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On November 25 2010 13:23 Duban wrote:Show nested quote +You're saying this because you don't live here. The issue isn't that the guns can hit our capital, it's that ONE BOMB will kill about 5 million people. One bomb isn't going to kill 5 million people. If you're talking about the nuclear arsenal you're poorly informed. N Korea's bombs are very small in yield, at most the size of the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombs, probably less. It wouldn't be pretty but we aren't talking about a modern multi-megaton thermonuclear device. Also, more importantly N Korea has no platform with which to deploy their nuclear weapons. Their nuclear bombs are huge while their missile and bomber cargo sizes are small. The best they could do would be drive a truck in and hope nobody asks questions about the large radioactive device crossing the border. Not likely. N Korea has nukes only in the technical sense. It'll be another decade or more before they can realistically use them. It isn't very hard for them to clusterbomb us with chemical weapons from a conventional jet and all they have to do is get one or two off in Seoul which is right fucking next to the DMZ. If you're trying to convince me that there's no reason to fear for people's lives in Seoul I consider you the uninformed one.
There are 10 million people in Seoul, it's not a stretch to think 5 million people could die if they hit it hard.
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On November 25 2010 13:24 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 13:19 ImFromPortugal wrote: UPDATE (TWITTER):
"Japanese Prime Min. Kan describes Korean peninsula as "on the brink" of war, adds Pyongyang needs to be severely reprimanded"
"Yonhap: China Foreign Min. Yang cancels planned visit tomorrow to Seoul." Link?
Twitter link
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On November 25 2010 13:34 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 13:24 Deadlyhazard wrote:On November 25 2010 13:19 ImFromPortugal wrote: UPDATE (TWITTER):
"Japanese Prime Min. Kan describes Korean peninsula as "on the brink" of war, adds Pyongyang needs to be severely reprimanded"
"Yonhap: China Foreign Min. Yang cancels planned visit tomorrow to Seoul." Link? Twitter link Thanks
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It isn't very hard for them to clusterbomb us with chemical weapons from a conventional jet and all they have to do is get one or two off in Seoul which is right fucking next to the DMZ. If you're trying to convince me that there's no reason to fear for people's lives in Seoul I consider you the uninformed one.
There are 10 million people in Seoul, it's not a stretch to think 5 million people could die if they hit it hard. I never said that there wouldn't be massive casualties. Throughout this entire thread I've stated, repeatedly, that an artillery bombardment would be bad. The person that I was quoting stated that "ONE BOMB" would kill 5 million people. I assumed he meant nukes while, for the time being, the nukes pose little threat to civilian lives.
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On November 25 2010 13:03 ImFromPortugal wrote: North Korea isnt trying to invade the South, they responded against the drills South Korea was doing , and they warned they wouldnt admit such activities.
"The skirmish began after North Korea warned the South to stop carrying out military drills near their sea border, South Korean officials said.
When Seoul refused and fired artillery into disputed waters - away from the North Korean shore - the North retaliated by shelling Yeonpyeong."
Agreed. The South Korean military, if sources are correct, provoked a response by firing into disputed waters.
Source It's in Chinese, for what it's worth.
This means that China and Russia will most likely back North Korea. Unless the US wants World War III on their hands, they better defuse this situation.
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I wonder if this will end with a massive covert overnight assault on the capital staged by the UN. A coup to take out a terrifying regime.
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On November 25 2010 13:38 n00bination wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 13:03 ImFromPortugal wrote: North Korea isnt trying to invade the South, they responded against the drills South Korea was doing , and they warned they wouldnt admit such activities.
"The skirmish began after North Korea warned the South to stop carrying out military drills near their sea border, South Korean officials said.
When Seoul refused and fired artillery into disputed waters - away from the North Korean shore - the North retaliated by shelling Yeonpyeong."
Agreed. The South Korean military, if sources are correct, provoked a response by firing into disputed waters. SourceIt's in Chinese, for what it's worth. This means that China and Russia will most likely back North Korea. Unless the US wants World War III on their hands, they better defuse this situation. I doubt China would back NK. They know it would cause a global war...and that wouldn't be worth it. Because China would be going against the US, both would have their economies severely damaged and both would lose.
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On November 25 2010 13:42 Deadlyhazard wrote:
I doubt China would back NK. They know it would cause a global war...and that wouldn't be worth it. Because China would be going against the US, both would have their economies severely damaged and both would lose. The United States is about to move in aircraft carriers. I think that's a pretty clear indication that the US is going to back South Korean retaliation. Do you really think that China's going to ignore this? Given the Chinese report, they definitely think that South Korea brought this on themselves. I see no reason they would NOT support North Korea. China has absolute leverage over just about every country involved in this.
They are the largest customer for South Korean exports. They could easily cut that market off and put a stranglehold on South Korea's economy. At the same time, China could do something similar to the United States. Granted, at this point it would probably be something akin to Mutually Assured Destruction, but I'm sure the US is just as afraid of this situation as China is. If China were to back North Korea, I don't think the South Koreans or the Americans would be insane enough to start something. Finally, (and probably most obviously) China controls North Korea. Period. Without China, the government ceases to exist in a short few years, so North Korea will bend over backwards for China.
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
On November 25 2010 13:38 Duban wrote:Show nested quote +It isn't very hard for them to clusterbomb us with chemical weapons from a conventional jet and all they have to do is get one or two off in Seoul which is right fucking next to the DMZ. If you're trying to convince me that there's no reason to fear for people's lives in Seoul I consider you the uninformed one.
There are 10 million people in Seoul, it's not a stretch to think 5 million people could die if they hit it hard. I never said that there wouldn't be massive casualties. Throughout this entire thread I've stated, repeatedly, that an artillery bombardment would be bad. The person that I was quoting stated that "ONE BOMB" would kill 5 million people. I assumed he meant nukes while, for the time being, the nukes pose little threat to civilian lives.
North Korea won't nuke South Korea, they will nuke Japan, North Koreans still think South Korea is part of their Korea or our Korea. In the first 20 mins of war, there will be at least 1 M South Korean causalities in Seoul due to artillery fire, everyone who goes to the army in Korea knows this, its simply unavoidable.
Just wanted to add this in, as far how the war would end up if there was war, will all depend on how China would react and the last Korean war, they reacted quite strongly...
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On November 25 2010 13:53 MightyAtom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 13:38 Duban wrote:It isn't very hard for them to clusterbomb us with chemical weapons from a conventional jet and all they have to do is get one or two off in Seoul which is right fucking next to the DMZ. If you're trying to convince me that there's no reason to fear for people's lives in Seoul I consider you the uninformed one.
There are 10 million people in Seoul, it's not a stretch to think 5 million people could die if they hit it hard. I never said that there wouldn't be massive casualties. Throughout this entire thread I've stated, repeatedly, that an artillery bombardment would be bad. The person that I was quoting stated that "ONE BOMB" would kill 5 million people. I assumed he meant nukes while, for the time being, the nukes pose little threat to civilian lives. North Korea won't nuke South Korea, they will nuke Japan, North Koreans still think South Korea is part of their Korea or our Korea. In the first 20 mins of war, there will be at least 1 M South Korean causalities in Seoul due to artillery fire, everyone who goes to the army in Korea knows this, its simply unavoidable. Just wanted to add this in, as far how the war would end up if there was war, will all depend on how China would react and the last Korean war, they reacted quite strongly...
yap they would prolly point their missiles to the Japanese nuclear reactors
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On November 25 2010 13:38 n00bination wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 13:03 ImFromPortugal wrote: North Korea isnt trying to invade the South, they responded against the drills South Korea was doing , and they warned they wouldnt admit such activities.
"The skirmish began after North Korea warned the South to stop carrying out military drills near their sea border, South Korean officials said.
When Seoul refused and fired artillery into disputed waters - away from the North Korean shore - the North retaliated by shelling Yeonpyeong."
Agreed. The South Korean military, if sources are correct, provoked a response by firing into disputed waters. SourceIt's in Chinese, for what it's worth. This means that China and Russia will most likely back North Korea. Unless the US wants World War III on their hands, they better defuse this situation.
China is going to stay as neutral as possible here. And if they do any posturing behind NK at all, it will pretty much be commonly accepted that they are trying to maintain their political influence over North Korea.
EDIT: Clarifying
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On November 25 2010 13:48 n00bination wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 13:42 Deadlyhazard wrote:
I doubt China would back NK. They know it would cause a global war...and that wouldn't be worth it. Because China would be going against the US, both would have their economies severely damaged and both would lose. The United States is about to move in aircraft carriers. I think that's a pretty clear indication that the US is going to back South Korean retaliation. Do you really think that China's going to ignore this? Given the Chinese report, they definitely think that South Korea brought this on themselves. I see no reason they would NOT support North Korea. China has absolute leverage over just about every country involved in this. They are the largest customer for South Korean exports. They could easily cut that market off and put a stranglehold on South Korea's economy. At the same time, China could do something similar to the United States. Granted, at this point it would probably be something akin to Mutually Assured Destruction, but I'm sure the US is just as afraid of this situation as China is. If China were to back North Korea, I don't think the South Koreans or the Americans would be insane enough to start something. Finally, (and probably most obviously) China controls North Korea. Period. Without China, the government ceases to exist in a short few years, so North Korea will bend over backwards for China. Is China known for being that aggressive in the past, say, decade or two? I'm not sure they'd do something like that.
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What if CHINA stages a coup in North Korea and establishes a puppet leader more stable than Kim to avoid war while maintaining their influence over North Korea. Seems like the smartest thing to do imo.
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On November 25 2010 13:58 ZerglingSoup wrote:
China is going to stay as neutral as possible here. And if they do any posturing behind NK at all, it will pretty much be commonly accepted that they are trying to maintain their political influence over North Korea.
EDIT: Clarifying Yeah, perhaps "back" is a bit strong. I do think the last thing China wants is a war with an ally that could drag countries around it into conflict. In that regard, they probably won't come out and support the shelling of the island.
That said, I absolutely do not believe that China will stand for any sort of aggression on the part of the United States' part. What we'll probably see is some sort of negotiation to defuse this. China can't afford a costly war in the midst of their economic growth and the United States can't afford another war far from home, especially not one that has the potential to involve an extremely large trading partner as an enemy.
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On November 25 2010 14:00 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 13:48 n00bination wrote:On November 25 2010 13:42 Deadlyhazard wrote:
I doubt China would back NK. They know it would cause a global war...and that wouldn't be worth it. Because China would be going against the US, both would have their economies severely damaged and both would lose. The United States is about to move in aircraft carriers. I think that's a pretty clear indication that the US is going to back South Korean retaliation. Do you really think that China's going to ignore this? Given the Chinese report, they definitely think that South Korea brought this on themselves. I see no reason they would NOT support North Korea. China has absolute leverage over just about every country involved in this. They are the largest customer for South Korean exports. They could easily cut that market off and put a stranglehold on South Korea's economy. At the same time, China could do something similar to the United States. Granted, at this point it would probably be something akin to Mutually Assured Destruction, but I'm sure the US is just as afraid of this situation as China is. If China were to back North Korea, I don't think the South Koreans or the Americans would be insane enough to start something. Finally, (and probably most obviously) China controls North Korea. Period. Without China, the government ceases to exist in a short few years, so North Korea will bend over backwards for China. Is China known for being that aggressive in the past, say, decade or two? I'm not sure they'd do something like that. Those were extreme examples in the case of the most extreme situation: full-blown fighting between the Koreas with the United States directly involved. Will it get to that situation? I certainly hope not, and I don't think it will. There's simply too much at stake to risk war.
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I'm not usually one for crying that the sky is falling, (and I'm not even saying that now) but this situation is looking increasingly worse 
Politics is definitely not my strong suit, but I fail to see any satisfactory way to handle this situation. NK can't be ignored because they do stupid shit like this, they can't be attacked because they are probably crazy enough to launch as many nukes as they can if they were losing (and even if their nuclear capabilities have been grossly over-exaggerated, their proximity to Seoul means that conventional weapons can still cause catastrophic civilian casualties) and I have a hard time seeing peaceful negotiations even being an option. Could China really be convinced to totally reign in North Korea? I can't imagine what it would take for them to initiate such drastic measures. I try to have an optimistic outlook on things, but I really can't think of an optimal solution to this mess.
My thoughts are certainly with the people of South Korea through this, and I hope someone can come up with some way to handle North Korea :/
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
My wife wants us to move to Hong Kong, but I told her that Soju is expensive there and so we looked at each other and dropped the subject. ^^
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Lol i miss you hyung our time was short but you taught me so much
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(1) VIEWS OF THE USFK AND THE ROK ARMED FORCES
¢¹ North Korea's political and military leadership views the KPA as the fourth largest conventional force in the world both in terms of size and capability, replete with one of the best chemical weapons inventories in the world. Another entrenched assumption is that the ROK armed forces will not mount a serious challenge, and North Korean victory is certain if not for the USFK.
- In addition, they claim ability to track movement by all South Korean combat aircraft and warships, and enough artillery to level Seoul completely within five or six minutes, regardless of the southern defense budget that far outstrips the North's.
¢¹ The North Korean population has been led to believe that its special forces can infiltrate the US just as easily as the South Korean coast, by their propaganda machine. It also claims the US mainland will not be safe from combat, unlike the wars in the past.
¢¹ North Korea has vowed to counter any US offensive with suicide attacks upon American aircraft and warships, which they conceive will be effective at keeping US forces at bay. The DPRK military belittles the military significance of the Gulf War, and claims that it has the technological capability to match the US military.
¢¹ Kim Jong-il and his planners analyzed potential weaknesses of US weaponry after the Gulf War, and produced a film concerning North Korean victory over US weapons systems. The film was made required viewing for the military commanders in strategy and other departments, for purposes of augmenting confidence in the possibility of triumph over the US forces.
¢¹ A successful suicide attack and sinking of even one US cruiser will ignite anti-war protests that will take the US out of the war, and threats of is enough to cow the South Korean population into submission, according to North Korean propaganda.
from source: http://www.sfexaminer.com/news/2010/11/us-carriers-arrival-korea-also-sends-message-china (someone posted this in a previous page)
so my question is, what makes NK so confident that their military technologies and capabilities match that of the US? I mean, clearly, they are delusional, but it seems like such a retarded thing to say. I'm pretty damn sure they are no where near our military capacities. And LOL at them thinking their special forces can infiltrate our mainland. I would love to see that.
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On November 25 2010 14:26 MightyAtom wrote: My wife wants us to move to Hong Kong, but I told her that Soju is expensive there and so we looked at each other and dropped the subject. ^^
Atleast you and your wife know what are the big reasons to move out!
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