"NATO starts a war in a country where the most people are happy about their lives and starts killing these people."
Is that why there is practically a civil war and NATO intervened because the Libyian military was turned on to their own people?
" You can find many other countries where people are in need for external help. It just does not want to share its resources with western world or radical Islam."
Now we can find other countries that do need help like some of the countries in Africa or even Iran(Iran would be a longer version of Iraq / Afgan, This is why we don't help over there) but how would those countries aid us if we don't need anything from them? If they want the NATO help they have to give something back in return. Libyan is a weak country this is why we are just helping the people. It's very simple. We don't help just anyone. Did anyone help American during our Civil War? No.
1. How do you know that Gaddafi bombed his citizens? Other sources than western media or Al Jazeera? - Claims from the citizens. Simple answer. Seen that
2. Who are the rebels, what do they want (do not suggest better education please in the country with the best educational system in Africa), who are their leader? What percentage of Libyan people do they represent? -Rebels are the people of Libyan. They want Gaddafi out of Power. Not sure on the leaders , probably so Gaddafi doesn't go after them and to get a Nnumber of the people is just obsurd.
3. Why Libyan army does not rise against Gaddafi, but fight against the "rebels"? - People in the army are treated better aka the Generals of that army and so on so if someone from that army rebels they will face death just like any other dicatorship. (If you had any idea of the structure of a military you would understand.)
4. Where are the protesting people, why they are not on the streets and squares like it was in Egypt? - Uhhh protesting in the streets like Egypt... I believe Egypt hasnt used the force like Libyan military has.
5. How do you distinguish propaganda from truth? - From the citizens of that country speaking out...
Your questions are simple yet your making a big deal out of this. Are you supporter of Gaddafi? If you are I would like to know whats going through that head of yours.
On March 29 2011 18:52 Dr.Kill-Joy wrote: Is that why there is practically a civil war and NATO intervened because the Libyian military was turned on to their own people?
What do you do with "your own people" who attack a military depot? Who armed them? What do they want?
On March 29 2011 18:52 Dr.Kill-Joy wrote: Libyan is a weak country this is why we are just helping the people. It's very simple. We don't help just anyone.
Who did ask you for help? What makes you think that a small group of armed men represents Libyan people??
Come on, just leave it there, Petruccio is either a troll or a nutjob.
Just one thing though, the wikipedia link you provided doesn't say much about Libyan education and the Libyan youth's perspectives. Apart from the fact that it's better than the rest of Africa, but guess what most of Africans intellectuals do? They study abroad. We have a huge numbers of students from Morocco here, for example.
What do you do with "your own people" who attack a military depot? Who armed them? What do they want?
Define your own people and how many people there are.
Who did ask you for help? What makes you think that a small group of armed men represents Libyan people??
Pretty sure if thousands of people are in an uproar about this dictator and they are being killed by their military and women are being raped and tied up by rope, put a bag over there head and taken away by some of gaddafi people on live tv i believe there is a problem. No democracy would ever do that.
Also i believe that there is protest in america right now in Wisconson, and in our own Military / Government workers who are looking at being let go, realsed and will have to work for free. Im pretty sure you havent heard any of those news about America have you. Because your so closed minded.
Saddam cut little babies out of women's womb in 1990, USA had to go stop him and take some of his oil along the way. Then Saddam was hiding WMDs all over his country, planning to supply Al-Qaida with them, and the USA had to go stop him, this time taking the rest of his oil. And now, Ghaddafi massacring his own people.
No pictures, no proof whatsoever, but this time around we sure believe what the USA/GB/France wants us to believe. It's not like we've been learning anything from history, right guys? I mean, we are the good guys, so everything we do is automatically noble and good, right? HAS TO BE SO, RIGHT?
I pity the fools who still stomach the crap western media and their corrupt governments feed them.
On March 29 2011 18:33 DeepElemBlues wrote: Nice mdb, defending a police state because they have a "high standard of living." Compared to where? Other police states?
To Petruccio:
Accusing people of being fed misinformation by "Western sources" almost 100% of the time amounts to shilling for "alternative" sources that basically produce propaganda for whichever tyrant is causing a mess this week that we have to deal with.
No, we don't have to "read and switch on our brains," or pay much attention to the rest of your post, which basically insults us repeatedly as ignorant, easily fooled, and just plain stupid ("lost ability to think and analyze," etc.). Petruccio, you are a classic tool.
I`ve said maybe 10 times in this thread, that I`ve been in Libya. I`ve been in Bengazi and Adjadabia mostly, but I`ve spent some time in Tripoli too. For the 5-6 months I`ve been there and Libya is not police state lol. Just a normal country.
And the people in Libya had different opinion about Kadafi. Some liked him very much, some didnt care, some hated him. Just like any goverment in the world.
Who can I trust? My own experience or what western media says? What is your opinion about that?
Uhhhh a Libyran women came crying to the media at a hotel all on live tv. She said she was raped 15 times tied up. When she made the claims the Libyran Government came and took her away never to see her again.
Listen i don't watch bad american news either aka Foxs news. That stuff is shit. But the reporters out there in the field with the people of Libyran, how is that bias? Explained to me how we can get anything bias from what we see through those cameras and what the people of Libyran are saying to those reporters? Are you dillusional or are you one of those extremes that is against the Western Nations?
Its ok if you are against the West, I know its sad not to be apart of that, and you probably have a vendetta like thousands of others against the west and thats ok. Because Democracy and what we fought for makes it ok for freedom of speech. Again back to the point of the women, she doesnt have freedom of speech, note she was taken away because there is no freedom over there and thats what the rebels want, Freedom. Same as Egypt same as Iran same as it is everywhere else ran by a dictator.
I'm not sure how you can get anything possitive from no freedom that is run by 1 person with an iron fist.
Edit: Again let me remind you of freedom because im not sure what country you are from but clearly it can't be one ran by freedom. This website, an american website lets you have your freedom of words. Notice you havent been banned or warned for any of the ridculous shit you have said.
On March 29 2011 19:18 mdb wrote: I`ve said maybe 10 times in this thread, that I`ve been in Libya. I`ve been in Bengazi and Adjadabia mostly, but I`ve spent some time in Tripoli too. For the 5-6 months I`ve been there and Libya is not police state lol. Just a normal country.
If you go to some place, you'll be with some people, it's as simple as that...
On March 29 2011 19:18 mdb wrote: I`ve said maybe 10 times in this thread, that I`ve been in Libya. I`ve been in Bengazi and Adjadabia mostly, but I`ve spent some time in Tripoli too. For the 5-6 months I`ve been there and Libya is not police state lol. Just a normal country.
If you go to some place, you'll be with some people, it's as simple as that...
Open letter of Russian doctors in Libya http://mathaba.net/news/?x=626283 THIS is the voice of people, not what you can see in western media. It is not propaganda, they are real, they live in Libya for years and know the country. The Libyan people want they normal life back! They do not ask for the bombs! They are generally happy with "the dictator" and "regime". Leave them alone!
Mmmm I didn't have to read all of that. Instead I scrolled to the bottem to see who wrote it and what people where apart of that letter.
"Citizens of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia, Located in Libyan. "
Now let me see if i can break this down for you. People from another country going into someone elses country. They haven't been there their entire life. They are there for money. The government of Libyan is giving these people money the doctors , dentist ect to provide the citizen with Medicare. Now the people that are there for the money and money only wants this to stop because they are not making any money because the money is going to fight this skrimish.
Please find me someone from the people of Libyan and not from the people from some other country.
Edit:
•Libya Peace Movement (Tried to find something on this, I couldn't) •Green Charter International •National Liberal Party (UK) •World Centre for the Studies and Researches on The Green Book •Solidarity Trade Union (UK) •ThePressPhoto, New York, USA
Also others supposively endorse that letter. Not sure if the letter is even real or holds any power.
On March 29 2011 19:52 Petruccio wrote: Open letter of Russian doctors in Libya http://mathaba.net/news/?x=626283 THIS is the voice of people, not what you can see in western media. It is not propaganda, they are real, they live in Libya for years and know the country. The Libyan people want they normal life back! They do not ask for the bombs! They are generally happy with "the dictator" and "regime". Leave them alone!
On March 29 2011 19:59 Dr.Kill-Joy wrote: Mmmm I didn't have to read all of that. Instead I scrolled to the bottem to see who wrote it and what people where apart of that letter.
You'd better read the letter. They are asking Russia for veto on NATO invasion. They are there for money and better life for sure, but they know the internal situation much better then you or me. I do not know, so I just trying to find what Libyan people really wants. I suppose these people know. How can I find out what Libyans wants? Do not suggest BBC or CNN o similar please. They are already took side, they have their goals, they are not objective.
Another important thing: russian medias. I mean, russian medias, lol.
The ones who showed Putin killing a tiger, being a badass judoka and a all-around perfect human being. The ones filled with propaganda because the country is in an incredible mess since the fall of the Soviet Union.
To MDB: I just mean that when you go to someplace, you don't meet "the people", but a certain group. And a foreigner is likely to meet only the higher classes, or people turned towards the west. To give an example: I was born in Chile and left when I was a kid. In France, I became friends with a guy who has Chilean parents and has lived in Chile every now and then, for a few months tops each time. He considers himself Chilean. Now he told people that Chile is a really laid-back wealthy place, with nice people, everything clean, etc. But that's because he's from a different backround. I look at his facebook pictures and think to myself, shees, no wonder he thinks our homeland is a pure heaven. I on the other end come from the shitty neighbourghoods, unsafe at night, filled with thugs and drug abuse, where people can stab you over a simple bike. When I still wasn't born, a guy crawled to our door to ask for help after being gutted during a gang fight. His intestines were apparently leaving his body. My mother cannot stand any form of violence because of this period of her life (she becomes batshit insane when people threaten each other).
He grew up with nice dinners and family meetings around enclosed villas, I grew up outside those fences, wondering what was in there.
Yes the people of russia is asking Russia to veto it. Not the people of Libryan. You need to read the names and look up those names on that letter. Youtube is a good source to see hard evidence of rallies and rebels asking what they want. Real reporters on the lines of Librya with the people.
Not some letter written by people from some other country wanting them to veto, so they can get their jobs back so Gaddfai can start paying them nicely for their aid.
THE LETTER ISNT FROM THE PEOPLE OF LIBYRA IT FROM THE RUSSIANS. AND YOUR LISTENING TO THE RUSSIAN MEDIA?
Also, how long has those russians who wrote that letter been in that country? Have you tried to weigh the possiblities of why they would have written that letter or are you just so blind by you own opinion that you just don't really care and you rather look like a retard?
EPT
