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NASA and the Private Sector - Page 124

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Keep debates civil.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 03 2017 21:23 GMT
#2461
And Solar Panels deployed.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
xtorn
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
4060 Posts
June 03 2017 21:26 GMT
#2462
the landing at LZ was the most beautiful thing i ever saw. Thank god these people are doing great things.
Life - forever the Legend in my heart
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 03 2017 21:29 GMT
#2463


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 04 2017 17:41 GMT
#2464




"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 04 2017 18:01 GMT
#2465
For reference, SpaceX launched a reused Dragon capsule here.

The boring, yet most important, factor here is of course the economics of whether reuse actually helps drive down costs. We shall see since we don't have straight numbers or a real record to base it off of.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 05 2017 16:25 GMT
#2466




The inflatable habitat that was attached to the International Space Station last year has shown that it can protect astronauts from micrometeoroids and bits of space debris. Now, NASA will test whether the structure can also shield astronauts from space radiation during future missions to deep space.

Built by Bigelow Aerospace as part of a mission partnership with NASA, the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module (BEAM) is the first privately built expandable room that has launched to the space station. Throughout BEAM's first year in space, researchers at NASA's Langley Research Center and astronauts on board the space station have studied the module's ability to withstand space debris, according to a statement from the agency.

Sensors inside BEAM are designed to detect and locate external impacts made by bits of space debris. Data from these sensors showed that the soft, inflatable structure performed as expected in resisting debris strikes, according to the statement. Astronauts have been entering the habitat to take data, but they have not been occupying it continuously.

BEAM is built out of a soft, expandable material similar to the synthetic fiber Vectran, which is used to make things such as rope and is used in some spacesuits. Expandable habitats like BEAM are less cumbersome to pack into a rocket fairing. Solid habitats built on Earth can be only as big as the rocket fairing they will travel in, but inflatable habitats make it possible to send habitats to space with a larger total volume than the payload fairing. Inflatable habitats could therefore play an important role in setting up lunar bases or Mars expeditions, according to NASA.

"The BEAM technology demonstration is helping NASA to advance and learn about expandable space habitat technology in low-Earth orbit for application toward future human exploration missions" and the development of deep-space habitats, NASA officials said in the statement.

Though NASA researchers and astronauts will continue to monitor BEAM for debris impacts, their focus is now shifting toward understanding how the module stands up to radiation. That's because astronauts on future deep-space missions will be exposed to greater amounts of radiation than the space station, which is still somewhat protected by Earth's magnetic field, according to the statement.

Two active Radiation Environment Monitors (REMs) inside the BEAM habitat measure radiation levels in real time. REM data has shown that doses of galactic cosmic radiation inside BEAM are comparable to those inside other areas of the space station.

In addition, astronauts aboard the space station used the onboard 3D printer to make a radiation shield. Then, they used that shield to cover one of the REMs inside the BEAM to find out how well the space-made shield blocked radiation compared with the unshielded sensor. Two successively thicker shields measuring 0.13 inches and 0.4 inches (3.3 and 10 millimeters), respectively, will be printed and used to cover the sensor over the next few months. The goal of this test is to "determine the shielding effectiveness at blocking radiation," according to the statement from NASA.

The astronauts aboard the space station are conducting additional tests to determine the safety and reliability of BEAM. The results of the BEAM project will ultimately help NASA move toward its goal to send humans on extended missions to the moon, and deep-space destinations such as Mars.

BEAM was attached to the space station on April 16, 2016. After a false start, the module was fully inflated on May 28 of that year. Once the two-year demonstration ends, the module will be jettisoned from the space station to burn up during its descent through Earth's atmosphere.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 05 2017 16:31 GMT
#2467
What are the current Crew Dragon and Starliner official dates? I see some very conflicting estimates. Are they still officially May and October 2018?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2674 Posts
June 05 2017 18:09 GMT
#2468
I love how wi-fi is a selling point for the Starliner. Probably for practical reasons but its still funny.
waaaaaaaaaaaooooow - Felicia, SPF2:T
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 05 2017 18:11 GMT
#2469
Hey, I've seen weirder. Like a CD player being a major feature on a military jet.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 10:18:42
June 06 2017 10:17 GMT
#2470
On June 06 2017 01:31 LegalLord wrote:
What are the current Crew Dragon and Starliner official dates? I see some very conflicting estimates. Are they still officially May and October 2018?


There are no official dates. The current projections are this November for SpaceX and June 2018 for Boeing for the uncrewed flight test. For the crewed test, it's May 2018 for SpaceX and August 2018 for Boeing. These should be treated as best case scenarios, not expected launch dates.

"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 06 2017 11:25 GMT
#2471
Those dates are obviously wildly optimistic, but I'm more interested in seeing how long it will take both teams to admit it.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
June 06 2017 11:33 GMT
#2472
There's nothing to admit because they are not set dates. They are best case scenarios. Everyone understands them as such.

They get updated every quarter so probably around late this month.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11964 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 14:01:57
June 06 2017 14:01 GMT
#2473
On June 06 2017 20:33 hypercube wrote:
There's nothing to admit because they are not set dates. They are best case scenarios. Everyone understands them as such.

They get updated every quarter so probably around late this month.


Best case scenarios is a very strange way to schedule projects. You usually schedule them for when they can be realistically done (including extra time for minor setbacks) or have to be done due to some other deadline (such as Russian rockets not being available [which they still will be]).
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 14:11:39
June 06 2017 14:10 GMT
#2474
NASA is already having to go through weird hoops to get further Soyuz seats, like their odd arrangement with Boeing this year. But despite certain qualms I have with the organization, there is no way they could not have predicted that setbacks are almost a given for projects this ambitious. I think their scheduling is partially political in that the optics of using Russian rockets is undesirable and legislators want to stop that. Which they should, but that only happens with sufficient funding and patience.

To be fair though, the dates are in fact listed as "no earlier than" dates. Hence, best case scenario.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
June 06 2017 17:26 GMT
#2475
On June 06 2017 23:10 LegalLord wrote:
NASA is already having to go through weird hoops to get further Soyuz seats, like their odd arrangement with Boeing this year.


Well Boeing won a few seats on the lottery (sorry, their Sea Launch settlement with Energia), so they might as well use it. NASA could have bought the seats from Roskosmos if they needed to and might still do in the future.

But despite certain qualms I have with the organization, there is no way they could not have predicted that setbacks are almost a given for projects this ambitious. [...] Which they should, but that only happens with sufficient funding and patience.


No argument here. For comparison Orion was announced in 2004 and won't carry crew until 2021 (probably 2023). Federatsiya has been in development since 2014 and its first flight is planned for 2022. 2-3 years to develop an orbital crew vehicle was obviously unrealistic.

I think an optimistic schedule was required to justify retiring the Shuttle. If NASA admitted that there would be a 6-8 year hiatus in US manned spaceflight, then the Shuttle would not have been retired. However, without the retirement of the Shuttle there would have been no money to fund the development of these new spacecraft.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 06 2017 17:29 GMT
#2476
Boeing got their settlement seats, true - but that makes things easier for NASA in an important way: they have to justify to Congress buying from American Boeing rather than Russian Roscosmos. Much less legislative bitching.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 06 2017 17:36 GMT
#2477
Dumb A's....

Checking my messages on Wednesday at LAX after a long flight from back east, I was startled to learn that Paul Allen’s ginormous Stratolaunch aircraft had been rolled out of its hangar for the first time in Mojave while I was in transit.

I had been expecting some official roll-out ceremony later this year ala SpaceShipTwo where the press and public could get a good look at the twin fuselage, WhiteKnightTwo-on-steroids air-launch platform.

But, for better or worse, Paul Allen is not Richard Branson, and Scaled Composites — which built the aircraft — is most assuredly not Virgin Galactic. So, the press would have to settle for a quiet roll out and some photos and videos provided by the company.

What they show is stunning enough. At 238 feet long, 50 feet high and spanning 385 feet from wing tip to wing tip, the Stratolaunch carrier plane is an absolute monster that makes everything around it — people, vehicles, ground equipment — l0ok tiny by comparison. It’s going to be spectacular — and undoubtedly nerve wracking — sight when that beast roars down Runway 30 powered by six Boeing 747 engines and lifts off into the Mojave sky for the first time.

But, amid all the oohs and ahhs and congratulations, it’s hard to ignore some of the dark clouds that have gathered over the program in the 5.5 years since Allen and Burt Rutan — the team behind the wildly successful SpaceShipOne — unveiled Stratolaunch to the world back in December 2011.

As the plane grew inside its hangar from CAD drawings and artist’s conceptions to the humongous vehicle that was rolled out on Wednesday, its reason to exist appears to have shrunk from “yeah OK, I can kind of see that” to “wait…what?”

More specifically, its niche in an increasingly crowded launch marketplace is unclear. For a project that’s consuming hundreds of millions of dollars, that’s not good. Not good at all.

To understand the problem, it’s necessary to look at the long, winding road between the initial announcement and the roll out on Wednesday. That road contained a number of what are called pivots in Silicon Valley.

The original plan was for the giant aircraft to launch a medium-lift booster. The ability to place a largish satellite into any orbit would be attractive to a number of commercial and government customers, the argument went. It was a unique service no one else was offering in that payload class.

But there were doubters. Some argued the rocket didn’t make sense commercially; its payload capabilities were not unique enough. There had to be more to it than what Rutan and Allen were saying.

Speculation in Mojave focused on the U.S. military as a primary customer for the “any orbit, any time” service Stratolaunch could provide. There was even speculation the military might be a secret backer of the project through one of its black programs.

The term “Glomar Explorer” — the name of the Howard Hughes ship nominally built to mine manganese nodules from the sea floor that secretly recovered a sunken Soviet nuclear submarine for the CIA — was frequently bandied about. Not everyone bought that argument, but there was some logic to it.

Stratolaunch’s massive size sparked unflattering comparisons to Hughes’ ill-fated Spruce Goose — the colossal World War II-era troop carrier that flew one time before ending up as a museum piece. Rutan’s giant was quickly dubbed “Carbon Goose,” “Composite Goose” and (for no discernible reason at all) “Birdzilla.”

Rutan stressed the civilian uses for the booster, talking about sending up payloads created at home by unskilled workers (i.e., people) into orbit. A study was conducted that examined the feasibility of launching a scaled-down version of Sierra Nevada’s Dream Chaser shuttle.

Whatever the actual market for Stratolaunch, a massive hangar and a manufacturing building were constructed at the end of Ricommini Street a short distance from the end of Runway 30. A small army of workers began building the world’s largest airplane.

But, a funny thing happened on the way to orbit. They found they couldn’t actually get there. At least not the way they planned to. And so the pivoting began.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 06 2017 18:03 GMT
#2478
Yeah, it feels kind of mean to say it, but that project looks remarkably ill-fated.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1372 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-07 00:14:54
June 07 2017 00:14 GMT
#2479
On June 07 2017 02:36 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Dumb A's....

Show nested quote +
Checking my messages on Wednesday at LAX after a long flight from back east, I was startled to learn that Paul Allen’s ginormous Stratolaunch aircraft had been rolled out of its hangar for the first time in Mojave while I was in transit.

I had been expecting some official roll-out ceremony later this year ala SpaceShipTwo where the press and public could get a good look at the twin fuselage, WhiteKnightTwo-on-steroids air-launch platform.

But, for better or worse, Paul Allen is not Richard Branson, and Scaled Composites — which built the aircraft — is most assuredly not Virgin Galactic. So, the press would have to settle for a quiet roll out and some photos and videos provided by the company.

What they show is stunning enough. At 238 feet long, 50 feet high and spanning 385 feet from wing tip to wing tip, the Stratolaunch carrier plane is an absolute monster that makes everything around it — people, vehicles, ground equipment — l0ok tiny by comparison. It’s going to be spectacular — and undoubtedly nerve wracking — sight when that beast roars down Runway 30 powered by six Boeing 747 engines and lifts off into the Mojave sky for the first time.

But, amid all the oohs and ahhs and congratulations, it’s hard to ignore some of the dark clouds that have gathered over the program in the 5.5 years since Allen and Burt Rutan — the team behind the wildly successful SpaceShipOne — unveiled Stratolaunch to the world back in December 2011.

As the plane grew inside its hangar from CAD drawings and artist’s conceptions to the humongous vehicle that was rolled out on Wednesday, its reason to exist appears to have shrunk from “yeah OK, I can kind of see that” to “wait…what?”

More specifically, its niche in an increasingly crowded launch marketplace is unclear. For a project that’s consuming hundreds of millions of dollars, that’s not good. Not good at all.

To understand the problem, it’s necessary to look at the long, winding road between the initial announcement and the roll out on Wednesday. That road contained a number of what are called pivots in Silicon Valley.

The original plan was for the giant aircraft to launch a medium-lift booster. The ability to place a largish satellite into any orbit would be attractive to a number of commercial and government customers, the argument went. It was a unique service no one else was offering in that payload class.

But there were doubters. Some argued the rocket didn’t make sense commercially; its payload capabilities were not unique enough. There had to be more to it than what Rutan and Allen were saying.

Speculation in Mojave focused on the U.S. military as a primary customer for the “any orbit, any time” service Stratolaunch could provide. There was even speculation the military might be a secret backer of the project through one of its black programs.

The term “Glomar Explorer” — the name of the Howard Hughes ship nominally built to mine manganese nodules from the sea floor that secretly recovered a sunken Soviet nuclear submarine for the CIA — was frequently bandied about. Not everyone bought that argument, but there was some logic to it.

Stratolaunch’s massive size sparked unflattering comparisons to Hughes’ ill-fated Spruce Goose — the colossal World War II-era troop carrier that flew one time before ending up as a museum piece. Rutan’s giant was quickly dubbed “Carbon Goose,” “Composite Goose” and (for no discernible reason at all) “Birdzilla.”

Rutan stressed the civilian uses for the booster, talking about sending up payloads created at home by unskilled workers (i.e., people) into orbit. A study was conducted that examined the feasibility of launching a scaled-down version of Sierra Nevada’s Dream Chaser shuttle.

Whatever the actual market for Stratolaunch, a massive hangar and a manufacturing building were constructed at the end of Ricommini Street a short distance from the end of Runway 30. A small army of workers began building the world’s largest airplane.

But, a funny thing happened on the way to orbit. They found they couldn’t actually get there. At least not the way they planned to. And so the pivoting began.


Source



That's the complete opposite of what I did think when I saw this vehicle for the first time. This to me still looks like the most reasonable and most promising project that I have seen from private enterprises. I guess we will have to wait and see how it will play out but this is where I would put my money on.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
June 07 2017 00:50 GMT
#2480
Why do you say that? Personally I see the opposite here...
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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