EPTwhere do you draw the line of what belongs and what doesnt?
SC2 & Politics - Page 13
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Sporadic44
United States533 Posts
where do you draw the line of what belongs and what doesnt? | ||
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Latham
9589 Posts
On April 02 2011 23:15 Sporadic44 wrote: marineking is the player in question. he's the one in the booth. so however he wants to speak his mind, and whatever ideas he wishes to express he may. the poll "do politics belong in esports" is a harsh generalization of a simple message one of the pros wanted to convey. you cant sensor that. because if politics dont belong in esports then what else doesnt. where do you draw the line of what belongs and what doesnt? In good taste, and what won't possibly cause an international scandal. Honestly I think those kinds of things shouldn't be allowed on tv. Imagine Flash or Jaedong doing that. MKP should be reprimended for that. I'm not saying he can't have any beef with Japan knowing a little about their history, but at a time like this when GOM is trying to unify people to help Japan out after the earthquake he can cause a rift, a scandal instead. Really stupid move on his part. | ||
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Sporadic44
United States533 Posts
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
I think it's pretty obvious to draw the line because it's off topic to what the event is about, watching players compete in Starcraft 2. | ||
alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
On April 02 2011 23:30 Sporadic44 wrote: hahahahaha sorry i believe in freedom of speech and expressing your mind regardless of what people think I think you misunderstood the meaning if freedom of speech greatly. His idea isn't censored in anyway or form, it's just in the wrong place and the wrong time. Imagining you're an audience in large conference, you disagree with what the guy says, you immediately jump up and express your opinion by cutting him off, security haul you away. Do you think that violate your freedom of speech? Case 2: You're in a class room, stood up yelling out nonsense, teacher told you to get out, can you defend your self with freedom of speech there? You're expressing your mind regardless of what people think. | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
I don't know why you are asking this, I don't think myself nor anybody else here is in a position to answer this. Ask the GomTV PD? Or better yet, e-mail the executives who authorized the whole thing. He (if he does choose to respond) will probably give you a semi-nationalistic answer that you may choose to regard as bullshit. But what's going to change? The questions were obviously rhetorical. Because they can. It is in the interest of the Korean government to secure and fortify the notion of "독도는 우리땅". Everybody knows the conglomerates and politicians work hand-in-hand, why not use GSL to direct a message to a huge foreign audience? Yes, why don't we force every Korean outside of Korea to hold signs that says Dokdo is Korean in wherever they are while at it? The point is, the "why not use X to direct a message" should be more like "should we". It's not even the government doing this, but some SC2 council? That was supposed to replace KeSPA? That is called bullshit. Top right corner sometimes flashing small box thing if I recall correctly. How certain are you that is OGN and MBC and not some random afreeca streamer? As I have stated before I fully understand your point on setting precedent and I don't believe that is debatable because you are entitled to your opinion. But just read over what you've said, here: "I hope some japanese guy joins GSL and holds up a sign that says "Dokdo belongs to Japan" when he wins." I don't wanna flame or go over literally and explain why it was bad on many different levels, even if your intention was to prove a point. If you don't find it the least bit childish and ignorant, I regret you feel this way. So your response is "Oh man, you're a terrible person if you don't see why it's ignorant and childish?" How about I rephrase. I hope the next team that wins the Super Bowl all holds up a sign that says "Abortion is murder" after the game because the team's owner would fire them if they did not. You are clearly overintepreting what I mean by "I hope X does Y" so whatever. My point is to be extreme so that the point is obvious so if you think it's childish or anyway then go nuts about it, I guess. | ||
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sharky246
1197 Posts
On April 01 2011 15:00 Leporello wrote: No one seems to mention the opponent... Sorry, MKP, you're a 17 year-old who excels at video-games, why should I take your politics at face value? Do I need to research every political topic a pro-gamer brings up (provided he wins his game, of course) and throw some sort of actual support for a local cause in a region that's on the other side of the planet? Or am I just watching these guys because they spend 8 hours a day playing Starcraft? No one is asking you to do research and no one is asking you to take it at face value. If you don't want to bother with his message then leave it be, simple as that. On April 03 2011 00:42 Milkis wrote: How certain are you that is OGN and MBC and not some random afreeca streamer? GTR's stream, IIRC, he got this subscription to watch all korean channels online, so no, its not some random afreeca streamer, but in fact from the actual channel. It always seemed as if koreans get carried away when it comes to nationalism. | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
GTR's stream, IIRC, he got this subscription to watch all korean channels online, so no, its not some random afreeca streamer, but in fact from the actual channel. It always seemed as if koreans get carried away when it comes to nationalism. How recent was this? If it's recent then it's def not OGN/MBC doing it but the streamers since the subscription stopped working a few weeks ago | ||
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ThePurist
Canada686 Posts
On April 03 2011 00:42 Milkis wrote: The questions were obviously rhetorical. Yes, why don't we force every Korean outside of Korea to hold signs that says Dokdo is Korean in wherever they are while at it? The point is, the "why not use X to direct a message" should be more like "should we". It's not even the government doing this, but some SC2 council? That was supposed to replace KeSPA? That is called bullshit. How certain are you that is OGN and MBC and not some random afreeca streamer? So your response is "Oh man, you're a terrible person if you don't see why it's ignorant and childish?" How about I rephrase. I hope the next team that wins the Super Bowl all holds up a sign that says "Abortion is murder" after the game because the team's owner would fire them if they did not. You are clearly overintepreting what I mean by "I hope X does Y" so whatever. My point is to be extreme so that the point is obvious so if you think it's childish or anyway then go nuts about it, I guess. After reading your replies many times, I've come to the conclusion you are either really naive or a 고집쟁이. I will drop the matter, I never said you were a terrible person it isn't my intention to flame you. Your original statements were painful to read and provoked me enough to comment. | ||
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sharky246
1197 Posts
On April 03 2011 01:16 Milkis wrote: How recent was this? If it's recent then it's def not OGN/MBC doing it but the streamers since the subscription stopped working a few weeks ago It was seen ages ago, like in January. Showed up every now and then. After the earthquakes happened, it changed to "stay strong japan". | ||
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ffdestiny
United States773 Posts
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On April 03 2011 01:35 frodoguy wrote: It was seen ages ago, like in January. Showed up every now and then. After the earthquakes happened, it changed to "stay strong japan". Augh. Yeah, my respect for OGN/MBC just went down. At least KeSPA isnt the one forcing them to run it (i hope) On April 03 2011 01:31 ThePurist wrote: After reading your replies many times, I've come to the conclusion you are either really naive or a 고집쟁이. I will drop the matter, I never said you were a terrible person it isn't my intention to flame you. Your original statements were painful to read and provoked me enough to comment. Haha. I'm not really a 고집쟁이 cause I'm quite easily swayed by strong arguments or reasoning (which honestly you did not provide). But I do admit that I made my replies provocative on purpose (but I wouldn't use "ignorant" or "childish" to describe it), so I do apologize for that  | ||
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jjun212
Canada2208 Posts
i'd do the same thing if i was watching baseball or something and they kept putting up commercials and all that crap. in fact, i have stopped watching some live matches because of something similar | ||
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Sanctimonius
United Kingdom861 Posts
Time and a place people. This was not the right one for either. As a side note is anyone really saying anything new here? | ||
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Sporadic44
United States533 Posts
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Sanctimonius
United Kingdom861 Posts
My point was MKP has the right to free speech. What he should have done is exercise the unfortunately little used right to think about when he should have used that particular right to free speech. Politics should be kept out of esports, especially at this early stage, because esports is not a vehicle to spout political views. The status of these islands has absolutely nothing to do with Starcraft, why bring them into it at all? Saying he shouldn't have done so is not an attack on free speech, it's an appeal to try and keep esports about esports and nothing else. | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On April 03 2011 01:16 Milkis wrote: How recent was this? If it's recent then it's def not OGN/MBC doing it but the streamers since the subscription stopped working a few weeks ago I remember exactly when it was: March 1st, anniversary of the March 1st Movement. Examples: Look at the upper right corner. March 1st, 2011 March 1st, 2010 March 1st, 2009 Seems to be OGN only. MBCGame didn't do it, at least on that day. If anyone finds instances of MBCGame doing it, please share with us. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/hIWEm.jpg) | ||
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hukdigammafan
United States2 Posts
On April 02 2011 21:19 Jitensha wrote: Although worded poorly, I kind of see where shinku) is coming from. Both countries seem to have a very.. rigid mindset when it comes to history. Of course, my personal experiences are very limited in comparison to others - the hate seemed to me to be very onesided. During my stay in Japan (~1½ year), not once did I hear anyone talk about Korea in a way that was blatantly negative. Two weeks in South Korea and the subject was pretty common. A friend of mine who studied in Seoul during my time abroad told me that her impression was that cussing over Japan was as normal as talking about the weather. (Might just have been us hanging around with completely different crowds, thus screwing impressions) The emperor of Japan even formally apologised for the atrocities that South Korea was exposed to during WW2, and while that certainly doesn't make all fine and dandy - didn't like the next prime minister demand that they apologise again? Or similar. In a japanese point of view, it'd seem like Korea just demands more for crimes that were comitted by their grandparents. I'd be frustrated too :> What happened was terrible and shouldn't be forgotten, so I think the rage is justified when "incidents" like when official-ish school books change the wordings to make it look like Japan is less faulty. The Dokdo case seems to be yet another of these, but I'm not updated on the matter enough to judge. TLDR: I don't mind having players express political statements every now and then, but in my head this entire ordeal feels more like hate mongering. We need moar love! It's a big misconception and I don't know how you can judge an entire country based on 2 week of experience. Koreans would never talk that openly to a foreigner in the first place. I lived in Korea for more than 5 years and they would rarely ever talk about anything politics when I'm around and I have millions of friends. Being the otaku that I am, I freqeuntly travel to Japan as well. The Korean hatred toward Japan is greatly exagerrated. It is true that there are more Koreans that are aware of the Dokdo situations in general, but if you want to go by the numbers of hate group and extremists, the numbers are not even close in favor of Japan. When talking about the internet in Japan, one of the first three things that comes to my mind is the net right ring that are totally obsessed with Korea. On the other hand the net right wing in Korea is very small and close to non existent. You have some crazy lunatics in Daum but they are in the minority and they are not an organized group. There was a big Korea-Japan community site and over 90% of the users were Japanese. So it might sound weird but my impression was that at least in the internet, there are actually more Japanese that are obsessed with Koreans whether it's extreme hatred or love due to the korean wave. It's hard for the western community to know this since Japanese net users or netizens rarely post anything bad about other country using non-japanese language. This has a lot to do with the "save face" culture in Asia which is particularly strong in Japan. That's why I didn't think that shinku was from Japan. I would actually agree with you somewhat if it was 10 years ago before the 2002 world cup and before the big Korean exposure in Japan but things has changed a lot since then. Are Koreans more politicially awared of the situation? Yes but it doesn't mean that they hate everything Japanese. If that was true, they wouldn't have donated so much money for the quake relief. It's more than what they donated during haiti and katrina. They might not be a big fan of Japanese politics but I'll bet you that 7 out of 10 people in Korea have favorable view toward the regular Japanese people. Just because people don't like Bush doesn't mean they hate America. I remember they had a global survey it might vary depending on the survey but I never seen a poll where the negative was higher on both sides and the postive view toward japan in Korea is increasing every year. Regular people actually like each other and that's the most important indication of their improving relationship. It was just a bad timing for the Japanese to announce the change in textbook after they got a huge donation. They should have brought that out 6 month later. Their argument is also pretty weak since Korea has full control of that island and there isn't really any clear historical proof for Japan to claim it. Also most historical documents favor the Korean side. I personally think they should just give up since it's only putting a dent to the improving relationship. Even if they had a good claim, there is no chance that they'll get it back unless they invade Korea which they know is impossible. It's like trying to break a wall with raw eggs. They gain nothing from it other than exciting the right wing minority. | ||
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