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Please guys, stay on topic.
This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. |
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On October 25 2015 03:07 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2015 02:06 sgtnoobkilla wrote:On October 24 2015 17:04 zeo wrote:
The Russian bombing campaign has signaled the beginning of the end for this horrible war, Not even close. Even if the civil war somehow ended tomorrow there would immediately be a new insurgency starting the next day. If anything, Russian involvement has merely given more of an incentive to the Gulf crew to do more for their "allies" (which means more TOWs for everyone!). I said we were in the final faze so to speak. Russia has done more damage to the Islamic State and other terrorist groups in two weeks than the US lead coalition has done in 13 months. Al Nusra and ISIS are throwing everything they have got into beating off the Syrian Army and yet they are still losing significant ground, at the same time their infrastructure lays in ruins and no amount of '50 tons of ammunition air dropped for moderate islamic extremists has suddenly gone missing' is going to change the fact that within 4 months most of Syria will be under the control of the Syrian people and their government. Any ISIS or salafi wahabi insurgency is going to be destroyed and the ground that they pop out of will be salted. In any case Syria has already started rebuilding itself in the areas that have been freed and the country can at least start to heal after the civil war ends. Yes, it has been ruined by war. Yes, the industrial heartland of the country has been a military front for years. Yes, a large chunk of the university educated population has gotten out of the county or been killed but Syria will survive and they will rebuild. A small insurgency is better than this war in every sense. Show nested quote +The SAA are retaking former territories that were lost a few months back while also simultaneously losing ground in other regions. Unless of course, you consider getting bottled up in Kweirs and the rest of your forces being bogged down in Aleppo's districts as being a sign of significant progress? And that doesn't account for whether they have the manpower to actually hold them without assistance from Hezbollah and the IRGC; which has its own problems as more and more Iranian advisers are being killed on a regular basis (with two alone being killed today actually). So unless the SAA manages to seize opposition strongholds like Aleppo (the entire city, not a small section...), seal the Bab al-Hawa border, retake key regions like all of Idlib and manage to hold them for more than a few days without creating a cauldron for themselves, then you can say that there have been "massive" changes. Until then, nothing significant has happened at all. The Syrian Army up until a month ago was completely written off, as I've said earlier in the post al Nusra and ISIS are throwing everything they've got at defending their positions and they are still being pushed back. Kweires air base has been under complete siege for 3 years now and its going to be lifted. The 'moderates' and ISIS are coordinating attacks to cut of SAA supply lines to Aleppo and they still couldn't break it. ISIS and al Nusra are just losing too much infrastructure and supplies to afford losing so much at the front lines. Many times in past wars you see an army spend itself on a front and then the whole thing just collapses. ISIS will be beyond saving within 4 months. News sources that take what one guy in his flat in Coventry that hasn't been to Syria in 15 years, who gets 'facts' from random people called 'activists' with no kind of fact-checking whatsoever.... well they don't really show the reality of the situation on the ground. Once they mop up the pockets in Hama ect. the Syrian army will have more than enough manpower to take Aleppo and the rest of Syria, there are more than 4 million internally displaced refugees which will want to go home and we see people who are very happy to see the Syrian army in the towns the SAA has taken from ISIS and al Nusra. Syria will have little to no problem holding onto whatever ground they take from whatever shade of terrorist. As for Saudi Arabia sending help... judging by how hard they are getting their butts kicked in Yemen they wont be in a position to help anyone very soon. In any case I won't be posting anymore in this thread, weather anyone agrees or disagrees with me, quote my post in February 2016 and see who was right. At least I got people talking about the war again.
"no amount of '50 tons of ammunition air dropped for moderate islamic extremists has suddenly gone missing' is going to change the fact "
Now the YPG and their arab allies are islamic extremists ? where do you get your propaganda ? i would like to read a bit. Comeback when you have something constructive to say instead of spilling propaganda.
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Images published by Islamic State claiming to show caputured SAA hardware, equipment and munition in Khannaser Supply road attack
http://imgur.com/a/yLI0y
3 T-72 Tanks
3 T-64 Tanks
5 37mm cannons
1 130mm(M-46) cannon
1 Shilka 1 BMP
2 Pickups+KPV HMG
From russia with love?
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On October 26 2015 22:44 ImFromPortugal wrote:Images published by Islamic State claiming to show caputured SAA hardware, equipment and munition in Khannaser Supply road attackhttp://imgur.com/a/yLI0y3 T-72 Tanks 3 T-64 Tanks 5 37mm cannons 1 130mm(M-46) cannon 1 Shilka 1 BMP 2 Pickups+KPV HMG From russia with love?
As far as I know, all these vehicles are very common in the area and have seen use by the armies of Iraq and Syria.
No wonder they fell into the hands of Daesh. If they don't happen to stumble on abandoned US hardware, older soviet/russian stuff is all they gonna get 
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[What are you even talking about? Where did I say YPG were wahabi terrorists? The Kurds and Assad have the same goals, the very few secular opposition rebels left joined the YPG long ago though basically they are a non-factor in the war now.
So are you saying the use of the phrase "50 tons of ammunition" was innocent ?
As i read your comment i immediately thought about this:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34509793
US-led coalition drops 50 tons of ammunition to anti-Isil Syrian rebels
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11927852/US-led-coalition-drops-50-tons-of-ammunition-to-anti-Isil-Syrian-rebels.html
The new Syrian Democratic Forces are a big deal and will have influence in the outcome of the war. This newly formed group has the Support of the United States and will serve as an umbrella for more FSA divisions to join and be protected from russian airstrikes. And so far the Kurds don't have the same goals as Assad, they have fought SAA forces before and will do so to keep their territorial integrity.
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you're trying to hard imo.
the instances in which US backed rebels traded, given, surrendered, gifted weapons to ISIL are many and well documented. a sarcastic remark on that is called for once in a while.
SDF will amount to nothing. the non-kurdish factions in there have very small armies and if turks jump on the kurds they're done for.
US can play the sore loser and keep on arming IS for a future in which ex-IS terrorists will bomb random targets in Syria and Iraq and kill innocent people.
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On October 27 2015 02:16 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +[What are you even talking about? Where did I say YPG were wahabi terrorists? The Kurds and Assad have the same goals, the very few secular opposition rebels left joined the YPG long ago though basically they are a non-factor in the war now. So are you saying the use of the phrase "50 tons of ammunition" was innocent ? As i read your comment i immediately thought about this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34509793US-led coalition drops 50 tons of ammunition to anti-Isil Syrian rebelshttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11927852/US-led-coalition-drops-50-tons-of-ammunition-to-anti-Isil-Syrian-rebels.htmlThe new Syrian Democratic Forces are a big deal and will have influence in the outcome of the war. This newly formed group has the Support of the United States and will serve as an umbrella for more FSA divisions to join and be protected from russian airstrikes. And so far the Kurds don't have the same goals as Assad, they have fought SAA forces before and will do so to keep their territorial integrity.
Oh... you mean this?
More than a week after the Pentagon announced that it had dropped 50 tons of ammunition to Syrian Arabs to support a new offensive against Islamic State extremists, it’s uncertain who exactly it reached.
Leaders of two principal Arab militias said they hadn’t received any arms aid and doubted that any Arab forces had.
“We didn’t get anything,” Sheikh Humaydi Daham al Hadi, the head of the Shammar tribe, told McClatchy in an interview at his palatial compound in Syria’s Hasaka province. “Maybe our partners, the Kurds did,” a reference to the People’s Protection Units, the YPG militia, which, with the help of U.S. air power, now dominates much of northeastern Syria.
Humaydi’s son, Bandar al Humaydi, who heads the al Sanadid militia, said that no Arab militia had received aid “so far as we know.”
“We got nothing, and it’s not clear at all (if we will),” Bandar told McClatchy by phone Tuesday evening.
Another Arab militia commander, Abu Issa, the commander of Liwa Thurwar Al-Raqqa, the Raqqa Revolutionaries, told McClatchy his forces in Raqqa province had not received any U.S. support. He, too, said he knew of no other Arab group that had.
U.S. officials were insistent, however, that the ammunition airdrop had gone where it was intended.
“The airdrop, again, was for the Syrian Arab Coalition,” Pentagon Press Secretary Peter Cook told reporters Tuesday. “It was successful. It went where it was intended, to the people who were intended to receive it.”
Asked whether any Kurdish militias had received at least some of the 50 tons of ammunition, Cook responded: “It was intended for the Syrian Arab Coalition.”
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/middle-east/article40532349.html
Maybe you should look into things more... just a suggestion... Bah, adding all this into my last post would have made it too long, anyway carry on.
edit: @Redox:
I think you should go back and read what I have written very carefully.
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On October 27 2015 02:40 xM(Z wrote:
you're trying to hard imo.
the instances in which US backed rebels traded, given, surrendered, gifted weapons to ISIL are many and well documented. a sarcastic remark on that is called for once in a while.
SDF will amount to nothing. the non-kurdish factions in there have very small armies and if turks jump on the kurds they're done for.
US can play the sore loser and keep on arming IS for a future in which ex-IS terrorists will bomb random targets in Syria and Iraq and kill innocent people.
Most of ISIS equipment is from Iraqi army, then SAA. Stuff from US given to other rebels that then came to ISIS should be rather negligable. There is a reason rebels have to film all of their ATGM shots. They only get new ones if they can prove they used up the old ones and did not give it away.
Also most of the support for questionable groups is coming from Turkey, Qatar, Saudiarabia. The role of the US is extremely overrated in comparison.
Calling YPG and their allies islamist extremists is simply factually wrong. These guys do actually fight ISIS and those weapons will help them with that. If you asked ISIS if they want YPG to get more weapons, do you honestly think they will say "Yes please because we will get all of them later on."?
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On October 27 2015 03:01 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 02:16 ImFromPortugal wrote:[What are you even talking about? Where did I say YPG were wahabi terrorists? The Kurds and Assad have the same goals, the very few secular opposition rebels left joined the YPG long ago though basically they are a non-factor in the war now. So are you saying the use of the phrase "50 tons of ammunition" was innocent ? As i read your comment i immediately thought about this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34509793US-led coalition drops 50 tons of ammunition to anti-Isil Syrian rebelshttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11927852/US-led-coalition-drops-50-tons-of-ammunition-to-anti-Isil-Syrian-rebels.htmlThe new Syrian Democratic Forces are a big deal and will have influence in the outcome of the war. This newly formed group has the Support of the United States and will serve as an umbrella for more FSA divisions to join and be protected from russian airstrikes. And so far the Kurds don't have the same goals as Assad, they have fought SAA forces before and will do so to keep their territorial integrity. Oh... you mean this? Show nested quote +More than a week after the Pentagon announced that it had dropped 50 tons of ammunition to Syrian Arabs to support a new offensive against Islamic State extremists, it’s uncertain who exactly it reached.
Leaders of two principal Arab militias said they hadn’t received any arms aid and doubted that any Arab forces had.
“We didn’t get anything,” Sheikh Humaydi Daham al Hadi, the head of the Shammar tribe, told McClatchy in an interview at his palatial compound in Syria’s Hasaka province. “Maybe our partners, the Kurds did,” a reference to the People’s Protection Units, the YPG militia, which, with the help of U.S. air power, now dominates much of northeastern Syria.
Humaydi’s son, Bandar al Humaydi, who heads the al Sanadid militia, said that no Arab militia had received aid “so far as we know.”
“We got nothing, and it’s not clear at all (if we will),” Bandar told McClatchy by phone Tuesday evening.
Another Arab militia commander, Abu Issa, the commander of Liwa Thurwar Al-Raqqa, the Raqqa Revolutionaries, told McClatchy his forces in Raqqa province had not received any U.S. support. He, too, said he knew of no other Arab group that had.
U.S. officials were insistent, however, that the ammunition airdrop had gone where it was intended.
“The airdrop, again, was for the Syrian Arab Coalition,” Pentagon Press Secretary Peter Cook told reporters Tuesday. “It was successful. It went where it was intended, to the people who were intended to receive it.”
Asked whether any Kurdish militias had received at least some of the 50 tons of ammunition, Cook responded: “It was intended for the Syrian Arab Coalition.” http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/middle-east/article40532349.htmlMaybe you should look into things more... just a suggestion... Bah, adding all this into my last post would have made it too long, anyway carry on.
So it looks like the Arab allies of the Kurds did not receive anything. Only the Kurds probably. Apparently the US is very selective about whom they give stuff. Should you not be glad about that? It makes your notion about how islamist extremists got them even more nonsensical though.
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you assumed some stuff in there. when i said US backed rebels i meant mostly FSA and what evolved form there.
kurds were never (syrian)rebels; they're mostly seen as of their own(even if backed by US&allies). i know they fight ISIS on some extent.
IS armament taken from Iraq was gifted(they were allowed to take it).
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On October 27 2015 03:01 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 02:16 ImFromPortugal wrote:[What are you even talking about? Where did I say YPG were wahabi terrorists? The Kurds and Assad have the same goals, the very few secular opposition rebels left joined the YPG long ago though basically they are a non-factor in the war now. So are you saying the use of the phrase "50 tons of ammunition" was innocent ? As i read your comment i immediately thought about this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34509793US-led coalition drops 50 tons of ammunition to anti-Isil Syrian rebelshttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11927852/US-led-coalition-drops-50-tons-of-ammunition-to-anti-Isil-Syrian-rebels.htmlThe new Syrian Democratic Forces are a big deal and will have influence in the outcome of the war. This newly formed group has the Support of the United States and will serve as an umbrella for more FSA divisions to join and be protected from russian airstrikes. And so far the Kurds don't have the same goals as Assad, they have fought SAA forces before and will do so to keep their territorial integrity. Oh... you mean this? Show nested quote +More than a week after the Pentagon announced that it had dropped 50 tons of ammunition to Syrian Arabs to support a new offensive against Islamic State extremists, it’s uncertain who exactly it reached.
Leaders of two principal Arab militias said they hadn’t received any arms aid and doubted that any Arab forces had.
“We didn’t get anything,” Sheikh Humaydi Daham al Hadi, the head of the Shammar tribe, told McClatchy in an interview at his palatial compound in Syria’s Hasaka province. “Maybe our partners, the Kurds did,” a reference to the People’s Protection Units, the YPG militia, which, with the help of U.S. air power, now dominates much of northeastern Syria.
Humaydi’s son, Bandar al Humaydi, who heads the al Sanadid militia, said that no Arab militia had received aid “so far as we know.”
“We got nothing, and it’s not clear at all (if we will),” Bandar told McClatchy by phone Tuesday evening.
Another Arab militia commander, Abu Issa, the commander of Liwa Thurwar Al-Raqqa, the Raqqa Revolutionaries, told McClatchy his forces in Raqqa province had not received any U.S. support. He, too, said he knew of no other Arab group that had.
U.S. officials were insistent, however, that the ammunition airdrop had gone where it was intended.
“The airdrop, again, was for the Syrian Arab Coalition,” Pentagon Press Secretary Peter Cook told reporters Tuesday. “It was successful. It went where it was intended, to the people who were intended to receive it.”
Asked whether any Kurdish militias had received at least some of the 50 tons of ammunition, Cook responded: “It was intended for the Syrian Arab Coalition.” http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/middle-east/article40532349.htmlMaybe you should look into things more... just a suggestion... Bah, adding all this into my last post would have made it too long, anyway carry on. edit: @Redox: I think you should go back and read what I have written very carefully.
That is politics.. they say they didn't get anything so to not antagonize the turks.
IS armament taken from Iraq was gifted(they were allowed to take it).
Care to explain your point of view if you don't mind ?
People talk like the US gave isis heavy weaponry, tanks and other armored vehicles and that's absurd.
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this is a gift - http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/05/20/isis-captures-hundreds-of-us-vehicles-and-tanks-in-ramadi-from-i.html
The ISIS fleet of captured U.S. military vehicles, including M1A1 tanks, grew by more than 100 when Iraqi Security Forces (ISF) fled the provincial capital of Ramadi 60 miles west of Baghdad and abandoned their equipment , Pentagon officials said Tuesday.
In addition, "there were some artillery pieces left behind," said Army Col. Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman, but he could not say how many.
About 100 wheeled vehicles and "in the neighborhood of dozens of tracked vehicles" were lost to ISIS when the last remaining Iraqi defenders abandoned the city of about 500,000, Warren said. that kind of shit never happens in a real war.
also, i posted links and leaks earlier in the thread about how Pentagon knew that a Daesh faction will emerge before anything happened in/with Syria/Iraq and also planed on using them(obviously not backing them up directly) to fight Assad(by proxy).
Edit:
you could also read
http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/230520158
By: Hemin Lihony
hlihony@rudaw.net
Transcript begins:
In the past year and half we engaged in major battles. At times, ISIS targeted the Iraqi Army and police with 25 car bombs, yet our forces managed to fight back and repel the attacks.
But this time there was a major betrayal by the Special Operations command. This command was formed by the Americans during [former] prime minister Nouri al-Maliki and they carried the latest advanced weapons.
Two days prior to the ISIS attack we had accurate information that the Special Operations had packed up and abandoned their base in Ramadi.
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On October 28 2015 17:23 xM(Z wrote:this is a gift - http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/05/20/isis-captures-hundreds-of-us-vehicles-and-tanks-in-ramadi-from-i.htmlShow nested quote +The ISIS fleet of captured U.S. military vehicles, including M1A1 tanks, grew by more than 100 when Iraqi Security Forces (ISF) fled the provincial capital of Ramadi 60 miles west of Baghdad and abandoned their equipment , Pentagon officials said Tuesday.
In addition, "there were some artillery pieces left behind," said Army Col. Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman, but he could not say how many.
About 100 wheeled vehicles and "in the neighborhood of dozens of tracked vehicles" were lost to ISIS when the last remaining Iraqi defenders abandoned the city of about 500,000, Warren said. that kind of shit never happens in a real war. also, i posted links and leaks earlier in the thread about how Pentagon knew that a Daesh faction will emerge before anything happened in/with Syria/Iraq and also planed on using them(obviously not backing them up directly) to fight Assad(by proxy).
Wait are you saying the US wanted the Iraqi army to flee the battle field and leave their equipment to ISIS as part of their grand plan to arm ISIS? Holy shit that is new levels of delusional.
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i never said wanted to but i could use indirectly allowed to if you prefer; or, OR!, to not hurt your western sensibilities: they created/were directly involved in the situation from which such happening occurred.
did you even read the second link?.
you should also read up on the history of the Ramadi base and not just instantly be offended by your own assumptions.
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On October 28 2015 19:26 xM(Z wrote:
i never said wanted to but i could use indirectly allowed to if you prefer; or, OR!, to not hurt your western sensibilities: they created/were directly involved in the situation from which such happening occurred.
did you even read the second link?.
you should also read up on the history of the Ramadi base and not just instantly be offended by your own assumptions.
You dont hurt my "western sensibilities" (Germans in general dont like the US and especially not its foreign policy btw), you hurt my feeling of common sense and rationality. Wtf does "indirectly allowed to" even mean? And what is with the Russian, Serbian and other arms exports to Iraq? Or the Russian equipment of SAA that went to ISIS and rebels? Are they also responsible for arming ISIS?
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i never said that everything, that every weapon IS captured, was wrapped up and delivered to them as a gift+ Show Spoiler +some were parachuted. lol, i had to; shit's just to funny
IS captured a host of other iraqi and syrian military bases(hard fought over, not abandoned). they captured old russian and even some chinese armament from there.
about the arms coming from the serbs, i remember linking here info on it happening with the blessing of US&allies(they kinda demanded it).
also, if you were really interested in this middle-eastern cluster fuck you'd read more about it ON YOUR OWN. you obviously didn't so why do we even bother talking?. you've already made up your mind and i don't care enough to try and convince you otherwise.
just read shit, the info is out there and i even linked some of it+ Show Spoiler +if you don't agree with the info from those links, it's fine i didn't write them anyways
glhf
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On October 28 2015 22:11 xM(Z wrote:i never said that everything, that every weapon IS captured, was wrapped up and delivered to them as a gift + Show Spoiler +some were parachuted. lol, i had to; shit's just to funny . i said there were instances in which it happened(and there are a couple more examples besides Ramadi). IS captured a host of other iraqi and syrian military bases(hard fought over, not abandoned). they captured old russian and even some chinese armament from there. about the arms coming from the serbs, i remember linking here info on it happening with the blessing of US&allies(they kinda demanded it). also, if you were really interested in this middle-eastern cluster fuck you'd read more about it ON YOUR OWN. you obviously didn't so why do we even bother talking?. you've already made up your mind and i don't care enough to try and convince you otherwise. just read shit, the info is out there and i even linked some of it + Show Spoiler +if you don't agree with the info from those links, it's fine i didn't write them anyways . glhf
Of course weapons were gifted to ISIS by parts of the former Iraqi army. Some of them even went over to ISIS or sold their comrades to them. Noone ever doubted that. The surrender and even collaboration of the Sunni parts of the Iraqi army (and Sunni tribes) when facing ISIS was how ISIS came about to controlling most of he Sunni areas of Iraq in the first place. But this does not mean Americans controlled them when they did, just like the Iraqi government did not control them. These guys had no loyalty to the US or the Iraqi government and chose ISIS over them.
You can say it is a blunder to not see the sectarian split in Iraq coming or to not actively do something about it. All of this is related to the general passivity of the US in the region since Obama and of course to the instability created by their Iraq invasion. But it is nonsense to claim that the US somehow wanted the growth of ISIS to fight Assad as you did.
If Assad was that important the US could just have supported the Syrian rebels much more instead or simply do airstrikes on Assad forces when they gave them the golden opportunity by using chemical weapons. Instead the US coalition carried out 16.000 airstrikes on ISIS by January and 44.000 sorties by August (numbers from wikipedia). A number of them also in Syria. Much more than the Russians will ever do.
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was in my links - the US needed Daesh/IS to occupy half the Syria and some 30% of Iraq. it's emphasized that they needed it in the fight against Assad.
now, how stupid do you believe americans were + Show Spoiler +in this situation of course
- when you see reports about Pentagon and how it foresaw the emergence of IS and then claim that they didn't have any knowledge about the sectarian hate/violence going on in Iraq, you're just being delusional.
- US has economic interests in the region; the airstrikes were for IS to understand what they were not allowed to conquer(some airstrikes were obviously real since they needed some to appear in the news). also, as far as airstrikes go, i chose to believe that kurdish commander who saidI don’t think all the airstrikes and attacks on ISIS in the past year and half have degraded any of the ISIS capacity. In fact, ISIS is getting stronger and has weapons that we don’t have.
Iraqi and coalition jets offered limited assistance. The Americans weren’t really that serious in hitting ISIS to help us.
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EPT
