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miseiler
United States1389 Posts
Industry work is not interesting. I do grad work (and will continue in academia) because I like it. I do the research I want to on the projects I am interested in. That kind of freedom comes at a very, very steep price. If you don't want to pay it, you do not have the right to complain. | ||
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Rev0lution
United States1805 Posts
I volunteer in a organic lab, the post doc works from 10AM-7pm most days, sometimes he leaves at 9pm but that happens rarely. Grad students don't have it as hard as post docs, it all depends on your PI. The PI in the letter sounds like a real asshole. | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
On July 23 2010 04:46 semantics wrote: You're not tring to paint a dim picture of academia but this thread is  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125572 Also in light of this saying that universities train twice as many PhDs as there are jobs for them... whatever.. I believe that just like music artists, you need a marketable feature / talent / ambition to be taken seriously by the real people that make the world go round (investors/companies) to actually do any 'damage'. Until you actually garner enough support/resources/money then you can actually proceed in specific 'world changing' endeavors. (Or if you can find a company that already does that and get hired that is) That's what is really DIM imo if you want to change the world. | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
On July 26 2010 23:01 miseiler wrote: I'm a bit surprised at some of the responses in this thread. I work all day and weekends because I want to do it. If I didn't, I wouldn't be slaving away at a PhD making less than enough to live with no light at the end of the tunnel. Industry work is not interesting. I do grad work (and will continue in academia) because I like it. I do the research I want to on the projects I am interested in. That kind of freedom comes at a very, very steep price. If you don't want to pay it, you do not have the right to complain. | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
However, there is a difference between wanting to work those extra hours and being forced to work those extra hours. Personally, I set targets for my research. If I meet them ahead of schedaule, I can slow down abit. If I am late on them, I will work more. So it's true that the OP needs to be taken in context. If the postdoc is getting great results but only working "regular" hours most of the time then the prof has a serious problem. If the postdoc should really be putting more time into his research but has just been ditching... he might want to reconsider his career choice. | ||
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Blanke
Canada180 Posts
Sorry, I couldn't resist. | ||
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EndlessRain
140 Posts
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bburn
United States1039 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
On July 26 2010 23:01 miseiler wrote: I'm a bit surprised at some of the responses in this thread. I work all day and weekends because I want to do it. If I didn't, I wouldn't be slaving away at a PhD making less than enough to live with no light at the end of the tunnel. Industry work is not interesting. I do grad work (and will continue in academia) because I like it. I do the research I want to on the projects I am interested in. That kind of freedom comes at a very, very steep price. If you don't want to pay it, you do not have the right to complain. Attitudes like yours are the reason why the system continues to survive. You provided an explanation for the way it is, but not an argument supporting the way it is. There's no justification for the system being the way it is. Those working conditions just suck. And science is probably worse off because of it since talented people have incentive to take other paths. So yeah, it's understandable that people do it. But people who don't want to do it, or did it and quit, haven't lost their right to judge it. Ideally, all jobs would have perfect working conditions. I can't think of a reason why someone would disagree with that. So, all PhD students should have perfect working conditions. Any outsider can see that the working conditions aren't perfect. So they complain that the working conditions aren't perfect. It does not matter that some PhD students have perfect working conditions, or that some PhD students have tolerable working conditions, or even that all PhD students think that the working conditions are worth it and are satisfied. The fact is still that the working conditions are less than perfect so they should be improved to the greatest extent possible. | ||
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gdroxor
United States639 Posts
That being said, I plan to pursue medical training after undergraduate, research is just too sixth-grade drama with multimillion dollar equipment for me. | ||
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javy_
United States1677 Posts
On August 09 2010 11:56 gdroxor wrote: tbh the only reason that student/postdoc research is so damn time-consuming is because of how competitive the sciences are in the United States. The people you work for while doing graduate research are for the most part hypercompetitive, backstabbing, Machiavellian, draconic assholes who want nothing more than to have that next breakthrough research, even if that means undercutting someone else to get it. They are motivated to get the research done as fast and efficiently as possible, even if you aren't. That being said, I plan to pursue medical training after undergraduate, research is just too sixth-grade drama with multimillion dollar equipment for me. This is the position I'm in right now. There are far too many people who are willing to backstab someone if it means they further their own career, even if it is by the smallest bit. I may end up doing medicine after undergrad instead of going towards research. | ||
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duckett
United States589 Posts
On August 09 2010 11:56 gdroxor wrote: tbh the only reason that student/postdoc research is so damn time-consuming is because of how competitive the sciences are in the United States. The people you work for while doing graduate research are for the most part hypercompetitive, backstabbing, Machiavellian, draconic assholes who want nothing more than to have that next breakthrough research, even if that means undercutting someone else to get it. They are motivated to get the research done as fast and efficiently as possible, even if you aren't. That being said, I plan to pursue medical training after undergraduate, research is just too sixth-grade drama with multimillion dollar equipment for me. really don't understand this attitude. i thought it was a generally understood fact that medical training is much more intense and competitive than graduate school (for those who enjoy doing science). and though i've only worked at 2 labs the people i've worked with were just stellar human beings who really cared about how everyone was doing personally and did their work in their very specific niche of basic science without complaining or attacking others | ||
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necros
United States85 Posts
If you are going to cal-tech, you obviously have a brain in your head, use it! SO obvious. | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
On August 09 2010 07:29 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Attitudes like yours are the reason why the system continues to survive. You provided an explanation for the way it is, but not an argument supporting the way it is. There's no justification for the system being the way it is. Those working conditions just suck. And science is probably worse off because of it since talented people have incentive to take other paths. So yeah, it's understandable that people do it. But people who don't want to do it, or did it and quit, haven't lost their right to judge it. Ideally, all jobs would have perfect working conditions. I can't think of a reason why someone would disagree with that. So, all PhD students should have perfect working conditions. Any outsider can see that the working conditions aren't perfect. So they complain that the working conditions aren't perfect. It does not matter that some PhD students have perfect working conditions, or that some PhD students have tolerable working conditions, or even that all PhD students think that the working conditions are worth it and are satisfied. The fact is still that the working conditions are less than perfect so they should be improved to the greatest extent possible. No, the reason the system continues to survive is because there is limited money for these positions and therefore competition is extremly heavy. I don't know what a perfect working condition is to you but it varies from job to job. | ||
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Ethelis
United States2397 Posts
On August 10 2010 22:45 sikyon wrote: No, the reason the system continues to survive is because there is limited money for these positions and therefore competition is extremly heavy. I don't know what a perfect working condition is to you but it varies from job to job. Wait, he implied that a working perfect condition is the same for all jobs? | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
EDIT: just realised that I might've misunderstood what someone was saying about "go doing medicine" as he/she/it probably meant partake in the manufactoring in a private corp. - if that was the case, my apologies for the above and you are right; it is less competetive. Just gotten pretty tired of people talking about medicine as a lesser science than chemistry, math or physics. | ||
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tiffany
3664 Posts
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