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Why is there even a debate on this? Silly drawings of religious figures may be in poor taste, but it shouldn't be against the law. Ridicule of religion is good - good for secular society since it reveals the flaws in religious doctrine, good for religious people since it helps religion to evolve with the times. You have the right to believe in whatever you want, you do not have the right to not be offended.
On December 13 2010 20:36 Kimaker wrote:
There are rational reasons to believe in a God. And if nothing else, Pascal's Wager is a pretty good argument. Though I suppose "argument" is the wrong word there...
Pascal's Wager is an awful argument. In fact, it's not even an argument. See:
+ Show Spoiler +
The concept of a god that is beyond empiricism is cool and all, but such a belief serves no practical relevance and is by nature beyond evidence, so really you're only choosing to have such a belief for some kind of spiritual comfort. And while that concept may very well be rational, anything past that, meaning basically all religious doctrine, isn't. IE "I believe in a God" is fine, but "I believe in a God that cares about human behavior or diet or appearance" is intellectual dishonesty at best, ridiculous, cult-like behavior at worst.
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I believe there are good reasons to believe in existence of God. Arguments for this is beyond the scope of this forum and off-topic. However, beliefs, whether they are religious or not, can be scrutinized and allowed to. If we make laws prohibiting scrutinizing religious figures ( Muhammad) because a group of people find it offensive, that same then can be applied to any groups (atheists, christians, vegans, republicans). I am a Christian and although I find it distasteful when people poke fun at Jesus or the Pope, other times I find it hilarious too. My belief will not changed or affected in anyway just because someone draw a cartoon about my religion...
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On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech.
There are a lot of things that are "wrong" that aren't illegal and shouldn't be. For example, if you're in a parking lot waiting for a car to back out so you can take the spot and then I zip in and take it before you, that's "wrong" but it's not illegal, nor should I be killed for it. Or if I want to say "people who listen to rap are all retarded" it would be "wrong" and insulting, but it's not illegal, nor should it be.
Making a cartoon that offends an entire group of people may be "wrong", but what's far more "wrong" is that some people feel it is their right to dictate what other people think or say, and even to kill to enforce that.
I don't believe in your god, it's that simple. Your quote from the Quran sums it up quite nicely in my view: keep your religion to yourself, and don't tell me what to do. If your religion says you can't draw pictures of Muhammad, then don't draw pictures of Muhammad, but if you try and tell me I also can't draw pictures of Muhammad either, well then it's not really keeping your religion to yourself anymore is it? It's now your religion telling me what to do. If that's what you really want to do, then be prepared for a war, because I'll fight to the death to be free from your religion imposing its restrictions on me, whatever they might be.
IMO what we need is more people making cartoons of Muhammad to show the Islamic people of the world that just because you want something doesn't mean you can have it. And if it takes a war to prove that, to defend our right to think and say what we want, then so be it.
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I agree that free speech shouldn't be limited, if a particular belief can't handle free speech in that country it's too bad.
Though what I've never understood is how are you supposed to know if something is a depication of Muhammad? This was kind of brought up on "Draw Muhammad Day" in that anything could be Muhammad like a toaster as long as you labeled it as "Muhammad" it is now Muhammad. Seriously trying to draw Muhammad would just end up with a generic middle eastern man wouldn't it? Are there actual defining characteristics for his physical appearance?
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No, of course not. Muhammed should be spray painted everywhere honestly, they need to chill the hell out.
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I dislike the modern day interpretation of "freedom of speech". In fact, I dislike the modern day interpretation of freedom in general.
It seems that more and more people, especially the more recent generations, seem to take it for granted and consider it a licence to do pretty much whatever they want as long as they can get away with it. Incidentally, these are the generations that have (in most western countries) never had to deal with a real, substantial lack of freedom.
Freedom is only a beneficial social concept while it is balanced out by the (assumed) willingness of every individual to contribute to the society he/she lives in and improve it for everybody that is a part of that society. In order for freedom to work out as a general concept, the society relies on you being a nice guy. The less sense people have of that, the more freedom is exploited rather than appreciated and respected for what it is.
So in regards to OP, no, the government shouldn't prohibit the comics. But also the comics shouldn't ever have been made in the first place. The people who made them originally should've decided to be nice guys instead and realized that just shitting over something somebody cares about doesn't prove any higher point, isn't some glorious rebellious work of art, isn't contributing to the society, and most definitely doesn't illustrate what freedom should be about.
To be quite honest, if people don't have a sense of what they should and shouldn't do, no laws can forcefully regulate it.
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There is absolutely no reason anyone should ever be prohibited from doing anything they like.
As a christian I get "bothered" by images defaming Jesus, but it doesn't offend me. Why? Because God is God and he is able to defend Himself. The role of a Christian isn't to "Protect" Jesus's name or image. It's to spread the message of the gospel of Christ.
Christians however, should not do the defaming of others religion either. There is a passage very relevant in the new testament. They were asking Paul if they should still be following the jewish rules dealing with things like food, etc. However, they failed to realize that Christ represented a new contract with man which is freedom. The passage goes on to say that everything is permissible. (meaning everything), however not everything is beneficial. This is basically a new set of ethics for christians. Christians are not bound by the law espoused in leviticus or exodus, however, they are bound to the commitment they made to God. The example Paul used is eating foods that had been sacrificed to idols. Previously doing so would be a huge penalty according to the old law, however, it is no longer sin with Christ. But Paul says that if you are in the company of those who are not Christians and they see you eating the food sacrificed to idols, it will be like you sinned to them as they will see you as an example. In a similar way, although drawing pictures of mohammed might not be a sin, it is a sin if you offend or hurt someone else's views. It is impossible to be completely devoid of offending people, but the goal again isn't to be perfect.
Islam on the other hand is a very militaristic religion. They must defend God in every aspect and all attacks on God should be punished. This in effect is saying that either 1. God cannot defend Himself. or 2. The muslim religion is very agressive and hostile.
You pee on a statue of Jesus. Christians pray for you. You draw a picture of Mohammed. Muslims try to kill you.
As far as law goes, the best approach to government is to pretend that religions don't exist. Governments shouldn't tolerate anything that is specifically pro-religious or anti-religious as far as anything they are involved in. As for private citizens, they can say whatever the heck they want. Freedom of speech is very important.
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GOGOG KILL THEM !! world will be better
User was banned for this post.
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Russian Federation798 Posts
Just don't go looking for trouble, look at what people are ready to do because there religion got insulted. This really does not help the views of westerners towards Muslims if things like this keep on happening.
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On December 14 2010 04:35 AureS wrote:
GOGOG KILL THEM !! world will be better
Kill who? Swedes? Muslims?
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Why they think they need special treatment is beyond me. If any deeply religious person gets offended at such a portrayal or a relevant figure I question their beliefs. They must not be very confident in said beliefs if a stupid ass cartoon offends them that much. And come to think of it I don't think it offends them anyways. Just another scapegoat for them to justify their stupid actions.
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On December 14 2010 04:45 HellRoxYa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 04:35 AureS wrote:
GOGOG KILL THEM !! world will be better Kill who? Swedes? Muslims?
Try ask this question again. Theres also Swede muslims.
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On December 14 2010 06:06 Nuri wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 04:45 HellRoxYa wrote:On December 14 2010 04:35 AureS wrote:
GOGOG KILL THEM !! world will be better Kill who? Swedes? Muslims? Try ask this question again. Theres also Swede muslims.
Maybe he meant both?
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Short answer to topic: NO.
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On December 14 2010 06:09 furymonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 06:06 Nuri wrote:On December 14 2010 04:45 HellRoxYa wrote:On December 14 2010 04:35 AureS wrote:
GOGOG KILL THEM !! world will be better Kill who? Swedes? Muslims? Try ask this question again. Theres also Swede muslims. Maybe he meant both?
Learn grammar please.
User was warned for this and other low-quality posts
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The thing that cracks me up is that people leave everything else in the world to make fun of and just concentrate on making fun of other people's prophets xD. Seriously guys, there are lots of other stuff you can go make fun of these days, go crazy! But in the ideal world, I wouldn't want people to make fun of figures that are really important to a group of people. I mean in all honesty, Prophet Mohammed was a great PERSON. If you don't recognize him as a prophet, then at least respect his personality which was even respected by the people who opposed him at his time. I don't enjoy people making fun of these great people that tried to send a pure message like Jesus, Mohammed and Moses (The three biggest religions). Just because of how much good they contributed to the world. Just like I would not like people making fun of other great figures such as Ghandi. Well sure people joke about things all the time. What I am saying is using and depicting these people in very offensive way is not the right thing to do. If you are a sensible person at least. If only we respected everyone equally we wouldn't have been in this mess of a world we are in right now. But oh well, its too fun to give up right? *sigh*
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Btw its not even about drawing Prophet Mohammed anymore now. Its all about, " Hey you , you dont like what I am drawing huh, and you are telling to stop? HA FUCK U!" People are just firing this up for the sake of firing this up. I bet if no one cared about the painting, that guy would have probably forgot about it and the whole world too. But the response that came back from everyone was honestly retarded. "Oh he made a picture of the prophet in a bad way huh, FUCK U, I BOMB U". If Prophet Mohammed was alive and this happened, he would have dealt with this in more calm and relaxing manner. He is not going to come to you and and start hitting you, no he wont.
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On December 13 2010 18:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Of course we shouldnt, if we do Im giving up on this world.
User was warned for this post
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On December 14 2010 06:24 DragoonPK wrote:
Btw its not even about drawing Prophet Mohammed anymore now. Its all about, " Hey you , you dont like what I am drawing huh, and you are telling to stop? HA FUCK U!" People are just firing this up for the sake of firing this up. I bet if no one cared about the painting, that guy would have probably forgot about it and the whole world too. But the response that came back from everyone was honestly retarded. "Oh he made a picture of the prophet in a bad way huh, FUCK U, I BOMB U". If Prophet Mohammed was alive and this happened, he would have dealt with this in more calm and relaxing manner. He is not going to come to you and and start hitting you, no he wont.
He was also a military leader/judge... he might not have started hitting someone if it would just make them mad, but he might have hit them/or instructed them to be hit in certain circumstances.
(as would Moses... Jesus probably wouldn't, his mission wasn't governmental, but there was the incident at the temple)
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On December 14 2010 06:16 Nuri wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 06:09 furymonkey wrote:On December 14 2010 06:06 Nuri wrote:On December 14 2010 04:45 HellRoxYa wrote:On December 14 2010 04:35 AureS wrote:
GOGOG KILL THEM !! world will be better Kill who? Swedes? Muslims? Try ask this question again. Theres also Swede muslims. Maybe he meant both? Learn grammar please.
I'm sorry, yours ain't perfect either.
On topic: I think Sweden just want an easy way out, they know the uproar won't be as huge.
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