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It looks like a good majority of Europeans get extremely biased information about US Politics. I definitely agree with you guys in that religion needs to get out of politics entirely, but I disagree that the republicans are the idiots that you claim they are.
I think the ridiculous amount of extremism on both sides here is ruining our country, neither party has any interest at all in working together and then blames the other for not wanting to work together. It's pathetic. I can't stand republicans nor democrats for this, and I can't take anyone seriously that votes straight-ticket.
I also think that Europe, with each country being largely homogeneous in race and culture compared to the U.S., means that much of what works for you guys does not work for us. I think this is often overlooked. Here we have cities and giant metropolises (metropolii? lulz) that are more populated and larger than some of your countries. Not to mention we have millions of immigrants bleeding in from Mexico, usually illegally, who are not educated and some who have no interest in even learning the English language. These are unique problems of ours that can't really be fixed via what you call "normal" means, which is one reason the republican party exists: to promote state-solved problems, not federally solved problems.
Anyway, back to your normal US bashing.
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Btw, props to domovoi. While I bet we would disagree on numerous issues, all your posts seem to be aimed at finding the issue being debated, rather than hiding behind rhetoric. That is all to rare in the current political climate, from all sides.
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lol was that video made using sims 3? XD
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On November 04 2010 07:19 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 07:18 Mindcrime wrote:On November 04 2010 07:14 domovoi wrote:
But the US has a couple of states with gay marriage and most of the rest have civil unions with equal benefits. Civil unions have never had benefits equal to marriage. In terms of governmental benefits, yes they have and do. In California, they're required to. (Civil unions are also available to heterosexual couples in California.)
They aren't exactly the same california it's pretty close but there are many differences and in other states it's much worse, there are also implications of being 2nd class when you have to list civil union on papers instead of marriage.
Anything short of exactly the same thing is frankly unacceptable.
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US politics are batshit crazy, or at least that's the way I see it. Bush was hilarious, Obama is just a failure. And the Tea Party, oh the Tea Party.
How exactly did the Tea Party get so popular? I know that our media doesn't like the Tea Party at all, but still they sound like a huge part of USA went round the bend simultaneously.
I am aware that Obama is not a great president either, but Tea Party is just an overreaction. I don't want the most powerful nation on earth swept up in a flurry of religious political dominance and just general stupidity.
+ calling democrats lefties is just outrageous. Our extreme right wing is about the same as democrats.
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I quite like republicans, they're cute and naive :3
who the hell forms a political movement and calls it 'the teabaggers' like seriously nobody in the entire organization knew about the term?
also the glenn beck crowd that's scared by the great big world around them and just want everything to be like when they were kids
and then there's of course the 'intelligent design' crowd, to this crowd I also count christine o'donnell who, FOR CEREAL, spent her 20's campaigning against masturbation
I mean seriously it's like they're all 12 years old and have never been exposed to human beings.
democrats are kind of like republicans except they've been on the internet for more than half an hour
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On November 04 2010 07:05 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 06:56 KOPF wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
The fact that there are only 2 parties in the congress just makes it feel like it would be just a one party show (the party who has the majority in the congress). I don't know how it works and if it does work well. It's just that I really can't fit that into my log. In Finland the cabinet usually has 3 or 4 parties in once and it could even have the Socialdemocratic party and the National Coalition Party (Kokoomus in Finnish) in the same cabinet so there wont be just one party going with all the decisions.
We have two parties because we have a winner-take-all, Presidential system. You have 3-4 parties because you have a proportional, Parliamentary system. Also, most of the time the US government is split, with Congress one party and the President another, so it's rare to have one party making all the decisions. Finally, I think the US system does a better job representing the median voter, since multiparty Parliamentary systems require making some deals with fringe parties in order to form a majority.
And that's what I thought also. I do have to criticize the two-party system for even the possibility of that, unless if there is a way to dismiss the congress (or senate), even though that can be missused as well. I can't really agree or disagree with the representing argument you made, because of the European Union, which has a lot of infulence to the median voter aswell.
I did by the way read the wikipedia page but I couldn't understand all the political English jargon so I am not sure about everything.
Pardon my English. I'm really tired and it has an effect in my English aswell. ^_^
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On November 04 2010 07:22 semantics wrote:
They aren't exactly the same california it's pretty close but there are many differences and in other states it's much worse, there are also implications of being 2nd class when you have to list civil union on papers instead of marriage.
Anything short of exactly the same thing is frankly unacceptable.
I think people overrate such "implications of being 2nd class" (I mean, I certainly don't feel second class for listing Single and not even getting those awesome governmental benefits). But I agree, it's not optimal. Still, I kind of think it's silly how both sides make such a huge deal out of it when there are far more important matters to care about. Like the economy.
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On November 04 2010 07:23 slivaz wrote:
US politics are batshit crazy, or at least that's the way I see it. Bush was hilarious, Obama is just a failure. And the Tea Party, oh the Tea Party.
How exactly did the Tea Party get so popular? I know that our media doesn't like the Tea Party at all, but still they sound like a huge part of USA went round the bend simultaneously.
I am aware that Obama is not a great president either, but Tea Party is just an overreaction. I don't want the most powerful nation on earth swept up in a flurry of religious political dominance and just general stupidity.
+ calling democrats lefties is just outrageous. Our extreme right wing is about the same as democrats.
The Tea Party's main mantra is not religious, but rather, fiscal discipline. It's rather ironic that Europeans are so scared of the Tea Party when they are the frontrunners of fiscal austerity (I mean, the way Germany treats Greece on this matter is a little sickening.) I personally think the Tea Party is retarded, but I see it as a misdirected reaction toward the state of the economy.
In America, you will get voted out if the economy sucks. It's simple as that.
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On November 04 2010 07:23 slivaz wrote:
US politics are batshit crazy, or at least that's the way I see it. Bush was hilarious, Obama is just a failure. And the Tea Party, oh the Tea Party.
How exactly did the Tea Party get so popular? I know that our media doesn't like the Tea Party at all, but still they sound like a huge part of USA went round the bend simultaneously.
I am aware that Obama is not a great president either, but Tea Party is just an overreaction. I don't want the most powerful nation on earth swept up in a flurry of religious political dominance and just general stupidity.
+ calling democrats lefties is just outrageous. Our extreme right wing is about the same as democrats.
the Tea party republicans are actually not that large, they are just really REALLY fucking loud. i wouldn't say that a large portion of the US went crazy at once, I would say there has always been a portion of people with these ideas, and they just voted republican before. High unemployment and a president who is "socalist"(lolz, so not true) in their eyes combine to create a huge shit storm that let a few crazy right wingers in.
I also find the cold war fears, extreme partisanship, and the religious rhetoric stupid. Especially when you consider how similar the two parties are. There are so many things that the republicans fight because it was proposed by the democrats, and if it was proposed by the republicans the exact opposite would happen(bail outs are the prime example, according to republicans at the time bush saved the econ with them, then when obamamamama does the same thing its ruining the country).
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On November 04 2010 07:14 domovoi wrote:
Not sure what you mean about "reformation" (the Protestant reformation??), but yes, not all wealth trickles down, I agree. But it's fallacious to assume none of it does, why do you think supply-side policies (e.g. governmental subsidies to green industries) can and do often work?
Health Care Reform. I thought it was save to call it a reformation. Sorry.
Europe is slightly more progressive when it comes to gay rights, I agree. But the US has a couple of states with gay marriage and most of the rest have civil unions with equal benefits.
Nothing to add there.
Abortion as an issue is as dead as an aborted fetus, hasn't been discussed seriously in the US for over a decade. Some people still throw it out for rhetorical purposes, but the current very liberal abortion laws are not going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
I also thought that they werent going to be changed, good to have a confirmation there. I am just wondering why the topic keeps coming from time to time and some people seem to respond.
There isn't any difference between a politician advocating for a policy because of his religious beliefs (for what it's worth, it's not like the Bible says anything about gay marriage and abortion policy) and advocating for a policy because of his ideology. Religion is ideology, and vice versa; people hold and cherish them based on their culture and upbringing.
Just so you know, a lot of progressive/liberal ideas find their roots in Quaker and Puritan ideology. It's partly why the Northeastern US votes Democrats.
I am well aware that the bible states no such things (but does some crazy stuff noone would take seriously) - for me it is hard to belive that so many people are rooted deep in religion. I can not say that many of my friends and or the peorple I know take religion very seriously. It tends to come up in right wing partys who rally their troops against the islam invasion we are having - getting some votes from people who dont know shit. (LOL WUT where is it - all my muslim friends dont really care about it either.)
Well to me it seems strange that so many people believe in god or other multiple gods AND also take it seriously in the most advaned country in the world. Or is it. (nah you are)
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Having studied US politics a little bit, it seems to me that the political system is still lodged in the sort of generally-further-right-wing Liberalism (in the "real" sense of the word liberal, not the way it is used in the US atm) that was fairly common in European states in the late 19th and early 20th centuries before the rise of socialism.
Looking too closely tends to make me angry, but I am a lefty (by European standards - i.e. I see the democrats as a central-right party  ) so that is fairly unsurprising.
edit: The general hypocrisy of the right wing wanting the government not to regulate businesses and not to give any support to the poor WHILE they demand that abortion, gay marriage and a plethora of other "social" issues should be heavily regulated... just more shit that makes me angry.
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Cowboy Politics. From what I saw, some of them (and the guy who are voting for them :s) are completely disconnected from the world. Happens in many countries though, sadly. But most politicians at least look serious... not in the US imho :/
Seriously, electing Bush 2 times, Shwarzi as a Governor, some guys/gals making campaign with a gun at their side ?.... Cowboys...
edit : that's what we SEE, at least.
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On November 04 2010 07:20 LOLtex wrote:
It looks like a good majority of Europeans get extremely biased information about US Politics. I definitely agree with you guys in that religion needs to get out of politics entirely, but I disagree that the republicans are the idiots that you claim they are.
I think the ridiculous amount of extremism on both sides here is ruining our country, neither party has any interest at all in working together and then blames the other for not wanting to work together. It's pathetic. I can't stand republicans nor democrats for this, and I can't take anyone seriously that votes straight-ticket.
I also think that Europe, with each country being largely homogeneous in race and culture compared to the U.S., means that much of what works for you guys does not work for us. I think this is often overlooked. Here we have cities and giant metropolises (metropolii? lulz) that are more populated and larger than some of your countries. Not to mention we have millions of immigrants bleeding in from Mexico, usually illegally, who are not educated and some who have no interest in even learning the English language. These are unique problems of ours that can't really be fixed via what you call "normal" means, which is one reason the republican party exists: to promote state-solved problems, not federally solved problems.
Anyway, back to your normal US bashing.
I'm Canadian, but having spent quite a bit of time in the USA and having lived in Europe for a year, I can assure you that Europe also has immigration issues (see the recent Turkish-German headlines) and many "giant metropolises" of their own (Paris, London, Rome, etc.). They're definitely not the exact same issues, but I think it's mostly a "this is what you are used to and you are afraid of change" thing (for both sides) rather than a "everything's totally different here and so we can't apply similar ideas".
I'm actually a fan of the old Republican party that is just for more distributed and generally smaller government, but today's Repubs have too much religion (if they're for smaller government, why do they care about prayer, gays, and abortion?), not enough fiscal conservatism (they spend just as much as the Dems, just on different things), and too much trigger-happiness (wars that should never have been proposed, let alone approved).
Anyways, no country is perfect, and I'd use the USA as a model of success in the past 70 or so years, but I guess I just see the past 10 years or so not going so well, and if that trend continues, it's a little scary.
More parties and more cooperation would fix it, but it's hard when your media makes so much money off of making people pissed off at each other (sometimes I turn on Fox news or certain CNN "debate" segments purely for the lulz, but sadly many people take them seriously).
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US politics is just a bunch of pretty suits. Unfortunately, this is spreading.
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From my point of view, the European dialog on Muslim immigrants is a lot worse than the American one.
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You have states which are allowed to psychical force against children in schools.
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On November 04 2010 07:31 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 07:23 slivaz wrote:
US politics are batshit crazy, or at least that's the way I see it. Bush was hilarious, Obama is just a failure. And the Tea Party, oh the Tea Party.
How exactly did the Tea Party get so popular? I know that our media doesn't like the Tea Party at all, but still they sound like a huge part of USA went round the bend simultaneously.
I am aware that Obama is not a great president either, but Tea Party is just an overreaction. I don't want the most powerful nation on earth swept up in a flurry of religious political dominance and just general stupidity.
+ calling democrats lefties is just outrageous. Our extreme right wing is about the same as democrats. The Tea Party's main mantra is not religious, but rather, fiscal discipline. It's rather ironic that Europeans are so scared of the Tea Party when they are the frontrunners of fiscal austerity (I mean, the way Germany treats Greece on this matter is a little sickening.) I personally think the Tea Party is retarded, but I see it as a misdirected reaction toward the state of the economy. In America, you will get voted out if the economy sucks. It's simple as that.
except that the tea party folks are basically republicans, are funded by billionaires just like republicans and helped to oppose the democrats, who tried to fix the supposedly biggest problem with your spending (health care) which they failed to do (no public option) because they didnt have enough power (republicans working for corporations and blocking everything). oh, republicans also caused this whole mess. its not that we dont know about their mantra or that we hate the tea party so much. its just the complete lack of consistency or misinformation present in your electorate. :/
on top of that there's a pretty big difference between running on fiscal conservatism and actually working towards it.
i guess the main problem are the two party system coupled with the huge amount of corruption, which neither people nor the media seem to be adressing at all.
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From France:
What we see on the news is usually 3mn of serious analysis with quotes from both dem and rep.
Then we get to see 10mn of batshit crazy mofos saying things that would get you in a mental house if you even thought them here.
When it's not elections time, we usually see a school shooting,a case of family heart attack due to mcdonalds,or some religious nutjob burning corans once a month.
What french people think about us politics:
-it's a show and every issue is simplified to the minimum so every redneck can understand.(for example,there's tax in every politician speech,when in France politicians visiting factories talk about GDP HDI and Keynes)
-The one that shouts the louder wins.
-Religion has NOTHING to do with politics.
-Democrats are our liberals(who are called nutjobs here)
-Rep are the guys that dare to be even more right winged than democrats.
-Then you have tea parties,which is pretty much self-eplanatory.
-You fight against what we stand for,you cheer for what we would spit on.
-You're even worse than england,and that's a lot coming from french people.
And the most important point that french will never understand:
who cares if the guy gets a blowjob,good for him
who cares if the guy gets taped being assfucked in a motel with a 20 year old,whatever rocks your boat
who cares if the guy's family gets a puppy
Oh and btw,i share some of those thoughts;)
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On November 04 2010 07:42 domovoi wrote:
From my point of view, the European dialog on Muslim immigrants is a lot worse than the American one.
Europe is not a country...yet.
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EPT
