EPTIraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 304
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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18240 Posts
On July 27 2015 20:51 lastpuritan wrote: Agreed. He is just a Putin wannabe old dude represents only %30 of Turks maximum. He will die sooner or later and turkish population becomes less religious over years. However Turkey has to solve Cyprus problem and should convince Germany and France. US and United Kingdom supports Turkish membership. Seeing as UK is about to have a referendum about leaving the EU, I don't think they really give a shit anymore about who else is in there. The US, obviously, has very little to say about who gets to join the EU. As for Erdogan dying; I expect him to pull a Mugabe and hang in there for at least another 10 years. With the Turkish population continuously voting him into power. | ||
KwarK
United States43729 Posts
Imagine that 40% of the Conservative party are Euroskeptic and that the Conservative party are 50% of the population of the UK. The pledge for a referendum on Europe is a sizable issue within the Conservative party that they can use to shore up their votes and to protect themselves from internal divisions but is a fringe issue nationally. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
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KwarK
United States43729 Posts
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/world/middleeast/turkey-and-us-agree-on-plan-to-clear-isis-from-strip-of-northern-syria.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0 ![[image loading]](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2015/07/27/turkey-map/2ecf62eebaeb41aab4b7f033ff7a24d6d81a623b/0727-for-web-TURKEYmap-300.png) | ||
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NasusAndDraven
359 Posts
But yeah its funny how good the deal is for all sides. Turkey gets to re secure their own border. America gets nice guidance for their missiles that they oh so love to use. FSA gets to send young men who have absolutely no idea how to fight in a war to die. (thats what they came to do right?) Seriously thou, there are like thousands of hours of footage in youtube of FSA fighters goofing around the battlefield. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On July 27 2015 04:48 Yoav wrote: 3. I'm an American who generally admires Islam and who doesn't give two shits about Germany's dominance over Europe. But yes, there are obviously racist or anti-Muslim Europeans who oppose Turkey for those reasons. That said, using this as an argument is dangerously close to ad hominem. I think you're just a sad loser or stupid. Germany has been one of the main forces in the European Union, and they really care to make it better. They prove it by actions as well. On the other hand, US only cares about itself, it spies everyone and it leads absolutely useless wars that actually backfire against US. The whole Middle East hates US. I'm not a fan of them but what US does is to add insult to injury when they should have been more passive. ISIS happened because of US's mistakes in Iraq, Libya, etc. US should fight ISIS now and stop wars for good. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
Well that's a good way to start a discussion. On July 28 2015 05:41 darkness wrote: Germany has been one of the main forces in the European Union, and they really care to make it better. They prove it by actions as well. On the other hand, US only cares about itself, it spies everyone and it leads absolutely useless wars that actually backfire against US. The whole Middle East hates US. I'm not a fan of them but what US does is to add insult to injury when they should have been more passive. ISIS happened because of US's mistakes in Iraq, Libya, etc. US should fight ISIS now and stop wars for good. Wait what? What does this have to do with anything. I like Germany a lot, if that matters, and their care for the rest of the EU is certain and well demonstrated. My point was that I can criticize Turkish policy on the Kurds without any ulterior motive of wanting my country to have the biggest dick in the EU. It was a defense of the German attitude if anything. I'm genuinely confused by what point you were trying to make. Also, yes, the US made major mistakes in the Middle East. Is that really a question for discussion? | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On July 27 2015 20:51 lastpuritan wrote: Agreed. He is just a Putin wannabe old dude represents only %30 of Turks maximum. He will die sooner or later and turkish population becomes less religious over years. However Turkey has to solve Cyprus problem and should convince Germany and France. US and United Kingdom supports Turkish membership. Well the US always will support any EU enlargment. And that has nothing to do with Turkey. It is mainly because it wants to see a less centralized, less effective EU. And I guess generally an expansion of the western zone of influence and economic zone. In the UK there are similar motives. But this is a useless discussion anyway, as there will be no Turkey in EU. Many in EU have realized that the latest enlargment round was already an overstretch and would like to take it back (which is impossible of course). There is very little political will for further enlargment. And of course Turkey looks less and less like it fits into EU with the shift towards less secularity, anti-Israeli and anti-Western rhetoric from its leaders and all the problems that exist for some time already (economy, human rights etc). | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
Edit: Also, lol @ US wanting a "less effective" EU. What? Why? US attitude is that the EU is a bunch of good guys who are ineffectual and slightly effete. Isn't a "less effective" EU the very last thing we want? It's not like they're a potential rival or anything. Anyway, this discussion is veering off topic. But I guess US-centered conspiracy is not off-topic in a Mideast conflict thread. | ||
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Eliezar
United States481 Posts
On July 28 2015 07:39 Yoav wrote: Well, there was a while where Turkey was treated as "model Muslim democracy" and got all sorts of perks thrown at it for that. US and UK support of EU membership are largely a relic thereof, and a bid for Turkey/Greece to get their shit sorted out. Edit: Also, lol @ US wanting a "less effective" EU. What? Why? US attitude is that the EU is a bunch of good guys who are ineffectual and slightly effete. Isn't a "less effective" EU the very last thing we want? It's not like they're a potential rival or anything. Anyway, this discussion is veering off topic. But I guess US-centered conspiracy is not off-topic in a Mideast conflict thread. The US is wary of China, Russia, and slightly a pan Islamic world problem. The US thinks that the EU will be their ally vs either Russia or China in trade or in conflict. Also...the policy of the US under Obama is completely different than it was under the Bushes or Clinton. And the policy of the next president will surely be different again. I think the US has a real problem trying to do anything about ISIS because if they did put boots on the ground ISIS would just go into hiding. If they bomb them they will never solve the problem without bombing neutral citizens into oblivion. I think this deal has more to do with the US and Turkey both getting things...and different things. All the while we displace one terrorist organization for another... | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On July 28 2015 05:41 darkness wrote: I think you're just a sad loser or stupid. Germany has been one of the main forces in the European Union, and they really care to make it better. They prove it by actions as well. On the other hand, US only cares about itself, it spies everyone and it leads absolutely useless wars that actually backfire against US. The whole Middle East hates US. I'm not a fan of them but what US does is to add insult to injury when they should have been more passive. ISIS happened because of US's mistakes in Iraq, Libya, etc. US should fight ISIS now and stop wars for good. I am not against the US taking sides, especially when genocide is involved, but whenever Western nations, the US or UK in particular get directly involved in these conflicts, it often becomes the greatest unifying force for many Islamist groups. Take the aftermath of the bombing campaign in Libya for example. | ||
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frontliner2
Netherlands844 Posts
THe bombings on ISIS (rare) are on abandoned compounds where AKP informed ISIS prior to stay away to distract the public opinion. Meanwhile the focus is 100 percent on killing the Kurds. I don't believe people actually support that Islamist dictator. | ||
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NasusAndDraven
359 Posts
On July 28 2015 23:26 frontliner2 wrote: It appears I was correct a few days back. THe bombing raids on IS were a smoke screen and Erdogan is pushing to ban Kurds in politics. THe bombings on ISIS (rare) are on abandoned compounds where AKP informed ISIS prior to stay away to distract the public opinion. Meanwhile the focus is 100 percent on killing the Kurds. I don't believe people actually support that Islamist dictator. Yes you are correct if you choose to ignore the truth and only absorb information you want to. For reference, check the news lastpuritan posted earlier on this page. | ||
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frontliner2
Netherlands844 Posts
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
On July 29 2015 01:39 frontliner2 wrote: Check the news today dude. Erdogan is a dictator and he wants to eradicate Kurds from politics so his AKP can rule with majority again. What happened, can you link it? | ||
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pretender58
Germany713 Posts
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NasusAndDraven
359 Posts
On July 29 2015 01:39 frontliner2 wrote: Check the news today dude. Erdogan is a dictator and he wants to eradicate Kurds from politics so his AKP can rule with majority again. You must be an expert in mental gymnastics if you believe Erdogan is a dictator. I mean really, in what sense he is? | ||
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frontliner2
Netherlands844 Posts
On July 29 2015 03:31 NasusAndDraven wrote: You must be an expert in mental gymnastics if you believe Erdogan is a dictator. I mean really, in what sense he is? Try being inside Turkey and openly critique his policies  | ||
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