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Message to Admin:
I believe all that should be said, and shouldn't be said about this topic has already been exhausted.
Too much hate and this is becoming hate war among strangers already. All heat, no light. Arguments, no matter how intense, educated by respect and facts are always welcome. But the replies here are not only impertinent, they are also plain ignorant.
I do not see how SC2, esports, and TL as a community hopes to benefit or be enlightened by comments like this. Please, please close. Thanks.
Peace to Japan. Our prayers with you in this difficult time.
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On April 01 2011 12:59 shinku) wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 11:26 Oxymoron wrote:
Have any of you ever considered that Korea feels "betrayed" by Japan's claim that the islands belong to them? They have donated an enormous amount to money to Japan for the recent earthquakes, only to have Japanese textbooks claim their territory in return.
Also, I noticed that the sign is in English, which leads me to believe that the message as aimed not towards Korea or Japan, but to the rest of the world. This is a world championship tournament after all, and I assume his goal was to spread awareness of this issue. Judging by this thread, MKP had been quite successful. Good job. Do you know how much money Japan gave to Korea through ODA? That's the huge reason why Korea could have built modern country.(That's also the reason why China could build up military to match up against USA and now being problematic lol) Also do you know how much Japan helped Korea when they were in economic crisis? Koreans don't know them. Or hide them to citizens. Because they're so arrogant and ignorant so they can never admit or accept they have been helped by Japan for so many years in so many ways. Instead of being thankful they teach kids to hate Japanese. It's in their identity. They can NEVER admit that they're helped by Japan to build the country they have right now. Korea feels "betrayed"? No it's completely other way around. Like it or not, TL is a basically "Korean" forum. Whether educated or not, most of TL will take the Korean side of any random story. I am a graduate of one of the most prestigious Asian Studies programs in the world and know more about this issue than most here would ever care about.
But!!!
That does not mean there is anything to be gained by discussing such things here. Convincing anyone besides the governments of Korea and Japan to work this out (I know this is far, far down the list of Shit To Deal With Soon) is an exercise in frustration, not to mention irrelevant.
There is not going to be serious international pressure for either side to fix things, either. MKP is an idiot because of his choice of venue and likely ill-informed. The internet is full of the babbling of idiots without this gesture inciting more random nonsense talk (mentioning the Japanese textbook thing as an excuse is lulz).
I am not the thread police here but if I were this would be closed.
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On April 01 2011 12:59 shinku) wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 11:26 Oxymoron wrote:
Have any of you ever considered that Korea feels "betrayed" by Japan's claim that the islands belong to them? They have donated an enormous amount to money to Japan for the recent earthquakes, only to have Japanese textbooks claim their territory in return.
Also, I noticed that the sign is in English, which leads me to believe that the message as aimed not towards Korea or Japan, but to the rest of the world. This is a world championship tournament after all, and I assume his goal was to spread awareness of this issue. Judging by this thread, MKP had been quite successful. Good job. Do you know how much money Japan gave to Korea through ODA? That's the huge reason why Korea could have built modern country.(That's also the reason why China could build up military to match up against USA and now being problematic lol) Also do you know how much Japan helped Korea when they were in economic crisis? Koreans don't know them. Or hide them to citizens. Because they're so arrogant and ignorant so they can never admit or accept they have been helped by Japan for so many years in so many ways. Instead of being thankful they teach kids to hate Japanese. It's in their identity. They can NEVER admit that they're helped by Japan to build the country they have right now. Korea feels "betrayed"? No it's completely other way around.
i'm sorry, is this guy troll? does he even know what japan did pre ww2 in asia? wtf????
past is past. forgive but never forget.
as for op.
free speech. i think they should be able to say whatever they want as long as it doesn't cross the line, like "down with the jews" or "rebbecca black for president". actually, the latter will be awesome. dispute isn't like racism or hatred or religion in my opinion.
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On April 02 2011 12:15 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 12:59 shinku) wrote:On April 01 2011 11:26 Oxymoron wrote:
Have any of you ever considered that Korea feels "betrayed" by Japan's claim that the islands belong to them? They have donated an enormous amount to money to Japan for the recent earthquakes, only to have Japanese textbooks claim their territory in return.
Also, I noticed that the sign is in English, which leads me to believe that the message as aimed not towards Korea or Japan, but to the rest of the world. This is a world championship tournament after all, and I assume his goal was to spread awareness of this issue. Judging by this thread, MKP had been quite successful. Good job. Do you know how much money Japan gave to Korea through ODA? That's the huge reason why Korea could have built modern country.(That's also the reason why China could build up military to match up against USA and now being problematic lol) Also do you know how much Japan helped Korea when they were in economic crisis? Koreans don't know them. Or hide them to citizens. Because they're so arrogant and ignorant so they can never admit or accept they have been helped by Japan for so many years in so many ways. Instead of being thankful they teach kids to hate Japanese. It's in their identity. They can NEVER admit that they're helped by Japan to build the country they have right now. Korea feels "betrayed"? No it's completely other way around. i'm sorry, is this guy troll? does he even know what japan did pre ww2 in asia? wtf???? past is past. forgive but never forget.
Well said, Though Japan is a good country now, I personally love J-Pop and d Anime, and alot of the Japanese Culture, Time has passed, we can be friends again but, people shouldn't forget about what was done to them in the past. No matter how much time passes the sins won't be washed away. It's just how it is. When people from other countries kill a bunch of your people, It dishonors the dead when you just forget it ever happened
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Ok Chinese and Koreans can hate Japanese for what they've done in the PAST. But Japanese are starting to hate Chinese and Koreans for what they're doing RIGHT NOW. They come to Japan and commit alot of crime such as stealing and murdering people. Koreans who live and use japanese name are the ones that are worst. They are the one who decided to stay in japan after the ww2, yet they pretend like they were forced to stay. Therefore they act like they're victims, and they ask for alot of special privileges most japanese don't even know.
Yes most Japanese don't know about them. Why? Because they hide them selves from being known. When those Koreans-live-in-Japan commit crime, They use Japanese name. So people think it was Japanese criminal, not Korean. Bull shit.
Remember recently, Chinese ship rammed into Japanese ship. Remember? First Chinese pretended like they were victims, because media is so corrupted and don't even show truth because they think "japan-china relationship is more important". But because of one brave man, now we all know chinese were the aggressors.
Just like these, despite how much rotten japanese government tries to hide truth. People started knowing so many crimes done by both Chinese and Korean people in past so many years. Or should I say ever since ww2 ended. People from those countries feel so justified doing these crimes on japanese, because of something they weren't even born at time.
Sins will be never gone. Sure if you didn't fight war but still think you have all the rights to accuse japan, prepare to take accuse from japanese for what your people been doing too. In your theory, you can not refuse just because crimes were done by someone you don't even know.
User was warned for this post
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On April 02 2011 13:18 shinku) wrote:
Ok Chinese and Koreans can hate Japanese for what they've done in the PAST. But Japanese are starting to hate Chinese and Koreans for what they're doing RIGHT NOW. They come to Japan and commit alot of crime such as stealing and murdering people. Koreans who live and use japanese name are the ones that are worst. They are the one who decided to stay in japan after the ww2, yet they pretend like they were forced to stay. Therefore they act like they're victims, and they ask for alot of special privileges most japanese don't even know.
Yes most Japanese don't know about them. Why? Because they hide them selves from being known. When those Koreans-live-in-Japan commit crime, They use Japanese name. So people think it was Japanese criminal, not Korean. Bull shit.
Remember recently, Chinese ship rammed into Japanese ship. Remember? First Chinese pretended like they were victims, because media is so corrupted and don't even show truth because they think "japan-china relationship is more important". But because of one brave man, now we all know chinese were the aggressors.
Just like these, despite how much rotten japanese government tries to hide truth. People started knowing so many crimes done by both Chinese and Korean people in past so many years. Or should I say ever since ww2 ended. People from those countries feel so justified doing these crimes on japanese, because of something they weren't even born at time.
Sins will be never gone. Sure if you didn't fight war but still think you have all the rights to accuse japan, prepare to take accuse from japanese for what your people been doing too. In your theory, you can not refuse just because crimes were done by someone you don't even know.
generalizing, stereotyping, story from one side of the view.
ignorance, nationalism, blindness to human nature were the only things i could understand from what you wrote.
i hope one day you realize that everything and everyone has an ugly side. i can nitpick every little crap against japanese and the same you can do for koreans. there is no need to go there, its a retarded argument and should only be done for shits and giggles - with friends.
if you want to display displeasure in politics, go hold up a sign.
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if you want to display displeasure in politics, go hold up a sign.
That's what you Koreans been doing it isn't it? In soccer scene. In baseball scene(WBC) in every other scenes Koreans bring up retarded politics signs when it has no place to.
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16986 Posts
Hi everyone.
Try to stay civil.
Thanks.
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On April 02 2011 12:15 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 12:59 shinku) wrote:On April 01 2011 11:26 Oxymoron wrote:
Have any of you ever considered that Korea feels "betrayed" by Japan's claim that the islands belong to them? They have donated an enormous amount to money to Japan for the recent earthquakes, only to have Japanese textbooks claim their territory in return.
Also, I noticed that the sign is in English, which leads me to believe that the message as aimed not towards Korea or Japan, but to the rest of the world. This is a world championship tournament after all, and I assume his goal was to spread awareness of this issue. Judging by this thread, MKP had been quite successful. Good job. Do you know how much money Japan gave to Korea through ODA? That's the huge reason why Korea could have built modern country.(That's also the reason why China could build up military to match up against USA and now being problematic lol) Also do you know how much Japan helped Korea when they were in economic crisis? Koreans don't know them. Or hide them to citizens. Because they're so arrogant and ignorant so they can never admit or accept they have been helped by Japan for so many years in so many ways. Instead of being thankful they teach kids to hate Japanese. It's in their identity. They can NEVER admit that they're helped by Japan to build the country they have right now. Korea feels "betrayed"? No it's completely other way around. i'm sorry, is this guy troll? does he even know what japan did pre ww2 in asia? wtf???? past is past. forgive but never forget. as for op. free speech. i think they should be able to say whatever they want as long as it doesn't cross the line, like "down with the jews" or "rebbecca black for president". actually, the latter will be awesome. dispute isn't like racism or hatred or religion in my opinion.
But you can't make specific alterations that say "down with the jews" is wrong, because what if someone says "the jews should go down", is that suddenly legal?
In practicality a change to the freedom of speech would be made that outlaws "undesired" speech. At that point you now have the loophole needed to bring freedom of speech down, and a future government could easily call your criticism of them "undesired".
You cannot limit free speech. The only cap you can place on it is when a person directly calls for violence "i want you to go and kill jews" for example. Even then it has to be direct call to violence, not a semi-call to violence because again, with such a rule in place you can start linking everything to violence and say that it's illegal speech.
Personally i prefer if people can say "down with the jews" because atleast then i know i don't want anything to do with that person.
I think politics has a place in all sports, but like with most messages i don't enjoy the in-your-face messages such as these.
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In my personal opinion statements such as this are utterly stupid.
They only encourage intolerance, hatred and other animositys.
Yes Players should make political statements if they encourage, tolerance, peace, environmentals and other "good" things.
WTF is dorky island anyway ? Do people even live on these rocks and if no, these ilands should belong to no one, japans and koreans only QQ bout them ?
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Dokdo_20080628-panorama.jpg/800px-Dokdo_20080628-panorama.jpg)
lol @ when I saw the *islands* picture.
Everyone makeing territorial claims to these rocks is nuts. USA, should nuke it and the island is gone and QQ is gone ^^
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On April 02 2011 16:03 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2011 12:15 jinorazi wrote:On April 01 2011 12:59 shinku) wrote:On April 01 2011 11:26 Oxymoron wrote:
Have any of you ever considered that Korea feels "betrayed" by Japan's claim that the islands belong to them? They have donated an enormous amount to money to Japan for the recent earthquakes, only to have Japanese textbooks claim their territory in return.
Also, I noticed that the sign is in English, which leads me to believe that the message as aimed not towards Korea or Japan, but to the rest of the world. This is a world championship tournament after all, and I assume his goal was to spread awareness of this issue. Judging by this thread, MKP had been quite successful. Good job. Do you know how much money Japan gave to Korea through ODA? That's the huge reason why Korea could have built modern country.(That's also the reason why China could build up military to match up against USA and now being problematic lol) Also do you know how much Japan helped Korea when they were in economic crisis? Koreans don't know them. Or hide them to citizens. Because they're so arrogant and ignorant so they can never admit or accept they have been helped by Japan for so many years in so many ways. Instead of being thankful they teach kids to hate Japanese. It's in their identity. They can NEVER admit that they're helped by Japan to build the country they have right now. Korea feels "betrayed"? No it's completely other way around. i'm sorry, is this guy troll? does he even know what japan did pre ww2 in asia? wtf???? past is past. forgive but never forget. as for op. free speech. i think they should be able to say whatever they want as long as it doesn't cross the line, like "down with the jews" or "rebbecca black for president". actually, the latter will be awesome. dispute isn't like racism or hatred or religion in my opinion. But you can't make specific alterations that say "down with the jews" is wrong, because what if someone says "the jews should go down", is that suddenly legal? In practicality a change to the freedom of speech would be made that outlaws "undesired" speech. At that point you now have the loophole needed to bring freedom of speech down, and a future government could easily call your criticism of them "undesired". You cannot limit free speech. The only cap you can place on it is when a person directly calls for violence "i want you to go and kill jews" for example. Even then it has to be direct call to violence, not a semi-call to violence because again, with such a rule in place you can start linking everything to violence and say that it's illegal speech. Personally i prefer if people can say "down with the jews" because atleast then i know i don't want anything to do with that person. I think politics has a place in all sports, but like with most messages i don't enjoy the in-your-face messages such as these.
i was saying that in a very general sense. just like the poll shows, some will agree and some will disagree. since there will be people doing it for right or wrong reasons, just be civil about it.
for example, burning the koran was not necessary.
On April 02 2011 14:00 shinku) wrote:That's what you Koreans been doing it isn't it? In soccer scene. In baseball scene(WBC) in every other scenes Koreans bring up retarded politics signs when it has no place to.
stop saying "you", that was my point. not all koreans are alike. just like not all japanese are alike. you for example, is showing a bad example of a japanese, if you are one.
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*fixed*
![[image loading]](http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2092/hzxynb.jpg)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
if you know better political statements, show them :D
ps: damn typo ^^
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You can't tell them they can't do it, otherwise we're as bad as kespa. We can, however, frown upon it.
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On April 02 2011 12:15 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 12:59 shinku) wrote:On April 01 2011 11:26 Oxymoron wrote:
Have any of you ever considered that Korea feels "betrayed" by Japan's claim that the islands belong to them? They have donated an enormous amount to money to Japan for the recent earthquakes, only to have Japanese textbooks claim their territory in return.
Also, I noticed that the sign is in English, which leads me to believe that the message as aimed not towards Korea or Japan, but to the rest of the world. This is a world championship tournament after all, and I assume his goal was to spread awareness of this issue. Judging by this thread, MKP had been quite successful. Good job. Do you know how much money Japan gave to Korea through ODA? That's the huge reason why Korea could have built modern country.(That's also the reason why China could build up military to match up against USA and now being problematic lol) Also do you know how much Japan helped Korea when they were in economic crisis? Koreans don't know them. Or hide them to citizens. Because they're so arrogant and ignorant so they can never admit or accept they have been helped by Japan for so many years in so many ways. Instead of being thankful they teach kids to hate Japanese. It's in their identity. They can NEVER admit that they're helped by Japan to build the country they have right now. Korea feels "betrayed"? No it's completely other way around. i'm sorry, is this guy troll? does he even know what japan did pre ww2 in asia? wtf???? past is past. forgive but never forget. as for op. free speech. i think they should be able to say whatever they want as long as it doesn't cross the line, like "down with the jews" or "rebbecca black for president". actually, the latter will be awesome. dispute isn't like racism or hatred or religion in my opinion.
What someone did 60 years ago shouldn't really play into anything. Japan then, and Japan now are completely separate entities, by holding them responsible for things well into their past, you're keeping the hatred going.
EDIT: I think I may as well state that I have some experience dealing with this. My family is Jewish (my grandma's surname was even Klein) during Germany's occupation of the Netherlands. My family escaped because three of my grandma's siblings served in the SS to try and hide them. I even own an Iron Cross, that has been passed down after those siblings killed themselves because they couldn't deal with what they had done. I don't harbor ANY ill will, or resentment for German people at all. I've even had intellectual debates with neo-nazi's. What's been done in the past should stay there.
EDIT 2: Godwin's Law >.>.
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On April 02 2011 16:36 Holy_AT wrote:*fixed* Uploaded with ImageShack.us if you know better political statements, show them :D ps: damn typo ^^
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/m2rH5.jpg)
is what I would say but......
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ttavT.jpg)
is what I like better
On April 02 2011 16:48 Sixotanaka wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2011 12:15 jinorazi wrote:On April 01 2011 12:59 shinku) wrote:On April 01 2011 11:26 Oxymoron wrote:
Have any of you ever considered that Korea feels "betrayed" by Japan's claim that the islands belong to them? They have donated an enormous amount to money to Japan for the recent earthquakes, only to have Japanese textbooks claim their territory in return.
Also, I noticed that the sign is in English, which leads me to believe that the message as aimed not towards Korea or Japan, but to the rest of the world. This is a world championship tournament after all, and I assume his goal was to spread awareness of this issue. Judging by this thread, MKP had been quite successful. Good job. Do you know how much money Japan gave to Korea through ODA? That's the huge reason why Korea could have built modern country.(That's also the reason why China could build up military to match up against USA and now being problematic lol) Also do you know how much Japan helped Korea when they were in economic crisis? Koreans don't know them. Or hide them to citizens. Because they're so arrogant and ignorant so they can never admit or accept they have been helped by Japan for so many years in so many ways. Instead of being thankful they teach kids to hate Japanese. It's in their identity. They can NEVER admit that they're helped by Japan to build the country they have right now. Korea feels "betrayed"? No it's completely other way around. i'm sorry, is this guy troll? does he even know what japan did pre ww2 in asia? wtf???? past is past. forgive but never forget. as for op. free speech. i think they should be able to say whatever they want as long as it doesn't cross the line, like "down with the jews" or "rebbecca black for president". actually, the latter will be awesome. dispute isn't like racism or hatred or religion in my opinion. What someone did 60 years ago shouldn't really play into anything. Japan then, and Japan now are completely separate entities, by holding them responsible for things well into their past, you're keeping the hatred going.
Well you know the part about holding them responsible, Japan has been pretty bad when it comes to taking responsibilities for their action or even admitting their actions during WW2 in Asia. so if they aren't willing to take an ounce of responsibility it's difficult to just forget about it. since the war really did serious damage to Korea and China.
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On March 31 2011 19:51 Carras wrote:
yes,why not, hes just expressing his thougths .. or do u just want a little robot who can play a game ?
Nobody said he can't have an opinion, but expressing them on a television show about a game which holds no relevance to SC2 is a bit out of order. Maybe if you stopped derping and using your own extreme wording to make it seem like MKP should be completely stripped of his personality then maybe you'd realise how stupid what you said is.
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stop saying "you", that was my point. not all koreans are alike. just like not all japanese are alike. you for example, is showing a bad example of a japanese, if you are one.
That's funny. Then whats good example of japanese? Japanese that appologize about something they aren't responsible nor even part of? Japanese that forgive every korean criminals because of something that was done before either aggressor nor victim were born?
If every japanese apologize about ww2 when they meet any koreans do your ego feel satisfied?
It's so disgusting how some of korean's mind sets are when it comes to history. Very very disgusting. They think every bad thing they do/say on japanese is justified because of something they weren't even part of. And blind themselves purposely from the help they recieved from japan.
My stance, I don't even wanna brag nor ask how much koreans should be thankful. Nor do I take any historical bullshit from koreans. I DON'T CARE ALL KOREANS STFU.
But koreans keep it going why? Because they want more money and they want something to hate on just so they feel better.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Most of us live in democracies, and stating our opinion is our duty. This does especially include popular people because they are often role models of some sort.
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On April 02 2011 17:57 shinku) wrote:Show nested quote +stop saying "you", that was my point. not all koreans are alike. just like not all japanese are alike. you for example, is showing a bad example of a japanese, if you are one. That's funny. Then whats good example of japanese? Japanese that appologize about something they aren't responsible nor even part of? Japanese that forgive every korean criminals because of something that was done before either aggressor nor victim were born? If every japanese apologize about ww2 when they meet any koreans do your ego feel satisfied? It's so disgusting how some of korean's mind sets are when it comes to history. Very very disgusting. They think every bad thing they do/say on japanese is justified because of something they weren't even part of. And blind themselves purposely from the help they recieved from japan. My stance, I don't even wanna brag nor ask how much koreans should be thankful. Nor do I take any historical bullshit from koreans. I DON'T CARE ALL KOREANS STFU. But koreans keep it going why? Because they want more money and they want something to hate on just so they feel better.
go troll youtube, tlnet is not the place.
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I feel that professional gamers, just like professional athletes are allowed to have a political opinion, and should be allowed to express it in public, but not at a sports/game/whatever event where they show up to 'work'. While in the booth their job is to play the game and it should not be mingled with expressing political views. We don't want Kobe Bryant, after a huge dunk in the 4th quarter, to shout at the crowd "don't forget to vote republican"; we don't want progamers after winning a set to wave around signs with their political views. Keep it separated from the game.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img708.imageshack.us/i/hzxynb.jpg/)
