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On January 31 2010 04:15 Makhno wrote:I just want to throw this into the discussion about the point of prison (rehabilitation/protection vs punishment/protection): An extremely important function of prison is the preventation of crime, as in scaring people into not committing them. I'm really surprised this has'nt been adressed in the discussion, it's basically the main point of any punishment. More OT: This is a really stupid decision, something as creative as DnD should be encouraged in prisons. Also I think depriving someone of the right to escape their own reality is borderline torture. Show nested quote +On January 30 2010 17:43 QuickStriker wrote:
Wow lol, I don't even.....
Maybe in the distant future where prisons are all highly equipped and prisoners are able to have their own personal computers or laptops in their rooms or somewhere, WOULD THEY BAN STARCRAFT TOO? For violence???
Think about that folks. Lol, I'm pretty sure they allow laptops for inmates on low-security prisons in Sweden. With restrictions naturally.
Actually, I addressed it before. I guess you missed my post
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On January 31 2010 04:11 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 03:59 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 03:39 7mk wrote:
my god you dont understand the simplest concepts do you.
People said this as a response to other people saying "well its prison youre not supposed to enjoy shit"
It was about prisoners not being allowed to do hobbies they enjoy, the D&D game mentioned in the OP is the example we have here, that doesnt mean that we must limit ourselves to talk about just this one thing and not see the bigger picture here. I'm sorry if you're incapable of expressing your argument explicitly, but you shouldn't be mad when people interpret incorrectly if you're not going to say what you mean and mean what you say. It isn't about prisoners not being able to do hobbies they enjoy, it's specifically related to D&D. The supreme court ruling didn't ban hobbies, it banned D&D. Please stop making assumptions and speculating (funny how you accused me of doing it when you've done it the entire time) a "bigger picture" when none of it is mentioned as being banned because it isn't relevant. For you to say a murderer can't be afraid of another murderer is a horrible argument. You say "its insane to play this game around murderers"
I say "its not insane, they might be his friends, whatever they have done. And since he is a murderer himself I dont think he wont be like "I'll never get near anyone who is a murderer"
Now you see what is really different about the two of us though is that I said "it's possible you're right" I dont know for sure, maybe he is afraid of other murderers (although if hes playing D&D with them maybe not lolol) but to say that if he is not that must mean is insane is just stupid and you are not basing this on ANY logical argument.
Oh and once more, give me ONE example where some one either said
"it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living"
or
"a prisoner's life is not worth living without it"
you said "you and many others have said this."
so give me JUST ONE in the entire thread.
Please, give me one example or admit you're wrong. If you dont do either I'll stop wasting my time here. I said you've gotta be pretty crazy to play this game in prison. I'm sure he obviously has at least one friend he plays it with (I doubt he plays D&D alone, although it's possible). Now you're just going into personal attacks and hypocrisy, along with assumptions, speculation, and taking everything in my argument with certainty when there's obviously uncertainty in situational circumstances which will affect the outcome of how one might judge this man for playing D&D in a prison. Okay here's a quote, not only of you saying it but claiming that others have said it: "Some people, myself included, said that it's not right to take away everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living, a hobby you enjoy like D&D would be one of these things." So you might want to settle down because you're being inconsistent now. God how stupid are you I already explained to you that it's not the same thing, try again. But since you are full of shit and you will simply not find a single sentence saying what you claimed we said I guess this will be my last post here, unless you get over yourself and at least admit you were wrong about that one part.
I've explained already how it is the same, I guess it went over your head so you just ignored it. If you want to actually read the explanation and if you analyze it some I'm sure you can figure it out on your own but I'm done trying to enlighten you because you're not only incompetent, but you're rude and I'm not going to help an ingrate. GL in the future.
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On January 31 2010 04:22 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 04:11 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 03:59 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 03:39 7mk wrote:
my god you dont understand the simplest concepts do you.
People said this as a response to other people saying "well its prison youre not supposed to enjoy shit"
It was about prisoners not being allowed to do hobbies they enjoy, the D&D game mentioned in the OP is the example we have here, that doesnt mean that we must limit ourselves to talk about just this one thing and not see the bigger picture here. I'm sorry if you're incapable of expressing your argument explicitly, but you shouldn't be mad when people interpret incorrectly if you're not going to say what you mean and mean what you say. It isn't about prisoners not being able to do hobbies they enjoy, it's specifically related to D&D. The supreme court ruling didn't ban hobbies, it banned D&D. Please stop making assumptions and speculating (funny how you accused me of doing it when you've done it the entire time) a "bigger picture" when none of it is mentioned as being banned because it isn't relevant. For you to say a murderer can't be afraid of another murderer is a horrible argument. You say "its insane to play this game around murderers"
I say "its not insane, they might be his friends, whatever they have done. And since he is a murderer himself I dont think he wont be like "I'll never get near anyone who is a murderer"
Now you see what is really different about the two of us though is that I said "it's possible you're right" I dont know for sure, maybe he is afraid of other murderers (although if hes playing D&D with them maybe not lolol) but to say that if he is not that must mean is insane is just stupid and you are not basing this on ANY logical argument.
Oh and once more, give me ONE example where some one either said
"it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living"
or
"a prisoner's life is not worth living without it"
you said "you and many others have said this."
so give me JUST ONE in the entire thread.
Please, give me one example or admit you're wrong. If you dont do either I'll stop wasting my time here. I said you've gotta be pretty crazy to play this game in prison. I'm sure he obviously has at least one friend he plays it with (I doubt he plays D&D alone, although it's possible). Now you're just going into personal attacks and hypocrisy, along with assumptions, speculation, and taking everything in my argument with certainty when there's obviously uncertainty in situational circumstances which will affect the outcome of how one might judge this man for playing D&D in a prison. Okay here's a quote, not only of you saying it but claiming that others have said it: "Some people, myself included, said that it's not right to take away everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living, a hobby you enjoy like D&D would be one of these things." So you might want to settle down because you're being inconsistent now. God how stupid are you I already explained to you that it's not the same thing, try again. But since you are full of shit and you will simply not find a single sentence saying what you claimed we said I guess this will be my last post here, unless you get over yourself and at least admit you were wrong about that one part. I've explained already how it is the same, I guess it went over your head so you just ignored it. If you want to actually read the explanation and if you analyze it some I'm sure you can figure it out on your own but I'm done trying to enlighten you because you're not only incompetent, but you're rude and I'm not going to help an ingrate. GL in the future.
The thing is that your new argument is already countered by my explanation that's why I don't feel like saying the same thing in another way so simple that even you can understand it when you could just reread my post or the posts of the others who you were referring to by completely distorting what they said. Just think about it thoroughly and maybe one day you will realise how very much it differs from what you said and how little sense almost everything you said in this thread makes.
G'day sir.
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Canada11475 Posts
On January 31 2010 03:46 Saturnize wrote:
WOW I didn't know prisoners had fantasies of escaping prision1!!1!! I guess D&D gives them that "urge". Me personally have urges to kill mass amounts of people whenever I play starcraft! Who would've thought..
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And to think, if they hadn't played DnD they would NEVER have thought of escaping. Their naivete is kind of cute actually.
Really I think this entire debate on rehabilitation vs punishment or vengeance is moot because the court ruling had nothing to do with it and had everything to do with really shoddy logic, probably originating from the DnD scares in the 80s.
On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I guess I'm more arguing that it should be banned for this individual. Although I wasn't aware D&D was a popular phenomena in prisons these days.
Anyone else think imagining prisoners playing D&D is just ridiculous anyways?
The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows:
1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D
2.) someone help me out here?
What the hell is this all about? If you play in DnD in prison must be insane? How about chess players? Or monopoly? If it was a hobby outside of prison, it'll be a hobby inside of prison. Nothing to do with addiction my friend.
On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Insane addiction comes from the fact that if your life is miserable and not worth living without D&D, you write a 91 page paper on it, and love it so much you're willing to play it in prison around murderers, then you probably have an unhealthy addiction to it that is probably related to a lack of sanity or some other mental condition (which could be related to the stabbing and bludgeoning as well).
Right, but you don't know the circumstances of that document. Honestly, if you've been refereeing rpg games long enough, you will accumulate that many pages. But using the same logic would not any of our Starcraft article writers be unhealthly addicted to SC (Nightmarjaroo's map guide for instance- thanks by the way). Why get so down on a hobby? Again with this you-must-be-insane-to-play-with-murderers. Except that he's one, he's surrounded by some and he likes to play. So what to do? You play where you at, with who you got. Same as any other game.
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I think that his actions like writing the 96 page manuscript don't seem sane until you realize that he has lots of spare time with little to fill it. If after his day of work (lets hope that he does something so he can contribute in some way to society) he feels like hanging out with his prison friends and playing a game then he should be allowed to. I believe that prisoners should be punished, but only to much in necessary. Make them work for very little pay (about a dollar an hour sounds good), and let them use their free time in a manor that doesn't hurt anyone. I feel that being forced to work for near nothing for years (or a life time) and having no freedom is enough punishment. The only thing that I can see being worse is locking him in a dark box and only remembering he's there when it is time to feed him which is good for no one involved.
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Canada11475 Posts
On January 31 2010 06:07 Zack1900 wrote:
I think that his actions like writing the 96 page manuscript don't seem sane until you realize that he has lots of spare time with little to fill it. If after his day of work (lets hope that he does something so he can contribute in some way to society) he feels like hanging out with his prison friends and playing a game then he should be allowed to. I believe that prisoners should be punished, but only to much in necessary. Make them work for very little pay (about a dollar an hour sounds good), and let them use their free time in a manor that doesn't hurt anyone. I feel that being forced to work for near nothing for years (or a life time) and having no freedom is enough punishment. The only thing that I can see being worse is locking him in a dark box and only remembering he's there when it is time to feed him which is good for no one involved.
I appreciate your humanitarian outlook on the prison system, but even if he did not have a lot of time, 96 pages only seems insane to those that have never refereed (dungeon master/ game master, whatever you want to call it). Or if you think writers are insane (mind you some are, just saying.)
Having run four missions myself, each mission has a word document has 15-25 pages. Maybe half of that is rules I've copied/pasted for easy access, a lot of it is point form notes/ lists, if/ then scenarios etc. The point is, it is very easy to get a high page count, and I'm not particularly crazy about writing huge backstories like some I've seen. If your not an ad-libber, it requires prep to play and prep means writing. The game is much more free form then Risk or Settlers of Catan where all the pieces are in the box and that is all.
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I personally believe that there should be no prisons, only psychiatric hospitals for different kinds of disease (obviously some of them will be pretty much like a prison, but most wont) and focused on making the individual work in society again.
And I think in this specific case, whoever was in charge of the decision to ban D&D was to hasty, he could have used it as a tool to reach this goal of social rehab, instead of just following the "What ? No!" bandwagon.
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Prisoners are humans too, just sub-par that of society's standards.
I say let the poor man do what he wants, as long as he's not excessively disruptive.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
On January 31 2010 06:32 D10 wrote:
I personally believe that there should be no prisons, only psychiatric hospitals for different kinds of disease (obviously some of them will be pretty much like a prison, but most wont) and focused on making the individual work in society again.
And I think in this specific case, whoever was in charge of the decision to ban D&D was to hasty, he could have used it as a tool to reach this goal of social rehab, instead of just following the "What ? No!" bandwagon.
Tell me that when your sister gets bludgeoned and stabbed to death. Will you not wish for death or extreme suffering for the perpetrator?
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is awesome32278 Posts
On January 30 2010 23:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:the idea that prison is supposed to be about punishment is incredibly dehumanizing. it seriously saddens me that it's such a prevalent thought 
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On January 31 2010 06:55 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 06:32 D10 wrote:
I personally believe that there should be no prisons, only psychiatric hospitals for different kinds of disease (obviously some of them will be pretty much like a prison, but most wont) and focused on making the individual work in society again.
And I think in this specific case, whoever was in charge of the decision to ban D&D was to hasty, he could have used it as a tool to reach this goal of social rehab, instead of just following the "What ? No!" bandwagon. Tell me that when your sister gets bludgeoned and stabbed to death. Will you not wish for death or extreme suffering for the perpetrator?
No I wouldnt, it wouldnt bring me her back, I want him to understand that he was wrong and mentally sick and be reinstated into society in a organized and healthy way, playing D&D.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
On January 31 2010 07:02 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 06:55 orgolove wrote:On January 31 2010 06:32 D10 wrote:
I personally believe that there should be no prisons, only psychiatric hospitals for different kinds of disease (obviously some of them will be pretty much like a prison, but most wont) and focused on making the individual work in society again.
And I think in this specific case, whoever was in charge of the decision to ban D&D was to hasty, he could have used it as a tool to reach this goal of social rehab, instead of just following the "What ? No!" bandwagon. Tell me that when your sister gets bludgeoned and stabbed to death. Will you not wish for death or extreme suffering for the perpetrator? No I wouldnt, it wouldnt bring me her back, I want him to understand that he was wrong and mentally sick and be reinstated into society in a organized and healthy way, playing D&D.
Wow. I will have nothing to do with you. I can't believe that you think that way.
If a criminal destroys one's life, then his life must similarily be destroyed.
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On January 31 2010 07:06 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 07:02 D10 wrote:On January 31 2010 06:55 orgolove wrote:On January 31 2010 06:32 D10 wrote:
I personally believe that there should be no prisons, only psychiatric hospitals for different kinds of disease (obviously some of them will be pretty much like a prison, but most wont) and focused on making the individual work in society again.
And I think in this specific case, whoever was in charge of the decision to ban D&D was to hasty, he could have used it as a tool to reach this goal of social rehab, instead of just following the "What ? No!" bandwagon. Tell me that when your sister gets bludgeoned and stabbed to death. Will you not wish for death or extreme suffering for the perpetrator? No I wouldnt, it wouldnt bring me her back, I want him to understand that he was wrong and mentally sick and be reinstated into society in a organized and healthy way, playing D&D. Wow. I will have nothing to do with you. I can't believe that you think that way. If a criminal destroys one's life, then his life must similarily be destroyed.
Why? Does that fix anything ? What wicked sense of justice is this you seek ?
As a species, I believe criminals are sick people uncapable to truly understand how important laws are, we shouldnt lose 2 people because one murdered the other, death of the ones we love is enough, must we become like him and spread suffering and pain to find peace ? I disagree.
We much break this horrible cycle of pain, and the only way to do it, is to understand that it doesnt matter how much pain one has caused you, it will never be cured by inflicting pain back on him.
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D&D may be banned, but cable television, exercise equipment, free healthcare, and other luxuries are still allowed.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
On January 31 2010 07:12 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 07:06 orgolove wrote:On January 31 2010 07:02 D10 wrote:On January 31 2010 06:55 orgolove wrote:On January 31 2010 06:32 D10 wrote:
I personally believe that there should be no prisons, only psychiatric hospitals for different kinds of disease (obviously some of them will be pretty much like a prison, but most wont) and focused on making the individual work in society again.
And I think in this specific case, whoever was in charge of the decision to ban D&D was to hasty, he could have used it as a tool to reach this goal of social rehab, instead of just following the "What ? No!" bandwagon. Tell me that when your sister gets bludgeoned and stabbed to death. Will you not wish for death or extreme suffering for the perpetrator? No I wouldnt, it wouldnt bring me her back, I want him to understand that he was wrong and mentally sick and be reinstated into society in a organized and healthy way, playing D&D. Wow. I will have nothing to do with you. I can't believe that you think that way. If a criminal destroys one's life, then his life must similarily be destroyed. Why? Does that fix anything ? What wicked sense of justice is this you seek ? As a species, I believe criminals are sick people uncapable to truly understand how important laws are, we shouldnt lose 2 people because one murdered the other, death of the ones we love is enough, must we become like him and spread suffering and pain to find peace ? I disagree. We much break this horrible cycle of pain, and the only way to do it, is to understand that it doesnt matter how much pain one has caused you, it will never be cured by inflicting pain back on him.
So lets quantify it.
This is a case that happened in Korea a few months ago, called the Na-Young incident after the name of the child. (I'm sure other Koreans in this forum will know what I'm talking about)
Say you are a 12 year old child, a criminal brutally raped you.
Your organs are destroyed for life, you can never have children, and will forever be tethered to a Catheter/poop bag because your sphincter was destroyed.
That's 80 (average lifespan)-12=68 years of pain and suffering that the criminal inflicted upon you - your entire life.
Would you not wish the same upon the criminal scum? The absolute horror of living in such a manner makes me sick. I can't believe that you would allow the absolute lowest of humanity to continue exist with their two feet, feed them, and let them play games while their victims and relatives continue to suffer from unimaginable pain.
I don't even know why we are paying for their livelihood.
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On January 31 2010 07:12 D10 wrote:
What wicked sense of justice is this you seek ?
Of course, the law abiding citizen is the wicked one, not the criminal
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On January 31 2010 07:21 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 07:12 D10 wrote:On January 31 2010 07:06 orgolove wrote:On January 31 2010 07:02 D10 wrote:On January 31 2010 06:55 orgolove wrote:On January 31 2010 06:32 D10 wrote:
I personally believe that there should be no prisons, only psychiatric hospitals for different kinds of disease (obviously some of them will be pretty much like a prison, but most wont) and focused on making the individual work in society again.
And I think in this specific case, whoever was in charge of the decision to ban D&D was to hasty, he could have used it as a tool to reach this goal of social rehab, instead of just following the "What ? No!" bandwagon. Tell me that when your sister gets bludgeoned and stabbed to death. Will you not wish for death or extreme suffering for the perpetrator? No I wouldnt, it wouldnt bring me her back, I want him to understand that he was wrong and mentally sick and be reinstated into society in a organized and healthy way, playing D&D. Wow. I will have nothing to do with you. I can't believe that you think that way. If a criminal destroys one's life, then his life must similarily be destroyed. Why? Does that fix anything ? What wicked sense of justice is this you seek ? As a species, I believe criminals are sick people uncapable to truly understand how important laws are, we shouldnt lose 2 people because one murdered the other, death of the ones we love is enough, must we become like him and spread suffering and pain to find peace ? I disagree. We much break this horrible cycle of pain, and the only way to do it, is to understand that it doesnt matter how much pain one has caused you, it will never be cured by inflicting pain back on him. So lets quantify it. This is a case that happened in Korea a few months ago, called the Na-Young incident after the name of the child. (I'm sure other Koreans in this forum will know what I'm talking about) Say you are a 12 year old child, a criminal brutally raped you. Your organs are destroyed for life, you can never have children, and will forever be tethered to a Catheter/poop bag because your sphincter was destroyed. That's 80 (average lifespan)-12=68 years of pain and suffering that the criminal inflicted upon you - your entire life. Would you not wish the same upon the criminal scum? The absolute horror of living in such a manner makes me sick. I can't believe that you would allow the absolute lowest of humanity to continue exist with their two feet, feed them, and let them play games while their victims and relatives continue to suffer from unimaginable pain. I don't even know why we are paying for their livelihood.
The point is to go beyond the emotional response dur
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Way to use the most brutal case you can think of to illustrate your point. I think we can all agree that someone who can commit that kind of atrocity is beyond rehabilitation. But the majority of criminals are non-violent offenders, and the VAST majority aren't rapists/murderers.
Obviously certain freedoms are necessarily restricted in prison, after all, they need a controlled environment to rehabilitate, which is the purpose of most prisons. The fact is however, that removing all releases can inflict a negative transition into more hostile, aggressive attitudes and actions. Clearly, while the face of this issue is this prison banning DnD, it obviously provides a precedent to restrict or prohibit other activities.
This is not the way to promote a non-violent setting in prisons. In many correctional facilities, violence is a very serious danger anytime you have multiple inmates in a single setting. This danger magnifies greatly if you have agitated inmates with nothing better to do than stir their aggressions to a boiling point. The point of this article, and the larger issue on the whole isn't whether or not inmates should be treated as beasts of burden as some have suggested, nor is it to decide whether playing DnD indicates a psychological frailty or addiction as some others have put forth. The point is that in the current system in which these people live, restricting harmless hobbies such as a DnD game is probably a bad idea.
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On January 31 2010 07:21 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 07:12 D10 wrote:On January 31 2010 07:06 orgolove wrote:On January 31 2010 07:02 D10 wrote:On January 31 2010 06:55 orgolove wrote:On January 31 2010 06:32 D10 wrote:
I personally believe that there should be no prisons, only psychiatric hospitals for different kinds of disease (obviously some of them will be pretty much like a prison, but most wont) and focused on making the individual work in society again.
And I think in this specific case, whoever was in charge of the decision to ban D&D was to hasty, he could have used it as a tool to reach this goal of social rehab, instead of just following the "What ? No!" bandwagon. Tell me that when your sister gets bludgeoned and stabbed to death. Will you not wish for death or extreme suffering for the perpetrator? No I wouldnt, it wouldnt bring me her back, I want him to understand that he was wrong and mentally sick and be reinstated into society in a organized and healthy way, playing D&D. Wow. I will have nothing to do with you. I can't believe that you think that way. If a criminal destroys one's life, then his life must similarily be destroyed. Why? Does that fix anything ? What wicked sense of justice is this you seek ? As a species, I believe criminals are sick people uncapable to truly understand how important laws are, we shouldnt lose 2 people because one murdered the other, death of the ones we love is enough, must we become like him and spread suffering and pain to find peace ? I disagree. We much break this horrible cycle of pain, and the only way to do it, is to understand that it doesnt matter how much pain one has caused you, it will never be cured by inflicting pain back on him. So lets quantify it. This is a case that happened in Korea a few months ago, called the Na-Young incident after the name of the child. (I'm sure other Koreans in this forum will know what I'm talking about) Say you are a 12 year old child, a criminal brutally raped you. Your organs are destroyed for life, you can never have children, and will forever be tethered to a Catheter/poop bag because your sphincter was destroyed. That's 80 (average lifespan)-12=68 years of pain and suffering that the criminal inflicted upon you - your entire life. Would you not wish the same upon the criminal scum? The absolute horror of living in such a manner makes me sick. I can't believe that you would allow the absolute lowest of humanity to continue exist with their two feet, feed them, and let them play games while their victims and relatives continue to suffer from unimaginable pain. I don't even know why we are paying for their livelihood.
shes paying her karma
Edit: Obviously I want to reabilitate them before reinstating them in society, but I think theres only 2 options for these kinds of people, get better or die trying.
Because we shouldnt release someone who is completely insane and murderous on the street, but we should NEVER EVER have as a goal in society to inflict pain, suffering, torturing non matter how good of a reason you have, or how much grief you have, that kind of shit is not to be tolerated under any circumstance.
Theres a reason why these guys are criminal, they are retards who cant understand why its so important to follow to laws and to abide to your fellow citizens, and after they murder your sister you will become a sick bastard just like them ?
Its a cycle of hate and violence with no meaning and no end, and the only way to stop it is to treat the muderers, rapists, and etc... with more respect and deference than they ever die to their victims, in order to teach them such things.
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On January 31 2010 07:21 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 07:12 D10 wrote:On January 31 2010 07:06 orgolove wrote:On January 31 2010 07:02 D10 wrote:On January 31 2010 06:55 orgolove wrote:On January 31 2010 06:32 D10 wrote:
I personally believe that there should be no prisons, only psychiatric hospitals for different kinds of disease (obviously some of them will be pretty much like a prison, but most wont) and focused on making the individual work in society again.
And I think in this specific case, whoever was in charge of the decision to ban D&D was to hasty, he could have used it as a tool to reach this goal of social rehab, instead of just following the "What ? No!" bandwagon. Tell me that when your sister gets bludgeoned and stabbed to death. Will you not wish for death or extreme suffering for the perpetrator? No I wouldnt, it wouldnt bring me her back, I want him to understand that he was wrong and mentally sick and be reinstated into society in a organized and healthy way, playing D&D. Wow. I will have nothing to do with you. I can't believe that you think that way. If a criminal destroys one's life, then his life must similarily be destroyed. Why? Does that fix anything ? What wicked sense of justice is this you seek ? As a species, I believe criminals are sick people uncapable to truly understand how important laws are, we shouldnt lose 2 people because one murdered the other, death of the ones we love is enough, must we become like him and spread suffering and pain to find peace ? I disagree. We much break this horrible cycle of pain, and the only way to do it, is to understand that it doesnt matter how much pain one has caused you, it will never be cured by inflicting pain back on him. So lets quantify it. This is a case that happened in Korea a few months ago, called the Na-Young incident after the name of the child. (I'm sure other Koreans in this forum will know what I'm talking about) Say you are a 12 year old child, a criminal brutally raped you. Your organs are destroyed for life, you can never have children, and will forever be tethered to a Catheter/poop bag because your sphincter was destroyed. That's 80 (average lifespan)-12=68 years of pain and suffering that the criminal inflicted upon you - your entire life. Would you not wish the same upon the criminal scum? The absolute horror of living in such a manner makes me sick. I can't believe that you would allow the absolute lowest of humanity to continue exist with their two feet, feed them, and let them play games while their victims and relatives continue to suffer from unimaginable pain. I don't even know why we are paying for their livelihood.
What does that situation have to do with anything...?
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EPT
