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I always knew D&D people were dangerous. All that slaughtering of inocent goblins could result in nothing else.
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I don't see the importance of punishing prisoners, this law makes no sense to me. It's really important to some people that JUSTICE is brought upon the wrong-doers of society though, so I understand why these sort of things happen.
But the reasoning is pretty stupid.
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On January 31 2010 02:04 Pioneer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. (yes the other one is protecting society) And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation Murder doesn't necessarily equal death penalty. I know non americans have this stereotype that we love to kill inmates but in many states there is no death penalty and in the ones that have it it is hard to get a death penalty conviction. Life in prison is more common.
??? Where did I say that all murderers are sentenced to death?
And btw I'm the one who called out BrTarolg for being too stereotypical about americans so dont tell me I am.
Basically your post just supports the point that I was trying to make in mine.
On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 01:28 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation I'm not talking about prisoners in general. Like I said, it's completely situational, and in this situation we are talking about murderers (check the first post in the thread again). If a man is sentenced to life sentence in prison for murder, he really shouldn't be released back into society and rehabilitation should be mute (there are some exceptions). Who says this man's life is shit btw? He can't play D&D so his life isn't worth living? If you're even going to pretend to be arguing about rehabilitation, then you need to realize that this is obviously an unhealthy obsession that needs to be dropped. If his life is shit without D&D and it's the only simple pleasure then helping him move past his addiction should be the the first objective of rehabilitation. But go ahead and feed his unhealthy addiction, I'm sure that's a great way to rehabilitate him into society. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:56 des wrote:On January 31 2010 00:52 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:50 des wrote:
Also the article makes no mention of him getting life without chance for parole. What if D&D teaches him how to cooperate and do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and he gets out on parole and is a model citizen!! Even if it does, does he deserve it after taking the life of someone and ruining the life of many more? That's assuming he doesn't kill someone again if he's let out. Like I said, we don't really know the circumstances of this murder, his sanity, his motive, his psychological profile, which should all have a huge influence on the decisions to be made in this situation I believe. wooee is this the room for phil 101?? e: More seriously what bearing does this one case have on whether it makes any sense to ban D&D in the prison? The only reason they even mention this guy is because he made an appeal. I guess I'm more arguing that it should be banned for this individual. Although I wasn't aware D&D was a popular phenomena in prisons these days. Anyone else think imagining prisoners playing D&D is just ridiculous anyways? The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows: 1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D 2.) someone help me out here? Thx but I dont need to reread the first post. This is a D&D ban for the entire prison. Not just for the one murderer. And wtf, if I was imprisoned that would make it 10x more likely for me to find a hobby like D&D so I have no idea where your "insane addiction" comes from. Maybe I'm already an insane addict cause I regularly watch korean dudes play a computer game. Insane addiction comes from the fact that if your life is miserable and not worth living without D&D, you write a 91 page paper on it, and love it so much you're willing to play it in prison around murderers, then you probably have an unhealthy addiction to it that is probably related to a lack of sanity or some other mental condition (which could be related to the stabbing and bludgeoning as well).
You have a wild imagination, where does it say his life is "not worth living without it"
Also your reasoning is so bad "to play it in prison around murderers"
He is a murderer himself, so why would he be afraid to be around others. It's possible but you're just imagining things, presuming things which might not be the case at all.
Those people he played that game with are probably his friends, no matter if they are thieves, murderers, rapists or whatever.
Either way, you're not even close to having even the slightest idea whether or not he has an "insane addiction" so all you can do is let your imagination run wild.
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He should play Shadowrun instead.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 02:34 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 02:04 Pioneer wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. (yes the other one is protecting society) And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation Murder doesn't necessarily equal death penalty. I know non americans have this stereotype that we love to kill inmates but in many states there is no death penalty and in the ones that have it it is hard to get a death penalty conviction. Life in prison is more common. ??? Where did I say that all murderers are sentenced to death? And btw I'm the one who called out BrTarolg for being too stereotypical about americans so dont tell me I am. Basically your post just supports the point that I was trying to make in mine. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 01:28 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation I'm not talking about prisoners in general. Like I said, it's completely situational, and in this situation we are talking about murderers (check the first post in the thread again). If a man is sentenced to life sentence in prison for murder, he really shouldn't be released back into society and rehabilitation should be mute (there are some exceptions). Who says this man's life is shit btw? He can't play D&D so his life isn't worth living? If you're even going to pretend to be arguing about rehabilitation, then you need to realize that this is obviously an unhealthy obsession that needs to be dropped. If his life is shit without D&D and it's the only simple pleasure then helping him move past his addiction should be the the first objective of rehabilitation. But go ahead and feed his unhealthy addiction, I'm sure that's a great way to rehabilitate him into society. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:56 des wrote:On January 31 2010 00:52 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:50 des wrote:
Also the article makes no mention of him getting life without chance for parole. What if D&D teaches him how to cooperate and do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and he gets out on parole and is a model citizen!! Even if it does, does he deserve it after taking the life of someone and ruining the life of many more? That's assuming he doesn't kill someone again if he's let out. Like I said, we don't really know the circumstances of this murder, his sanity, his motive, his psychological profile, which should all have a huge influence on the decisions to be made in this situation I believe. wooee is this the room for phil 101?? e: More seriously what bearing does this one case have on whether it makes any sense to ban D&D in the prison? The only reason they even mention this guy is because he made an appeal. I guess I'm more arguing that it should be banned for this individual. Although I wasn't aware D&D was a popular phenomena in prisons these days. Anyone else think imagining prisoners playing D&D is just ridiculous anyways? The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows: 1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D 2.) someone help me out here? Thx but I dont need to reread the first post. This is a D&D ban for the entire prison. Not just for the one murderer. And wtf, if I was imprisoned that would make it 10x more likely for me to find a hobby like D&D so I have no idea where your "insane addiction" comes from. Maybe I'm already an insane addict cause I regularly watch korean dudes play a computer game. Insane addiction comes from the fact that if your life is miserable and not worth living without D&D, you write a 91 page paper on it, and love it so much you're willing to play it in prison around murderers, then you probably have an unhealthy addiction to it that is probably related to a lack of sanity or some other mental condition (which could be related to the stabbing and bludgeoning as well). You have a wild imagination, where does it say his life is "not worth living without it" Also your reasoning is so bad "to play it in prison around murderers" He is a murderer himself, so why would he be afraid to be around others. It's possible but you're just imagining things, presuming things which might not be the case at all. Those people he played that game with are probably his friends, no matter if they are thieves, murderers, rapists or whatever. Either way, you're not even close to having even the slightest idea whether or not he has an "insane addiction" so all you can do is let your imagination run wild.
I do think I've got a pretty good imagination, but that isn't relevant to this at all.
It doesn't say in the article that his life is "not worth living without it", but a lot of people's arguments are assuming so.
The reasoning isn't bad, as mentioned before not all murderers are "cold-blooded" and not every murderer is just as threatening as the next one.
I'm not really imagining anything, we have very little information on this specific situation, but they doesn't mean one can't use induction.
I never said he had an insane addiction, that was relative to the argument that if the follow were true, he probably was addicted. The following are not known to be true, therefore it is in the context of that argument. You should read the posts I'm responding to, not just my post to get a full understanding what I'm saying.
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On January 31 2010 02:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 02:34 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 02:04 Pioneer wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. (yes the other one is protecting society) And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation Murder doesn't necessarily equal death penalty. I know non americans have this stereotype that we love to kill inmates but in many states there is no death penalty and in the ones that have it it is hard to get a death penalty conviction. Life in prison is more common. ??? Where did I say that all murderers are sentenced to death? And btw I'm the one who called out BrTarolg for being too stereotypical about americans so dont tell me I am. Basically your post just supports the point that I was trying to make in mine. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 01:28 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation I'm not talking about prisoners in general. Like I said, it's completely situational, and in this situation we are talking about murderers (check the first post in the thread again). If a man is sentenced to life sentence in prison for murder, he really shouldn't be released back into society and rehabilitation should be mute (there are some exceptions). Who says this man's life is shit btw? He can't play D&D so his life isn't worth living? If you're even going to pretend to be arguing about rehabilitation, then you need to realize that this is obviously an unhealthy obsession that needs to be dropped. If his life is shit without D&D and it's the only simple pleasure then helping him move past his addiction should be the the first objective of rehabilitation. But go ahead and feed his unhealthy addiction, I'm sure that's a great way to rehabilitate him into society. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:56 des wrote:On January 31 2010 00:52 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:50 des wrote:
Also the article makes no mention of him getting life without chance for parole. What if D&D teaches him how to cooperate and do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and he gets out on parole and is a model citizen!! Even if it does, does he deserve it after taking the life of someone and ruining the life of many more? That's assuming he doesn't kill someone again if he's let out. Like I said, we don't really know the circumstances of this murder, his sanity, his motive, his psychological profile, which should all have a huge influence on the decisions to be made in this situation I believe. wooee is this the room for phil 101?? e: More seriously what bearing does this one case have on whether it makes any sense to ban D&D in the prison? The only reason they even mention this guy is because he made an appeal. I guess I'm more arguing that it should be banned for this individual. Although I wasn't aware D&D was a popular phenomena in prisons these days. Anyone else think imagining prisoners playing D&D is just ridiculous anyways? The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows: 1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D 2.) someone help me out here? Thx but I dont need to reread the first post. This is a D&D ban for the entire prison. Not just for the one murderer. And wtf, if I was imprisoned that would make it 10x more likely for me to find a hobby like D&D so I have no idea where your "insane addiction" comes from. Maybe I'm already an insane addict cause I regularly watch korean dudes play a computer game. Insane addiction comes from the fact that if your life is miserable and not worth living without D&D, you write a 91 page paper on it, and love it so much you're willing to play it in prison around murderers, then you probably have an unhealthy addiction to it that is probably related to a lack of sanity or some other mental condition (which could be related to the stabbing and bludgeoning as well). You have a wild imagination, where does it say his life is "not worth living without it" Also your reasoning is so bad "to play it in prison around murderers" He is a murderer himself, so why would he be afraid to be around others. It's possible but you're just imagining things, presuming things which might not be the case at all. Those people he played that game with are probably his friends, no matter if they are thieves, murderers, rapists or whatever. Either way, you're not even close to having even the slightest idea whether or not he has an "insane addiction" so all you can do is let your imagination run wild. I do think I've got a pretty good imagination, but that isn't relevant to this at all. It doesn't say in the article that his life is "not worth living without it", but a lot of people's arguments are assuming so. The reasoning isn't bad, as mentioned before not all murderers are "cold-blooded" and not every murderer is just as threatening as the next one. I'm not really imagining anything, we have very little information on this specific situation, but they doesn't mean one can't use induction. I never said he had an insane addiction, that was relative to the argument that if the follow were true, he probably was addicted. The following are not known to be true, therefore it is in the context of that argument. You should read the posts I'm responding to, not just my post to get a full understanding what I'm saying.
No you said the only circumstances for one to play D&D around murderers was to have an insane addiction. You couldnt think of any other way, and as soon as someone gave you a different reason you just neglected it by saying the same shitty "around murderers" arguement again.
And if you dont like the word imagination then let me replace it with the word speculation because speculating like crazy is exactly what you're doing.
Also no, not a single person in this thread has assumed that his life is worth living without D&D except for you. Some people, myself included, said that it's not right to take away everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living, a hobby you enjoy like D&D would be one of these things.
Btw if you were right that he did have a mental issue/was insane then this whole discussion would be even more pointless because then maybe he shouldn't even be in prison.
Oh and your "not all murderers are as cold blooded as the next one"argument.... EXACTLY so could you please stop with your horrible "around murderers" argument.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 02:54 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 02:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 02:34 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 02:04 Pioneer wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. (yes the other one is protecting society) And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation Murder doesn't necessarily equal death penalty. I know non americans have this stereotype that we love to kill inmates but in many states there is no death penalty and in the ones that have it it is hard to get a death penalty conviction. Life in prison is more common. ??? Where did I say that all murderers are sentenced to death? And btw I'm the one who called out BrTarolg for being too stereotypical about americans so dont tell me I am. Basically your post just supports the point that I was trying to make in mine. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 01:28 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation I'm not talking about prisoners in general. Like I said, it's completely situational, and in this situation we are talking about murderers (check the first post in the thread again). If a man is sentenced to life sentence in prison for murder, he really shouldn't be released back into society and rehabilitation should be mute (there are some exceptions). Who says this man's life is shit btw? He can't play D&D so his life isn't worth living? If you're even going to pretend to be arguing about rehabilitation, then you need to realize that this is obviously an unhealthy obsession that needs to be dropped. If his life is shit without D&D and it's the only simple pleasure then helping him move past his addiction should be the the first objective of rehabilitation. But go ahead and feed his unhealthy addiction, I'm sure that's a great way to rehabilitate him into society. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:56 des wrote:On January 31 2010 00:52 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:50 des wrote:
Also the article makes no mention of him getting life without chance for parole. What if D&D teaches him how to cooperate and do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and he gets out on parole and is a model citizen!! Even if it does, does he deserve it after taking the life of someone and ruining the life of many more? That's assuming he doesn't kill someone again if he's let out. Like I said, we don't really know the circumstances of this murder, his sanity, his motive, his psychological profile, which should all have a huge influence on the decisions to be made in this situation I believe. wooee is this the room for phil 101?? e: More seriously what bearing does this one case have on whether it makes any sense to ban D&D in the prison? The only reason they even mention this guy is because he made an appeal. I guess I'm more arguing that it should be banned for this individual. Although I wasn't aware D&D was a popular phenomena in prisons these days. Anyone else think imagining prisoners playing D&D is just ridiculous anyways? The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows: 1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D 2.) someone help me out here? Thx but I dont need to reread the first post. This is a D&D ban for the entire prison. Not just for the one murderer. And wtf, if I was imprisoned that would make it 10x more likely for me to find a hobby like D&D so I have no idea where your "insane addiction" comes from. Maybe I'm already an insane addict cause I regularly watch korean dudes play a computer game. Insane addiction comes from the fact that if your life is miserable and not worth living without D&D, you write a 91 page paper on it, and love it so much you're willing to play it in prison around murderers, then you probably have an unhealthy addiction to it that is probably related to a lack of sanity or some other mental condition (which could be related to the stabbing and bludgeoning as well). You have a wild imagination, where does it say his life is "not worth living without it" Also your reasoning is so bad "to play it in prison around murderers" He is a murderer himself, so why would he be afraid to be around others. It's possible but you're just imagining things, presuming things which might not be the case at all. Those people he played that game with are probably his friends, no matter if they are thieves, murderers, rapists or whatever. Either way, you're not even close to having even the slightest idea whether or not he has an "insane addiction" so all you can do is let your imagination run wild. I do think I've got a pretty good imagination, but that isn't relevant to this at all. It doesn't say in the article that his life is "not worth living without it", but a lot of people's arguments are assuming so. The reasoning isn't bad, as mentioned before not all murderers are "cold-blooded" and not every murderer is just as threatening as the next one. I'm not really imagining anything, we have very little information on this specific situation, but they doesn't mean one can't use induction. I never said he had an insane addiction, that was relative to the argument that if the follow were true, he probably was addicted. The following are not known to be true, therefore it is in the context of that argument. You should read the posts I'm responding to, not just my post to get a full understanding what I'm saying. No you said the only circumstances for one to play D&D around murderers was to have an insane addiction. You couldnt think of any other way, and as soon as someone gave you a different reason you just neglected it by saying the same shitty "around murderers" arguement again. And if you dont like the word imagination then let me replace it with the word speculation because speculating like crazy is exactly what you're doing. Also no, not a single person in this thread has assumed that his life is worth living without D&D except for you. Some people, myself included, said that it's not right to take away everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living, a hobby you enjoy like D&D would be one of these things. Btw if you were right that he did have a mental issue/was insane then this whole discussion would be even more pointless because then maybe he shouldn't even be in prison. Oh and your "not all murderers are as cold blooded as the next one"argument.... EXACTLY so could you please stop with your horrible "around murderers" argument.
Lol no, that's not true. I'm sorry you couldn't read this in it's context but since you didn't it's your fault for misunderstanding.
It's not speculation either, it's inductive inference. You probably think it's speculation because you completely miscomprehended what I said out of context.
Saying "it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living" is the same as saying
"a prisoner's life is not worth living without it"
I'm sorry but they're the same thing so yes, you and many others have said this.
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On January 31 2010 03:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 02:54 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 02:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 02:34 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 02:04 Pioneer wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. (yes the other one is protecting society) And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation Murder doesn't necessarily equal death penalty. I know non americans have this stereotype that we love to kill inmates but in many states there is no death penalty and in the ones that have it it is hard to get a death penalty conviction. Life in prison is more common. ??? Where did I say that all murderers are sentenced to death? And btw I'm the one who called out BrTarolg for being too stereotypical about americans so dont tell me I am. Basically your post just supports the point that I was trying to make in mine. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 01:28 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation I'm not talking about prisoners in general. Like I said, it's completely situational, and in this situation we are talking about murderers (check the first post in the thread again). If a man is sentenced to life sentence in prison for murder, he really shouldn't be released back into society and rehabilitation should be mute (there are some exceptions). Who says this man's life is shit btw? He can't play D&D so his life isn't worth living? If you're even going to pretend to be arguing about rehabilitation, then you need to realize that this is obviously an unhealthy obsession that needs to be dropped. If his life is shit without D&D and it's the only simple pleasure then helping him move past his addiction should be the the first objective of rehabilitation. But go ahead and feed his unhealthy addiction, I'm sure that's a great way to rehabilitate him into society. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:56 des wrote:On January 31 2010 00:52 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:50 des wrote:
Also the article makes no mention of him getting life without chance for parole. What if D&D teaches him how to cooperate and do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and he gets out on parole and is a model citizen!! Even if it does, does he deserve it after taking the life of someone and ruining the life of many more? That's assuming he doesn't kill someone again if he's let out. Like I said, we don't really know the circumstances of this murder, his sanity, his motive, his psychological profile, which should all have a huge influence on the decisions to be made in this situation I believe. wooee is this the room for phil 101?? e: More seriously what bearing does this one case have on whether it makes any sense to ban D&D in the prison? The only reason they even mention this guy is because he made an appeal. I guess I'm more arguing that it should be banned for this individual. Although I wasn't aware D&D was a popular phenomena in prisons these days. Anyone else think imagining prisoners playing D&D is just ridiculous anyways? The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows: 1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D 2.) someone help me out here? Thx but I dont need to reread the first post. This is a D&D ban for the entire prison. Not just for the one murderer. And wtf, if I was imprisoned that would make it 10x more likely for me to find a hobby like D&D so I have no idea where your "insane addiction" comes from. Maybe I'm already an insane addict cause I regularly watch korean dudes play a computer game. Insane addiction comes from the fact that if your life is miserable and not worth living without D&D, you write a 91 page paper on it, and love it so much you're willing to play it in prison around murderers, then you probably have an unhealthy addiction to it that is probably related to a lack of sanity or some other mental condition (which could be related to the stabbing and bludgeoning as well). You have a wild imagination, where does it say his life is "not worth living without it" Also your reasoning is so bad "to play it in prison around murderers" He is a murderer himself, so why would he be afraid to be around others. It's possible but you're just imagining things, presuming things which might not be the case at all. Those people he played that game with are probably his friends, no matter if they are thieves, murderers, rapists or whatever. Either way, you're not even close to having even the slightest idea whether or not he has an "insane addiction" so all you can do is let your imagination run wild. I do think I've got a pretty good imagination, but that isn't relevant to this at all. It doesn't say in the article that his life is "not worth living without it", but a lot of people's arguments are assuming so. The reasoning isn't bad, as mentioned before not all murderers are "cold-blooded" and not every murderer is just as threatening as the next one. I'm not really imagining anything, we have very little information on this specific situation, but they doesn't mean one can't use induction. I never said he had an insane addiction, that was relative to the argument that if the follow were true, he probably was addicted. The following are not known to be true, therefore it is in the context of that argument. You should read the posts I'm responding to, not just my post to get a full understanding what I'm saying. No you said the only circumstances for one to play D&D around murderers was to have an insane addiction. You couldnt think of any other way, and as soon as someone gave you a different reason you just neglected it by saying the same shitty "around murderers" arguement again. And if you dont like the word imagination then let me replace it with the word speculation because speculating like crazy is exactly what you're doing. Also no, not a single person in this thread has assumed that his life is worth living without D&D except for you. Some people, myself included, said that it's not right to take away everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living, a hobby you enjoy like D&D would be one of these things. Btw if you were right that he did have a mental issue/was insane then this whole discussion would be even more pointless because then maybe he shouldn't even be in prison. Oh and your "not all murderers are as cold blooded as the next one"argument.... EXACTLY so could you please stop with your horrible "around murderers" argument. Lol no, that's not true. I'm sorry you couldn't read this in it's context but since you didn't it's your fault for misunderstanding. It's not speculation either, it's inductive inference. You probably think it's speculation because you completely miscomprehended what I said out of context. Saying "it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living" is the same as saying "a prisoner's life is not worth living without it" I'm sorry but they're the same thing so yes, you and many others have said this.
Then quote one person who said this.
Saying you shouldnt take everything that makes a prisoners life worth living
IS NOT THE SAME AS "it's everything that makes a prisoners life worth living"
Yes those two sentence you just posted mean the same thing but thats not what I said so how about reading my post properly.
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On January 31 2010 03:08 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 03:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 02:54 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 02:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 02:34 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 02:04 Pioneer wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. (yes the other one is protecting society) And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation Murder doesn't necessarily equal death penalty. I know non americans have this stereotype that we love to kill inmates but in many states there is no death penalty and in the ones that have it it is hard to get a death penalty conviction. Life in prison is more common. ??? Where did I say that all murderers are sentenced to death? And btw I'm the one who called out BrTarolg for being too stereotypical about americans so dont tell me I am. Basically your post just supports the point that I was trying to make in mine. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 01:28 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation I'm not talking about prisoners in general. Like I said, it's completely situational, and in this situation we are talking about murderers (check the first post in the thread again). If a man is sentenced to life sentence in prison for murder, he really shouldn't be released back into society and rehabilitation should be mute (there are some exceptions). Who says this man's life is shit btw? He can't play D&D so his life isn't worth living? If you're even going to pretend to be arguing about rehabilitation, then you need to realize that this is obviously an unhealthy obsession that needs to be dropped. If his life is shit without D&D and it's the only simple pleasure then helping him move past his addiction should be the the first objective of rehabilitation. But go ahead and feed his unhealthy addiction, I'm sure that's a great way to rehabilitate him into society. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:56 des wrote:On January 31 2010 00:52 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:50 des wrote:
Also the article makes no mention of him getting life without chance for parole. What if D&D teaches him how to cooperate and do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and he gets out on parole and is a model citizen!! Even if it does, does he deserve it after taking the life of someone and ruining the life of many more? That's assuming he doesn't kill someone again if he's let out. Like I said, we don't really know the circumstances of this murder, his sanity, his motive, his psychological profile, which should all have a huge influence on the decisions to be made in this situation I believe. wooee is this the room for phil 101?? e: More seriously what bearing does this one case have on whether it makes any sense to ban D&D in the prison? The only reason they even mention this guy is because he made an appeal. I guess I'm more arguing that it should be banned for this individual. Although I wasn't aware D&D was a popular phenomena in prisons these days. Anyone else think imagining prisoners playing D&D is just ridiculous anyways? The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows: 1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D 2.) someone help me out here? Thx but I dont need to reread the first post. This is a D&D ban for the entire prison. Not just for the one murderer. And wtf, if I was imprisoned that would make it 10x more likely for me to find a hobby like D&D so I have no idea where your "insane addiction" comes from. Maybe I'm already an insane addict cause I regularly watch korean dudes play a computer game. Insane addiction comes from the fact that if your life is miserable and not worth living without D&D, you write a 91 page paper on it, and love it so much you're willing to play it in prison around murderers, then you probably have an unhealthy addiction to it that is probably related to a lack of sanity or some other mental condition (which could be related to the stabbing and bludgeoning as well). You have a wild imagination, where does it say his life is "not worth living without it" Also your reasoning is so bad "to play it in prison around murderers" He is a murderer himself, so why would he be afraid to be around others. It's possible but you're just imagining things, presuming things which might not be the case at all. Those people he played that game with are probably his friends, no matter if they are thieves, murderers, rapists or whatever. Either way, you're not even close to having even the slightest idea whether or not he has an "insane addiction" so all you can do is let your imagination run wild. I do think I've got a pretty good imagination, but that isn't relevant to this at all. It doesn't say in the article that his life is "not worth living without it", but a lot of people's arguments are assuming so. The reasoning isn't bad, as mentioned before not all murderers are "cold-blooded" and not every murderer is just as threatening as the next one. I'm not really imagining anything, we have very little information on this specific situation, but they doesn't mean one can't use induction. I never said he had an insane addiction, that was relative to the argument that if the follow were true, he probably was addicted. The following are not known to be true, therefore it is in the context of that argument. You should read the posts I'm responding to, not just my post to get a full understanding what I'm saying. No you said the only circumstances for one to play D&D around murderers was to have an insane addiction. You couldnt think of any other way, and as soon as someone gave you a different reason you just neglected it by saying the same shitty "around murderers" arguement again. And if you dont like the word imagination then let me replace it with the word speculation because speculating like crazy is exactly what you're doing. Also no, not a single person in this thread has assumed that his life is worth living without D&D except for you. Some people, myself included, said that it's not right to take away everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living, a hobby you enjoy like D&D would be one of these things. Btw if you were right that he did have a mental issue/was insane then this whole discussion would be even more pointless because then maybe he shouldn't even be in prison. Oh and your "not all murderers are as cold blooded as the next one"argument.... EXACTLY so could you please stop with your horrible "around murderers" argument. Lol no, that's not true. I'm sorry you couldn't read this in it's context but since you didn't it's your fault for misunderstanding. It's not speculation either, it's inductive inference. You probably think it's speculation because you completely miscomprehended what I said out of context. Saying "it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living" is the same as saying "a prisoner's life is not worth living without it" I'm sorry but they're the same thing so yes, you and many others have said this. Then quote one person who said this. Saying you shouldnt take everything that makes a prisoners life worth living IS NOT THE SAME AS "it's everything that makes a prisoners life worth living" Yes those two sentence you just posted mean the same thing but thats not what I said so how about reading my post properly.
Um, yes it is the same thing.
"you shouldn't take everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living"
Is an argument. The only thing that's being taken here is D&D, so that is substituted for "everything".
The argument is composed of the premise that "everything that make's a prisoner's life worth living is D&D"
It is what is being said and maybe you'll realize it once you cool off.
"Oh and your "not all murderers are as cold blooded as the next one"argument.... EXACTLY so could you please stop with your horrible "around murderers" argument."
It's not even a horrible argument and it fits perfectly fine in this context. For you to say a murderer can't be afraid of another murderer is a horrible argument.
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On January 31 2010 03:17 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 03:08 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 03:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 02:54 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 02:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 02:34 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 02:04 Pioneer wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. (yes the other one is protecting society) And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation Murder doesn't necessarily equal death penalty. I know non americans have this stereotype that we love to kill inmates but in many states there is no death penalty and in the ones that have it it is hard to get a death penalty conviction. Life in prison is more common. ??? Where did I say that all murderers are sentenced to death? And btw I'm the one who called out BrTarolg for being too stereotypical about americans so dont tell me I am. Basically your post just supports the point that I was trying to make in mine. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2010 01:28 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs. I don't think either of these are the priority. Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done. Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve. Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again. First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers. secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison. This is the case for almost every prisoner. Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done? Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation I'm not talking about prisoners in general. Like I said, it's completely situational, and in this situation we are talking about murderers (check the first post in the thread again). If a man is sentenced to life sentence in prison for murder, he really shouldn't be released back into society and rehabilitation should be mute (there are some exceptions). Who says this man's life is shit btw? He can't play D&D so his life isn't worth living? If you're even going to pretend to be arguing about rehabilitation, then you need to realize that this is obviously an unhealthy obsession that needs to be dropped. If his life is shit without D&D and it's the only simple pleasure then helping him move past his addiction should be the the first objective of rehabilitation. But go ahead and feed his unhealthy addiction, I'm sure that's a great way to rehabilitate him into society. Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 01:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:56 des wrote:On January 31 2010 00:52 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On January 31 2010 00:50 des wrote:
Also the article makes no mention of him getting life without chance for parole. What if D&D teaches him how to cooperate and do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and he gets out on parole and is a model citizen!! Even if it does, does he deserve it after taking the life of someone and ruining the life of many more? That's assuming he doesn't kill someone again if he's let out. Like I said, we don't really know the circumstances of this murder, his sanity, his motive, his psychological profile, which should all have a huge influence on the decisions to be made in this situation I believe. wooee is this the room for phil 101?? e: More seriously what bearing does this one case have on whether it makes any sense to ban D&D in the prison? The only reason they even mention this guy is because he made an appeal. I guess I'm more arguing that it should be banned for this individual. Although I wasn't aware D&D was a popular phenomena in prisons these days. Anyone else think imagining prisoners playing D&D is just ridiculous anyways? The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows: 1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D 2.) someone help me out here? Thx but I dont need to reread the first post. This is a D&D ban for the entire prison. Not just for the one murderer. And wtf, if I was imprisoned that would make it 10x more likely for me to find a hobby like D&D so I have no idea where your "insane addiction" comes from. Maybe I'm already an insane addict cause I regularly watch korean dudes play a computer game. Insane addiction comes from the fact that if your life is miserable and not worth living without D&D, you write a 91 page paper on it, and love it so much you're willing to play it in prison around murderers, then you probably have an unhealthy addiction to it that is probably related to a lack of sanity or some other mental condition (which could be related to the stabbing and bludgeoning as well). You have a wild imagination, where does it say his life is "not worth living without it" Also your reasoning is so bad "to play it in prison around murderers" He is a murderer himself, so why would he be afraid to be around others. It's possible but you're just imagining things, presuming things which might not be the case at all. Those people he played that game with are probably his friends, no matter if they are thieves, murderers, rapists or whatever. Either way, you're not even close to having even the slightest idea whether or not he has an "insane addiction" so all you can do is let your imagination run wild. I do think I've got a pretty good imagination, but that isn't relevant to this at all. It doesn't say in the article that his life is "not worth living without it", but a lot of people's arguments are assuming so. The reasoning isn't bad, as mentioned before not all murderers are "cold-blooded" and not every murderer is just as threatening as the next one. I'm not really imagining anything, we have very little information on this specific situation, but they doesn't mean one can't use induction. I never said he had an insane addiction, that was relative to the argument that if the follow were true, he probably was addicted. The following are not known to be true, therefore it is in the context of that argument. You should read the posts I'm responding to, not just my post to get a full understanding what I'm saying. No you said the only circumstances for one to play D&D around murderers was to have an insane addiction. You couldnt think of any other way, and as soon as someone gave you a different reason you just neglected it by saying the same shitty "around murderers" arguement again. And if you dont like the word imagination then let me replace it with the word speculation because speculating like crazy is exactly what you're doing. Also no, not a single person in this thread has assumed that his life is worth living without D&D except for you. Some people, myself included, said that it's not right to take away everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living, a hobby you enjoy like D&D would be one of these things. Btw if you were right that he did have a mental issue/was insane then this whole discussion would be even more pointless because then maybe he shouldn't even be in prison. Oh and your "not all murderers are as cold blooded as the next one"argument.... EXACTLY so could you please stop with your horrible "around murderers" argument. Lol no, that's not true. I'm sorry you couldn't read this in it's context but since you didn't it's your fault for misunderstanding. It's not speculation either, it's inductive inference. You probably think it's speculation because you completely miscomprehended what I said out of context. Saying "it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living" is the same as saying "a prisoner's life is not worth living without it" I'm sorry but they're the same thing so yes, you and many others have said this. Then quote one person who said this. Saying you shouldnt take everything that makes a prisoners life worth living IS NOT THE SAME AS "it's everything that makes a prisoners life worth living" Yes those two sentence you just posted mean the same thing but thats not what I said so how about reading my post properly. Um, yes it is the same thing. "you shouldn't take everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living" Is an argument. The only thing that's being taken here is D&D, so that is substituted for "everything". The argument is composed of the premise that "everything that make's a prisoner's life worth living is D&D" It is what is being said and maybe you'll realize it once you cool off. "Oh and your "not all murderers are as cold blooded as the next one"argument.... EXACTLY so could you please stop with your horrible "around murderers" argument." It's not even a horrible argument and it fits perfectly fine in this context. For you to say a murderer can't be afraid of another murderer is a horrible argument.
my god you dont understand the simplest concepts do you.
People said this as a response to other people saying "well its prison youre not supposed to enjoy shit"
It was about prisoners not being allowed to do hobbies they enjoy, the D&D game mentioned in the OP is the example we have here, that doesnt mean that we must limit ourselves to talk about just this one thing and not see the bigger picture here.
For you to say a murderer can't be afraid of another murderer is a horrible argument.
You say "its insane to play this game around murderers"
I say "its not insane, they might be his friends, whatever they have done. And since he is a murderer himself I dont think he wont be like "I'll never get near anyone who is a murderer"
Now you see what is really different about the two of us though is that I said "it's possible you're right" I dont know for sure, maybe he is afraid of other murderers (although if hes playing D&D with them maybe not lolol) but to say that if he is not that must mean is insane is just stupid and you are not basing this on ANY logical argument.
Oh and once more, give me ONE example where some one either said
"it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living"
or
"a prisoner's life is not worth living without it"
you said "you and many others have said this."
so give me JUST ONE in the entire thread.
Please, give me one example or admit you're wrong. If you dont do either I'll stop wasting my time here.
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Canada5565 Posts
sweet...now they're more pissed off and bored than before
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WOW I didn't know prisoners had fantasies of escaping prision1!!1!! I guess D&D gives them that "urge". Me personally have urges to kill mass amounts of people whenever I play starcraft! Who would've thought..
OH my! The thought of prison time going by faster makes the state of Wisconsin so furious! Its not bad enough that they are confined in a building for 5+ years on top of that they need to take away a simple board game away. I guess they can make up a new board game if they are desperate enough.
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This is extremely ridiculous. In order to argue that this isn't extremely ridiculous, you must be arguing that D&D does foster dangerous behaviors. Is anyone here going to argue for that?
P.S: not everyone in prison has murdered/raped people. Ignoramuses
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I don't get it, why do we put people in jail and give them no hope, no way to get through? Why not just execute them?
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On January 31 2010 03:39 7mk wrote:
my god you dont understand the simplest concepts do you.
People said this as a response to other people saying "well its prison youre not supposed to enjoy shit"
It was about prisoners not being allowed to do hobbies they enjoy, the D&D game mentioned in the OP is the example we have here, that doesnt mean that we must limit ourselves to talk about just this one thing and not see the bigger picture here.
I'm sorry if you're incapable of expressing your argument explicitly, but you shouldn't be mad when people interpret incorrectly if you're not going to say what you mean and mean what you say. It isn't about prisoners not being able to do hobbies they enjoy, it's specifically related to D&D. The supreme court ruling didn't ban hobbies, it banned D&D. Please stop making assumptions and speculating (funny how you accused me of doing it when you've done it the entire time) a "bigger picture" when none of it is mentioned as being banned because it isn't relevant.
For you to say a murderer can't be afraid of another murderer is a horrible argument.
You say "its insane to play this game around murderers"
I say "its not insane, they might be his friends, whatever they have done. And since he is a murderer himself I dont think he wont be like "I'll never get near anyone who is a murderer"
Now you see what is really different about the two of us though is that I said "it's possible you're right" I dont know for sure, maybe he is afraid of other murderers (although if hes playing D&D with them maybe not lolol) but to say that if he is not that must mean is insane is just stupid and you are not basing this on ANY logical argument.
Oh and once more, give me ONE example where some one either said
"it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living"
or
"a prisoner's life is not worth living without it"
you said "you and many others have said this."
so give me JUST ONE in the entire thread.
Please, give me one example or admit you're wrong. If you dont do either I'll stop wasting my time here.
I said you've gotta be pretty crazy to play this game in prison. I'm sure he obviously has at least one friend he plays it with (I doubt he plays D&D alone, although it's possible).
Now you're just going into personal attacks and hypocrisy, along with assumptions, speculation, and taking everything in my argument with certainty when there's obviously uncertainty in situational circumstances which will affect the outcome of how one might judge this man for playing D&D in a prison.
Okay here's a quote, not only of you saying it but claiming that others have said it:
"Some people, myself included, said that it's not right to take away everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living, a hobby you enjoy like D&D would be one of these things."
So you might want to settle down because you're being inconsistent now.
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thought this was about coffee at first =P
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V:tM is much better, play that
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On January 31 2010 03:59 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 03:39 7mk wrote:
my god you dont understand the simplest concepts do you.
People said this as a response to other people saying "well its prison youre not supposed to enjoy shit"
It was about prisoners not being allowed to do hobbies they enjoy, the D&D game mentioned in the OP is the example we have here, that doesnt mean that we must limit ourselves to talk about just this one thing and not see the bigger picture here. I'm sorry if you're incapable of expressing your argument explicitly, but you shouldn't be mad when people interpret incorrectly if you're not going to say what you mean and mean what you say. It isn't about prisoners not being able to do hobbies they enjoy, it's specifically related to D&D. The supreme court ruling didn't ban hobbies, it banned D&D. Please stop making assumptions and speculating (funny how you accused me of doing it when you've done it the entire time) a "bigger picture" when none of it is mentioned as being banned because it isn't relevant. Show nested quote +For you to say a murderer can't be afraid of another murderer is a horrible argument. Show nested quote +You say "its insane to play this game around murderers"
I say "its not insane, they might be his friends, whatever they have done. And since he is a murderer himself I dont think he wont be like "I'll never get near anyone who is a murderer"
Now you see what is really different about the two of us though is that I said "it's possible you're right" I dont know for sure, maybe he is afraid of other murderers (although if hes playing D&D with them maybe not lolol) but to say that if he is not that must mean is insane is just stupid and you are not basing this on ANY logical argument.
Oh and once more, give me ONE example where some one either said
"it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living"
or
"a prisoner's life is not worth living without it"
you said "you and many others have said this."
so give me JUST ONE in the entire thread.
Please, give me one example or admit you're wrong. If you dont do either I'll stop wasting my time here. I said you've gotta be pretty crazy to play this game in prison. I'm sure he obviously has at least one friend he plays it with (I doubt he plays D&D alone, although it's possible). Now you're just going into personal attacks and hypocrisy, along with assumptions, speculation, and taking everything in my argument with certainty when there's obviously uncertainty in situational circumstances which will affect the outcome of how one might judge this man for playing D&D in a prison. Okay here's a quote, not only of you saying it but claiming that others have said it: "Some people, myself included, said that it's not right to take away everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living, a hobby you enjoy like D&D would be one of these things." So you might want to settle down because you're being inconsistent now.
God how stupid are you I already explained to you that it's not the same thing, try again.
But since you are full of shit and you will simply not find a single sentence saying what you claimed we said I guess this will be my last post here, unless you get over yourself and at least admit you were wrong about that one part.
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I just want to throw this into the discussion about the point of prison (rehabilitation/protection vs punishment/protection): An extremely important function of prison is the preventation of crime, as in scaring people into not committing them. I'm really surprised this has'nt been adressed in the discussion, it's basically the main point of any punishment.
More OT: This is a really stupid decision, something as creative as DnD should be encouraged in prisons. Also I think depriving someone of the right to escape their own reality is borderline torture.
On January 30 2010 17:43 QuickStriker wrote:
Wow lol, I don't even.....
Maybe in the distant future where prisons are all highly equipped and prisoners are able to have their own personal computers or laptops in their rooms or somewhere, WOULD THEY BAN STARCRAFT TOO? For violence???
Think about that folks.
Lol, I'm pretty sure they allow laptops for inmates on low-security prisons in Sweden. With restrictions naturally.
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EPT
