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On May 14 2010 21:26 HnR)hT wrote:
She was ONLY fired? I.e., not arrested? That is what's fucked up.
What's also fucked up is that what allegedly set off the savage assault was that the kid was "teasing" a girl, i.e., a boy acting naturally. Brainwashing males to be submissive before the female starts early in our society, and is accomplished by some ugly methods.
Incidentally, it takes a strong male authority figure to bring order to these unruly inner city classrooms. A man would simply not have had to resort to violence, under any circumstances.
You dont even got a slightest clue as of how severe the ''teasing' was.
Secondly allthough more male authority figures would help i call bullshit on that thing about men not resorting to violence.
Hell if violence actually breaks out with a male teacher id expect the beatdown to be far worse than if it was a female teacher.
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Not a very informative article regarding the events building up to the incident but I think the majority will agree there is not enough order and effective punishment in schools today, it's very easy to just overlook the problems and say "it you can't deal with it get another job", an easy braindead answer to a difficult problem in today's society. Being slapped on the ground isn't my idea of what the article refers to as a shocking horryfying brutal attack, the worst part for the young chap involved would be having it carried out in front of those he was bullying
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United States43188 Posts
On May 15 2010 01:20 rAize wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote:
There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly.
In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher. Funny how you compare this case to anything else, thats what alot of people do. But its wrong. What in this case makes you have more sympathie for the teacher? I dont wanna hear anything that the kid did some bully joke about females, coz that doesnt matter a bit. She coulda done something else, she lost her job because there is something seriously wrong with her. She lost her job because every actions has it consequences and she is responsible for them herself. So, u got sympathie for her? Then you my friend, are fucked up aswell. If that was yor kid, would you say: hey son, u only got beat a few times, poor teacher, poor teacher. Im sure your kid would smash your face in a few years later.
It's funny how you dismiss comparisons to similiar cases, that's what a lot of people do. BUT IT'S WRONG!!
Obviously hitting children isn't acceptable. I can't believe I'm still having to explain my position but whatever, let's go again. Hitting children is bad. Choosing to hit a child is bad. However having a violent breakdown in a high stress job while suffering from bullying and given inadequate support and training is understandable. It's not good. I don't want breakdowns. I don't think she should be rewarded for having a breakdown. I'm saying I don't hold her entirely accountable for her actions because there were mitigating circumstances.
You my friend, are fucked up as well. I'm not sure why but it seems to be something you believe constitutes a valid point so I'll tack it onto whatever else I'm saying, regardless of relevance. I'm sure some kid should smash your car up.
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If you're a teacher where >50% of students do not want to be there, do no want to learn, and do not care about grades or their future, you're pretty fucked. It's not an impossible situation, but it's a very bad one that few people are equipped for.
On May 15 2010 04:38 Kreedit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 21:26 HnR)hT wrote:
She was ONLY fired? I.e., not arrested? That is what's fucked up.
What's also fucked up is that what allegedly set off the savage assault was that the kid was "teasing" a girl, i.e., a boy acting naturally. Brainwashing males to be submissive before the female starts early in our society, and is accomplished by some ugly methods.
Incidentally, it takes a strong male authority figure to bring order to these unruly inner city classrooms. A man would simply not have had to resort to violence, under any circumstances.
Hell if violence actually breaks out with a male teacher id expect the beatdown to be far worse than if it was a female teacher.
This is not to do with gender, but often people with a greater ability to hurt others (large/strong, or trained in violence) are taught greater restraint and control.
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If teachers and students snapped more often, there would be less douchebags in the world.
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On May 15 2010 05:07 Severedevil wrote:
If you're a teacher where >50% of students do not want to be there, do no want to learn, and do not care about grades or their future, you're pretty fucked. It's not an impossible situation, but it's a very bad one that few people are equipped for.
hey if the students don't care, the teacher should just give up, go through the course material and be done with it. The ones who get emotionally involved are the ones you know that care about the class. Honestly with so many hands tied behind their back, I wouldn't fault any teacher for not caring and not going that extra mile to motivate these "kids".
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United States24723 Posts
On May 15 2010 01:47 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 01:40 micronesia wrote:B On May 15 2010 01:34 BlackJack wrote:On May 14 2010 16:32 Manifesto7 wrote:On May 14 2010 15:38 AppleTart wrote:
Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
At the end of the day removing her only leaves a vacancy in the system, and the system has shown it is willing to fill the vacancy with people like her. Obviously she has to go, but without addressing the route problems that you stated nothing will change. She isn't unnatural as to be an abberation that won't repeat, she is just unfit for the job, which is a common trait among many people. I agree and a very large problem with the system is that teachers here have almost no accountability to be a good teacher. You mention that being unfit for the job is a common trait among many, and when you look at the statistics for teacher firings, most districts fire maybe 1 out of every 1,000 teachers. Last year Los Angeles fired 3 out of 30,000, or NY fired 5 out of 50,000. There's gotta be more than 3 crappy teachers out of 30,000. I had a teacher in high school for Geography that let us watch Jerry Springer every other day. I had a health teacher in middle school that smoked in class. A health teacher ffs. (not my class, but my friend told me she smoked in his class and I'm 99% sure he is telling the truth for a variety of reasons." You know there is a problem with the teacher's union when you can lecture kids about the risks of second hand smoke while smoking in front of them and not lose your job. Pretty much everything you said is completely wrong... I don't even have time to explain to you (from my hall duty) exactly how wrong your information and conclusions are. To be revisited I guess. Quoting someone just to say they are wrong and not backing it up has no meaning whatsoever. You may as well quote him and say "I enjoy eating pickles on Sundays".
Speaking generally, this is only partly true. If some random guy with 1 post makes a post and says "you are wrong" then it's pointless. If the world's foremost expert on a topic makes a post that says "you are wrong" then it's not as good as if they explain... but it's not pointless. If someone I trust in a topic tells me I'm wrong about something on that topic I will rethink it and discuss it in order to figure out the discrepancy. I'm certainly not the worlds' foremost expert on the topic of this thread although I do have some experience with it.
On May 15 2010 02:10 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 01:40 micronesia wrote:B On May 15 2010 01:34 BlackJack wrote:On May 14 2010 16:32 Manifesto7 wrote:On May 14 2010 15:38 AppleTart wrote:
Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
At the end of the day removing her only leaves a vacancy in the system, and the system has shown it is willing to fill the vacancy with people like her. Obviously she has to go, but without addressing the route problems that you stated nothing will change. She isn't unnatural as to be an abberation that won't repeat, she is just unfit for the job, which is a common trait among many people. I agree and a very large problem with the system is that teachers here have almost no accountability to be a good teacher. You mention that being unfit for the job is a common trait among many, and when you look at the statistics for teacher firings, most districts fire maybe 1 out of every 1,000 teachers. Last year Los Angeles fired 3 out of 30,000, or NY fired 5 out of 50,000. There's gotta be more than 3 crappy teachers out of 30,000. I had a teacher in high school for Geography that let us watch Jerry Springer every other day. I had a health teacher in middle school that smoked in class. A health teacher ffs. (not my class, but my friend told me she smoked in his class and I'm 99% sure he is telling the truth for a variety of reasons." You know there is a problem with the teacher's union when you can lecture kids about the risks of second hand smoke while smoking in front of them and not lose your job. Pretty much everything you said is completely wrong... I don't even have time to explain to you (from my hall duty) exactly how wrong your information and conclusions are. To be revisited I guess. Pretty much completely wrong? I'm sure the personal experience part isn't wrong, and I would be very interested in knowing if the stats I cited are wrong. I actually just made them up / paraphrased them from Bill Maher. He had Randi Weingarten on the show. She is the President / former President of some big teacher unions. Word for word he said, "in 2006 3 of 30,000 teachers in NYC were fired. In LA, 11 of 43,000 teachers were fired" and she didn't seem to dispute that at all so I assumed the statistics are not that far off. He asked for her response and she basically gave some bogus political answer like "we are trying harder to get better performance reviews yadda yadda" which is where I drew my conclusion that there isn't a lot of accountability. Anyway her answer really sucked so if you have a better response to my post maybe you should have her job lol. Maybe I am wrong about it being a union thing, but I don't think it's that wrong of a statement to assume teachers are hard to fire. In fact if I read the news correctly the teacher in this video wasn't even fired until the video came out. I wouldn't be too surprised if she wasn't fired if there was no video because kids probably don't like to rat their teachers out since it may effect their grade.
First of all you are 100% right about you being able to describe your personal experiences and whatnot... I meant to say something about that in my response but had no time to really go into detail from my phone (hence the lack of content until now when I got home).
Second of all there are some semantics here... by fired do you include teachers who are let go after one, two, or three years? It's very misleading to say virtually no teachers are fired since most teachers are kicked out of a district within the first three years (in NY, every state is slightly different).
"and a very large problem with the system is that teachers here have almost no accountability to be a good teacher."
This I completely disagree with (more diplomatic way to put it I suppose) since teachers have a tremendous amount of accountability... and it keeps getting more and more. Maybe you know of isolated locations/situations where accountability isn't taken seriously... and it gets worse in places where teaching is less desirable... but teaching is extremely about accountability... especially in the first few years.
"I had a health teacher in middle school that smoked in class."
If you think this is the norm you are SORELY mistaken lol... if I mentioned in passing to a colleague in the possible presence of a student that I smoked at some point in my life I would probably be let go right then and there.... or close to it if you know what I mean. This is not the exception... although again your experience may not be lying.
"I had a teacher in high school for Geography that let us watch Jerry Springer every other day."
See previous... same basic idea. No way in hell lol.
"You know there is a problem with the teacher's union when you can lecture kids about the risks of second hand smoke while smoking in front of them and not lose your job."
The reason why I responded so violently to your previous post was probably because of this poisonous statement. It's not your fault that you don't know better (since you obviously aren't an educator which is ok) but this is a very poisonous statement. Not only have I pointed out that the reasoning is based on incorrect information... but it has nothing to do with the teacher's union. The teacher's unions are completely misunderstood by most but that is another topic.
So why is there such a discrepancy between what we both believe? Aside from what I already said, you have to understand how tenure works and why it's there. Every state is slightly different again, but basically new teachers have a several year probationary period where they have to put up excellent results or they are let go (and I'm not talking about 5 out of 30,000... I haven't done the research for the statistics yet [hard to get reliable information on this due to other factors] but it's a majority). To make it through ~3-4 years without screwing up or having bad results is extremely difficult in most teaching positions... and that's including dozens of observations and other accountability. If you actually manage to make it through, you get tenure which makes it much harder for them to fire you. Districts sometimes have rules that limit if you are entitled to raises or not so you can't completely screw up. Some districts do not. It's rare but occasionally you get terrible teachers (for one reason or another) who are not helping at all. NYC has some rubber rooms where they place tenured teachers in filler positions to get them out of the classroom (with pay) so that they can put more effective teachers in. This is a downside to the tenure system. However, the tenure system is very necessary for reasons that are more important than the downside of paying the few oddballs who fall apart and don't do shit. To justify this claim is a very big/ugly discussion that we could have I suppose but hopefully I successfully given you enough to rethink your approach and come to a more moderate conclusion. Sorry for treating you like a malicious poster when I really meant to just point out that I think you have completely the wrong idea... phone surfing tl is kinda frustrating though.
On May 15 2010 02:21 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 19:44 micronesia wrote:On May 14 2010 13:50 rei wrote:
wow, I don't agree with the teacher's actions, there are much better alternatives than a can of whoop ass. But I can relate to the teacher's anger. She needs to retake her student management classes lol. Oh shit I'd love to take one of those classes! Where do I sign up?? They don't usually offer those in teacher education programs... not that she did one anyway? I'm a teacher, I have been working as a math/science teacher in middle school for the past 2 years. These courses are offer by the school district where I work, some of them are free, some are paid, and some are paid and required by the district. staff development is paid for by the district. So micronesia if you are interested please PM me your resume, I will pass it on to human resource, and once you are hired you will be able to take some of these classes LOL indeed.
Have you seen classes like this in teacher preparation programs or only in-district classes? Who offers them?
On May 15 2010 03:21 InfoDav wrote:
It IS a problem, a known problem. Teachers aren't formed for that. Most of the teachers cursus include AT MOST 2 course about this subject, and it's usually very limited. If it keeps going like that for a long time, there won't be any teachers left, conditions are too bad, salaries are too low.
Hey man, I attended a word-famous teacher education program as an undergrad where I had zero classes on this topic; I am almost done with my masters from another world-famous program and have also not taken any courses on dealing with situations with this. Once my school district paid for me to attend a 4 hour conference on dealing with unmotivated students if that counts... :p
On May 15 2010 07:58 GoodWill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 05:07 Severedevil wrote:
If you're a teacher where >50% of students do not want to be there, do no want to learn, and do not care about grades or their future, you're pretty fucked. It's not an impossible situation, but it's a very bad one that few people are equipped for. hey if the students don't care, the teacher should just give up, go through the course material and be done with it. The ones who get emotionally involved are the ones you know that care about the class. Honestly with so many hands tied behind their back, I wouldn't fault any teacher for not caring and not going that extra mile to motivate these "kids".
I appreciate that you understand the difficulty of what some teachers face but your solution unfortunately isn't sufficient. If the class is too unruly you can't 'just give up and go through the course material' very well. You have to deal with the situation at hand in order to accomplish anything... no way around it and giving up on students is ultimately unacceptable in the eyes of both the community and all of your bosses... believe me I know.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
i beat my students all the time oO
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United States24723 Posts
On May 15 2010 09:45 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
i beat my students all the time oO
Is that before or after you play them in sc?
Is this why you have such big arm muscles?
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Jeez...you can hear one smack loud and crystal clear. Most of it is her trying to get a clear shot while the poor kid is doing a decent job of not letting her. She got a kick and four slaps in from the looks of it (the cam quality wasn't that great but what can you expect from cell phone technology).
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I find this situation to be quite funny from a bystander view observing commentators. Both sides got what was coming to them based on hypocrisy of the internet laws.
If someone shot a video of that boy "teasing" a disabled student without the teacher kicking his ass(that's why the kids were cheering when he was backed in a corner), a vast majority of you would be like "someone needs to beat the shit out of the kid", or "if I was there, I would kick that brat in the balls" and other standard comments seen when commenting on the actions of a rude brat kid.
Now when someone does kick his ass, at least half of that wide majority would be all "Omg, that kid didn't deserve that much! What is wrong with her?"
Just making what I consider to be an interesting observation, not taking sides. That boy nor the teacher deserves no pity. He didn't even get really injured. It was just a case of a crazed high strung teacher one issue away from snapping and a bully who created that one issue.
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I think this can be summarized like this:
1. Some kids really deserve to get beat.
2. But teachers should not beat those kids.
Solution?
There are ALWAYS other ways of dealing with this, how the hell do people expect increased violence to really turn out well? Just because some kids are stupid, doesn't mean the only way they're learn is to beat it into their heads. And on top of all that, you're a TEACHER, not even a parent. I bet that kid's parents would really give that teacher a little of her style of "teaching"...
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United States24723 Posts
On May 15 2010 10:28 Wings wrote:
I think this can be summarized like this:
1. Some kids really deserve to get beat.
2. But teachers should not beat those kids.
Solution?
There are ALWAYS other ways of dealing with this, how the hell do people expect increased violence to really turn out well? Just because some kids are stupid, doesn't mean the only way they're learn is to beat it into their heads. And on top of all that, you're a TEACHER, not even a parent. I bet that kid's parents would really give that teacher a little of her style of "teaching"...
I agree with your point 2. Not sure about 1 but not going to argue about it as that's an issue that's often brought up in other threads. As for your solution? Your solution was 'do not do what this teacher did' which is kind of lackluster.... how would you deal with it? I suggest before you respond that you read the thread in its entirety where I pointed out to about five different individuals who tried to do this that they were being unrealistic.
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Lol this kid is gonna get made fun off by his schoolmates so hard. Edit: Shit was pretty f'd actually she was slamming his head around in a way that was definitely unnecessary. Though he didn't really appear to be all that hurt at the end just scared :\.
i beat my students all the time o.O
Not marketing gosu camp to well there  .
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^Ew, barely beat me out there.
On May 15 2010 09:45 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
i beat my students all the time oO
Keep this in mind people! Although it was noted, there will be one hour beating sessions at Starcraft camp, for the important business of showing you who the freakin boss is.
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On May 15 2010 13:11 DminusTerran wrote:
Lol this kid is gonna get made fun off by his schoolmates so hard.
For that reason I really hope it was effective. Having your ass handed to you by a female teacher while squealing on the floor like a little rat - what a beautiful picture. Kid probably lost the "social status" he has been working on for months trying to bully chicks around him in his class. Teacher becomes instant school legend, kid becomes a notorious pussy. I really hope that even if this teacher will never get to teach again, even if her life goes downhill, in many years from now she will be sitting alone near the fireplace sipping some cognac thinking to herself smiling "damn, that was so worth it".
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On May 15 2010 10:28 Wings wrote:
I think this can be summarized like this:
1. Some kids really deserve to get beat.
2. But teachers should not beat those kids.
Solution?
There are ALWAYS other ways of dealing with this, how the hell do people expect increased violence to really turn out well? Just because some kids are stupid, doesn't mean the only way they're learn is to beat it into their heads. And on top of all that, you're a TEACHER, not even a parent. I bet that kid's parents would really give that teacher a little of her style of "teaching"...
I propose an alternative to your solution. In Australia it's called a "meatpie job". That is, the teacher buys another student a meatpie in exchange for beating the sh*t out of the misbehaving student. Of course this is done away from everyone's eyes after school.
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I lol'ed SO hard.
Clearly staged.
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On May 15 2010 09:45 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
i beat my students all the time oO
I bet you do.
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Have you seen kids these days? They are scum. Some of them deserve a fist to the face.
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EPT
