is religious, but it boils over into politics. I was just using it as an example of how sport is about more than sport. To quote Terry Pratchet: "The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football." Russian football is riddled with political issues - admittedly in a bad way. Teams being owned by the government, the military, gangsters, police teams 'Football against the Enemy' and 'Football Dynamo' are both great books on this subject (the former is more global, while the latter is purely about Russian fooball). And Ali, are you kidding? He was a huge part of the civil rights movement. He was friends with Malcom X for a time, and was highly political and controversial figure - i kinda feel like i'm stating the obvious with this one. Hell, he threw his olympic medal away as part of his disgust at racism. | ||
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Dystisis
Norway713 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:09 Leporello wrote: Nationalism is fine. Political issues are not. (Repeating myself) I don't recall the Celtics or Rangers having any political agendas.... Do they? What political agenda does Russian football represent? Social Welfare? And how about Muhammed Ali? Was he fighting for or against abortion? Nationalism does not equal politics. I think it is you that misses the point, not me. Please do some research before posting about things you apparently don't know much about. http://videosift.com/video/The-Politics-of-Muhammad-Ali http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nationalism/ Nationalism is a political sentiment; expressing the self-determination and authority of their nation. Many people think nationalism is bullshit because what nation they happened to be born in is just pure chance. | ||
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RickOrShay
New Zealand132 Posts
I'm not against what he did, but I don't think it was the best idea. | ||
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Zechs
United Kingdom321 Posts
On March 31 2011 21:21 Zorkmid wrote: The North Pole belongs to Canada! As long as people want to hear players interviews - I personally have seldom cared about what any athlete, rock star, or video game nerd had to say - people are going to have to listen to whatever they say. This is also a solid point. 95% of sports and esports interviews are utterly tedious and mundane. Most of the players - especially footballers - are vapid. If you don't like what they say, don't listen. I wasn't even aware of the Marine King event for this exact reason. | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
I dont understand if you by that mean "should it be allowed" or "should people refrain themselves doing political statements". My answer would be: Yes it is allowed but please refrain yourself from using e-sports as a political arena. | ||
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