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On November 04 2010 07:01 leveller wrote:
Basically, since you have about 50% voting a lot of people dont take your "democracy" very seriously
Historically it's closer to 60% of the population that is of voting age, and often it is the youth that does not vote.
And it's usually 70% who register and around 80-90% of those that actually go and vote, often not on all the issues. That's where you get the 60%
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On November 04 2010 06:56 KOPF wrote:
The fact that there are only 2 parties in the congress just makes it feel like it would be just a one party show (the party who has the majority in the congress). I don't know how it works and if it does work well. It's just that I really can't fit that into my log. In Finland the cabinet usually has 3 or 4 parties in once and it could even have the Socialdemocratic party and the National Coalition Party (Kokoomus in Finnish) in the same cabinet so there wont be just one party going with all the decisions.
We have two parties because we have a winner-take-all, Presidential system. You have 3-4 parties because you have a proportional, Parliamentary system. Also, most of the time the US government is split, with Congress one party and the President another, so it's rare to have one party making all the decisions. Finally, I think the US system does a better job representing the median voter, since multiparty Parliamentary systems require making some deals with fringe parties in order to form a majority.
The one other question I have is the fact that socialism is still the devil of ideologies in the USA. Is it because of the capitalistic culture or just a shadow of the USSR? I would love for an answer for these questions by an american, because I've been puzzled with them for a while now.
Americans tend to score very high on surveys measuring individualism. It doesn't have much to do with the USSR, since that was more about totalitarianism rather than wealth redistribution (which, mind you, we were passing plenty of during the Cold war). It might also have a lot to do with tribalism, and America being a very heterogeneous society, there are various fragmented social groups which may have a harder time feeling empathetic toward other social groups.
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I just think its stupid how their dead-set on a two party system.
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On November 04 2010 06:48 dcberkeley wrote:
although my city just elected rob ford
so i think canadian politics are approaching the level of the USA
Lol Rob Ford. Poor Toronto. It scares me that he was able to win. FOOTBALL!
As for US politics, I would liken them to a train wreck. Horrendous, but you can't look away.
I've spent a lot of time watching O'Reilly and Glenn Beck just for that feeling of incredulity at how ignorant they are.
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On November 04 2010 07:01 leveller wrote:
Basically, since you have about 50% voting a lot of people dont take your "democracy" very seriously
its not a democracy. its a republic.
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Interesting how polarizing this issue can be. For my part I take great interest in following the hype that surrounds election time in the US. It isn't really that different from what goes on up here in Canada to be perfectly honest. The biggest difference is that no one seems to care who we elect here(lol). Our politicians seem to look up to the Americans and often "borrow" strategies from our southern neighbours.
I think for almost everyone in the world the American voting process matters quite a great deal as they have a lot of influence over global economic and foreign policy(UN). Then there is also the fact that it is now a form of entertainment for the masses and everything that every candidate(and anyone even remotely connected to said candidate) says can be twisted, bent and even broken in half by editing and the fickle news media empire. It makes for a spectacle unlike any other.
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Out here they consider them somewhat of fascists. Bush was often compared to Hitler in the media, and Obama as the man who would do the change, but failed.
A well educated person here considers the situation the way it is, politicians are the reflection of the average people, and they hate them.
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The amount of nationalism being displayed in this thread makes me believe that you foreigners are just as dumb as the majority of Americans. Just as oblivious, too. When I play you guys on the ladder, you can't think outside the box. I read your kind instantly. Whether it's a dumb American or dumb foreigner, you are the guys that 4gate, mega-rax, and read cookie-cutter builds. Not many of you play Zerg. Most of you play protoss with some Terran.
I've never seen someone derail a reasonable opening sentence so hard with the rest of the paragraph.
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Everywhere else in the world they are called backward religious nuts in america they are called republicans and they have quite a large following, which is pretty scary
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The socialism fear is kinda hilarious, as Sweden is given as an example all the time. "Do you really want America to turn into a socialist country like Sweden?!" yeah, turn into one of the top 5 countries to live in vs Americas like 20th spot if even that. And also everyone pretty much considers Sarah Palin to be batshit insane and if she wins the US elections me and my buddies are moving to the moon.
Most reactions are however aimed at conservatives in the form of the religion being mixed into politics, even saw an interview with Tony Blair who is quite religious according to himself but he clearly stated that religion has no place in politics, something i consider to be the opposite of how it seems to be in America. Which blends in with the american familly values, i think its hilarious when a politician gives a statement or runs a campaign his familly is there with him on display, perfect happy familly. You never ever see any of our politicians parade their familly around as a show dog to give the illusion of "sound" familly values and a perfect appearance.
Also i havent got a clue how the American voting system works, midterm elections? Sounds weird, all i know is that the one who gets the most votes doesnt actually always win, and if u live in one state your vote might not count as much as if u live in another state, not very democratic to me.
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On November 04 2010 07:05 Frobert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 06:48 dcberkeley wrote:
although my city just elected rob ford
so i think canadian politics are approaching the level of the USA Lol Rob Ford. Poor Toronto. It scares me that he was able to win. FOOTBALL! As for US politics, I would liken them to a train wreck. Horrendous, but you can't look away. I've spent a lot of time watching O'Reilly and Glenn Beck just for that feeling of incredulity at how ignorant they are.
Lol, Rob Ford...I was sorry I moved from Toronto to Winnipeg for med school, RIGHT UP until this election...Tdot is doomed lol
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On November 04 2010 07:05 Frobert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 06:48 dcberkeley wrote:
although my city just elected rob ford
so i think canadian politics are approaching the level of the USA Lol Rob Ford. Poor Toronto. It scares me that he was able to win. FOOTBALL! As for US politics, I would liken them to a train wreck. Horrendous, but you can't look away. I've spent a lot of time watching O'Reilly and Glenn Beck just for that feeling of incredulity at how ignorant they are.
Yea I was convinced that he was going to win but I was still saddened that it happened. Also I think it shows how much torontonians were fed up with past elected officials and maybe even that we have lower tolerance for homosexuality than we advertise. I just want to clarify that I voted for Smitherman and have fully supported him and his campaign but I am a visible minority and lots of people in my community were very vocal about not voting for him not based on his policies but on his private life which is very disappointing.
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On November 04 2010 07:07 groms wrote:
Interesting how polarizing this issue can be. For my part I take great interest in following the hype that surrounds election time in the US. It isn't really that different from what goes on up here in Canada to be perfectly honest. The biggest difference is that no one seems to care who we elect here(lol). Our politicians seem to look up to the Americans and often "borrow" strategies from our southern neighbours.
I think for almost everyone in the world the American voting process matters quite a great deal as they have a lot of influence over global economic and foreign policy(UN). Then there is also the fact that it is now a form of entertainment for the masses and everything that every candidate(and anyone even remotely connected to said candidate) says can be twisted, bent and even broken in half by editing and the fickle news media empire. It makes for a spectacle unlike any other.
I wouldn't mind our hero syndrome type politics, often people are sold as if they as one person can change the whole, so much if either we had much stronger parties.
Although i know most people in Europe may not get this but candidates are brought up and sold as individuals although they are aligned with a party they are often not representative of the party on many issues.
Parties often just endorse one and block candidates they can't live with, more so smear campaigns and blocking is common place, basically the party system is there to fund money for campaigns and in return they pull ranks every once and awhile and act like one entity but most of the time they are individuals.
Or if the way votes are counted are changed to fully based on popular vote instead of the winner take all kind of set up we have now.
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On November 04 2010 07:04 Tufas wrote:
1. Talking about the reformation, as far as I know (or am informed) there are some mayor flaws.
Even if 50% of your personal wealth would actually "trickle" down which is highly improbable , there can still be billions of dollars in private funds, not invested, never going back into the economy.
Not sure what you mean about "reformation" (the Protestant reformation??), but yes, not all wealth trickles down, I agree. But it's fallacious to assume none of it does, why do you think supply-side policies (e.g. governmental subsidies to green industries) can and do often work?
2. True, for now only Belgium Iceland Netherlands Norway Portugal Spain and Sweden.
Registerd partnerships in : Austria Czech Republic Denmark Finland France Germany Hungary Ireland Luxembourg Slowenia Switzerland and the United Kingdom and most of the countrys with gay marriage allready on their way or in the process of bringing it into their laws.
Europe is slightly more progressive when it comes to gay rights, I agree. But the US has a couple of states with gay marriage and most of the rest have civil unions with equal benefits.
3. This was (maybe not stated clearly enough as I can see) against a great fraction of people who still think that abortion is bad and needs to be banned. I do not know a protest of this proportion in the E.U. (not europe, as I am not that good informed about some countrys in europe).
Abortion as an issue is as dead as an aborted fetus, hasn't been discussed seriously in the US for over a decade. Some people still throw it out for rhetorical purposes, but the current very liberal abortion laws are not going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
4. Well I beg to differ. I dont want my time wasted by politicians who speak abour religion .. we might have to fight with our fists here. Well, I am saddend when I hear that ultra right wing catholics ( just an example) go out and protest against this and that for in the bible it says this and that... it really makes me wanna cry. But as long as this is accepted policy, nothing will change.
There isn't any difference between a politician advocating for a policy because of his religious beliefs (for what it's worth, it's not like the Bible says anything about gay marriage and abortion policy) and advocating for a policy because of his ideology. Religion is ideology, and vice versa; people hold and cherish them based on their culture and upbringing.
Just so you know, a lot of progressive/liberal ideas find their roots in Quaker and Puritan ideology. It's partly why the Northeastern US votes Democrats.
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As a Canadian, I find it hilarious that mainstream Democrats in the USA are accused of being "crazy left-wingers" when in any other country they'd be firmly in the right wing.
Countries like Canada (still fairly right wing by European standards) and Sweden consistently outrank the USA in most measures of "how good is your country?" and particularly when it comes to overall happiness (do any other measures really matter?).
Also, the amount of religion that seeps into US politics would scare the hell out of me. Do you really want decisions being made by people who think everything that happens is just God's will anyways and so they feel no real sense of responsibility? Or who think that everyone goes to a magical happy place after they die, so really death isn't that bad? Aaaaaahhh! LOL.
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On November 04 2010 07:15 CrAzEdBaDgEr wrote:
As a Canadian, I find it hilarious that mainstream Democrats in the USA are accused of being "crazy left-wingers" when in any other country they'd be firmly in the right wing.
Countries like Canada (still fairly right wing by European standards) and Sweden consistently outrank the USA in most measures of "how good is your country?" and particularly when it comes to overall happiness (do any other measures really matter?).
Also, the amount of religion that seeps into US politics would scare the hell out of me. Do you really want decisions being made by people who think everything that happens is just God's will anyways and so they feel no real sense of responsibility? Or who think that everyone goes to a magical happy place after they die, so really death isn't that bad? Aaaaaahhh! LOL.
As long as they aren't catholic :D
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On November 04 2010 07:14 domovoi wrote:
But the US has a couple of states with gay marriage and most of the rest have civil unions with equal benefits.
Civil unions have never had benefits equal to marriage and the majority of states do not have them anyway.
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Reading this has made me so sad...
The implicit misconceptions are rampant, and generally over the top.
We ain't perfect people, but come on, how many posters have actually taken the time to sit down and watch American News (ABC, FOX, MSNBC, CNN) for a few hours? It's pure sensationalism top to bottom. I feel like the image of domestic happenings in the US are grossly exaggerated and distorted when presented to the rest of the world, almost as badly as it is when presented to our own people...but not quite THAT bad.
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I should also throw in that Toronto electing Rob Ford and Calgary electing Naheed Nenshi is pretty hilariously ironic by historical standards. Poor Toronto...
Canada's far from perfect too. The whole two party thing in the USA is also scary, though, especially since they're both so close together on the political spectrum (despite what Fox News or HuffPost may tell you).
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On November 04 2010 07:18 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 07:14 domovoi wrote:
But the US has a couple of states with gay marriage and most of the rest have civil unions with equal benefits. Civil unions have never had benefits equal to marriage.
In terms of governmental benefits, yes they have and do. In California, they're required to.
(Civil unions are also available to heterosexual couples in California.)
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EPT
