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On July 23 2010 07:57 mmp wrote:
I remember heading to lab late one night to run an NMR sample, found one of my teaching assistants (a grad student) also running a sample with his girlfriend impatiently waiting. It was like 2am.
Lol, reminds me of a joke:
An architect is asked, "Which one would you rather have: a wife or a mistress?" The architect responds, "A wife, of course. She and I would build a stable, happy family together."
An artist is asked, "Which one would you rather have: a wife or a mistress?" The artist responds, "I would prefer a mistress. The exciting, romantic, and clandestine nature of the relationship appeals to me."
A scientist is asked, "Which one would you rather have: a wife or a mistress?" The scientist responds, "Both." The inquirer is confused. "Why both?" The scientist says, "Well, if I have both a wife and a mistress, then the wife will think I'm with the mistress while the mistress will think I'm with the wife. Then, maybe I can go to the lab and finally get some work done..."
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Academia: the most hilariously ironic thing ever. "Intelligent" people doing long hours of work for little or no pay... hilarious.
Protip: Become an Engineer, Software Engineer, or get involved in Business while there's still time. A truly intelligent person would know what he or she wants out of life, and would be willing to do what it takes to get it.
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On July 23 2010 08:33 SirKibbleX wrote:
Academia: the most hilariously ironic thing ever. "Intelligent" people doing long hours of work for little or no pay... hilarious.
Protip: Become an Engineer, Software Engineer, or get involved in Business while there's still time. A truly intelligent person would know what he or she wants out of life, and would be willing to do what it takes to get it.
Which, for those in academia, is intellectual stimulation, constantly overcoming challenges, and placing a brick in the edifice of science. You seem to be assuming that everyone's true desires in life are riches and luxury.
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You're still gonna do long hours as an engineer, same with finance or software development.
I'm a civil engineer and I have to put in 45-55 hours a week during the busy period (mid-spring to mid autumn), a friend of mine works in finance (banking) and does anywhere between 50-70 hours a week. My brother is an actuary and works around 50-60 hours a week, sometimes as much as 80 when the release date of a product is fast approaching.
They are all very fullfilling jobs, but they might not correspond to what someone with a family/spouse would want, regardless of salary.
I guess its important to reach an equilibrium between salary and workload. The time you put in, early in your career, is a pretty important investment (assuming you learn constantly in the process).
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Does anybody find it funny that it says "Guido" at the front?
Reminded me of some Jersey shore shit my friends talk about.
Studying for a PhD sucks clearly.... I'm never doing it. i can contribute to the world in other ways 
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On July 23 2010 08:50 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 08:33 SirKibbleX wrote:
Academia: the most hilariously ironic thing ever. "Intelligent" people doing long hours of work for little or no pay... hilarious.
Protip: Become an Engineer, Software Engineer, or get involved in Business while there's still time. A truly intelligent person would know what he or she wants out of life, and would be willing to do what it takes to get it. Which, for those in academia, is intellectual stimulation, constantly overcoming challenges, and placing a brick in the edifice of science. You seem to be assuming that everyone's true desires in life are riches and luxury.
Then no one should be complaining about it, or implying that working absurdly long hours is somehow not what they want or expect out of life.
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On July 23 2010 09:03 SirKibbleX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 08:50 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On July 23 2010 08:33 SirKibbleX wrote:
Academia: the most hilariously ironic thing ever. "Intelligent" people doing long hours of work for little or no pay... hilarious.
Protip: Become an Engineer, Software Engineer, or get involved in Business while there's still time. A truly intelligent person would know what he or she wants out of life, and would be willing to do what it takes to get it. Which, for those in academia, is intellectual stimulation, constantly overcoming challenges, and placing a brick in the edifice of science. You seem to be assuming that everyone's true desires in life are riches and luxury. Then no one should be complaining about it, or implying that working absurdly long hours is somehow not what they want or expect out of life.
Who complained about it? The only people complaining about it are those who don't belong in academia, or the ones who are jaded after a series of unpleasant experiences. The only thing I saw is you coming in here and degrading academics like you know it all and have found the answers to life.
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chemistry is notorious for being the worst in this regard, but you'll find this everywhere. You just have to do some homework before deciding to sign on with an advisor... if you're a top student you'll have the choice of whether to work for an asshole or not.
That said, I definitely enjoy being in theoretical physics where I work with at most one or two people at a time, and am judged mainly on the quality of my ideas rather than the amount of work I can get done on somebody else's ideas.
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As mentioned many times (just wanted to back it up), long hours in engineering post-grad is nothing new, and it isn't a surprise to anybody who spends the time and effort to get there.
Some people actually enjoy their "job," and "working" isn't really "work" to them. A great analogy for this site would be: suppose you could play SC2 60 hours/week and get paid pretty well to do it? You'd be in heaven, right? Well, I suspect a lot of people who *think* they would like it would actually grow very tired of it, but in academia, you've got many years to figure this out.
So yeah, not feeling too sorry for these poor people who do what they love, get paid fairly well to do it, and have huge potential to be in a great position later in life. If that's not your bag, then you don't have to do it. You can choose not to. Ain't it great?
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Some of the most happy people I know don't know what day it is most of the time because they've been in a lab or a hospital for 48+ hours. My older brother is probably the most interesting person I know and he was stunned when he saw snow covering his car when we invited him over for dinner one day. It had been winter for a good two weeks.
I feel like there's too much academia bashing because those that don't succeed go on their personal blogs and rant away while those that succeed and go on to do great things don't have the time to share their experience.
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I just finished my MS in International Affairs and with faculty encouragement I'm considering a PhD in Economics or at least a JD to add on. My experience in grad school has taught me that the example originally posted is highly particular; things will depend a lot on your field of study, your department, your professors, and your own ability to make this all work for you in a way you want.
OP used a chemistry professor at CalTech as an example; pretty 'worst case' in terms of student happiness I think.
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People that toil for intelleftual pursuit get paid nothing while Angelina Jolie...who really does nothing of actual value...just bought a 5 million dollar house in Italy.
Sounds fair.
Our society finds the most ridiculous things worthwhile
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i dont think anyone in their right mind would claim academia is t3h ez life but that picture looked like a hoax.
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If the academia gets harsher to people, it's because the academia is the most easily accessible than ever. It's not like in the past when very few possessed the qualities to become professors and postdocs. I think major reorganizations should happen in the near future, in order to accommodate the full range of people capable of doing the same tasks. Now they just try to pretend to be the chosen ones, when clearly there are thousands outside who could replace them.
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40 hour work week requirement? Whoever suggested that is crazy. I just feel sorry for all the grad students and post docs. They're slaving away doing their advisor's dirty work for peanuts with very little chance of getting to the top and actually becoming a full tenured professor. Its pretty sad but they picked their poison.
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Academia always has one big problem: i abuses the PhD students' and post docs' intrinsic motivation. THat is, you get to work a lot and you get paid little.
I'm a PhD student in Göttingen, Germany (heya Yizou!) and have worked about 40 hours a week since I began. In other words, I work exactly as much as I am paid for (undless something really important needs to be dine quickly, of course). But that is mainly because my boss takes good care of his employees and because he knows thatspare time is important.
Biggest problem might be that the more and the harder you work, the more you will publish and the better your prospects are with regards to getting tenure later on in your career. So, basically, it is in your own best interest to work your ass off un less you are confident youcan do it with less effort.
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i'd rather work in a meth lab than a research lab
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On July 23 2010 08:17 ArvickHero wrote:
So.. people have a problem working hard or have never really worked hard before, so instead of doing the hard work that all generations past have been for post-docs, people bitch about how its "slavery" because they are too damn lazy.
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Haha this made me laugh. It just demonstrates the cultural differences between the US and SK. You guys have a "Study hard. Do it. Do nothing else. Its a competition. Slaughter the competition" mentality. The US I would say is much more relaxed and unless you're going for medical school or a top law school its not like nerve wracking competition.
But I plan on going to get my masters and then to work in industy/private sector for awhile then return to get my phd. I eventually want to have a start up with either just me or a couple others.
I personal think that getting a business degree if you are planning on working in the technology sector is kind of dumb. I feel like these days its all about technical knowledge/skills, good business making decisions come naturally if working in the proper setting and most intelligent people can work out the details of managing a part or an entire small business.
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Former law, current medical student here; competition is cut-throat everywhere/ in every field if you want to be the top guy. High population, declining economic conditions, general decline in the world both in social and economic aspects: increasing competition. It's gonna get worse and I think it should. I work 20+ hours to support myself anyway and that's with my tuition-free scholarship. Add 30+ contact hours at school. That's not counting the studying I have to do on top.
Life is tough for those who aren't born to rich families. So stop being lazy, do the hard work and earn your place in the society.
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On July 23 2010 08:21 O-ops wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 05:01 LaughingTulkas wrote:
I just finished my PhD for Mechanical Engineering (focusing on biomedical applications of lubrication technology) but my prof was not like this at all. He was very hands off, and just judged by our results, he didn't even know if we were in lab or not, we just had to have deliverables when we meet with the people funding our projects. I got my PhD at Notre Dame, which while not in the very top tier of research schools, still has a high academic reputation. It mostly depends on your prof, and maybe on your field as well. Forgive me for my in-sensitiveness, but somehow i just lol'ed really hard when i read that. But yeah, this is really bad stuff. There needs to be an academic version of the 40h workweek law or something.
hahahahaha yeah me too, anal lube scientists ftw.
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EPT
