EPTSC2 & Politics - Page 9
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Manifesto7
Osaka27158 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
Right now, there is no significant enough political conflict between most foreigners and Koreans such that they're likely to make statements that might be offensive to most foreigners (there probably aren't that many Japanese viewers, though I might be wrong). But imagine if this were to change. Imagine the next issue brought up is "America stop invading other countries!" or "China get out of Tibet!" or other politically divisive issues. Would such actions cause an outcry amongst the targeted populations? Probably. Would it worsen relations between countries and players in eSports? Probably. Imagine if every eSports tournament had players making political statements against each other, and every tournament match involved political conflicts between players from different countries. Would that help make eSports better, or would it turn it into a political battleground? Of course, such scenarios refer to extremes. MKP's behavior is probably not going to catch on amongst most other players. Still, by making a statement in support or against his behavior, viewers can have an effect on the direction eSports develops. | ||
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Oxymoron
Canada137 Posts
On April 01 2011 11:34 zhurai wrote: tbh I'm watching for the games, and imo ceremonies RELATING to the game are fine imo..... but I'm not there to look at that. Also that's kinda in bad taste, Japan's still having trouble about the earthquake (well at least rebuilding), and then a progamer goes and says HURR HURR "THAT BLAHBLAH LAND IS OURS" isn't...wat ('-') or at least if you have that opinion, putting it in that environment isn't the best place to express that. the territory is 1) disputed, so you can't say that korea is right about this either. 2) you realize the textbooks were written before this donation and before the earthquake........ right? 1. Dokdo has been administrated by South Korea for a long time now. 2. Public anger only arose recently. I have no idea when the textbooks are published, but this stuff is all over the news in Korea recently, so I can only assume it is a recent issue. http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=040000&biid=2011033181598 | ||
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Marou
Germany1371 Posts
 If you have strong opinions plus the will and oportunity to defend them, i don't have any problems with that, even if the ideas are a stockpile of shit. Worse case scenario you end up looking like a retard but you did stand for what you think is fair and this is always something good as long as you are not actually retarted, you might learn things through exanching ideas with people that doesn't support your ideas. Since we are talking about SC2 progamers, they're Also i largely prefer a player standing for his belief, even shitty, rather than reading the same interviews over and over again (with only the presentation differing x) But imagine if this were to change. Imagine the next issue brought up is "America stop invading other countries!" or "China get out of Tibet!" or other politically divisive issues. I only wish that will happen some day, just like it did in "regular" sports. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On April 01 2011 11:42 Oxymoron wrote: 1. Dokdo has been administrated by South Korea for a long time now. 2. Public anger only arose recently. I have no idea when the textbooks are published, but this stuff is all over the news in Korea recently, so I can only assume it is a recent issue. http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=040000&biid=2011033181598 oh ok still bad time to randomly say this and bad _place_ to vent it out. | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
Well, he's welcome to say whatever the hell he wants. This isn't dreadfully offensive, in very poor taste mind, but not like he's cursing or what have you, so I don't see the need for any censorship or punishment. As a fan, this is pointless crap and I don't want to see it. I'm here to watch StarCraft, after all. Fortunately, we can choose to not be a fan of MKP should any of us be sufficiently annoyed by his pointless crap. | ||
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Oxymoron
Canada137 Posts
On April 01 2011 11:47 Kanil wrote: Hm, this is... curious. Well, he's welcome to say whatever the hell he wants. This isn't dreadfully offensive, in very poor taste mind, but not like he's cursing or what have you, so I don't see the need for any censorship or punishment. As a fan, this is pointless crap and I don't want to see it. I'm here to watch StarCraft, after all. Fortunately, we can choose to not be a fan of MKP should any of us be sufficiently annoyed by his pointless crap. http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ko&u=http://www.playxp.com/news/read.php?news_id=2719893&ei=_zyVTcWjI-nWiAKPhsmBCQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBsQ7gEwAA&prev=/search?q=http://www.playxp.com/news/read.php%3Fnews_id%3D2719893&hl=en&client=opera&hs=Owp&rls=en&channel=suggest&prmd=ivns Not MKP's decision. The Starcraft 2 Council in decided on it. Apparently all future progamers were supposed to hold up the sign, but I think MKP was the only one who did. | ||
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Slix36
United Kingdom145 Posts
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tnt_titan
Canada194 Posts
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shinku)
Japan12 Posts
On April 01 2011 11:26 Oxymoron wrote: Have any of you ever considered that Korea feels "betrayed" by Japan's claim that the islands belong to them? They have donated an enormous amount to money to Japan for the recent earthquakes, only to have Japanese textbooks claim their territory in return. Also, I noticed that the sign is in English, which leads me to believe that the message as aimed not towards Korea or Japan, but to the rest of the world. This is a world championship tournament after all, and I assume his goal was to spread awareness of this issue. Judging by this thread, MKP had been quite successful. Good job. Do you know how much money Japan gave to Korea through ODA? That's the huge reason why Korea could have built modern country.(That's also the reason why China could build up military to match up against USA and now being problematic lol) Also do you know how much Japan helped Korea when they were in economic crisis? Koreans don't know them. Or hide them to citizens. Because they're so arrogant and ignorant so they can never admit or accept they have been helped by Japan for so many years in so many ways. Instead of being thankful they teach kids to hate Japanese. It's in their identity. They can NEVER admit that they're helped by Japan to build the country they have right now. Korea feels "betrayed"? No it's completely other way around. | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On April 01 2011 11:41 Azarkon wrote: Imagine the next issue brought up is "America stop invading other countries!" Oh, the horror! How much worse can life be?? Imagine your own country invaded by a foreign military for the sake of power and wealth, playing Starcraft with real people, with the real world. Imagine this country being the fattest nation in the world. Imagine this nation's population going to work every day like mindless drones to pay taxes that will pay for all the horrendous violence. Imagine all these spineless wimps complaining on their forum because the actions of their pathetic, anti-social, anti-freedom, immoral government was brought up to them while they were trying to enjoy their precious esports. Now stop imagining and go look in a mirror. You should be ashamed of yourself. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On April 01 2011 11:26 Oxymoron wrote:Also, I noticed that the sign is in English, which leads me to believe that the message as aimed not towards Korea or Japan, but to the rest of the world. This is a world championship tournament after all, and I assume his goal was to spread awareness of this issue. Judging by this thread, MKP had been quite successful. I still don't understand what the wider relevance is? Sure, now I'm aware that there's a dispute but I fail to see why I should care. Actually, quite the opposite, it feels like a very minor issue that has been blown way out of proportion. And even if it is important for Koreans surely they must see how unimportant it is for the world at large. I mean, what was he expecting? People won't go: "wow, Japan is claiming a rock for themselves when it's actually Korea's, that's just terrible". | ||
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Terrakin
United States1440 Posts
On April 01 2011 14:28 hypercube wrote: I still don't understand what the wider relevance is? Sure, now I'm aware that there's a dispute but I fail to see why I should care. Actually, quite the opposite, it feels like a very minor issue that has been blown way out of proportion. And even if it is important for Koreans surely they must see how unimportant it is for the world at large. I mean, what was he expecting? People won't go: "wow, Japan is claiming a rock for themselves when it's actually Korea's, that's just terrible". Pretty much this, on PlayXP they talk about the SC2 Council and something about since its broadcast in so many countries they want them (foreigner fans) to support that dokdo belongs to korea. I guess they don't understand that most of us only really care about the game.. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On April 01 2011 01:38 Noxie wrote: He is having his 5 minutes of fame. I feel why he has everyone's eye's and ears. Let him get his message across. If you want it out of esports then ignore it. I am sure your favorite actor or musician has done the exact same thing during some speech, concert etc. Actors don't hold up placards in the middle of movies. Perhaps musicians have more license to do it, but it is THEIR show. You go to a Rebecca Black concert to see Rebecca Black, whether she is singing or reciting her Nazi ideology. You go to a sports stadium to see sports. Not to see the players hold a political debate on the issue of abortion. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
If MKP would've talked about Dokdo in a GSL interview session, I'd be a lot more fine with it. Not only would he not be insulting his opponent, but he could actually talk about the issue. Instead MKP waves a little sign after winning his series... as if the winning a series of video-game matches says anything about the Dokdo issue (I wish he lost, just because I'm curious if he would've still waved the sign, or would that somehow make it not okay). Sorry, MKP, you're a 17 year-old who excels at video-games, why should I take your politics at face value? Do I need to research every political topic a pro-gamer brings up (provided he wins his game, of course) and throw some sort of actual support for a local cause in a region that's on the other side of the planet? Or am I just watching these guys because they spend 8 hours a day playing Starcraft? After Dimaga wins his next series, maybe he should draft a billboard illustrating Ukraine's conflict with Russia cutting off Ukraine's oil imports due to unpaid fees? That'd be really honorable of him to speak his mind like that. It'd be completely appropriate [/sarcasm] If Korean pro-gamers want to reach out to the "foreigners" about an issue important to them, I think they could find a better way of doing it then having one of them wave a sign after winning a game against a "foreign" opponent in a tournament whose charity is meant to go to the same people whose government's politics you're opposing. On April 01 2011 13:36 Treemonkeys wrote: Oh, the horror! How much worse can life be?? Imagine your own country invaded by a foreign military for the sake of power and wealth, playing Starcraft with real people, with the real world. Imagine this country being the fattest nation in the world. Imagine this nation's population going to work every day like mindless drones to pay taxes that will pay for all the horrendous violence. Imagine all these spineless wimps complaining on their forum because the actions of their pathetic, anti-social, anti-freedom, immoral government was brought up to them while they were trying to enjoy their precious esports. Now stop imagining and go look in a mirror. You should be ashamed of yourself. I think you need to look in the mirror, because you have the holier-than-thou attitude. "Mindless drones" who *gasp* "pay taxes"? "Anti-social" and "anti-freedom"? Oh noes. Surely anyone who doesn't want to be bothered with politics while watching a Starcraft match, and is an American, fits all those flattering descriptors you listed. I love people who talk about how America is full of propaganda and mindlessness, while they "drone" on a list on mindless insults. Look in the mirror, they say. | ||
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hidiliho
Canada685 Posts
On April 01 2011 11:36 Manifesto7 wrote: Wrong time and place in my opinion. Agreed. SC target audience is far away from being political. | ||
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nexitustl1
156 Posts
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On April 01 2011 15:12 nexitustl1 wrote: I personally believe there is no room in e-sports for political comments such as this and snarky immature political pokes that Nick and Dan have been currently making. I think it turns people off big time and is not the place and rather unprofessional directly effecting sponsors or direct causes you have such as the current donations towards japan. That's a good point. I'm not a Republican and I usually laugh at the Fox News jokes, but it's not good for business. Tasteless should probably ease off on that. However, his job is to be a "personality" and express himself on a somewhat personal level. It's not an excuse, but I can understand how it might happen that he'd make a political joke now and then. I just hope he does realize it's not a good thing to do. You don't change people's minds by randomly throwing your politics in their face. It's useless for your politics, and is usually insulting to somebody. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On April 01 2011 15:00 Leporello wrote: No one seems to mention the opponent... If MKP would've talked about Dokdo in a GSL interview session, I'd be a lot more fine with it. Not only would he not be insulting his opponent, but he could actually talk about the issue. Instead MKP waves a little sign after winning his series... as if the winning a series of video-game matches says anything about the Dokdo issue (I wish he lost, just because I'm curious if he would've still waved the sign, or would that somehow make it not okay). Sorry, MKP, you're a 17 year-old who excels at video-games, why should I take your politics at face value? Do I need to research every political topic a pro-gamer brings up (provided he wins his game, of course) and throw some sort of actual support for a local cause in a region that's on the other side of the planet? Or am I just watching these guys because they spend 8 hours a day playing Starcraft? After Dimaga wins his next series, maybe he should draft a billboard illustrating Ukraine's conflict with Russia cutting off Ukraine's oil imports due to unpaid fees? That'd be really honorable of him to speak his mind like that. It'd be completely appropriate [/sarcasm] If Korean pro-gamers want to reach out to the "foreigners" about an issue important to them, I think they could find a better way of doing it then having one of them wave a sign after winning a game against a "foreign" opponent in a tournament whose charity is meant to go to the same people whose government's politics you're opposing. also the fact that Sen isn't from Japan, he's from Taiwan. And dokdo has nothing to do with him, so why do that as a ceremony. (other than the fact to "oh hey foreign community, WE THINK THIS PIECE OF ROCK IS OURS") | ||
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Kenderson
Canada280 Posts
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