http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20004788-504083.html I can't believe that woman did that to the little boy. I mean that was like brutal and uncalled for. Some people actually agreed with this in the comments below the article on the website
Wow... there's the video in the link and everything the article states:
"HOUSTON (CBS/KHOU) When their teacher backed one of their classmates into a corner, students at a Houston-area charter school thought it was a joke - but it allegedly turned into a shocking and brutal beating that was caught on tape.
Cell phone video of alleged beating at Houston-area school. (KHOU)
Sherri Davis, a science teacher at Jamie's House Charter School, allegedly backed 13-year-old Isaiah Johnson into a corner and began beating him while his classmates watched.
At the beginning of the video you can hear the laughter and applause from the students as Isaiah is backed into a corner by Davis after Isaiah reportedly teased a female classmate. But Janiqua Johnson, a student who shot the video on her cell phone, says Davis "snapped" and started beating the 13-year-old, according to CBS affiliate KHOU.
The teacher "just started beating him up," Janiqua Johnson told KHOU. "His behavior may have been bad but he didn't deserve that," Johnson said, referring to the teasing that preceded the alleged beating.
Davis was placed on administrative leave when school officials learned of the incident in late April, but was fired Monday when officials saw the video.
"It was horrifying," said Sue Jones, spokesperson for the school. "There's just no other word for that."
Janiqua Johnson and other witnesses told KHOU that four or five school employees were present in the classroom. The students claimed they felt intimidated by some teachers after the video became public.
The school is looking into allegations that other teachers watched the beat-down without stepping in, according to a school spokesperson, and said that it will punish any teachers found to have done that.
The Harris County Sheriff's Department is also investigating the incident, although a spokesperson declined to comment further."
There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
You'd think one slap would be enough lol, that is some psycho shit.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
It's still the teacher's job to prevent these things from happening. If you can't handle kids don't become a teacher.
This women should by shoot in the knes . . . both oft them. I mean does she have any idea how fucking bad it is vor a young boy like this to be beaten by an authority figure?Anyone who has a basic understanding of Pschology knows that stuff like this leads to an increased violent behaviour of the victim. God fuck that makes me angry
i seen worse beatings by teacher when I went mid school in korea... worse part is during my time...when teacher beats us we usually didn't try to cover ourselves..-_-; we just took beatings like men..-_-l;
Don't make fun of other students or one day your teacher might snap and do what your parents should have.
Hopefully, everyone takes a lesson from this. Obviously, teacher was out of line. Still valuable for the student who got rofl stomped. This might result in one less asshole in the world. Be positive.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
It's still the teacher's job to prevent these things from happening. If you can't handle kids don't become a teacher.
Nobody can handle some of the little shits that go through the educational system. Their job is to teach, not act as free childcare for bad parents.
On May 14 2010 05:43 Clamev wrote: This women should by shoot in the knes . . . both oft them. I mean does she have any idea how fucking bad it is vor a young boy like this to be beaten by an authority figure?Anyone who has a basic understanding of Pschology knows that stuff like this leads to an increased violent behaviour of the victim. God fuck that makes me angry
What a bunch of nonsense, a few slaps isn't going to do anything to the kid and definately not make him more violent. All it'll do is make the kid scared as hell whenever he sees the teacher. I've studied psychology for two years by the way.
The most disturbing thing about the video is the number of comments supporting the teacher or saying "we need more of this."
I know how rotten kids can be, especially at that age. I remember once being so unruly that I literally made a teacher curse at me and break down crying. She had to be moved to another class room. I'm ashamed that I drove some one to those lengths, but at the same time I never had any ill will towards the teacher or my fellow students, I just had no idea what impact my behavior was having. I was bored and undisciplined. I expect that this kid is the same way. He probably acts out a lot in class, to the point that his fellow students and his teachers are sick of him, but I have a hard time believing that he has any real malice towards this teacher or even the girl he's teasing.
I don't know what the solution is when kids are showing up to school unable or unwilling to behave, but I'm pretty sure that a full fledged beatdown of a minor who's not even fighting back at all is not the solution. All that kid learned from that if some one mouths off to him in the future, it's okay to beat them down if he's bigger than they are. If a teacher can do it, then why can't a student?
Obviously the teacher is headed to jail. I don't know how I feel about that. I feel bad for any teacher who gets pushed to the brink by undisciplined children, since teachers have no control over the students they get and no real method to discipline them. On the other hand, you obviously can't have teachers just pummeling kids, no matter how unruly, or soon you will have teachers pummeling kids because they didn't do their homework.
Holy crap. That was brutal. Glad the teacher got fired. That is just way to overboard. I know in some schools, there really isn't any good punishment for stuff like bullying but damn.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
Oh boo fucking hoo, the teacher is an adult who not only should be mature enough to deal with little kids simply because they are an adult, but also because its their fucking job
and guess what, if u can't handle that.... quit your job! go somewhere else! don't beat up kids! duh!
naw son-- punches didnt even land. she just wanted to make a point with scaring the shit out of that kid. it just looked like alot of tussling and mild slapping. while it was stupid to even lay a finger on that student, i don't believe she set out to brutally hurt him.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
Oh boo fucking hoo, the teacher is an adult who not only should be mature enough to deal with little kids simply because they are an adult, but also because its their fucking job
We're not talking about someone deciding to throw away their life to hurt someone pissing them off. We're talking about someone who went into a career to help children being driven to a breakdown by spiteful little shits. It's not a question of them acting mature or being adult. That's a ridiculously over simplistic way of looking at it. It's like suggesting that when an beaten wife snaps and buldgeons her husband it's an asassination.
On a related note, the case in the UK which is way worse than this, the teacher got let off because he'd previously complained of stress and the higher ups had done nothing.
On May 14 2010 05:54 itzme_petey wrote: naw son-- punches didnt even land. she just wanted to make a point with scaring the shit out of that kid. it just looked like alot of tussling and mild slapping. while it was stupid to even lay a finger on that student, i don't believe she set out to brutally hurt him.
btw, i think she got her belt from hot topic.
She wanted to KILLL that kid. She was landing, and she was trying to hurt him. She just was very uncoordinated and couldn't physically do it.
On May 14 2010 05:49 Gnaix wrote: some kids deserve that though
Deserved or not it's clearly illegal, even to punish your own kid that way (although lots of people do it, and some times it even scares a kid straight). To lay a hand on some one else's child at all is not tolerated in most places, and to that extent obviously nothing good can come from it. That kid is going to be back to acting like a punk in a few weeks with a new teacher, and that teacher's life is ruined forever. She'll go to jail, she'll never teach again, and as a violent felon she'll have a hard time finding a decent job any place. Was it worth it to scare the kid for a few minutes of his life? I doubt it.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
That was one of the strangest cases i ever read. Cleared of attempted murder and greivous bodily with intent despite hitting a kid over the head with a iron bar whilst screaming 'die die die!'. I think if the case was reversed and a kid had attacked the teacher he'd be in a offenders intitute right now.
Quite frankly if you can't handle a class you shouldn't teach in secondary education. If you're prone to snapping so violently you shouldn't be working with kids full stop.
i dont think the teacher should have gotten into trouble she barely did anything to him and he probably deserved it, the only problem i have with the video is her lack of fighting skills if your going to beat someones ass do it correctly, her anger and lack of ability could have seriously injured him as opposed to just inflicting pain without any long term injuries.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
If you read the article it wasn't the kid bulling the teacher but just a kid calling another girl names. It's not the same
Haha typical teamliquid child beating thread. Zeesh my teacher just dealed with kids by sending them outside, they want to be disruptive they don't want to learn they can just sit outside whole semester and fail the class.
That and i have had some pretty sly teachers in the past you make a smart ass remark they'll make you at you and theirs would tend to be better, then they just get back to teaching disarming your snide remark and getting back on topic with minimal disruption, really teachers should just take a class on telling jokes.
On May 14 2010 05:50 Boblion wrote: Really unprofessional but i wouldn't call that a beating ...
The teacher probably needs to get fired but jail ??? are you kidding ????
No, I'm not kidding. Assault and battery of a minor doesn't seem serious to you?
If it was an adult then simple assault would be the likely charge, and for a first offense, probably not a major penalty since it's considered a misdemeanor in most places, but against a minor by their temporary custodian, you're opening up a whole different can of worms.
P.S.- watch the video and you can see that the kid is on the ground the entire time. Striking some one while they're down or defenseless typically elevates an assault to a felony, regardless of how much harm actually resulted.
I can't believe any of the bigger kids didn't try to fight back to get her off. This is Texas for fucks sake
I don't know what grade this was in, but if something like this happened in our school (well actually i was in multiple schools, but my point still stands), the teacher would get swarmed and get the living shit kicked out of her even by 13-14 year olds.
they both got what they deserved. while the white people are curing cancer and building societies, the black people in Houston just can't seem to get their shit together.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
lol, seriously? adults should be beyond bullying what a weak-minded, insecure teacher you know what happens to kids that do that? they become expelled, and sent to continuation school while jeopardizing their own future/education imagine if i grabbed a metal pipe every time some teenage little brat tried to bully me on the internet, on xbox live/other games, or on the street
i literally laugh and forget about it 10 seconds afterwards i could not care less, because i was the exact same way if i got beaten every time i acted like a little brat in school i'd be dead and in a coffin right now i grew up...and if i saw myself back when i was 12/13 i'd probably be embarrassed, everybody grows up
On May 14 2010 05:43 Clamev wrote: This women should by shoot in the knes . . . both oft them. I mean does she have any idea how fucking bad it is vor a young boy like this to be beaten by an authority figure?Anyone who has a basic understanding of Pschology knows that stuff like this leads to an increased violent behaviour of the victim. God fuck that makes me angry
What a bunch of nonsense, a few slaps isn't going to do anything to the kid and definately not make him more violent. All it'll do is make the kid scared as hell whenever he sees the teacher. I've studied psychology for two years by the way.
the kid could also become traumatized, introverted, self loathing and anti social as well
he was terrified, cornered by an 'adult' trying to hurt him, and probably humiliated while an entire audience is watching him oh and btw hes 13 years old you can't tell me this is going to be good for his psyche
A lot of people don't understand the difference between abuse and disciplining.
For example, when I was little, if I didn't do my hw or did something wrong, my mom would take out a ruler(her weapon of choice) and would hit me with it on the palms/buttocks/calf a few times, and I would get sent to my room. You don't cringe or try to run away cause you are gonna get more hits, you stand there and take it. That's disciplining a kid.
Cornering a kid, then posing like shes jet lee or some shit, then start wailing on the kid's head is abuse.
On May 14 2010 05:50 Boblion wrote: Really unprofessional but i wouldn't call that a beating ...
The teacher probably needs to get fired but jail ??? are you kidding ????
No, I'm not kidding. Assault and battery of a minor doesn't seem serious to you?
If the kid isn't injured i don't think she should go to jail. Fired yes. maybe.
I'm sorry but I wouldn't want someone like that in one of my schools regardless if he got badly hurt or not. Too much of a liability for the school, clearly as kids watch that it can't be good, and lets say as the school board im not paying someone for that. Fired for SURE
People need to realize that he wasn't even provoking her, he was making fun of another girl. Kids make fun of each other all the time, hell even grown people on TL make fun of each other. Apparently she just flipped out and started wailing on him even though he backed up and sank down. He was scared as hell and didn't want to fight clearly. If a boy is picking on a girl send him to time out or tell his parents or maybe send him to the office or something. No need to corner him then wail on him. The tax money goes to teaching, not that shit. As dumb as this may sound, If i wanted to wail on my kid, Id do it myself and not have to pay someone else to do it. Stick to teaching teachers.
What a retarded teacher. There are plenty of teachers out there who single out and discriminate against specific students. They just have the good sense not to be caught on camera physically abusing them.
This kid is gonna be fine. The teacher will likely be flipping burgers or ringing up groceries for the rest of her life. What a dumb woman.
edit: What she did is against the law. She is going to jail. period.
Reading some of those comments on that website are actually making me so angry. I mean how is it "perfectly reasonable discipline" to beat down a child scared and cowered into a corner? The state of some people makes you really think. I bet they'd respond much differently if it was their kid.
if a teacher can actually beat you up, id suggest you hit the gym more. rofl. if your stupid enough to think "oh noes an authority figure, i better do nothing" then you probably deserved it.
On May 14 2010 06:18 jamie wrote: Reading some of those comments on that website are actually making me so angry. I mean how is it "perfectly reasonable discipline" to beat down a child scared and cowered into a corner? The state of some people makes you really think. I bet they'd respond much differently if it was their kid.
For the record, I think it's terrible that this kind of stuff happened. I also think it's inevitable because education is simply used as daycare by bad parents and it's inevitable that people will snap under the immense stress the job can put them under. I can sympathise with teachers who are put in an unwinnable situation and, in the grips of temporary madness, make a mistake that destroys their life.
Well... This kinda shit is expected these days. Parents seem to be unable to raise their kids properly anymore. I don't know what happened before shit hit the fan in this particular case, but whatever the kid did to make the teacher lose any kind of normal sense probably was pretty fucked up too.
I doubt anyone who chooses a teaching career signed up for any of that shit. While any teacher should be able to stand above any kind of provocations made against them by their students and they should always stick to taking whatever appropriate measurements, there definitely is a certain line between teaching kids some discipline and taking over a parent's job to raise a kid. There are fucked up kids to be found in every single school these days.
In general whole article didn't shock me or whatsoever. I'm definitely not defending the teacher; she was totally wrong and most likely shouldn't ever have taken this job, but hey, society is slowly going to shit, nothing new :\
On May 14 2010 06:23 Minzy wrote: if a teacher can actually beat you up, id suggest you hit the gym more. rofl. if your stupid enough to think "oh noes an authority figure, i better do nothing" then you probably deserved it.
That's some really sophisticated legal thinking, your honor.
On May 14 2010 06:25 Smorrie wrote: Well... This kinda shit is expected these days. Parents seem to be unable to raise their kids properly anymore. I don't know what happened before shit hit the fan in this particular case, but whatever the kid did to make the teacher lose any kind of normal sense probably was pretty fucked up too.
I doubt anyone who chooses a teaching career signed up for any of that shit. While any teacher should be able to stand above any kind of provocations made against them by their students and they should always stick to taking whatever appropriate measurements, there definitely is a certain line between teaching kids some discipline and taking over a parent's job to raise a kid. There are fucked up kids to be found in every single school these days.
In general whole article didn't shock me or whatsoever. I'm definitely not defending the teacher; she was totally wrong and most likely shouldn't ever have taken this job, but hey, society is slowly going to shit, nothing new :\
Claiming the youth is out of control is nothing new either.
On May 14 2010 06:25 Smorrie wrote: Well... This kinda shit is expected these days. Parents seem to be unable to raise their kids properly anymore. I doubt anyone who chooses a teaching career signed up for any of that shit. While any teacher should be able to stand above any kind of provocations made against them by their students and they should always stick to taking whatever appropriate measurements, there definitely is a certain line between teaching kids some discipline and taking over a parent's job to raise a kid. There are fucked up kids to be found in every single school these days.
In general whole article didn't shock me or whatsoever. I'm definitely not defending the teacher; she was totally wrong and most likely shouldn't ever have taken this job, but hey, society is slowly going to shit, nothing new :\
The problem is the kid never provoked the teacher but rather was making fun of another child (as kids do regardless even if they are "well raised"). Thats clearly to extreme of a reaction no matter how "fucked up" the kid may have been. I really doubt that kid was like fucked up having sex smoking weed and shit. He was just making fun of another kid because well hes a kid. Grown adults make fun of other adults all the time. Teachers need to teach and do what is needed to establish a good environment for teaching. Removing the kid from class is fine. The beatdown does not help establish that environment in any way. Tax money goes to teaching, not beatdowns. I'll do the beatdown to my own kid for free (not that I would just saying).
tbh he was probably a complete little douche who deserved to get beat up by somebody, and I mean a lot of kids pick away at teachers for the best part of a year and theres nothing teachers can do about it. Plus it was kind of funny when she said that he'd been beaten up by a girl like the one he'd been teasing..
Back in the good old days he'd of just learned his lesson and gone about his business. Actually, back in the old days he'd have been disciplined a year ago and this wouldn't have happened.
At 13 there no real excuse for making other peoples lives harder.
On May 14 2010 05:42 Frits wrote: You'd think one slap would be enough lol, that is some psycho shit.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
It's still the teacher's job to prevent these things from happening. If you can't handle kids don't become a teacher.
Nobody can handle some of the little shits that go through the educational system. Their job is to teach, not act as free childcare for bad parents.
This, the teacher is not a parent if parents can't educate their kids the school should had the power to just send them away or not allown the kid to go in, school might be a right but if you don't follow the rules you shall not expect to be treated by them.
I really honestly cannot believe that people are saying that the kid deserved this. Its just for me unbeliviable. Your a kid at a school and you get a 1 min beatdown by a teacher, that is just so wrong in so many ways. Not saying he is innocent or something, but there is other ways to deal with these situations. I have worked as a teacher myself, and know that all kids arent great, someone is really up in your face trying to scare you, but under no circumstances is it ok to beat up a kid like this.
if this was a 6 feet 200 pound guy smacking this boy around, you would all be outraged, just because she isnt that big doesnt make it ok.
Btw, what is up with her ninjalike approach to the kid? She looked like she tried to mimic Jean-Claude van Damme or something, sneaking up karatestyle ;O
On May 14 2010 05:45 keV. wrote: Don't make fun of other students or one day your teacher might snap and do what your parents should have.
Hopefully, everyone takes a lesson from this. Obviously, teacher was out of line. Still valuable for the student who got rofl stomped. This might result in one less asshole in the world. Be positive.
That makes the teacher the asshole, not the other way around.
On May 14 2010 06:50 Chanted wrote: I really honestly cannot believe that people are saying that the kid deserved this. Its just for me unbeliviable. Your a kid at a school and you get a 1 min beatdown by a teacher, that is just so wrong in so many ways. Not saying he is innocent or something, but there is other ways to deal with these situations. I have worked as a teacher myself, and know that all kids arent great, someone is really up in your face trying to scare you, but under no circumstances is it ok to beat up a kid like this.
if this was a 6 feet 200 pound guy smacking this boy around, you would all be outraged, just because she isnt that big doesnt make it ok.
Btw, what is up with her ninjalike approach to the kid? She looked like she tried to mimic Jean-Claude van Damme or something, sneaking up karatestyle ;O
Most peoples point is that a teacher wouldn't throw away their career unless the kid had done something awful.
The size of the teacher doesn't really come into it and the kid was clearly alright since he gets up at the end of the video.
People snap, and noone should try and break a teacher at 13.
This is the strangest news I have ever heard, extremely fucked up and just stupid. And I can't believe the student got beat up by a women. I know back in middle school the women teachers were afraid us, but then again there was a lot of fist fights in my school.
On May 14 2010 06:50 Chanted wrote: I really honestly cannot believe that people are saying that the kid deserved this. Its just for me unbeliviable. Your a kid at a school and you get a 1 min beatdown by a teacher, that is just so wrong in so many ways. Not saying he is innocent or something, but there is other ways to deal with these situations. I have worked as a teacher myself, and know that all kids arent great, someone is really up in your face trying to scare you, but under no circumstances is it ok to beat up a kid like this.
if this was a 6 feet 200 pound guy smacking this boy around, you would all be outraged, just because she isnt that big doesnt make it ok.
Btw, what is up with her ninjalike approach to the kid? She looked like she tried to mimic Jean-Claude van Damme or something, sneaking up karatestyle ;O
Most peoples point is that a teacher wouldn't throw away their career unless the kid had done something awful.
The size of the teacher doesn't really come into it and the kid was clearly alright since he gets up at the end of the video.
People snap, and noone should try and break a teacher at 13.
The fact that she attacked the kid just proves how much of a despicable piece of shit she is. It's people like her that's wrong with this world. I don't care if she snapped, you don't attack the students, and if I was that student I would have fought back. Obviously she abused her power and thought she would get away with it, but now she's fucked, so the kid is laughing now.
That's AWFUL. I can't understand how someone, let alone a teacher, could do that to a child. And the fact that other adults just stood there and watched? Simply awful.
just saw this on Global News surprised the article doesn't mention the kid was beating up a handicap kid for his money... so the teacher did right imo.. i lied about the money part. but i bet he will never pick on a handicap again.. cus if i catch him ill do it twice as hard ^^, no one fucks with a handicap in front of me and gets away with it.
On May 14 2010 07:00 wishbones wrote: just saw this on Global News surprised the article doesn't mention the kid was beating up a handicap kid for his money... so the teacher did right imo.. i lied about the money part. but i bet he will never pick on a handicap again.. cus if i catch him ill do it twice as hard ^^, no one fucks with a handicap in front of me and gets away with it.
Stupid reason, the teacher should have suspended the student or talk to the principal about it, not act like a delinquent and attack the student, that makes the teacher just as low as the student. As a matter fact that makes the teacher the bully.
On May 14 2010 07:00 wishbones wrote: just saw this on Global News surprised the article doesn't mention the kid was beating up a handicap kid for his money... so the teacher did right imo.. i lied about the money part. but i bet he will never pick on a handicap again.. cus if i catch him ill do it twice as hard ^^, no one fucks with a handicap in front of me and gets away with it.
Kids pick on other kids, don't act like you never picked on anyone for some reason when you were a kid. No need to beat him up that badly either, and if you want to tell the parents of the kid to fix him up. Like I said, parents can give free beatdowns, no need to use my tax money to fund that shit. School is for learning not a place for bad parents to get parenting for their kids. There also can be too much beatdown as well. There was no violence on either side initially, there shouldn't be violence to solve that. Maybe if the kid was wailing on the other kid you should go in and hold him down or something.
The teacher is the bully now, not the kid in the corner. When you are that much older than 13 year old kid, no reason to act that way. I'm surprised you actually think that way. It's not that kid that pick on someone that fucks up the world, it's a world made up of people like that crazy ass teacher beating ppl up for everything that fk up the world.
On May 14 2010 07:00 wishbones wrote: just saw this on Global News surprised the article doesn't mention the kid was beating up a handicap kid for his money... so the teacher did right imo.. i lied about the money part. but i bet he will never pick on a handicap again.. cus if i catch him ill do it twice as hard ^^, no one fucks with a handicap in front of me and gets away with it.
Kids pick on other kids, don't act like you never picked on anyone for some reason when you were a kid. No need to beat him up that badly either, and if you want to tell the parents of the kid to fix him up. Like I said, parents can give free beatdowns, no need to use my tax money to fund that shit. School is for learning not a place for bad parents to get parenting for their kids. There also can be too much beatdown as well. There was no violence on either side initially, there shouldn't be violence to solve that. Maybe if the kid was wailing on the other kid you should go in and hold him down or something.
What does that have to do with bad parenting? This is more about a bad teacher acting like an uncivilized bastard. You say you don't advocate violence but you advocate parental beatdowns? Are you fucking stupid?
Woah shes like an animal, she slowly inches up and then just takes him down and beats him. Seems very unprofessional to beat kids. She should of just sent him to the princibles office or w/e not kick his ass.
On May 14 2010 07:00 wishbones wrote: just saw this on Global News surprised the article doesn't mention the kid was beating up a handicap kid for his money... so the teacher did right imo.. i lied about the money part. but i bet he will never pick on a handicap again.. cus if i catch him ill do it twice as hard ^^, no one fucks with a handicap in front of me and gets away with it.
Kids pick on other kids, don't act like you never picked on anyone for some reason when you were a kid. No need to beat him up that badly either, and if you want to tell the parents of the kid to fix him up. Like I said, parents can give free beatdowns, no need to use my tax money to fund that shit. School is for learning not a place for bad parents to get parenting for their kids. There also can be too much beatdown as well. There was no violence on either side initially, there shouldn't be violence to solve that. Maybe if the kid was wailing on the other kid you should go in and hold him down or something.
What does that have to do with bad parenting? This is more about a bad teacher acting like an uncivilized bastard. You say you don't advocate violence but you advocate parental beatdowns? Are you fucking stupid?
I was just saying, I wouldn't beat my kid down like that, but if ANYTHING (if you approve of child beating) at least let the parent do it for free and don't waste my tax money. It was response to people saying the kid deserved it. Even IF he did (which I don't think he did) its not her job to do it. Read my previous posts sheesh or gtfo of my thread. I stated about 3 times before even if one believes in beatdowns then the argument can be said fine ill give you that if you believe in it so much. Can you not fucking make condescending statements when you weren't even provoked? Are you fucking stupid? You are just like the teacher wanting to start fights lashing out at people before even reading further what they said previously. I'm glad we both agree on the issue, but please, don't attack me like that
This is what happens when the teachers in your society are generally under educated, under performing people who only went into teaching because they cannot make it in other walks of life. And that is in turn caused by both a culture and compensation system which clearly does not reward or respect teaching as a career. As a whole American society places a low value on education of our children, and we get what we pay for.
She's going to get sued, the school is going to get sued, and the teacher will be working at mcdonald's for the rest of her life....Unfortunately, in the end, the texas tax payers are getting screwed.
Not in favour of beating kids obv, but some of them don't get raised by their parents anymore. She should be able to send the kid away and not have him come back next class. I can understand the frustration since you can't choose the kids you work with and some cases are really bad (and getting worse, i notice a lot of young kids arent scared of getting beat up anymore, even when bad mouthing you. I was scared of that when I was young..and it happened too, and correctly so).
But since she snapped, I'll go with her getting fired. No jail or fine, she's just not suitable for the job.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
It's still the teacher's job to prevent these things from happening. If you can't handle kids don't become a teacher.
ive always wondered about this. IMO youd have to be strict from the beginning but youd also have to have the backing of the principle/faculty. The first moment a kid did some disrespectful shit in my class id send them to the hall and then the principles office. I know some of my teachers put up with a lot of shit but there were always the ones no one did anything bad in because they didnt play games with kids.
Dont really get why so many people seem to be chill with kids picking on other kids.
If anything its worse when children picks on children than adults does it on adults. Seing as children can hide behind bullshit like it 'being a game', 'just kidding around' or '(insert name here) was ok with it' while adults cant feign ignorance due to their age.
it's unprofessional (not to mention illegal) for a teacher to beat a student down like that, but the kid probably deserved to have his ass beat by someone.
On May 14 2010 07:28 aseq wrote: But since she snapped, I'll go with her getting fired. No jail or fine, she's just not suitable for the job.
Ya, but regardless of her career, beating children in the United States is illegal. If the kids parents got caught doing this they'd be in just as much trouble.
On May 14 2010 08:20 muzzy wrote: Going to chime in here and support what others have said- You're a teacher. It's your job to deal with kids.
There are other avenues for teachers to pursue if they feel like they have a real problem child that they can't handle.
If you have the type of personality that can just snap and start beating a kid... you shouldn't be in that job.
I would like to respond by saying that if you're the kind of kid that's going to beat up handicapped children, dick around in class and antagonize teachers, you shouldn't be in school.
lmao, she's black. and holy shit that kid was big enough to take on a small woman like that. i would go ape shit on that teacher if she hit me like that.
idk whose side to take since i dont kno the complete story, if the student was asking for it by being a bitch and so be it or teacher can be too angry to make good decisions. dont kno the whole story
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
we are in the US (in the context of this case).
touching a kid implies >$9001 lawsuit doing this means getting fired, then still getting sued by the parents
How many times have you seen videos like this? Say, of 2 kids attacking a homeless man with a bat? Or, 3 girls beating up another? And gotten SOO mad at them. So mad, that you think the only just punishment for them would be to do the exact same thing back to them. IE: attack the attackers with a bat, or jump one of the girls who was jumping the girl, or beating the teacher who beat a kid... Maybe, this teacher had seen this kid beat and fight other kids many many times in just the same manner, and got that sort of visceral reaction that you might get when you watch just this video. I'll admit, its not fair at all. But, you have to acknowledge that sort of thirst for street justice in yourself- because you know its there. When you hear about a parent shaking a baby to death- you think- someone oughta shake them to death. This video, seems to me, like that is what you're looking at here. Someone who decided they were going to snap and pass out their own comeuppance to someone who had done wrong.
Anyone else think the kid deserved it from the description? Although it may seem cruel, if the kid was being the asshole I think he was, kids like those deserves to get beat.
1) Shouldn't someone who is going to snap like this and/or can't hand a class just choose something else besides teaching?
A: Managing a challenging class effectively is very difficult. The lower paying schools in tough areas with uninvolved parents are the place where 'unmanageable' kids are. This happened at a charter school after all (I don't know anything about this one though). There are not enough people fully qualified in this area to fill all of those teaching positions. It's a much more complicated issue than "give the job to someone else if you are going to flip." Most of you in this thread have no idea just how horrible teaching a really 'bad' class is and would be driven to do far worse than her.
2) Why did she react like that to a kid simply teasing a kid?
A: I don't know either but the key thing as pointed out by a few others is that we don't know the whole story from the article and what led up to this event... so all of you making such sweeping assumptions should back off a bit.
3) The teacher should be the mature one in the classroom
A: This wouldn't have happened most likely if the teacher was this kid's personal one on one tutor for the day. Put 30 kids in a room for a year and see how easy it is to deal with it though.
There's probably plenty more I can add but most people stick to their guns on teaching and education related issues and are very difficult to convince of anything.
edit: addendum
4) Why can't you just remove a kid whenever (s)he is misbehaving? If they don't want to learn it's their business.
A: Usually the teacher is required to make them do well on their assessments whether or not the kid/parents are trying at all or care. My state is about to pass a legislation where teacher pay is linked to among other things... student performance. That's gonna make it even HARDER to let the tired ass kid sleep without distracting anyone aside from the fact that you (the teacher) get yelled at for it already :p
On May 14 2010 05:42 Frits wrote: You'd think one slap would be enough lol, that is some psycho shit.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
It's still the teacher's job to prevent these things from happening. If you can't handle kids don't become a teacher.
Nobody can handle some of the little shits that go through the educational system. Their job is to teach, not act as free childcare for bad parents.
No not really, at those ages they only teach trivial things and one of the most important skills for those teachers is being able to handle children.
They just need to bring back school corporal punishment and make it organized. That teacher could of just been, ok, sending you down the principle's office and you are getting wacked with a paddle (with holes in it for less wind resistance I'm sure) across the ass a few times. Instead of going overboard on the student herself.
Granted I grew up after it was made illegal in most US states (still legal in a few) but my dad who is in his late 50s now grew up before they did so. It was fairly prevelent in those days. He said it was never something that felt excessive or anything, but boy did it keep you from stepping out of line.
On May 14 2010 05 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 14 2010 05 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:46 KwarK wrote:
On May 14 2010 05:42 Frits wrote: You'd think one slap would be enough lol, that is some psycho shit.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
It's still the teacher's job to prevent these things from happening. If you can't handle kids don't become a teacher.
Nobody can handle some of the little shits that go through the educational system. Their job is to teach, not act as free childcare for bad parents.
No not really, at those ages they only teach trivial things and one of the most important skills for those teachers is being able to handle children.
What they are learning is not (or should not be) trivial. It may seem like it's trivial from the student perspective going through but it's not. Also I don't understand your point. Students don't really need to learn that much so teachers better be good at making students behave?
"Hey guys, assault and battery from an adult in a position of authority is fine as long as the person on the receiving end of the beatings isn't very nice."
This is why if your going to be a teacher you have to teach the first two years of elementary school, or the last two years of high school. All the years inbetween kids are ass holes, and will drive you crazy.
On May 14 2010 09:39 InToTheWannaB wrote: This is why if your going to be a teacher you have to teach the first two years of elementary school, or the last two years of high school. All the years inbetween kids are ass holes, and will drive you crazy.
Ironically new teachers are usually given the toughest (shitiest) classes :p
I would lose a lot of respect for any adult that I saw losing their temper like that about anything. The fact that she's a teacher losing it towards a student just makes it worse, in my opinion.
On May 14 2010 09:39 InToTheWannaB wrote: This is why if your going to be a teacher you have to teach the first two years of elementary school, or the last two years of high school. All the years inbetween kids are ass holes, and will drive you crazy.
Ironically new teachers are usually given the toughest (shitiest) classes :p
Yup AP teachers when i went though high school were tenured teachers who been at the school a long time, hell my old AP history teacher is a good friend of mine, retired now he was at the school long enough to only teach AP classes which he loved as disruptions are short and students are there to learn.
On May 14 2010 06:02 dicember wrote: wow, she just lost it.
they both got what they deserved. while the white people are curing cancer and building societies, the black people in Houston just can't seem to get their shit together.
Suck my dick five times over thanks. Weren't you banned for racist shit recently you stupid fuck?
Yeah, you did, you wrote this recently, and the mod didn't even perma ban you, (who ever didn't is absolutely insane)
'On May 07 2010 12:17 dicember wrote: apparently, all non-african humans are 1-5% neanderthal.
those genes that they gave to us also made us much smarter than non homosapien-neanderthal hybrids.
now it's official. black people are stupid because they didn't get the neanderthal smart genes.
On May 14 2010 06:02 dicember wrote: wow, she just lost it.
they both got what they deserved. while the white people are curing cancer and building societies, the black people in Houston just can't seem to get their shit together.
Suck my dick five times over thanks. Weren't you banned for racist shit recently you stupid fuck?
Yeah, you did, you wrote this recently, and the mod didn't even perma ban you, (who ever didn't is absolutely insane)
'On May 07 2010 12 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 07 2010 12 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:17 dicember wrote: apparently, all non-african humans are 1-5% neanderthal.
those genes that they gave to us also made us much smarter than non homosapien-neanderthal hybrids.
now it's official. black people are stupid because they didn't get the neanderthal smart genes.
User was temp-banned for 2 days for this post."
You're a piece of shit.
Just ignore his post like the rest of us did and if you really feel strongly, pm a mod with a link to the objectionable post. I usually go to Hot_Bid for my bans but Mani's hammer is always looking for victims.
On May 14 2010 06:02 dicember wrote: wow, she just lost it.
they both got what they deserved. while the white people are curing cancer and building societies, the black people in Houston just can't seem to get their shit together.
That beating was indeed quite wrong. There is a limit to what a teacher can do. I would know, I aspire to be one. I predict in 15 years, our education system will collapse. They have also been firing good tenured teachers due to loopholes, to save on taxes. Short term fixing hooray. Long term death of morality and ability to run the nation.
However, it cannot be denied that children lack the punishment that keeps them in line. That's why America suffers from somewhat apathetic kids who don't take it from ANY authority. I shadow at schools often, and kids will TEST you to see how far they could go. (It's the parents jobs...which I will not comment on.) A lot are great. Some...
Real teachers themselves must keep learning, they cannot punish physically anymore, but there is other ways that are humane. Today I shadowed my old teacher. She is strict, but she never yells. Instead she just adopts a stern voice and laser eyes. That gets the childrens' attention. Then they resolve the problem together Privately so they do not get embarrassed. The children love her. That is the difference between good teachers and the one mentioned in this article.
On May 14 2010 06:02 dicember wrote: wow, she just lost it.
they both got what they deserved. while the white people are curing cancer and building societies, the black people in Houston just can't seem to get their shit together.
wow...that's just horrible... I mean its one thing to do this some in private Catholic schools...but doing this to a 13 year old in a public school is way out of line...
On May 14 2010 10:19 blahman3344 wrote: wow...that's just horrible... I mean its one thing to do this in private schools...but doing this to a 13 year old in a public school is way out of line...
What I don't understand is the people like this that seem to be insinuating that beating a child like that is EVER anything close to okay. Anybody that would ever lose their temper so much that they would beat a child should never be allowed to raise or be anywhere near children.
Bear in mind that I have no problem with level-headed parents spanking their children for discipline, but people that are actually too immature to overcome their own anger problems, and have to physically take out their anger on children, are scum.
I think people are really over emphasizing the amount that this kid was actually "beat down". I mean honestly he was hit only about 3 times and he got up right after that is not what I would call a brutal beat down.
Lol I love the comments on the video itself. They're just so freaking hilarious. People just agreeing with the Teachers actions. Such as, "The video doesn't show what the kid was saying, he could have been leading the teacher on. For all we know, the kid is a sociopathic hudlum who is trying to cause dissent. The teacher did what was necessary"
On May 14 2010 10:19 blahman3344 wrote: wow...that's just horrible... I mean its one thing to do this some in private Catholic schools...but doing this to a 13 year old in a public school is way out of line...
edit: fixed a generality...
Actually corporal punishment is legal in like half the states in the US although it's not really used and in most states it's legal in private schools only, but it's not a beat down like this is there are limits, idiotic none the less to me any time you have to resort to hitting in a society where you have aggressive upon rights and conditions of acting there are better measures, ofc cooler minds prevail.
On May 14 2010 10:19 blahman3344 wrote: wow...that's just horrible... I mean its one thing to do this in private schools...but doing this to a 13 year old in a public school is way out of line...
What I don't understand is the people like this that seem to be insinuating that beating a child like that is EVER anything close to okay. Anybody that would ever lose their temper so much that they would beat a child should never be allowed to raise or be anywhere near children.
Bear in mind that I have no problem with level-headed parents spanking their children for discipline, but people that are actually too immature to overcome their own anger problems, and have to physically take out their anger on children, are scum.
"Anybody that would ever lose their temper so much that they would beat a child should never be allowed to raise or be anywhere near children."
Most parents have moments like that though. Having two children myself, I don't condone beating them. However, your righteous position on people who are "actually too immature to overcome their own anger problems" seems a little off to me. Dealing with babies and children can be the most frustrating experience in your entire life, and can cause even the most reasonable and level headed person to scream with rage. Many times I have horrendously abused my pillow or ridden my bicycle to relieve stress.
That is why when I hear about cases where parents shake their babies and kill them, or throw their babies, I am more sad than angry. The vast majority of people manage to restrain themselves, but the line between the two is pretty thin and sometimes people just react. Most of those people must feel so awful later on I can't even imagine it.
As for the teacher, I am blessed to be in a situation where discipline is not a problem at my high school. My authority as a teacher carries me through most difficult situations. It is unfortunate that the child was beaten, and it is unfortunate that the teacher felt that it was the only way she could deal with the situation.
when the kid got in a crouched position into a corner she should have backed off and let that be that. i know how stressful it must have been for a teacher having to deal with upstart little middle-schoolers who are emotional and read into emotional issues more than is warranted, but that does not justify the MMA ground and pound ghetto fighting that I just saw on that video, and the person should probably be punished for assault on a minor.
I have seen much worse traumatic things go on at a high school that go unpunished. When I was younger, a teacher literally made a girl stand on a desk and ridiculed her in front of an entire classroom of people.
Sigh... this is so sad on so many levels. >_> Teachers need to restrain themselves from going anywhere close to this level of anger. Kids need to be disciplined. God, probably 75% of the kids in America are so spoiled these days... Parents need to discipline their children, make them learn to respect authority more.
Jesus she had an attack of rage, it was a mistake, the kid didn't get any serious injuries and the other issue is why the hell nobody did anything, like that huge fat girl that is shown at the end of the video, she was bigger than the teacher. But hey let's shoot both of her kneecaps like it was suggested by some idiot in this thread, and then do some relative punishment when said poster gets angry and yells at some kid.
On May 14 2010 11:01 a176 wrote: Sometimes you need a good ass kicking to learn respect. This applies to both adults and kids. 7yr olds don't just randomly make snark comments.
How many times do i have to go over respect and fear are two different things...
Here is an easy distinction, if you are a lets say err mafia don are you respected or feared by those who extort.
Would you if you respect someone kill them if you had the chance? No you respect them they gained your admiration. Respect denotes concern for the well being of the person to some extent not some sort of compliance though fear. Fear has no such conditions it's just you fear them so you obey.
And as far as smart ass 7 year olds... Actually they do.. young children don't think in the same way we do, if you ever been around children esp very young children you learn quickly they don't think like we do. Common example is they will sit in front of you while watching tv and think nothing of it, you tell them to move and they probably didn't know they were in your way. A 13 year old depends but generally they are fairly not that smart when it comes to decisions. Hell this lack of "thinking" last till your about 24 for most people why do you think car insure goes down around 24 25, not only psychology shows a change but statistics.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
So you'd be okay with me physically beating your child if he showed me disrespect? That kid looks no older than 10 years old. Nobody deserves a beating like that from a teacher. Most kids need discipline, I don't disagree with that, but it is not the teacher's decision the extent of discipline.
pft, maybe that kid deserved to get beat. In asia, corporeal punishment is the norm, rather than the exception, and just 50 years back, people still beat their kids in america- so why the big shock?
On May 14 2010 12:04 shalafiend wrote: pft, maybe that kid deserved to get beat. In asia, corporeal punishment is the norm, rather than the exception, and just 50 years back, people still beat their kids in america- so why the big shock?
There is a reason why we stopped it's called psychology there are papers published every year in journals about the effects of corporal punishment on kids, with varying degrees a beating such as the one described is defendantly in the category of harmful psychologically.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
So you'd be okay with me physically beating your child if he showed me disrespect? That kid looks no older than 10 years old. Nobody deserves a beating like that from a teacher. Most kids need discipline, I don't disagree with that, but it is not the teacher's decision the extent of discipline.
You're not the father you can't pretend to be the father, and there's a reason why the actual father isn't allowed to be the one to exert justice for his son.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
So you'd be okay with me physically beating your child if he showed me disrespect? That kid looks no older than 10 years old. Nobody deserves a beating like that from a teacher. Most kids need discipline, I don't disagree with that, but it is not the teacher's decision the extent of discipline.
You're not the father you can't pretend to be the father, and there's a reason why the actual father isn't allowed to be the one to exert justice for his son.
I would like this to be clarified by the context of the post this is in response to i believe this is about the farther being able to hit his own son.
but the use of for instead of on causes well confusion.
And with that the use of the word justice makes me feel sorry for any son of yours.
I meant justice as in the father won't be the one to punish the teacher, because rushz0rz implied that someone who empathizes should be the one to hand over the punishment or justice.
On May 14 2010 12:04 shalafiend wrote: pft, maybe that kid deserved to get beat. In asia, corporeal punishment is the norm, rather than the exception, and just 50 years back, people still beat their kids in america- so why the big shock?
Guess what! Taking the social norms from one culture and applying it to another to justify an action is a really really stupid way to argue!
"Mom my teacher cut off my labia today in sex ed class to show what female circumcision is!"
"They do that in Africa all the time. Stop being a baby."
On May 14 2010 12:16 Cloud wrote: I meant justice as in the father won't be the one to punish the teacher, because rushz0rz implied that someone who empathizes should be the one to hand over the punishment or justice.
First of all, I'm not condoning violence against these little (innocent?) schoolchildren, but you must realize that a lot of you guys are very lucky to live where you do. In many neighborhoods, the schools have teachers that are extremely over-stressed, are paid shockingly little, and who also must deal with hundreds of students on a daily basis. The teachers might live in dangerous places, and the inhabitants could be close to being impoverished.
The schools themselves could be sh*tholes as well, with little to no funding provided to some public schools, and little students that run rampant getting on the nerves of their teachers and beyond. This wasn't a one-day incident where the teacher suddenly went crazy and started attacking the pupil (as far as I can see) and might have occurred over a period of years, even. Obviously, something must not be right with the teacher if she just explodes and vents her anger on a little schoolboy, but a jail sentence--à mon avis--would be an incongruous punishment for her "crime" of beating up this boy. I had been expecting some East Asian school incident where the teacher brutally beat a boy, and when I saw that it was an American school (?), I waited for some giant, inhuman blow(s), and saw none.
The teacher should be fired for not only a lack of proper control over her students but also for her personal lack of capacity to deal with this, but at the same time, a jail sentence would be rather absurd if you consider the available facts.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
So you'd be okay with me physically beating your child if he showed me disrespect? That kid looks no older than 10 years old. Nobody deserves a beating like that from a teacher. Most kids need discipline, I don't disagree with that, but it is not the teacher's decision the extent of discipline.
You're not the father you can't pretend to be the father, and there's a reason why the actual father isn't allowed to be the one to exert justice for his son.
You misunderstood me. I'm not saying the father should discipline the teacher. I meant it's not the teachers decision on how to discipline the child, well it is, but only to a very fine extent that are within the bounds of the law. It is ultimately the parent's decision on the extent of discipline their child receives for his wrong doing. I'm sure you would not like other people stepping in, like a teacher, and physically beating your child for teasing another child.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
So you'd be okay with me physically beating your child if he showed me disrespect? That kid looks no older than 10 years old. Nobody deserves a beating like that from a teacher. Most kids need discipline, I don't disagree with that, but it is not the teacher's decision the extent of discipline.
Where did I say anything like that? I disagree with all forms of corporal punishment, especially on children. What a ridiculous straw man.
My point is that teachers are placed in an impossible position, placed under tremendous stress, bullied and abused by their charges and it is inevitable that some will snap. I don't view this as a good thing. But I can recognise that the teacher is by far the biggest victim of this situation.
wow, I don't agree with the teacher's actions, there are much better alternatives than a can of whoop ass. But I can relate to the teacher's anger. She needs to retake her student management classes lol.
Oh wow.... this sure is brutal... I mean I know how you people are saying how it happens all the time in other places in the world like China and all, but this is right here in the United States. This is definitely illegal and I'm sure it's illegal too in most parts of the world. And besides, do you guys really think it's morally correct for a teacher to beat up a student anywhere in the world no matter what the situation is (unless it's a life threatening which is a different story..)? I just felt like the teacher held in all that stress and pressure, never really released it and all it took was this one student to release EVERYTHING to her which I found it sad to happen....
I kinda agree with KwarK and I think Manifesto said it very well. As bad as the video looks I'm guessing she's not just a violent lunatic. She was probably pushed to it and despite the fact that she should've been able to find a better way now she will never be able to get a job as a teacher again. I mean, she didn't do any serious physical harm right?
In the end, she is going to suffer far worse than the kid obviously. And at 13, the kid may very well be aware of that. As for people saying teachers should be able to deal with a classroom full of 13 year olds who have no respect and don't care about learning... Well, teachers are just normal people too, and that is a position that would be ridiculously difficult. The worst school in terms of disobedience still need to have teachers... and I feel really badly for them.
On May 14 2010 14:27 Jonoman92 wrote: I kinda agree with KwarK and I think Manifesto said it very well. As bad as the video looks I'm guessing she's not just a violent lunatic. She was probably pushed to it and despite the fact that she should've been able to find a better way now she will never be able to get a job as a teacher again. I mean, she didn't do any serious physical harm right?
In the end, she is going to suffer far worse than the kid obviously. And at 13, the kid may very well be aware of that. As for people saying teachers should be able to deal with a classroom full of 13 year olds who have no respect and don't care about learning... Well, teachers are just normal people too, and that is a position that would be ridiculously difficult. The worst school in terms of disobedience still need to have teachers... and I feel really badly for them.
The physical harm part is a terrible argument. What if the women were very large and strong? What if it was a very built man? Then the kid might have gotten hurt badly. Just because the woman is physically weak and obviously was terrible at fighting doesn't mean she gets off easy.
Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
On May 14 2010 15:38 AppleTart wrote: Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
At the end of the day removing her only leaves a vacancy in the system, and the system has shown it is willing to fill the vacancy with people like her. Obviously she has to go, but without addressing the route problems that you stated nothing will change. She isn't unnatural as to be an abberation that won't repeat, she is just unfit for the job, which is a common trait among many people.
On May 14 2010 14:27 Jonoman92 wrote: I kinda agree with KwarK and I think Manifesto said it very well. As bad as the video looks I'm guessing she's not just a violent lunatic. She was probably pushed to it and despite the fact that she should've been able to find a better way now she will never be able to get a job as a teacher again. I mean, she didn't do any serious physical harm right?
In the end, she is going to suffer far worse than the kid obviously. And at 13, the kid may very well be aware of that. As for people saying teachers should be able to deal with a classroom full of 13 year olds who have no respect and don't care about learning... Well, teachers are just normal people too, and that is a position that would be ridiculously difficult. The worst school in terms of disobedience still need to have teachers... and I feel really badly for them.
A lot of people seem to forget that teachers are human.
On May 14 2010 13:50 rei wrote: wow, I don't agree with the teacher's actions, there are much better alternatives than a can of whoop ass. But I can relate to the teacher's anger. She needs to retake her student management classes lol.
Oh shit I'd love to take one of those classes! Where do I sign up??
They don't usually offer those in teacher education programs... not that she did one anyway?
I wanted to be a teacher my whole life until I realized the being one is no longer about educating young minds. Now it's about suffering abuse everyday and not being able to do anything about it. Teachers are held to a higher standard than any other profession in the US as far as I can tell and are constantly criticized and have an extreme pressure to be able to handle all things perfectly. Imagine your job required perfection, how much would you expect to get payed? How long do you think you would last?
I like to think that most teachers, like myself, go into the career with the best intentions: to help and to educate. Then, they get blind-sided by all the things they *didn't* consider before going in. There's a lot of posts talking about how a person who is prone to this kind of reaction shouldn't be teaching. Have any of you considered that maybe they never considered themselves to be someone who would do such a thing? That maybe it never crosses their mind that they would have to put up with shit-students prone to abusing others because their wishes and hopes and focus are to do genuine good for others? That they've never had to experience that level of stress before and so have no basis for which to gauge where their breaking point is?
I know quite a few teachers/professors and they generally are the most run-down, unhappy people I have seen (with the occasional exception of kindergarten teachers).
People are quick to judge others without actually thinking about the situation other than what some douchebag with a phone-camera records providing an extremely limited perspective instead of, you know, stepping in or at least saying something.
What the fuck goes through people's minds when their first impulse is to reach for a camera to post the inevitable beatdown on the internet instead of doing something actually helpful in the moment.
I wanted to be a teacher my whole life until I realized the being one is no longer about educating young minds. Now it's about suffering abuse everyday and not being able to do anything about it. Teachers are held to a higher standard than any other profession in the US as far as I can tell and are constantly criticized and have an extreme pressure to be able to handle all things perfectly. Imagine your job required perfection, how much would you expect to get payed? How long do you think you would last?
I like to think that most teachers, like myself, go into the career with the best intentions: to help and to educate. Then, they get blind-sided by all the things they *didn't* consider before going in. There's a lot of posts talking about how a person who is prone to this kind of reaction shouldn't be teaching. Have any of you considered that maybe they never considered themselves to be someone who would do such a thing? That maybe it never crosses their mind that they would have to put up with shit-students prone to abusing others because their wishes and hopes and focus are to do genuine good for others? That they've never had to experience that level of stress before and so have no basis for which to gauge where their breaking point is?
I know quite a few teachers/professors and they generally are the most run-down, unhappy people I have seen (with the occasional exception of kindergarten teachers).
People are quick to judge others without actually thinking about the situation other than what some douchebag with a phone-camera records providing an extremely limited perspective instead of, you know, stepping in or at least saying something.
What the fuck goes through people's minds when their first impulse is to reach for a camera to post the inevitable beatdown on the internet instead of doing something actually helpful in the moment.
You're all fucking diseased.
I agree completely, it's the same thing happening here too. Educating the youngsters must be awesome but take the bullies 24/7 and couldn't do sh*t about it must suck. You can say "don't be a teacher if you can't handle the children" but how can you possibly handle children who trashtalk to you and if you even shout to them they record it to their phone and you are f*cked.
the kid probably deserved it. it's not like the teacher would go apeshit for no reason. i've known many kids that could have used a good beating or two.
To the people saying he was a child, he was 13. Not 10, not 7. He was harassing another student and knowing how people like him were at that age, had probably caused earlier disruption in the classroom. I don't think the teacher should have lost just for the sake that she lost her job over some cocky little shit.
I do agree with his ass getting handed to him. You're not a child at 13, you're 2 years away from being able to drive (with adult supervision) and taking other peoples lives in your hands. If a beating is what it took to teach him a little respect (and people saying it's fear not respect, you knew your dad could kick your ass when you were a kid regardless of whether or not he did that make you fear him or respect him?). Anyway, point is that he's close enough to being a man to be shown what happens to men when they are disrespectful to others.
He was harassing a girl, in the real world when you harass a woman you're likely to get your ass beat. He learned a valuable lesson that day.
That wasn't a beating btw. You people have no idea what a beating is if you think getting smacked around a few times is a beating.
Surely she could've just put him in detention, called his parents, sent him to the principal, suspended him, whatever. Beating him was such a dumb decision and will probably just screw him up even more.
On May 14 2010 15:38 AppleTart wrote: Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
At the end of the day removing her only leaves a vacancy in the system, and the system has shown it is willing to fill the vacancy with people like her. Obviously she has to go, but without addressing the route problems that you stated nothing will change. She isn't unnatural as to be an abberation that won't repeat, she is just unfit for the job, which is a common trait among many people.
It's always easier to pin a scape goat and say it was a "few bad apples" than actually address what's going on. By the time it happens again and people realize it's systemic, the administrators will have moved on to new jobs.
She was ONLY fired? I.e., not arrested? That is what's fucked up.
What's also fucked up is that what allegedly set off the savage assault was that the kid was "teasing" a girl, i.e., a boy acting naturally. Brainwashing males to be submissive before the female starts early in our society, and is accomplished by some ugly methods.
Incidentally, it takes a strong male authority figure to bring order to these unruly inner city classrooms. A man would simply not have had to resort to violence, under any circumstances.
I lived in the hood until the end of highschool, so I would like to remind everyone that midschool is a nightmare for the teachers who aren't lucky enough to be affected in the good destricts. Each day some of them are facing a crowd of arrogant and violent kids prowd of their ignorance, therefore it is unavoidable that incidents like this one will sometimes happen, teachers are humans after all.
Once the administration will truely be allowed to dismiss from school all the fucktards, it wouldn't necessarily resolve every problems, but everything will go far better.
On May 14 2010 21:04 maps wrote: Surely she could've just put him in detention, called his parents, sent him to the principal, suspended him, whatever. Beating him was such a dumb decision and will probably just screw him up even more.
Detention often doesn't work. Calling parents is often all but useless. Sending him to the principal can work or it can be a good way to piss your boss off. There most likely were other ways for her to prevent that.... but it's very difficult to do, especially while trying to control a big group of students.
People posting about how teachers should be able to "rise above" it all are seriously misguided, its not like a teacher gets called a cunt and suddenly goes on a beating spree. Its day after day after day kids mentally breaking down these teachers till they snap. If you havent experienced a difficult classroom of kids as a teacher you have no fucking idea what you are talking about, its just about the most horrible thing I've ever experienced.
Having spent time in a inner city school, you know what. I am not really against this. Is it wrong? I don't know if it's illegal in that state to have corporal punishment but the kid did deserve it. What's this allegedly teased a student? It sounds like the kid was having a good time making fun of a another child who had a disability. I'd of hit um too.
Children these day's have no respect in some cases, they don't want to come to school, they are literally only in school because they have to go. So how do you think someone is going to act if they do not want to be their? At the very least they just waste space at the worst, they act out, disrupt and in general make it harder to teach. Particularly problem students like the child in this video pushes teachers to the edge, and no class or course can prepare you for that. You can not just say "Oh well if he/she couldn't handle the stress he shouldn't be teaching." I really don't think you understand just how bad some of these children can be. We are not talking about 7-8 year olds it's teens acting up. These kids blatantly push and push and you know what, the school's don't care, the parents don't care and that leaves teachers holding the bag.
Aren't there other disciplinary methods, supensions, expulsions ? I know corporal punishment is out of the question in western world schools, but there's alot of alternatives. You want to make fun of kids with disabilities ? Have fun staying in elementary school for 20 years :D
On May 14 2010 05:44 Hawk wrote: But... I thought Texans wanted teachers to beat their kids if necessary to keep them in line??
Amazing cause and effect transition. Basically the system that you are protecting caused this to happen and you are raging about physical punishment out of nowhere which actually didn't cause this at all (it's the opposite). Some twisted ways of providing a point, basically insulting your own intelligence rofl.
Probably beating this child while he still had a small chance to evolve into a human being would have taught him to be respectful.
No one even knows what exactly this kid did before teacher snapped and how long he was doing it for.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
Funny how you compare this case to anything else, thats what alot of people do. But its wrong. What in this case makes you have more sympathie for the teacher? I dont wanna hear anything that the kid did some bully joke about females, coz that doesnt matter a bit. She coulda done something else, she lost her job because there is something seriously wrong with her. She lost her job because every actions has it consequences and she is responsible for them herself. So, u got sympathie for her? Then you my friend, are fucked up aswell. If that was yor kid, would you say: hey son, u only got beat a few times, poor teacher, poor teacher. Im sure your kid would smash your face in a few years later.
On May 15 2010 00:32 Ganondorf wrote: Aren't there other disciplinary methods, supensions, expulsions ? I know corporal punishment is out of the question in western world schools, but there's alot of alternatives. You want to make fun of kids with disabilities ? Have fun staying in elementary school for 20 years :D
Teachers are discouraged from referring students often for discplinary action. The illusion of lots of alternatives is common among those who don't teach.
Not to say that management is impossible... but it's often quite difficult.
Schools can't threaten to fail kids since they won't.... they lose funding etc if the do. The kids know they won't get held back for being assholes..
I think I may have been on the side of "That was brutal, fire her!" side of the issue, but since I've started teaching school, it brings a new perspective to the world of the classroom. I wouldn't EVER excuse her actions, as they are completely unacceptable, but at this point in my life - I can TOTALLY understand where she was coming from. Very sad.
On May 14 2010 15:38 AppleTart wrote: Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
At the end of the day removing her only leaves a vacancy in the system, and the system has shown it is willing to fill the vacancy with people like her. Obviously she has to go, but without addressing the route problems that you stated nothing will change. She isn't unnatural as to be an abberation that won't repeat, she is just unfit for the job, which is a common trait among many people.
I agree and a very large problem with the system is that teachers here have almost no accountability to be a good teacher. You mention that being unfit for the job is a common trait among many, and when you look at the statistics for teacher firings, most districts fire maybe 1 out of every 1,000 teachers. Last year Los Angeles fired 3 out of 30,000, or NY fired 5 out of 50,000. There's gotta be more than 3 crappy teachers out of 30,000.
I had a teacher in high school for Geography that let us watch Jerry Springer every other day. I had a health teacher in middle school that smoked in class. A health teacher ffs. (not my class, but my friend told me she smoked in his class and I'm 99% sure he is telling the truth for a variety of reasons."
You know there is a problem with the teacher's union when you can lecture kids about the risks of second hand smoke while smoking in front of them and not lose your job.
On May 14 2010 15:38 AppleTart wrote: Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
At the end of the day removing her only leaves a vacancy in the system, and the system has shown it is willing to fill the vacancy with people like her. Obviously she has to go, but without addressing the route problems that you stated nothing will change. She isn't unnatural as to be an abberation that won't repeat, she is just unfit for the job, which is a common trait among many people.
I agree and a very large problem with the system is that teachers here have almost no accountability to be a good teacher. You mention that being unfit for the job is a common trait among many, and when you look at the statistics for teacher firings, most districts fire maybe 1 out of every 1,000 teachers. Last year Los Angeles fired 3 out of 30,000, or NY fired 5 out of 50,000. There's gotta be more than 3 crappy teachers out of 30,000.
I had a teacher in high school for Geography that let us watch Jerry Springer every other day. I had a health teacher in middle school that smoked in class. A health teacher ffs. (not my class, but my friend told me she smoked in his class and I'm 99% sure he is telling the truth for a variety of reasons."
You know there is a problem with the teacher's union when you can lecture kids about the risks of second hand smoke while smoking in front of them and not lose your job.
Pretty much everything you said is completely wrong... I don't even have time to explain to you (from my hall duty) exactly how wrong your information and conclusions are. To be revisited I guess.
On May 14 2010 15:38 AppleTart wrote: Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
At the end of the day removing her only leaves a vacancy in the system, and the system has shown it is willing to fill the vacancy with people like her. Obviously she has to go, but without addressing the route problems that you stated nothing will change. She isn't unnatural as to be an abberation that won't repeat, she is just unfit for the job, which is a common trait among many people.
I agree and a very large problem with the system is that teachers here have almost no accountability to be a good teacher. You mention that being unfit for the job is a common trait among many, and when you look at the statistics for teacher firings, most districts fire maybe 1 out of every 1,000 teachers. Last year Los Angeles fired 3 out of 30,000, or NY fired 5 out of 50,000. There's gotta be more than 3 crappy teachers out of 30,000.
I had a teacher in high school for Geography that let us watch Jerry Springer every other day. I had a health teacher in middle school that smoked in class. A health teacher ffs. (not my class, but my friend told me she smoked in his class and I'm 99% sure he is telling the truth for a variety of reasons."
You know there is a problem with the teacher's union when you can lecture kids about the risks of second hand smoke while smoking in front of them and not lose your job.
Pretty much everything you said is completely wrong... I don't even have time to explain to you (from my hall duty) exactly how wrong your information and conclusions are. To be revisited I guess.
Quoting someone just to say they are wrong and not backing it up has no meaning whatsoever. You may as well quote him and say "I enjoy eating pickles on Sundays".
On May 14 2010 15:38 AppleTart wrote: Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
At the end of the day removing her only leaves a vacancy in the system, and the system has shown it is willing to fill the vacancy with people like her. Obviously she has to go, but without addressing the route problems that you stated nothing will change. She isn't unnatural as to be an abberation that won't repeat, she is just unfit for the job, which is a common trait among many people.
I agree and a very large problem with the system is that teachers here have almost no accountability to be a good teacher. You mention that being unfit for the job is a common trait among many, and when you look at the statistics for teacher firings, most districts fire maybe 1 out of every 1,000 teachers. Last year Los Angeles fired 3 out of 30,000, or NY fired 5 out of 50,000. There's gotta be more than 3 crappy teachers out of 30,000.
I had a teacher in high school for Geography that let us watch Jerry Springer every other day. I had a health teacher in middle school that smoked in class. A health teacher ffs. (not my class, but my friend told me she smoked in his class and I'm 99% sure he is telling the truth for a variety of reasons."
You know there is a problem with the teacher's union when you can lecture kids about the risks of second hand smoke while smoking in front of them and not lose your job.
Pretty much everything you said is completely wrong... I don't even have time to explain to you (from my hall duty) exactly how wrong your information and conclusions are. To be revisited I guess.
Pretty much completely wrong? I'm sure the personal experience part isn't wrong, and I would be very interested in knowing if the stats I cited are wrong. I actually just made them up / paraphrased them from Bill Maher. He had Randi Weingarten on the show. She is the President / former President of some big teacher unions. Word for word he said, "in 2006 3 of 30,000 teachers in NYC were fired. In LA, 11 of 43,000 teachers were fired" and she didn't seem to dispute that at all so I assumed the statistics are not that far off. He asked for her response and she basically gave some bogus political answer like "we are trying harder to get better performance reviews yadda yadda" which is where I drew my conclusion that there isn't a lot of accountability. Anyway her answer really sucked so if you have a better response to my post maybe you should have her job lol. Maybe I am wrong about it being a union thing, but I don't think it's that wrong of a statement to assume teachers are hard to fire. In fact if I read the news correctly the teacher in this video wasn't even fired until the video came out. I wouldn't be too surprised if she wasn't fired if there was no video because kids probably don't like to rat their teachers out since it may effect their grade.
On May 14 2010 13:50 rei wrote: wow, I don't agree with the teacher's actions, there are much better alternatives than a can of whoop ass. But I can relate to the teacher's anger. She needs to retake her student management classes lol.
Oh shit I'd love to take one of those classes! Where do I sign up??
They don't usually offer those in teacher education programs... not that she did one anyway?
I'm a teacher, I have been working as a math/science teacher in middle school for the past 2 years. These courses are offer by the school district where I work, some of them are free, some are paid, and some are paid and required by the district. staff development is paid for by the district. So micronesia if you are interested please PM me your resume, I will pass it on to human resource, and once you are hired you will be able to take some of these classes
On May 15 2010 00:32 Ganondorf wrote: Aren't there other disciplinary methods, supensions, expulsions ? I know corporal punishment is out of the question in western world schools, but there's alot of alternatives. You want to make fun of kids with disabilities ? Have fun staying in elementary school for 20 years :D
Teachers are discouraged from referring students often for discplinary action. The illusion of lots of alternatives is common among those who don't teach.
Not to say that management is impossible... but it's often quite difficult.
Schools can't threaten to fail kids since they won't.... they lose funding etc if the do. The kids know they won't get held back for being assholes..
That was a private school ? Sorry we don't have too many of those in Italy or Europe in general. School is (still) public here and you can take all disciplinary actions you want, even month long suspensions, and if it's not obligatory school, expulsions without caring for funding. When i went to school (well that's quite a few years back(13 i think), but i guess it's still that way) you could get rejected in school for bad behavior, and after 3 years, automatic expulsion would occur. I guess Obama has to start working at public school a little now that you have universal sanitation.
This is pretty terrible to see. The surrounding circumstances that made this teacher snap must have been rather well established for something like this to happen. She needs to be fired but like many have already mentioned, this leaves a gap that needs to be filled. Teachers are underpaid and under appreciated for the amount of shit they have to traul through every year.
She obviously over-reacted, and it was innappropriate. She has to be fired. Some jail maybe.
However, you can kid yourself all year long all your life, it doesn't change the fact that teachers nowadays are alot more disrespected on by students. (Hell, there is even examples of this in this thread...)
It's common nowadays for students to beat teachers whether psychologically or physically. Students spit on their teachers, they beat them, they insult them, alot more frequently than 20 years ago.
It IS a problem, a known problem. Teachers aren't formed for that. Most of the teachers cursus include AT MOST 2 course about this subject, and it's usually very limited. If it keeps going like that for a long time, there won't be any teachers left, conditions are too bad, salaries are too low.
And yes, sadly, it's probably due to bad parenting for most of the time. Alot of families nowadays can't have the luxury to have 1 parent there 100% of the time to raise a children. And we can see the results.
On May 14 2010 05:52 M155_G33k wrote: Holy crap. That was brutal. Glad the teacher got fired. That is just way to overboard. I know in some schools, there really isn't any good punishment for stuff like bullying but damn.
Brutal?
The kid got slapped for shits sake. Yes the teacher should have been fired but please stop acting like the child will be emotionally scarred for the rest of his life.
His teacher was doing what his parents should have done from the start honestly. The kid was being a little shit.
If that was my kid I would've demanded a written apology from the school, a face to face apology from the teacher to my child and her resignation. I'd also give my kid a damn good whack on the arse before making them to apologise face to face to the child they were bullying. At 13 they are intelligent enough to understand right from wrong and own up to their mistakes.
Sure some people will probably QQ over what I'm saying but I'm a firm believer in strong parenting. It builds good character and helps raise healthy adults.
he shoulda pulled guard...if your gonna drop on your back like that you better have some sick submissions...its the 21st century and kids are walking around without a ground game.
On May 14 2010 05:52 M155_G33k wrote: Holy crap. That was brutal. Glad the teacher got fired. That is just way to overboard. I know in some schools, there really isn't any good punishment for stuff like bullying but damn.
Brutal?
The kid got slapped for shits sake. Yes the teacher should have been fired but please stop acting like the child will be emotionally scarred for the rest of his life.
His teacher was doing what his parents should have done from the start honestly. The kid was being a little shit.
I would generally disagree with what you are saying but I was hospitalised by some asshole recently who fucked me up pretty bad but I'm all good now... I doubt this kid even had bruises.
I think her actions were unacceptable and she deserves to lose her job and face some jail time for assaulting a minor, but we shouldn't exaggerate the severity of the attack.
I know this was already posted but THIS IS BRUTAL LOL
On May 14 2010 21:26 HnR)hT wrote: She was ONLY fired? I.e., not arrested? That is what's fucked up.
What's also fucked up is that what allegedly set off the savage assault was that the kid was "teasing" a girl, i.e., a boy acting naturally. Brainwashing males to be submissive before the female starts early in our society, and is accomplished by some ugly methods.
Incidentally, it takes a strong male authority figure to bring order to these unruly inner city classrooms. A man would simply not have had to resort to violence, under any circumstances.
You dont even got a slightest clue as of how severe the ''teasing' was.
Secondly allthough more male authority figures would help i call bullshit on that thing about men not resorting to violence.
Hell if violence actually breaks out with a male teacher id expect the beatdown to be far worse than if it was a female teacher.
Not a very informative article regarding the events building up to the incident but I think the majority will agree there is not enough order and effective punishment in schools today, it's very easy to just overlook the problems and say "it you can't deal with it get another job", an easy braindead answer to a difficult problem in today's society. Being slapped on the ground isn't my idea of what the article refers to as a shocking horryfying brutal attack, the worst part for the young chap involved would be having it carried out in front of those he was bullying
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
Funny how you compare this case to anything else, thats what alot of people do. But its wrong. What in this case makes you have more sympathie for the teacher? I dont wanna hear anything that the kid did some bully joke about females, coz that doesnt matter a bit. She coulda done something else, she lost her job because there is something seriously wrong with her. She lost her job because every actions has it consequences and she is responsible for them herself. So, u got sympathie for her? Then you my friend, are fucked up aswell. If that was yor kid, would you say: hey son, u only got beat a few times, poor teacher, poor teacher. Im sure your kid would smash your face in a few years later.
It's funny how you dismiss comparisons to similiar cases, that's what a lot of people do. BUT IT'S WRONG!! Obviously hitting children isn't acceptable. I can't believe I'm still having to explain my position but whatever, let's go again. Hitting children is bad. Choosing to hit a child is bad. However having a violent breakdown in a high stress job while suffering from bullying and given inadequate support and training is understandable. It's not good. I don't want breakdowns. I don't think she should be rewarded for having a breakdown. I'm saying I don't hold her entirely accountable for her actions because there were mitigating circumstances. You my friend, are fucked up as well. I'm not sure why but it seems to be something you believe constitutes a valid point so I'll tack it onto whatever else I'm saying, regardless of relevance. I'm sure some kid should smash your car up.
If you're a teacher where >50% of students do not want to be there, do no want to learn, and do not care about grades or their future, you're pretty fucked. It's not an impossible situation, but it's a very bad one that few people are equipped for.
On May 14 2010 21:26 HnR)hT wrote: She was ONLY fired? I.e., not arrested? That is what's fucked up.
What's also fucked up is that what allegedly set off the savage assault was that the kid was "teasing" a girl, i.e., a boy acting naturally. Brainwashing males to be submissive before the female starts early in our society, and is accomplished by some ugly methods.
Incidentally, it takes a strong male authority figure to bring order to these unruly inner city classrooms. A man would simply not have had to resort to violence, under any circumstances.
Hell if violence actually breaks out with a male teacher id expect the beatdown to be far worse than if it was a female teacher.
This is not to do with gender, but often people with a greater ability to hurt others (large/strong, or trained in violence) are taught greater restraint and control.
On May 15 2010 05:07 Severedevil wrote: If you're a teacher where >50% of students do not want to be there, do no want to learn, and do not care about grades or their future, you're pretty fucked. It's not an impossible situation, but it's a very bad one that few people are equipped for.
hey if the students don't care, the teacher should just give up, go through the course material and be done with it. The ones who get emotionally involved are the ones you know that care about the class. Honestly with so many hands tied behind their back, I wouldn't fault any teacher for not caring and not going that extra mile to motivate these "kids".
On May 14 2010 15:38 AppleTart wrote: Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
At the end of the day removing her only leaves a vacancy in the system, and the system has shown it is willing to fill the vacancy with people like her. Obviously she has to go, but without addressing the route problems that you stated nothing will change. She isn't unnatural as to be an abberation that won't repeat, she is just unfit for the job, which is a common trait among many people.
I agree and a very large problem with the system is that teachers here have almost no accountability to be a good teacher. You mention that being unfit for the job is a common trait among many, and when you look at the statistics for teacher firings, most districts fire maybe 1 out of every 1,000 teachers. Last year Los Angeles fired 3 out of 30,000, or NY fired 5 out of 50,000. There's gotta be more than 3 crappy teachers out of 30,000.
I had a teacher in high school for Geography that let us watch Jerry Springer every other day. I had a health teacher in middle school that smoked in class. A health teacher ffs. (not my class, but my friend told me she smoked in his class and I'm 99% sure he is telling the truth for a variety of reasons."
You know there is a problem with the teacher's union when you can lecture kids about the risks of second hand smoke while smoking in front of them and not lose your job.
Pretty much everything you said is completely wrong... I don't even have time to explain to you (from my hall duty) exactly how wrong your information and conclusions are. To be revisited I guess.
Quoting someone just to say they are wrong and not backing it up has no meaning whatsoever. You may as well quote him and say "I enjoy eating pickles on Sundays".
Speaking generally, this is only partly true. If some random guy with 1 post makes a post and says "you are wrong" then it's pointless. If the world's foremost expert on a topic makes a post that says "you are wrong" then it's not as good as if they explain... but it's not pointless. If someone I trust in a topic tells me I'm wrong about something on that topic I will rethink it and discuss it in order to figure out the discrepancy. I'm certainly not the worlds' foremost expert on the topic of this thread although I do have some experience with it.
On May 14 2010 15:38 AppleTart wrote: Being stressed is true, but a lot of jobs are stressful and if you can't take it, then get out. It says further that she never even had a teaching license because in California for charter schools you don't need one. She wasn't even trained to teach.
The kid may be completely scared of teachers for the rest of his life and have a lot of development problems. He obviously was CORNERED, watch the video and he sunk down so scared. It's not that he was hitting her, he was trying to hide and she just ripped the desk away from him. She was violent and should not be in the school system. Good riddance.
At the end of the day removing her only leaves a vacancy in the system, and the system has shown it is willing to fill the vacancy with people like her. Obviously she has to go, but without addressing the route problems that you stated nothing will change. She isn't unnatural as to be an abberation that won't repeat, she is just unfit for the job, which is a common trait among many people.
I agree and a very large problem with the system is that teachers here have almost no accountability to be a good teacher. You mention that being unfit for the job is a common trait among many, and when you look at the statistics for teacher firings, most districts fire maybe 1 out of every 1,000 teachers. Last year Los Angeles fired 3 out of 30,000, or NY fired 5 out of 50,000. There's gotta be more than 3 crappy teachers out of 30,000.
I had a teacher in high school for Geography that let us watch Jerry Springer every other day. I had a health teacher in middle school that smoked in class. A health teacher ffs. (not my class, but my friend told me she smoked in his class and I'm 99% sure he is telling the truth for a variety of reasons."
You know there is a problem with the teacher's union when you can lecture kids about the risks of second hand smoke while smoking in front of them and not lose your job.
Pretty much everything you said is completely wrong... I don't even have time to explain to you (from my hall duty) exactly how wrong your information and conclusions are. To be revisited I guess.
Pretty much completely wrong? I'm sure the personal experience part isn't wrong, and I would be very interested in knowing if the stats I cited are wrong. I actually just made them up / paraphrased them from Bill Maher. He had Randi Weingarten on the show. She is the President / former President of some big teacher unions. Word for word he said, "in 2006 3 of 30,000 teachers in NYC were fired. In LA, 11 of 43,000 teachers were fired" and she didn't seem to dispute that at all so I assumed the statistics are not that far off. He asked for her response and she basically gave some bogus political answer like "we are trying harder to get better performance reviews yadda yadda" which is where I drew my conclusion that there isn't a lot of accountability. Anyway her answer really sucked so if you have a better response to my post maybe you should have her job lol. Maybe I am wrong about it being a union thing, but I don't think it's that wrong of a statement to assume teachers are hard to fire. In fact if I read the news correctly the teacher in this video wasn't even fired until the video came out. I wouldn't be too surprised if she wasn't fired if there was no video because kids probably don't like to rat their teachers out since it may effect their grade.
First of all you are 100% right about you being able to describe your personal experiences and whatnot... I meant to say something about that in my response but had no time to really go into detail from my phone (hence the lack of content until now when I got home).
Second of all there are some semantics here... by fired do you include teachers who are let go after one, two, or three years? It's very misleading to say virtually no teachers are fired since most teachers are kicked out of a district within the first three years (in NY, every state is slightly different).
"and a very large problem with the system is that teachers here have almost no accountability to be a good teacher."
This I completely disagree with (more diplomatic way to put it I suppose) since teachers have a tremendous amount of accountability... and it keeps getting more and more. Maybe you know of isolated locations/situations where accountability isn't taken seriously... and it gets worse in places where teaching is less desirable... but teaching is extremely about accountability... especially in the first few years.
"I had a health teacher in middle school that smoked in class."
If you think this is the norm you are SORELY mistaken lol... if I mentioned in passing to a colleague in the possible presence of a student that I smoked at some point in my life I would probably be let go right then and there.... or close to it if you know what I mean. This is not the exception... although again your experience may not be lying.
"I had a teacher in high school for Geography that let us watch Jerry Springer every other day."
See previous... same basic idea. No way in hell lol.
"You know there is a problem with the teacher's union when you can lecture kids about the risks of second hand smoke while smoking in front of them and not lose your job."
The reason why I responded so violently to your previous post was probably because of this poisonous statement. It's not your fault that you don't know better (since you obviously aren't an educator which is ok) but this is a very poisonous statement. Not only have I pointed out that the reasoning is based on incorrect information... but it has nothing to do with the teacher's union. The teacher's unions are completely misunderstood by most but that is another topic.
So why is there such a discrepancy between what we both believe? Aside from what I already said, you have to understand how tenure works and why it's there. Every state is slightly different again, but basically new teachers have a several year probationary period where they have to put up excellent results or they are let go (and I'm not talking about 5 out of 30,000... I haven't done the research for the statistics yet [hard to get reliable information on this due to other factors] but it's a majority). To make it through ~3-4 years without screwing up or having bad results is extremely difficult in most teaching positions... and that's including dozens of observations and other accountability. If you actually manage to make it through, you get tenure which makes it much harder for them to fire you. Districts sometimes have rules that limit if you are entitled to raises or not so you can't completely screw up. Some districts do not. It's rare but occasionally you get terrible teachers (for one reason or another) who are not helping at all. NYC has some rubber rooms where they place tenured teachers in filler positions to get them out of the classroom (with pay) so that they can put more effective teachers in. This is a downside to the tenure system. However, the tenure system is very necessary for reasons that are more important than the downside of paying the few oddballs who fall apart and don't do shit. To justify this claim is a very big/ugly discussion that we could have I suppose but hopefully I successfully given you enough to rethink your approach and come to a more moderate conclusion. Sorry for treating you like a malicious poster when I really meant to just point out that I think you have completely the wrong idea... phone surfing tl is kinda frustrating though.
On May 14 2010 13:50 rei wrote: wow, I don't agree with the teacher's actions, there are much better alternatives than a can of whoop ass. But I can relate to the teacher's anger. She needs to retake her student management classes lol.
Oh shit I'd love to take one of those classes! Where do I sign up??
They don't usually offer those in teacher education programs... not that she did one anyway?
I'm a teacher, I have been working as a math/science teacher in middle school for the past 2 years. These courses are offer by the school district where I work, some of them are free, some are paid, and some are paid and required by the district. staff development is paid for by the district. So micronesia if you are interested please PM me your resume, I will pass it on to human resource, and once you are hired you will be able to take some of these classes
LOL indeed.
Have you seen classes like this in teacher preparation programs or only in-district classes? Who offers them?
On May 15 2010 03:21 InfoDav wrote: It IS a problem, a known problem. Teachers aren't formed for that. Most of the teachers cursus include AT MOST 2 course about this subject, and it's usually very limited. If it keeps going like that for a long time, there won't be any teachers left, conditions are too bad, salaries are too low.
Hey man, I attended a word-famous teacher education program as an undergrad where I had zero classes on this topic; I am almost done with my masters from another world-famous program and have also not taken any courses on dealing with situations with this. Once my school district paid for me to attend a 4 hour conference on dealing with unmotivated students if that counts... :p
On May 15 2010 05:07 Severedevil wrote: If you're a teacher where >50% of students do not want to be there, do no want to learn, and do not care about grades or their future, you're pretty fucked. It's not an impossible situation, but it's a very bad one that few people are equipped for.
hey if the students don't care, the teacher should just give up, go through the course material and be done with it. The ones who get emotionally involved are the ones you know that care about the class. Honestly with so many hands tied behind their back, I wouldn't fault any teacher for not caring and not going that extra mile to motivate these "kids".
I appreciate that you understand the difficulty of what some teachers face but your solution unfortunately isn't sufficient. If the class is too unruly you can't 'just give up and go through the course material' very well. You have to deal with the situation at hand in order to accomplish anything... no way around it and giving up on students is ultimately unacceptable in the eyes of both the community and all of your bosses... believe me I know.
Jeez...you can hear one smack loud and crystal clear. Most of it is her trying to get a clear shot while the poor kid is doing a decent job of not letting her. She got a kick and four slaps in from the looks of it (the cam quality wasn't that great but what can you expect from cell phone technology).
I find this situation to be quite funny from a bystander view observing commentators. Both sides got what was coming to them based on hypocrisy of the internet laws.
If someone shot a video of that boy "teasing" a disabled student without the teacher kicking his ass(that's why the kids were cheering when he was backed in a corner), a vast majority of you would be like "someone needs to beat the shit out of the kid", or "if I was there, I would kick that brat in the balls" and other standard comments seen when commenting on the actions of a rude brat kid.
Now when someone does kick his ass, at least half of that wide majority would be all "Omg, that kid didn't deserve that much! What is wrong with her?"
Just making what I consider to be an interesting observation, not taking sides. That boy nor the teacher deserves no pity. He didn't even get really injured. It was just a case of a crazed high strung teacher one issue away from snapping and a bully who created that one issue.
Solution? There are ALWAYS other ways of dealing with this, how the hell do people expect increased violence to really turn out well? Just because some kids are stupid, doesn't mean the only way they're learn is to beat it into their heads. And on top of all that, you're a TEACHER, not even a parent. I bet that kid's parents would really give that teacher a little of her style of "teaching"...
On May 15 2010 10:28 Wings wrote: I think this can be summarized like this:
1. Some kids really deserve to get beat.
2. But teachers should not beat those kids.
Solution? There are ALWAYS other ways of dealing with this, how the hell do people expect increased violence to really turn out well? Just because some kids are stupid, doesn't mean the only way they're learn is to beat it into their heads. And on top of all that, you're a TEACHER, not even a parent. I bet that kid's parents would really give that teacher a little of her style of "teaching"...
I agree with your point 2. Not sure about 1 but not going to argue about it as that's an issue that's often brought up in other threads. As for your solution? Your solution was 'do not do what this teacher did' which is kind of lackluster.... how would you deal with it? I suggest before you respond that you read the thread in its entirety where I pointed out to about five different individuals who tried to do this that they were being unrealistic.
Lol this kid is gonna get made fun off by his schoolmates so hard. Edit: Shit was pretty f'd actually she was slamming his head around in a way that was definitely unnecessary. Though he didn't really appear to be all that hurt at the end just scared :\.
On May 15 2010 09:45 {88}iNcontroL wrote: i beat my students all the time oO
Keep this in mind people! Although it was noted, there will be one hour beating sessions at Starcraft camp, for the important business of showing you who the freakin boss is.
On May 15 2010 13:11 DminusTerran wrote: Lol this kid is gonna get made fun off by his schoolmates so hard.
For that reason I really hope it was effective. Having your ass handed to you by a female teacher while squealing on the floor like a little rat - what a beautiful picture. Kid probably lost the "social status" he has been working on for months trying to bully chicks around him in his class. Teacher becomes instant school legend, kid becomes a notorious pussy. I really hope that even if this teacher will never get to teach again, even if her life goes downhill, in many years from now she will be sitting alone near the fireplace sipping some cognac thinking to herself smiling "damn, that was so worth it".
On May 15 2010 10:28 Wings wrote: I think this can be summarized like this:
1. Some kids really deserve to get beat.
2. But teachers should not beat those kids.
Solution? There are ALWAYS other ways of dealing with this, how the hell do people expect increased violence to really turn out well? Just because some kids are stupid, doesn't mean the only way they're learn is to beat it into their heads. And on top of all that, you're a TEACHER, not even a parent. I bet that kid's parents would really give that teacher a little of her style of "teaching"...
I propose an alternative to your solution. In Australia it's called a "meatpie job". That is, the teacher buys another student a meatpie in exchange for beating the sh*t out of the misbehaving student. Of course this is done away from everyone's eyes after school.
On May 15 2010 19:50 Brad wrote: Have you seen kids these days? They are scum. Some of them deserve a fist to the face.
Even though there is some legit discussion about how kids are different/worse today than yesteryear... you do realize that people ALWAYS say this right?
On May 15 2010 19:50 Brad wrote: Have you seen kids these days? They are scum. Some of them deserve a fist to the face.
Even though there is some legit discussion about how kids are different/worse today than yesteryear... you do realize that people ALWAYS say this right?
No they don't.
the guy has a good point , assault is an extremely high percentage of crimes. This is obvioulsy a little odd but like he said i'm sure (even though it is very wrong to hit a kid especially a strangers kid) these little fucks were pushing her to the limit - lets rename this thread "extremely annoying nasty little fucks push teacher to the limit" and then see.
On May 15 2010 19:50 Brad wrote: Have you seen kids these days? They are scum. Some of them deserve a fist to the face.
Even though there is some legit discussion about how kids are different/worse today than yesteryear... you do realize that people ALWAYS say this right?
No they don't.
the guy has a good point , assault is an extremely high percentage of crimes. This is obvioulsy a little odd but like he said i'm sure (even though it is very wrong to hit a kid especially a strangers kid) these little fucks were pushing her to the limit - lets rename this thread "extremely annoying nasty little fucks push teacher to the limit" and then see.
dont deny peoples opinions based on hear say.
It doesn't matter what the kid does or says, you never do something like this, it's assault plain and simple.
This is just a really rash action without any thinking. If a kid behaves like a real douche then you punish them like such. Physical beatings just isn't appropriate in the 21st century.
On May 15 2010 19:50 Brad wrote: Have you seen kids these days? They are scum. Some of them deserve a fist to the face.
Even though there is some legit discussion about how kids are different/worse today than yesteryear... you do realize that people ALWAYS say this right?
No they don't.
the guy has a good point , assault is an extremely high percentage of crimes. This is obvioulsy a little odd but like he said i'm sure (even though it is very wrong to hit a kid especially a strangers kid) these little fucks were pushing her to the limit - lets rename this thread "extremely annoying nasty little fucks push teacher to the limit" and then see.
dont deny peoples opinions based on hear say.
It doesn't matter what the kid does or says, you never do something like this, it's assault plain and simple.
This is just a really rash action without any thinking. If a kid behaves like a real douche then you punish them like such. Physical beatings just isn't appropriate in the 21st century.
I'm not sure I understand why Physical "beatings" is any less appropriate today than it was not even 2 decades ago.
The only problem with the kid getting slapped is that it wasn't his parent doing it to him...like they should have to begin with.
Getting hit isn't going to traumatize a kid for the rest of their lives okay? It just doesn't work that way.
On May 15 2010 19:50 Brad wrote: Have you seen kids these days? They are scum. Some of them deserve a fist to the face.
Even though there is some legit discussion about how kids are different/worse today than yesteryear... you do realize that people ALWAYS say this right?
No they don't.
the guy has a good point , assault is an extremely high percentage of crimes. This is obvioulsy a little odd but like he said i'm sure (even though it is very wrong to hit a kid especially a strangers kid) these little fucks were pushing her to the limit - lets rename this thread "extremely annoying nasty little fucks push teacher to the limit" and then see.
dont deny peoples opinions based on hear say.
It doesn't matter what the kid does or says, you never do something like this, it's assault plain and simple.
This is just a really rash action without any thinking. If a kid behaves like a real douche then you punish them like such. Physical beatings just isn't appropriate in the 21st century.
I'm not sure I understand why Physical "beatings" is any less appropriate today than it was not even 2 decades ago.
The only problem with the kid getting slapped is that it wasn't his parent doing it to him...like they should have to begin with.
Getting hit isn't going to traumatize a kid for the rest of their lives okay? It just doesn't work that way.
That's some very interesting assumptions, besides she wasn't slapping him, as I saw it looked like a closed fist AND she kicked him in the back.
The reason a physical beating isnt appropriate today is because we're more civilized then we were back 2 decades ago. But then I've always thought that violence does not solving anything, even if it's from his own parents.
On May 14 2010 05:45 keV. wrote: Don't make fun of other students or one day your teacher might snap and do what your parents should have.
Hopefully, everyone takes a lesson from this. Obviously, teacher was out of line. Still valuable for the student who got rofl stomped. This might result in one less asshole in the world. Be positive.
If teachers don't have the emotional stability and self control to put up with whiny brats (which I admit, is a pretty damn hard thing to have), they have no business being a school teacher. If someone doesn't feel like they can tolerate children acting like this, they should teach at a higher level. Teach at a community college or university. Its not like people are entitled to be a teacher and that kids should be expected to behave better. Obviously I feel that kids SHOULD behave better, but you gotta consider the situation for what it is right now.
I also think that teachers plain and simply need to be paid more money. I live in the most wealthy area in Oregon, and our schools have the best paid teachers in the state. Yet even so, they cap out at like 60-70K/year. I think its just that a lot of people who would make great teachers, and would love to be great teachers, choose not to because the money isn't good enough. In my opinion, every teacher should not only require a Masters Degree, but they should also be paid much more. It should take a good person to be a teacher, and they should be rewarded for it.
On May 14 2010 20:59 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: the world is backwards when a kid gets a well deserved roughing up and the person handing it out gets fired to save the schools public image
Quoting and seconding.
While I won't go into the entire psychological aspect of child beating here, as that's still far too circumstantial, opinionated and unsettled to actually draw solid conclusions from, what I will mention is the lack of context. What we see is some chick beating up a kid - of course the natural reaction is "Holy shit, this chick is crazy - poor kid!", since what you see is an adult beating up a relatively defenseless kid. But reading the article, this is obviously not a "random beating" of a "defenseless kid", but a targeted emotional release at someone who had caused these emotions to be built up in the first place. In other words, the kid has probably been acting like a shit towards the teacher/s and/or his co-students, and finally got what was coming for him. If he had not been a prick in the time leading up to this, the teacher wouldn't have flipped out, lost control and started beating him.
The reactions in this thread mirror the reasons for this perfectly - "Oh, poor kid, crazy woman! She should be put in jail! It's an outrage! Defenseless kid, brutal teacher! Oh the horror!" People seems to follow a romanticized image of children, where they are defenseless, innocent and harmless beings, who we need to shield from harm. Of course, children are anything but harmless and innocent - they are underdeveloped physically and mentally, sure, and are not yet prepared for independent life, sure - but that does not mean they are not able to manipulate or hurt others, physically or mentally, with intent to cause harm. "But our children," some might say, "they're the future! They're innocent, they shouldn't have to suffer the fear of beatings!", which in turn leads to stricter rules in all child-caring parts of life, leading to no corporal punishment in school for misdemeanor. Some children, having the potential for hurting others, will use the leniency to their advantage, since there is no real punishment or consequence for it - maybe they'll get a detention, or get scolded, but the severity of these punishments are all light, as nobody wants to traumatize the child. The threat of this punishment is all sociological though - detention or scolding all want to make a person an "outcast in society", showing that you do not fit in with the "accepted way of things" - wether or not you will feel this punishment is up to wether or not you care about your place in society. With no real punishment, the children will lose respect for their authority figures since their actions are without real consequences, leading to escalated behaviour - the teasing will get worse, and the attempts from their teachers to make them stop, will be met with more resistance.
On the flipside, corporal punishment hits something a lot more primal - the threat to your flesh is not, like the mental threats of detention and scolding, targeted at modern social structuring, but rather at your very being, your physical self, which is something you WILL feel the effect of, wether you care about your place in the world or not. Unlike mental disciplining, it is not something you can shrug off or ignore, because physical pain is so much more real than words or threats of social pariahness.
Of course, like every other form of authority, it needs to be used with restraint. If everyone gets beaten for the tiniest overstep, the threat will lose its strenght as it is inevitable, but if it is used only in the most extreme cases, the threat will grow in strenght and keep those who need to be checked, in line, reaffirming some authority.
If teachers were allowed to slap about kids showing extreme disrespect, chances are, a lot less would show the disrespect or need the beatings at all. The threat, as well as the random display of force would be enough to keep them in line, without constantly terrorizing them with the potential of reprecussions due to moderate behaviour.
But of course, if parents actually raised their kids properly themselves instead of expecting to piggyback off social institutions in the first place, this wouldn't be a problem, so meh.
On May 15 2010 19:50 Brad wrote: Have you seen kids these days? They are scum. Some of them deserve a fist to the face.
Even though there is some legit discussion about how kids are different/worse today than yesteryear... you do realize that people ALWAYS say this right?
No they don't.
the guy has a good point , assault is an extremely high percentage of crimes. This is obvioulsy a little odd but like he said i'm sure (even though it is very wrong to hit a kid especially a strangers kid) these little fucks were pushing her to the limit - lets rename this thread "extremely annoying nasty little fucks push teacher to the limit" and then see.
dont deny peoples opinions based on hear say.
So the adults of 1980 didn't complain about how kids in 1980 were worse than the adults were 20-30 years prior? How are you concluding that?
On May 16 2010 05:14 Mohdoo wrote: If teachers don't have the emotional stability and self control to put up with whiny brats (which I admit, is a pretty damn hard thing to have), they have no business being a school teacher.
This has already been addressed in the thread... you should go back and make sure you read everything on this topic as some others explained the problem with that line of thought pretty well. Besides, if you admit it's very hard to do what that teacher needed to do then who should have been doing it?
On May 16 2010 09:33 Kare wrote: If that had been me, that teacher would not have had many teeth left.
Wow so badass. You are like person number 10 to say "IN THAT SITUATION I'D TEAR THAT TEACHER A NEW ONE." Yes obviously if someone is attacking you you can defend yourself. Also, when an authority figure attacks you, it puts you in a difficult psychological situation and this is all very interesting but were you really trying to spark such a discussion?
On May 16 2010 09:33 Kare wrote: If that had been me, that teacher would not have had many teeth left.
Wow so badass. You are like person number 10 to say "IN THAT SITUATION I'D TEAR THAT TEACHER A NEW ONE." Yes obviously if someone is attacking you you can defend yourself. Also, when an authority figure attacks you, it puts you in a difficult psychological situation and this is all very interesting but were you really trying to spark such a discussion?
Have you seen classes like this in teacher preparation programs or only in-district classes? Who offers them?
You are right, they don't prepare us enough during preparation programs I remember only 1 of such course during my graduate program, basically shits they talked about were dividing acting out student behavior into 7 stages and what to do during each stages to prevent further escalation of student behavior. There is no experimentation on how to recognize these stages in real scenario, because each student and each case is different, there is no systematic way of handling students. The class for me only served as a guideline on what is expected of the teacher.
On the other hand, when you have your own class to mess around with, you can test what works and what does not by documenting encounters and test out strategies they teach during the district classes. Of course the result varies too, some works some don't, hit and miss, just have to keep trying and not get frustrated.
Sad that the kid couldnt defend himself lol. I actually find it funny that he's gonna pick on a girl who couldn't defend herself but then he cries like a bitch when someone bigger does something to him.
On May 14 2010 05:42 KwarK wrote: There was a similar case in the UK recently where a group of kids decided to collectively bully their teacher while secretly filming it to see how far they'd have to go and try and get a funny reaction. The guy snapped, grabbed a metal weight thingy and started smashing one of the most annoying ones in the head screaming "die!". Kids can often bully teachers terribly. In this case the student just got hit a few times while the teacher lost their career and marketable skill. I have more sympathy for the teacher.
Funny how you compare this case to anything else, thats what alot of people do. But its wrong. What in this case makes you have more sympathie for the teacher? I dont wanna hear anything that the kid did some bully joke about females, coz that doesnt matter a bit. She coulda done something else, she lost her job because there is something seriously wrong with her. She lost her job because every actions has it consequences and she is responsible for them herself. So, u got sympathie for her? Then you my friend, are fucked up aswell. If that was yor kid, would you say: hey son, u only got beat a few times, poor teacher, poor teacher. Im sure your kid would smash your face in a few years later.
It's funny how you dismiss comparisons to similiar cases, that's what a lot of people do. BUT IT'S WRONG!! Obviously hitting children isn't acceptable. I can't believe I'm still having to explain my position but whatever, let's go again. Hitting children is bad. Choosing to hit a child is bad. However having a violent breakdown in a high stress job while suffering from bullying and given inadequate support and training is understandable. It's not good. I don't want breakdowns. I don't think she should be rewarded for having a breakdown. I'm saying I don't hold her entirely accountable for her actions because there were mitigating circumstances. You my friend, are fucked up as well. I'm not sure why but it seems to be something you believe constitutes a valid point so I'll tack it onto whatever else I'm saying, regardless of relevance. I'm sure some kid should smash your car up.
Yes you are pretty right thus far, yet I do think she is responsible for all her actions, no matter what circumstances she had, I would have understood if he just slapped him across the face or something, but she looked like she was mentally unstable.
And yes some kid did smash up my car, unlucky for him I saw him doing it and broke his fingers to give him a lesson, but I dont get caught on tape.
I've been in situations where hitting a child would have made me temporarily feel better. It's really annoying when some kids just don't listen. I mostly blame parents if this happens. It takes self-control to keep oneself from doing that. Even more so to not even think about the option of using physical force.
That was seroiusly nothing. How do you think it was when your parents grew up?
Nowadays everything is considered brutal. I always think of the Simpsons episode when the Reverends wife is screaming "SOMEBODY plz plz THINK OF THE CHILDREN". This irony is just awesome in Simpsons
Love how people are whining about the psychological effects this could have. "He COULD become violent! He could become introverted or depressed!" He probably already was! I'm willing to bet that a kid who drives their teacher to beat them on camera in front of his class is already fucked in the head. All of these "but the child's psychology..!" comments are pure speculation, but that's another matter. One other thing- if this were an adult fighting another adult because s/he was insulted even once, people would have no problem with it. A kid harasses an adult for what was possibly years, so the adult finally blows up and kind of slaps him a bit, and this bitch deserves to die! The kid is thirteen- he knows what he's doing. They were recording it all on camera ffs.
I feel pretty sorry for the teacher, just because middle school kids are like fucking animals and most of them deserve this sort of shit. I don't want to see them getting seriously injured, but to say this video is brutal is laughable. The kid might have a slightly bruised face ... whoopee, that's nothing. There are fights at schools every day that are much, much worse. He didn't really take any clean hits, and even if he did it's only from a woman. And while you guys see one side of the story and say shit like "I can't believe the teacher has done this!" you clearly aren't taking into account the thousands of teachers who develop depression or simply grow to hate their own lives because of these awful kids and the shit they do.
What the teacher did was clearly idiotic. I pity her, but in the same way I pity idiots. Take control of your damn classes. If I were a middle school teacher I'd be yelling at kids constantly, threatening them with punishment, etc. Some of my teachers did that. Those were the ones who weren't stressed out. Your job is to teach, not to be their friends: teaching them well is better for them in the long run anyways, even if you're very strict. So yes I think it's perfectly acceptable for her to be fired for this because she clearly isn't fit for the job (there aren't many who are, in actuality). On the other hand, you have to feel sorry for her for obvious reasons: to call this "brutal" is a huge exaggeration. I doubt the kid even bled or bruised much. If it were a man, or even a female who knew how to fight, this could have been brutal. Instead, it's just depressing and stupid.
The reason a physical beating isnt appropriate today is because we're more civilized then we were back 2 decades ago.
More civilized? sigh. I guess removing corporal punishment from schools is a measure of our civility as human beings.
On May 18 2010 05:54 unknown.sam wrote: wow seemed like the teacher may have been teased a little too much when she was growing up. poor kid man, that's so traumatic.
Fuck the kid he must behave if he doesn't hes gonna get a lot of beatings in his life and this was just the first one...
This kind of ppl get their asses beat down quite often... she may have save his ass
On May 18 2010 04:33 InDaHouse wrote: That was seroiusly nothing. How do you think it was when your parents grew up?
Nowadays everything is considered brutal. I always think of the Simpsons episode when the Reverends wife is screaming "SOMEBODY plz plz THINK OF THE CHILDREN". This irony is just awesome in Simpsons
That's cauz of feminism. Damn those woman, if they had stayed in the kitchen, then we could have sex drogs & alcohol where ever we wanted...
You free them from their prison, and they thanks you by taking your balls away.
PS/ Seriously, I don't understand you who are defending that teacher. What do you think, that she is the victim? She is an adult, she has full responsability other what she do, UNLIKE A FREEKING 12 OLD BOY! No matter what you think, no matter your "what if he was really violent" "what if he teased her for days"... she is an adult and she must take responsability. When you choose to be a teacher, you accept it is not an easy job (in some way), because you will eventually face violent kids trying to test their limits. I usually like to think that there is more physical contact in a good fight than in a big hug. So I'm not against a good beating from time to time, it help you grow as you confront reality, but not from a teacher dammit!
honestly, i just don't care. the teacher is going to be punished, and because of how public this is, the punishment is likely going to be very severe. Much worse things happen every day, and i just cant bring myself to care even a little bit about this.
no we don't, we would have fail fail fail if we did, because the ability to open a can of ass whooping has nothing to say about why the student's behavior is wrong. The only thing a can of whoop ass would do for the kid is to help him recognize a cause-effect relationship between his ass getting whoop and his mouth running big. Which has nothing to do with teaching of reasoning and critical thinking about why he should not run his mouth.
On May 18 2010 07:44 dangots0ul wrote: i'd love to debate anyone who thinks the teacher was justified. it would just b to ezpz
Hasn't one of the major talking points of this thread been that we lack sufficient information/context to know what the heck led up to this? How the heck would you argue this in either direction? Besides, most if not all people who are saying they understand why the teacher did it aren't saying it was a good decision by the teacher or anything...
On May 18 2010 06:26 ArKaDo wrote: When you choose to be a teacher, you accept that it is not an easy job (in some way),
I basically agree with what you said (neutral on hitting in general) but... what did you mean by that?
Well, a noobenglish habit of putting that everywhere. I learned english in montreal, it's hard to follow there is like 3 pakistaneses and 2 chineses disturbing you each time you say a word the good way.
On May 18 2010 06:26 ArKaDo wrote: When you choose to be a teacher, you accept that it is not an easy job (in some way),
I basically agree with what you said (neutral on hitting in general) but... what did you mean by that?
Well, a noobenglish habit of putting that everywhere. I learned english in montreal, it's hard to follow there is like 3 pakistaneses and 2 chineses disturbing you each time you say a word the good way.
On May 18 2010 06:26 ArKaDo wrote: When you choose to be a teacher, you accept that it is not an easy job (in some way),
I basically agree with what you said (neutral on hitting in general) but... what did you mean by that?
Well, a noobenglish habit of putting that everywhere. I learned english in montreal, it's hard to follow there is like 3 pakistaneses and 2 chineses disturbing you each time you say a word the good way.
I'm joking !
Er I meant the bolded part not the word that...
You think working as a teacher is harder than being a cleaner in hospital or working like shit in a mcdonald? There is way worst job... in my country you work like between 10 & 18 hours a week as a teacher, depending on your grade. It's not a hard job for me.
That's why i added in some ways... teacher is hard because you can face difficult realities, violence from child, etc. But on the same time it's pretty easy jobs, without any physical part (except when you beat a child that is) and a job that is respected in our society.
On May 18 2010 06:26 ArKaDo wrote: When you choose to be a teacher, you accept that it is not an easy job (in some way),
I basically agree with what you said (neutral on hitting in general) but... what did you mean by that?
Well, a noobenglish habit of putting that everywhere. I learned english in montreal, it's hard to follow there is like 3 pakistaneses and 2 chineses disturbing you each time you say a word the good way.
I'm joking !
Er I meant the bolded part not the word that...
You think working as a teacher is harder than being a cleaner in hospital or working like shit in a mcdonald? There is way worst job... in my country you work like between 10 & 18 hours a week as a teacher, depending on your grade. It's not a hard job for me.
That's why i added in some ways... teacher is hard because you can face difficult realities, violence from child, etc. But on the same time it's pretty easy jobs, without any physical part (except when you beat a child that is) and a job that is respected in our society.
ps: sry about the misunderstanding.
I think our language differences are causing me to misunderstand your subtext. Your explanation helped.. no I haven't made any claim about which jobs are better or worse.
When you say 'hard' job, what do you mean?
Also, teaching in France is 10 to 18 hours of work? Which aspects of work does that include? It sounds great but too good to be true
On May 18 2010 06:26 ArKaDo wrote: When you choose to be a teacher, you accept that it is not an easy job (in some way),
I basically agree with what you said (neutral on hitting in general) but... what did you mean by that?
Well, a noobenglish habit of putting that everywhere. I learned english in montreal, it's hard to follow there is like 3 pakistaneses and 2 chineses disturbing you each time you say a word the good way.
I'm joking !
Er I meant the bolded part not the word that...
You think working as a teacher is harder than being a cleaner in hospital or working like shit in a mcdonald? There is way worst job... in my country you work like between 10 & 18 hours a week as a teacher, depending on your grade. It's not a hard job for me.
That's why i added in some ways... teacher is hard because you can face difficult realities, violence from child, etc. But on the same time it's pretty easy jobs, without any physical part (except when you beat a child that is) and a job that is respected in our society.
ps: sry about the misunderstanding.
I think our language differences are causing me to misunderstand your subtext. Your explanation helped.. no I haven't made any claim about which jobs are better or worse.
When you say 'hard' job, what do you mean?
Also, teaching in France is 10 to 18 hours of work? Which aspects of work does that include? It sounds great but too good to be true
hard job, well it's pretty "hard" to respond to that. A job can be hard physically (lot of hour of work, lot of physical task like for exemple working in a car factory ?) and mentally (like a lof of hour of work with little respect from your superiors or co workers, no friends or so, repeatitiv action with no place for individualities, etc.).
Well, There is different type of contracts in france for teachers. The one we call "contratuels" (contractors) are those who have contract for 1 years from september to June, with two month where you are unemployed but still got a little paid. They work 18 hours a week at the school, by that i mean 18 hours with kids in class. They can correct their copies and such in their house. There is not a lot of contractors but the government are using them more and more as years past since they cost less, work more and are easily fired.
Then there is normal teachers who are "fonctionnaire" (which mean they work for the state) and have a special contract where they almost cannot be fired (if they are in the syndicate, well even a pedophile cannot get fired lol, i'm exagerating a little bit there but that's the spirit). They work like 16 hours a week, are paid more and have a certain number of advantage. To be such teacher you must pass a difficult exam called CAPES with what 70-100 slots a year something like that.
Lastly, the one we called "aggrégés" (aggregate) are the one who pass the "agregation", a really difficult exam with 10 place a year or so, and have 8-9 hours a week of work.
All the time i refer to the time they pass in the school, in class with the kids, not the correction of copies or the time you spend to contact parents or the time you spend with kids outside class individually. Well all these advantage are more and more critized by some party, like during the election, people argued that they should stay 35 hours a week in the school (35h is the legal duration of work a week in france). The actual government is reducing the number of teacher (that's why there is so few slot in the CAPES or for the agregation).
Well I'm not that sure about everything i say there, since i'm not a teacher, but i'm pretty sure most is true (since i have a lot of friend who are teachers actually and I am always arguing with them about the fact that they have an easy jobs and should stop whining all the time, have a little respect for others who work 2 or 3 time what they work).
On May 18 2010 06:26 ArKaDo wrote: When you choose to be a teacher, you accept that it is not an easy job (in some way),
I basically agree with what you said (neutral on hitting in general) but... what did you mean by that?
Well, a noobenglish habit of putting that everywhere. I learned english in montreal, it's hard to follow there is like 3 pakistaneses and 2 chineses disturbing you each time you say a word the good way.
I'm joking !
Er I meant the bolded part not the word that...
You think working as a teacher is harder than being a cleaner in hospital or working like shit in a mcdonald? There is way worst job... in my country you work like between 10 & 18 hours a week as a teacher, depending on your grade. It's not a hard job for me.
That's why i added in some ways... teacher is hard because you can face difficult realities, violence from child, etc. But on the same time it's pretty easy jobs, without any physical part (except when you beat a child that is) and a job that is respected in our society.
ps: sry about the misunderstanding.
I think our language differences are causing me to misunderstand your subtext. Your explanation helped.. no I haven't made any claim about which jobs are better or worse.
When you say 'hard' job, what do you mean?
Also, teaching in France is 10 to 18 hours of work? Which aspects of work does that include? It sounds great but too good to be true
hard job, well it's pretty "hard" to respond to that. A job can be hard physically (lot of hour of work, lot of physical task like for exemple working in a car factory ?) and mentally (like a lof of hour of work with little respect from your superiors or co workers, no friends or so, repeatitiv action with no place for individualities, etc.).
Yeah exactly, I totally agree with you. I think it's important we clear this up before talking about types of jobs in this manner.
Well, There is different type of contracts in france for teachers. The one we call "contratuels" (contractors) are those who have contract for 1 years from september to June, with two month where you are unemployed but still got a little paid. They work 18 hours a week at the school, by that i mean 18 hours with kids in class. They can correct their copies and such in their house. There is not a lot of contractors but the government are using them more and more as years past since they cost less, work more and are easily fired.
Then there is normal teachers who are "fonctionnaire" (which mean they work for the state) and have a special contract where they almost cannot be fired (if they are in the syndicate, well even a pedophile cannot get fired lol, i'm exagerating a little bit there but that's the spirit). They work like 16 hours a week, are paid more and have a certain number of advantage. To be such teacher you must pass a difficult exam called CAPES with what 70-100 slots a year something like that.
Lastly, the one we called "aggrégés" (aggregate) are the one who pass the "agregation", a really difficult exam with 10 place a year or so, and have 8-9 hours a week of work.
All the time i refer to the time they pass in the school, in class with the kids, not the correction of copies or the time you spend to contact parents or the time you spend with kids outside class individually. Well all these advantage are more and more critized by some party, like during the election, people argued that they should stay 35 hours a week in the school (35h is the legal duration of work a week in france). The actual government is reducing the number of teacher (that's why there is so few slot in the CAPES or for the agregation).
Well I'm not that sure about everything i say there, since i'm not a teacher, but i'm pretty sure most is true (since i have a lot of friend who are teachers actually and I am always arguing with them about the fact that they have an easy jobs and should stop whining all the time, have a little respect for others who work 2 or 3 time what they work).
Thanks for explaining all of that for me. First of all I want to point out that it's very misleading to say a teacher 'works' for 16 or 18 hours a week or whatever it is (depending on the type of teacher apparently). The time spent teaching a class is only a portion of the total time and effort that goes into good teaching (you made a note about this). One major difference between France and the USA seems to be that French teachers don't have contractual hours to be 'at' work. Here I am responsible to be in the school from a few minutes before school starts for children to a few minutes after school ends for children, regardless of my personal teaching schedule. Furthermore there are other contractual obligations outside of that time including meetings, conferences, and other things, but that's really not that important.
Kids are in school here for... approximately 7 hours for a standard school day (there are many variations but just as a rough estimate). Teachers are there for the entire duration which is approximately 35 hours a week plus an hour for extra help, and hour for a meeting, etc, which works out to 37 plus sometimes more of contractual time. Not too bad considering teachers get summer months off, right? The only problem with this way of thinking is that teachers spend a lot of time outside of those hours doing work for their job. During that window, there is insufficient time to get planning, grading, etc done. Most teachers are in the school for at least 8-9 hours or bring a couple of hours of work home. Not to say that this is unfair but it gets overlooked a lot.
I just ask that you don't tell me I worked 15 hours a week this past school year :p
Not sure what your friends are complaining about with their job but there are some aspects that they probably are justified to complain about, but when did complaining ever accomplish much? I guess that goes for all jobs... I try not to complain too much about it... except sometimes to other teachers who share my pain :3
edit: btw I've held jobs ranging from teaching (obviously) to being a supermarket cashier, garbage man, other stuff, and I'll tell you that teaching is pretty damn exhausting... no joke
Well I've never imply that school teacher do not work enough. And I know that it is a hard job (I done it, even if it is irrelevant since it was for such a little time). By adding "in some way", I was just referring to the fact that there is way harder jobs physically speaking (In fact, I think that teacher is one of the hardest job if you only consider the mental pressure).
As for france, some of their complain are certainly justified if you look at the degradation of our scholar system, that's for sure. But on the other hand, they act like a corporation, only defending their position and their little advantage as state teachers.
A lot of people hear are judging and judging harshly. In this instance I have to say none here are fit to be doing so. This is a school for troubled children, the teacher may be reacting in a troubled way but you have no context to pass judgment not to mention a lack of understanding of the situation and dynamics present. It is enough to be disgusted and ask questions, intelligently debate but there is no base for crass judgment.
Not that the teacher should have acted in that manner, but does anyone think that maybe the student shouldn't have been a prick? That way, the situation leading to these events could have been avoided altogether...
It is the teacher and the parents' job to teach the students why they shouldn't be acting in such behavior. I feel responsible if i didn't make it clear on my expectations of behavior in my class. I also feel responsible if i didn't make it clear on what it means to be respectful as respect surely is one of the expectations in any classroom. That being said, there are of course kids who behave in unacceptable ways regardless, the teacher just have to remember they are kids and the reason they are going to school is to learn, not just learn academic knowledge, but life lessons as well. There are many many good students for every miss behaving students, a teacher should never fail at their job because of a few bad students that are stressing them out. After all both the good and the troubled are sitting in the same class.
On May 20 2010 03:34 JinMaikeul wrote: Not that the teacher should have acted in that manner, but does anyone think that maybe the student shouldn't have been a prick? That way, the situation leading to these events could have been avoided altogether...
ya well, given the average 13 year old males, one of them has to be a prick. hell one of us talking about it in this thread was probably a little prick when we were young. there's only so much crap a teacher can take from someone half or a third their age before they snap. still, that doesn't justify her actions, but its understandable, i suppose.
Yeah, I guess it pretty much goes back to the whole, "Instead of saying 'Fuck the Police', how about not breaking the fucking law?" thing... Ideally the situation would be avoided altogether, but when the conflict comes, you would really hope that the authority figure acts appropriately. I do think we're too quick to judge them, though. They're human beings, too, and despite their actions being inappropriate, sometimes they're ultimately understandable.
And yes, I was a prick when I was younger and my parents regularly beat the crap out of me for it. I forget when it was that I eventually learned that instead of complaining about the way they disciplined me, I could adjust my own behavior so I wouldn't need to be in a position to be disciplined anyway...
Jamie's House Charter School is a school for children with disciplinary issues.
Sheri Lynn Davis got the Teacher of the Year award 2 of the 3 years she worked at Jamie's House Charter School.
The child that was assaulted (Isaiah Reagins) was apparently known for assaulting kids and teachers himself. He'd been expelled from the school and came back and had a history with the teacher Sheri Lynn Davis.
The incident happened after testing had finished and all the students were sitting on the ground in the room. This is a school for children with disciplinary issues, all of the students in the room were African American with one white girl that was new and mentally handicapped.
A fight broke out outside the classroom and Sheri Lynn Davis had to go and break it up. After breaking the fight up outside she went back to her room to find the kids had locked her out.
When she finally gets into her classroom the kids are all picking on the new mentally handicapped girl. With reports that Isaiah Reagins was hitting her.
Sheri Lynn Davis throws a desk and yells “So, you want to fight a girl? Fight me.”
While this is happening other students are laughing and clapping, they weren't freaking out, they weren't intervening, they thought it was funny which supports that this was a school for kids with disciplinary issues not a regular school.
These kids obviously aren't angels and the minute the teacher left the class to deal with a fight outside (which apparently happens a lot here) they locked her out and started picking on the mentally handicapped new girl with Isaiah Reagins reportedly hitting her. Isaiah Reagins pulls this shit all the time, he came back after having been expelled. He has a history with Sheri Lynn Davis too whose reportedly Isaiah's "favorite teacher."
Sheri Lynn Davis is not a bad teacher, she got Teacher of the Year twice in three years and was apparently well liked. Obviously Sheri Lynn Davis shouldn't have beat up that kid. And I'm not trying to argue that she got pushed too far or anything. At the end of the day she has to suffer a lot more than that kid that gets to sit there acting like he's the victim when he's the sort of kid that would pick on a mentally handicapped girl. "That brave little boy."
She loses her job and faces possible jail time while everyone tells the boy he's so brave. I wish there were a few more people in support of the teacher because even though she made a mistake that kid doesn't deserve as much support as he's getting.
On May 19 2010 23:50 jabberwokie wrote: A lot of people hear are judging and judging harshly. In this instance I have to say none here are fit to be doing so. This is a school for troubled children, the teacher may be reacting in a troubled way but you have no context to pass judgment not to mention a lack of understanding of the situation and dynamics present. It is enough to be disgusted and ask questions, intelligently debate but there is no base for crass judgment.
Nonsense. Of course I have a right to pass judgment. Her actions affected not just herself but all of society. She was playing a important public function as an educator, and it was clear as day that the teacher was snapping and venting frustration on a kid who was in no condition to fight back. Whatever 'context' or mitigating circumstance is irrelevant. The moment you assume your role as teacher, you must hold yourself above that of a normal person, at least for that instance. Education is a almost sacred duty, there are few roles more important for the future of a society. It is terrible and it is hard, but if you are not passionate and prepared for such an important job you have no business being in the teaching profession.
The fact that this is a school for troubled children makes this action even worse. This means that the teacher should have understanding and acceptance of the difficult situations she will be called upon to face.
The fact that people are ready to condone such behavior is evidence that we do not nearly value education enough as a society. Snapping like this might be mildly tolerable in any other job, but NOT in the role of an educator.
Edit: Just want to add, this is not a issue of corporal punishment. I in fact support corporal punishment, but this isn't it. Corporal punishment must be orderly and instill disciplined, this is just an adult beating up on a child . This uncontrolled, disorderly attitude from a teacher is more detrimental than the actual use of force.
On May 19 2010 23:50 jabberwokie wrote: A lot of people hear are judging and judging harshly. In this instance I have to say none here are fit to be doing so. This is a school for troubled children, the teacher may be reacting in a troubled way but you have no context to pass judgment not to mention a lack of understanding of the situation and dynamics present. It is enough to be disgusted and ask questions, intelligently debate but there is no base for crass judgment.
Nonsense. Of course I have a right to pass judgment. Her actions affected not just herself but all of society. She was playing a important public function as an educator, and it was clear as day that the teacher was snapping and venting frustration on a kid who was in no condition to fight back. Whatever 'context' or mitigating circumstance is irrelevant. The moment you assume your role as teacher, you must hold yourself above that of a normal person, at least for that instance. Education is a almost sacred duty, there are few roles more important for the future of a society. It is terrible and it is hard, but if you are not passionate and prepared for such an important job you have no business being in the teaching profession.
The fact that this is a school for troubled children makes this action even worse. This means that the teacher should have understanding and acceptance of the difficult situations she will be called upon to face.
The fact that people are ready to condone such behavior is evidence that we do not nearly value education enough as a society. Snapping like this might be mildly tolerable in any other job, but NOT in the role of an educator.
Edit: Just want to add, this is not a issue of corporal punishment. I in fact support corporal punishment, but this isn't it. Corporal punishment must be orderly and instill disciplined, this is just an adult beating up on a child . This uncontrolled, disorderly attitude from a teacher is more detrimental than the actual use of force.
Do I understand you correctly, Aphelion? When someone points out that we don't have all the facts and really should learn more about what really happened before passing down judgment on the teacher, your response is actually yes you can pass judgment? And your evidence is that teachers have the holy job that must never be violated? You admit her job was terrible and hard, but not that it can possibly be somewhat understanding that it could drive someone to snap...
If only people who would never snap in a job like that would take up teaching roles most kids like the ones seen in that video would remain teacher-less and uneducated anyway.
Also I don't see the guy you quoted condoning what the teacher did at all despite what you are implying... he's just saying we should not let a biased view of the events of the day be sufficient evidence for us to be judge and jury.
Not sure why there is a 14 page debate here, that woman is obviously not well and shouldnt be allowed to be a teacher. It wasnt even like a disciplinary slap to quiet him down, which I still think is bad, its just a rage attack against a small child.
On May 24 2010 19:48 EvilSky wrote: Not sure why there is a 14 page debate here, that woman is obviously not well and shouldnt be allowed to be a teacher. It wasnt even like a disciplinary slap to quiet him down, which I still think is bad, its just a rage attack against a small child.
Why did you say a rage attack against a small child? In what circumstances would he have been a bigger child? Would her rage attacks have been okay if she did the same thing against a 6'9" 340 pound 16 year old? That kid was old enough to be involved in some pretty terrible things outside of school and you have no idea how terribly he was acting towards his teacher, classmates, etc. Size doesn't have much to do with it.
Or are you just trying to make it sound as terrible as possible to justify your claims? You are probably right she shouldn't be teaching any more after this incidence but at least be fair in how you determine this.
edit: but to answer your original question... there's not really a 14 page debate... there is 14 pages of discussion about different elements of this issue and why some people should be going about the discussion in different ways than they are etc. plus some semantics.
Well she probably couldnt do it to a 16 yr old cuz hed beat her ass, but thats obviously not the point, you are right it doesnt matter if its a small or big child, she is not a good person and shouldnt be allowed to teach.
On May 24 2010 19:56 EvilSky wrote: Well she probably couldnt do it to a 16 yr old cuz hed beat her ass, but thats obviously not the point, you are right it doesnt matter if its a small or big child, she is not a good person and shouldnt be allowed to teach.
As I explained earlier saying "she is not a good person" is jumping to conclusions since we don't know what drove her to these terrible actions. Not being allowed to teach is more obvious though. You and I both probably would have cracked earlier than her in the ridiculous situation she was placed in and done god knows what... and if you say "well I wouldn't let myself be in that type of working environment" then realize that there are few people who would and we need to try to educate these problem kids somehow.
On May 24 2010 19:04 ForSC2 wrote: Jamie's House Charter School is a school for children with disciplinary issues.
Sheri Lynn Davis got the Teacher of the Year award 2 of the 3 years she worked at Jamie's House Charter School.
The child that was assaulted (Isaiah Reagins) was apparently known for assaulting kids and teachers himself. He'd been expelled from the school and came back and had a history with the teacher Sheri Lynn Davis.
The incident happened after testing had finished and all the students were sitting on the ground in the room. This is a school for children with disciplinary issues, all of the students in the room were African American with one white girl that was new and mentally handicapped.
A fight broke out outside the classroom and Sheri Lynn Davis had to go and break it up. After breaking the fight up outside she went back to her room to find the kids had locked her out.
When she finally gets into her classroom the kids are all picking on the new mentally handicapped girl. With reports that Isaiah Reagins was hitting her.
Sheri Lynn Davis throws a desk and yells “So, you want to fight a girl? Fight me.”
On May 24 2010 19:56 EvilSky wrote: Well she probably couldnt do it to a 16 yr old cuz hed beat her ass, but thats obviously not the point, you are right it doesnt matter if its a small or big child, she is not a good person and shouldnt be allowed to teach.
As I explained earlier saying "she is not a good person" is jumping to conclusions since we don't know what drove her to these terrible actions. Not being allowed to teach is more obvious though. You and I both probably would have cracked earlier than her in the ridiculous situation she was placed in and done god knows what... and if you say "well I wouldn't let myself be in that type of working environment" then realize that there are few people who would and we need to try to educate these problem kids somehow.
problem kids? ridiculous situation? now who is jumping to conclusions? Ive read the article and it nothing of that sort. But Im not really sure why you are trying to split hairs here, Im not saying this woman is the reincarnation of Hitler but in my opinion a person that is capable of doing this is not a good person and shouldnt be allowed to be a teacher. edit: ok just read post above, disregard first part, second part still stands.
On May 19 2010 23:50 jabberwokie wrote: A lot of people hear are judging and judging harshly. In this instance I have to say none here are fit to be doing so. This is a school for troubled children, the teacher may be reacting in a troubled way but you have no context to pass judgment not to mention a lack of understanding of the situation and dynamics present. It is enough to be disgusted and ask questions, intelligently debate but there is no base for crass judgment.
Nonsense. Of course I have a right to pass judgment. Her actions affected not just herself but all of society. She was playing a important public function as an educator, and it was clear as day that the teacher was snapping and venting frustration on a kid who was in no condition to fight back. Whatever 'context' or mitigating circumstance is irrelevant. The moment you assume your role as teacher, you must hold yourself above that of a normal person, at least for that instance. Education is a almost sacred duty, there are few roles more important for the future of a society. It is terrible and it is hard, but if you are not passionate and prepared for such an important job you have no business being in the teaching profession.
The fact that this is a school for troubled children makes this action even worse. This means that the teacher should have understanding and acceptance of the difficult situations she will be called upon to face.
The fact that people are ready to condone such behavior is evidence that we do not nearly value education enough as a society. Snapping like this might be mildly tolerable in any other job, but NOT in the role of an educator.
Edit: Just want to add, this is not a issue of corporal punishment. I in fact support corporal punishment, but this isn't it. Corporal punishment must be orderly and instill disciplined, this is just an adult beating up on a child . This uncontrolled, disorderly attitude from a teacher is more detrimental than the actual use of force.
Do I understand you correctly, Aphelion? When someone points out that we don't have all the facts and really should learn more about what really happened before passing down judgment on the teacher, your response is actually yes you can pass judgment? And your evidence is that teachers have the holy job that must never be violated? You admit her job was terrible and hard, but not that it can possibly be somewhat understanding that it could drive someone to snap...
If only people who would never snap in a job like that would take up teaching roles most kids like the ones seen in that video would remain teacher-less and uneducated anyway.
Also I don't see the guy you quoted condoning what the teacher did at all despite what you are implying... he's just saying we should not let a biased view of the events of the day be sufficient evidence for us to be judge and jury.
If you read deep enough you can always find an excuse depending on "context". Its become a convenient excuse for those who do not own up to personal responsibilities. Context can provide the argument that you are not a bad person, but cannot excuse your bad actions. And in this world, it is actions and potential actions that should determine judgment.
Assuming the context provided by the other posters are true, this teacher is a kind hearted person who snapped when seeing that boy pick on a girl. What does this say? Her heart is in the right place. She didn't mean to genuinely hurt anyone. However, her actions are not forgivable, and she should never be allowed tot each again. Whatever her disposition maybe, these are the decisions that must be taken so we can improve our education system as a whole.
So yes, I can pass judgment just looking at that video. Because my judgment is on her actions, and as her role as a teacher. I can look at that video and safely say, that she ought to be removed from her position. My judgment does not extend to whatever personal "sins" she might have, or how good of a person she intrinsically is. If more people realized this we would not have the entitled, irresponsible attitudes society seems to tolerate these days.
Aphelion I mostly agree with you but you are making it sound like it's bad to wait and get more information than what one vague article has shown us. Btw I also don't disagree that we can judge at this point about the teacher being removed at the very least. But I get concerned by the amount people read into a situation and perpetuate misconceptions based on horribly incomplete info.
Context also can be important when looking at bad acions... it isn't necessarily just searching for excuses or a poor reflection on society.
i remember in high school, there was some dumb bitches who were making fun of a teacher for being gay. he snapped when they started calling him a faggot and he slapped one of them. he was fired but... kids have no respect. teachers have no means to discipline or even have control in the classroom. to the ppl that say other methods should have been pursued... what methods? a lot of children now days, the child rules the parents the parents are too dumb to know that their child is rotten (oh it can't be tim. he is such a sweet child. i think you are mistaken!!)
ugh. i can understand people snapping due to the stress. weed would solve this problem hahahahaha. have the teachers smoke a bowl to quiet the nerves rofl.
but yeah. bad idea to beat him. but i bet the fucker deserved it.
Its not about whether the kid deserved it. For example, I would be in support of a good caning or spanking for this kid in question. That is punishment and discipline. But disorderly fighting and a beat down like this is not acceptable.
Wow, that teacher's a bitch. back in the day when I was a young thirteen year old, only 6 feet high, I would have beat that teacher back into the kitchen if she tried that.
There are two sides to this though, and I'm sure the kid was acting like a douche (some of my teachers would have liked to attack some of my former classmates), but teachers are supposed to be the rational adults. Must be that time of the month...
On May 24 2010 19:04 ForSC2 wrote: Jamie's House Charter School is a school for children with disciplinary issues.
Sheri Lynn Davis got the Teacher of the Year award 2 of the 3 years she worked at Jamie's House Charter School.
The child that was assaulted (Isaiah Reagins) was apparently known for assaulting kids and teachers himself. He'd been expelled from the school and came back and had a history with the teacher Sheri Lynn Davis.
The incident happened after testing had finished and all the students were sitting on the ground in the room. This is a school for children with disciplinary issues, all of the students in the room were African American with one white girl that was new and mentally handicapped.
A fight broke out outside the classroom and Sheri Lynn Davis had to go and break it up. After breaking the fight up outside she went back to her room to find the kids had locked her out.
When she finally gets into her classroom the kids are all picking on the new mentally handicapped girl. With reports that Isaiah Reagins was hitting her.
Sheri Lynn Davis throws a desk and yells “So, you want to fight a girl? Fight me.”
While this is happening other students are laughing and clapping, they weren't freaking out, they weren't intervening, they thought it was funny which supports that this was a school for kids with disciplinary issues not a regular school.
These kids obviously aren't angels and the minute the teacher left the class to deal with a fight outside (which apparently happens a lot here) they locked her out and started picking on the mentally handicapped new girl with Isaiah Reagins reportedly hitting her. Isaiah Reagins pulls this shit all the time, he came back after having been expelled. He has a history with Sheri Lynn Davis too whose reportedly Isaiah's "favorite teacher."
Sheri Lynn Davis is not a bad teacher, she got Teacher of the Year twice in three years and was apparently well liked. Obviously Sheri Lynn Davis shouldn't have beat up that kid. And I'm not trying to argue that she got pushed too far or anything. At the end of the day she has to suffer a lot more than that kid that gets to sit there acting like he's the victim when he's the sort of kid that would pick on a mentally handicapped girl. "That brave little boy."
She loses her job and faces possible jail time while everyone tells the boy he's so brave. I wish there were a few more people in support of the teacher because even though she made a mistake that kid doesn't deserve as much support as he's getting.
Damn. If that's the case I can definitely sympathize with the teacher. What she did was still bad, but yeah - not like it came out of nowhere.
PS: What kind of role were the parents playing here? Just wondering.
I guess I've seen a few too many Bourne movies, but psychological damage aside, the kid barely even got roughed up.
I say he deserved it, and if you disagree, you should read / find out about the teacher-student relationship in many Asian countries. I remember getting kicked, whipped, slapped and punched by my teachers as a kid back in the motherland, and I was one of the good students. The parents know about it and are completely fine with it, and even if they weren't as I'm sure there are the discontent few, there's absolutely shit they can do.
End result? Disciplined and orderly kids who grind numbers and facts like machines. That's why that FOB Chinese kid rapes you in your statistics class.
On May 24 2010 19:04 ForSC2 wrote: Jamie's House Charter School is a school for children with disciplinary issues.
Sheri Lynn Davis got the Teacher of the Year award 2 of the 3 years she worked at Jamie's House Charter School.
The child that was assaulted (Isaiah Reagins) was apparently known for assaulting kids and teachers himself. He'd been expelled from the school and came back and had a history with the teacher Sheri Lynn Davis.
The incident happened after testing had finished and all the students were sitting on the ground in the room. This is a school for children with disciplinary issues, all of the students in the room were African American with one white girl that was new and mentally handicapped.
A fight broke out outside the classroom and Sheri Lynn Davis had to go and break it up. After breaking the fight up outside she went back to her room to find the kids had locked her out.
When she finally gets into her classroom the kids are all picking on the new mentally handicapped girl. With reports that Isaiah Reagins was hitting her.
Sheri Lynn Davis throws a desk and yells “So, you want to fight a girl? Fight me.”
While this is happening other students are laughing and clapping, they weren't freaking out, they weren't intervening, they thought it was funny which supports that this was a school for kids with disciplinary issues not a regular school.
These kids obviously aren't angels and the minute the teacher left the class to deal with a fight outside (which apparently happens a lot here) they locked her out and started picking on the mentally handicapped new girl with Isaiah Reagins reportedly hitting her. Isaiah Reagins pulls this shit all the time, he came back after having been expelled. He has a history with Sheri Lynn Davis too whose reportedly Isaiah's "favorite teacher."
Sheri Lynn Davis is not a bad teacher, she got Teacher of the Year twice in three years and was apparently well liked. Obviously Sheri Lynn Davis shouldn't have beat up that kid. And I'm not trying to argue that she got pushed too far or anything. At the end of the day she has to suffer a lot more than that kid that gets to sit there acting like he's the victim when he's the sort of kid that would pick on a mentally handicapped girl. "That brave little boy."
She loses her job and faces possible jail time while everyone tells the boy he's so brave. I wish there were a few more people in support of the teacher because even though she made a mistake that kid doesn't deserve as much support as he's getting.
Damn. If that's the case I can definitely sympathize with the teacher. What she did was still bad, but yeah - not like it came out of nowhere.
PS: What kind of role were the parents playing here? Just wondering.
Ida beat that son of a bitch black and blue, ignorant little faggot. She should have kept beating his ass and then stopped and kicked him then got that white girl the fuck out
To be honest, from the video it looked like they were just playing around till the very end. Like, partway through, when she throws 3 successive punches, I swear it looks like the punches don't connect. Other than that it's really just dragging him around, and for some reason the video skips ahead some every 11 seconds or so, as if some was edited out or something.
EPT
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