EPTHow do foreigners view US politics? - Page 51
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pedduck
Thailand468 Posts
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xylos
Switzerland61 Posts
On November 17 2010 20:13 Velr wrote: I don't see ANY reason to own a gun with ammo in Switzerland. That may be true for you, but fortunately the vast majority of our country feels different, thats why we have the most liberal and best gun laws in europe. | ||
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esperanto
Germany357 Posts
I remember in my childhood my family was in vacation in south france. One night a group of young "wanna be gangsters" tried to break into our house to steal money. My father stood up, took a shovel and ran into the living room screaming "get the fuck off my house". They immidiatly all ran away. It wasnt a big deal, first cause my father knew that it was rather unlikely that they have guns (cause its europe) and second cause normally if someone breaks in, he just wants money and once he is caught he runs away if he isnt really really stupid. In my opinion, situations like this become enormously more dangerouse when you have a gun to "defend yourself". For that I am really happy to live in a country with a kinda high gun-control. (Plus it really is very unlikely that someone robbing you has a gun in europe) In germany you are only allowed to have a gun, when you are active in shooting-sports, make courses on a regular base and safety training and you have to lock your weapons in a safe at home. Oh, and only semi-automatic weapons are allowed. You have to make some tests and then you get a special "gun owner id". I dont know where here ppl get statistics of lower crimerates in countrys with a loose gun control, cause I dont find these statistics. What I found are some statistics about murderrate: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Map-world-murder-rate.svg (it counts murders per 100.000 ppl) It kinda speaks for itself. Another thing I found was the number of robberys that end with a murder in germany 2009 (this includes street robbery, criminals steal from each other and kill each other, normal burglarys and robbery in for example a shop/store). It's only 19, 19 in all over germany in a year. And all in all 623 ppl have been killed (murder + normal killing and this includes cases of ppl helping other ppl to die). Make up your mind what this means. Germany has a high gun control. You can read all the german crime statistics here: http://www.bka.de/pks/pks2009/startseite.html Edit: To the SVP voters here, look on the murderrate map, swizerland actually has the highest in western europe. Seems like a great gun-law you have there... | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10966 Posts
FFS a friend of mine had his damn army rifle in his car at nearly all times... (he put it in after a repetition course and only takes it out when going for the obligatory shooting/other repetition course...). Kinda fun when going camping/wherever and allways have to put your bags and so on, on a gun.. It's just such a non issue and thats actually because gun crime is not "big" here and therefore it's hard to create a real issue out of it. Iirc the biggest "concern" with Guns in switzerland is that suicide rates with guns are high and probably would be lower whiteout guns (because it's friggin easy to do suicide with a gun). | ||
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xylos
Switzerland61 Posts
There is no reason why a responsible citizen should not be allowed to own guns. To your friend, what he did was highly illegal, you can keep your gun at home but not in your car, except you are driving to the range, ,to or coming from a gun shop, the army shooting, or from one of your properties to another... Tho I can understand him since I always keep a loaded pistol in my nightstand. And yes, almost all deaths from legally owned guns are suicides, but still, I prefer a guy that shoots himself than one who goes crazy on the road or jumps infront of a train and ruins the life of others. | ||
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esperanto
Germany357 Posts
On November 17 2010 21:29 xylos wrote: There is no reason why a responsible citizen should not be allowed to own guns. You better turn it this way: There is absolutly no reason why a responsible citizen would need a gun. | ||
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xylos
Switzerland61 Posts
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esperanto
Germany357 Posts
On November 17 2010 21:36 xylos wrote: dude thats not how the free world works, bans should be the exception, not the standard, you shouldn't have to find arguments why something should be allowed, but why something should be banned. Read my post above about murderrates and guns in dangerous situations. Plus, I am talking about gun-control not banning guns. | ||
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xylos
Switzerland61 Posts
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Blobskillz
Germany548 Posts
On November 17 2010 20:54 xylos wrote: Well if someone breaks into your house you don't know his intentions, you don't know whether he is armed or not, I'd rather shoot him before I find out. just anothergood example of my prejudice against Swiss. Redneck country | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On November 17 2010 21:53 Blobskillz wrote: just anothergood example of my prejudice against Swiss. Redneck country Would you really wait to find out? And ruin any chance of surprise? | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10966 Posts
On November 17 2010 21:53 Blobskillz wrote: just anothergood example of my prejudice against Swiss. Redneck country Yeah, thats why essentially all the other swiss in this tread disagree with xylo and his bullshiting (just read the statistics part again, it's astonishing). Or at least have arguments that are worth calling argument... | ||
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xylos
Switzerland61 Posts
And you haven't brought up one single argument. | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
On November 17 2010 21:53 Blobskillz wrote: just anothergood example of my prejudice against Swiss. Redneck country I think the "rednecks" you're talking about are the german speaking swiss (the majority though), because the french and italian parts seem to have a totally different way of thinking when you look at the votes (referendum and such). I could be wrong but this is what I noticed during my 3 years studies in geneva (<3 geneve & lausanne), switzerland seems like a very split country made of people who can't even communicate with eachother because of different languages | ||
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xylos
Switzerland61 Posts
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
On November 17 2010 21:34 esperanto wrote: You better turn it this way: There is absolutly no reason why a responsible citizen would need a gun. You could also say "There is also no reason why a country with reasonable laws needs police" or "there is no reason why a responsible country needs military weapons" you would be terribly wrong.... the reason responsible citizens need guns is ... irresponsible citizens. Until police get 1 sec. warp-ins, then their guns will always potentially be less able to defend you than your own guns will. The police MAY have better judgement, and probably have better skill with their guns than you do... but they are not There, and so their judgement+skills are unavailable. Also, even if the police DO have 1 sec. warp-ins. this forces you to be dependent on the police. | ||
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PapaDragon
Germany57 Posts
stop talking about Guns. Topic was how the world sees american politics, and not how wrong or right it is, that 50% of the swiss people are having guns in their houses. | ||
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esperanto
Germany357 Posts
On November 18 2010 00:55 Krikkitone wrote: You could also say "There is also no reason why a country with reasonable laws needs police" or "there is no reason why a responsible country needs military weapons" you would be terribly wrong.... the reason responsible citizens need guns is ... irresponsible citizens. Until police get 1 sec. warp-ins, then their guns will always potentially be less able to defend you than your own guns will. The police MAY have better judgement, and probably have better skill with their guns than you do... but they are not There, and so their judgement+skills are unavailable. Also, even if the police DO have 1 sec. warp-ins. this forces you to be dependent on the police. Gun control politics in USA is a topic that is seen diffrent in europe. Anyway I am sorry for my post above, it was an open invitation for gun-nut-trolls. But your answer leads me to a question. Do you feel so unsafe in USA? Cause I could make a prediction that in my entire life I wont ever get in a situation where I need a gun (I feel pretty safe in germany). But if I had a gun, I couldnt be sure an accident happends. That was my logic behind the statement above. Edit: Found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate The rate of gun related homicides per 100.000 ppl a year that is over 30 times higher in USA compared to germany actually make a diffrent in the point of view. | ||
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
On November 18 2010 02:50 esperanto wrote: I am sorry for my post, it was an open invitation for gun-nut-trolls. But your answer leads me to a question. Do you feel so unsafe in USA? Cause think I could make a prediction that in my entire life I wont ever get in a situation where I need a gun (I feel pretty safe in germany). But if I had a gun, I couldnt be sure an accident happends. That was my logic behind the statement above. Murder rates in the US are one of the highest in civilized countries. We also have a large income inequality gap which means that we have a lot of poor people who don't get as much government assistance as they would in western european countries which means lots of poor frustrated people who don't mind using violence to get what they want. This also means we have a lot of poor, mentally unstable people (increased by drug and alcohol use when pregnant and child abuse in poorer families) who are not treated for their mental disorders who often go off and commit crime. The media and internet also make it very easy for news of crimes to spread and create fear, so no, I'm pretty sure the US is not as safe as Germany, and the perception of safety is probably much less in the US. | ||
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domovoi
United States1478 Posts
Cause I could make a prediction that in my entire life I wont ever get in a situation where I need a gun (I feel pretty safe in germany). Most of the people who argue for gun rights don't live in particularly dangerous areas of the US. Most of them simply want guns because they make for an interesting hobby. (Shooting a gun is pretty fun, btw!) Most of the people who argue for more gun control don't live in particularly dangerous areas of the US either, though they tend to congregate in larger cities, where gun crime might be more likely. The people who live in areas where gun crime actually is a big problem (i.e. the ghettos) don't vote and probably have a gun regardless. | ||
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