Prison Bans D&D

On January 30 2010 15:51 meegrean wrote:
now what is this dungeon master going to do in prison on his free time now?

On January 30 2010 16:21 melingom wrote:
and the moral of the story? If you want to play D&D, it's probably not a good idea to bludgeon and stab your sister's boyfriend to death.

On January 30 2010 16:21 melingom wrote:
and the moral of the story? If you want to play D&D, it's probably not a good idea to bludgeon and stab your sister's boyfriend to death.

On January 30 2010 17:18 Draconizard wrote:
Prison life for those inmates with life sentences should consist of hard, menial labor.

On January 30 2010 17:24 Kwidowmaker wrote:


yo but after they could play D&D. playing a game and letting off steam gets rid of your stress and let's you escape the horrible reality you're in. you may scoff at worries over an inmate's psychology, but more content inmates means less violence and more ability to reintegrate into society. it's far too easy to just say fuckprisoners and ignore them once they get incarcerated, but they don't go away

On January 30 2010 17:31 Draconizard wrote:


No, there is no after; there is no before. The point is that there is nothing but that horrible reality. Note that I only advocate this for those inmates with life sentences without the chance for parole.

Prisoners with shorter sentences should still be subjected to hard labor but have it be interspersed with psychological conditioning and reeducation.

On January 30 2010 17:47 So no fek wrote:
I'm not exactly sober right now, so I can't really give much of an opinion on this.

While I agree that prison is essentially about punishment, and the judge's statement as such isn't exactly wrong, what are these prisoner going to do now? What they were doing wasn't exactly productive, but it was done in their own "free" time. If they now spend that free time engaging in other, more "prison like" activities, is it really their fault? They found a healthy-ish release, and the state is taking that away from them.

On January 30 2010 16:28 illu wrote:


Exactly. Prison is supposed to be a punishment; to allow prisoners to play D&D is not a punishment. Also, as far as I know, a prisoner does not enjoy the same Constitutional Rights.

Prison officials said they had banned the game at the recommendation of the prison’s specialist on gangs, who said it could lead to gang behavior and fantasies about escape.

Dungeons & Dragons could “foster an inmate’s obsession with escaping from the real-life correctional environment, fostering hostility, violence and escape behavior,” prison officials said in court. That could make it more difficult to rehabilitate prisoners and could endanger public safety, they said.

On January 30 2010 20:29 BrTarolg wrote:
I hate people who think prison should be about punishing and incarcerating people and torturing them for the rest of their lives

They are real human beings, with feelings and psychology. It is proven that having hobbies in prison drastically reduces violence and suicide rates

Just because they did something wrong, doesn't mean we should be stooping to their level and doing something wrong to them in return. It is our job as a society to show compassion for other humans regardless of who they are.
Its called being a philanthropist and having love for human life. The point of prison is about rehabilitation and prevention - otherwise you might aswell just put everyone to death and call it the cure.
Honestly it is such a stereotypical american, sadistic view that prison should be there to deprive their lives and make it as miserable and horrible as possible.

Honestly it is such a stereotypical american, sadistic view that prison should be there to deprive their lives and make it as miserable and horrible as possible.

On January 30 2010 20:38 Pioneer wrote:

Why should we show compassion for rapists, murders, pedophiles, thieves, etc. etc.? All they did was hurt society. Why should society try to help a negative and destructive influence to itself?

and people talking about rehabilitation are forgetting that many offenders become repeat offenders. Drug addicts tend to return to drugs when they are back outside, drug dealers tend to return to dealing, thieves tend to steal again.

Prison life should be a grind, forcing these parasites to not even want to live anymore.


Honestly, it's such a stereotypical European view that everyone should be best friends and pick daisies in the field together and live happily ever after. News flash, the real world doesn't work like that. You have people that get pleasure in abusing children, you have people that get pleasure in forcing themselves upon women. You have people that get pleasure in torturing then killing their fellow man.

Prison isn't a reward. They already get room and board from tax payers why should they be allowed to have fun?

Whenever you take away the rights of another person forcibly you should lose your rights.

On January 30 2010 20:38 Pioneer wrote:
Honestly, it's such a stereotypical European view that everyone should be best friends and pick daisies in the field together and live happily ever after. News flash, the real world doesn't work like that. You have people that get pleasure in abusing children, you have people that get pleasure in forcing themselves upon women. You have people that get pleasure in torturing then killing their fellow man.

Prison isn't a reward. They already get room and board from tax payers why should they be allowed to have fun?

Whenever you take away the rights of another person forcibly you should lose your rights.

On January 30 2010 20:38 Pioneer wrote:

Why should we show compassion for rapists, murders, pedophiles, thieves, etc. etc.? All they did was hurt society. Why should society try to help a negative and destructive influence to itself?

and people talking about rehabilitation are forgetting that many offenders become repeat offenders. Drug addicts tend to return to drugs when they are back outside, drug dealers tend to return to dealing, thieves tend to steal again.

Prison life should be a grind, forcing these parasites to not even want to live anymore.


Honestly, it's such a stereotypical European view that everyone should be best friends and pick daisies in the field together and live happily ever after. News flash, the real world doesn't work like that. You have people that get pleasure in abusing children, you have people that get pleasure in forcing themselves upon women. You have people that get pleasure in torturing then killing their fellow man.

Prison isn't a reward. They already get room and board from tax payers why should they be allowed to have fun?

Whenever you take away the rights of another person forcibly you should lose your rights.

On January 30 2010 20:29 BrTarolg wrote:
I hate people who think prison should be about punishing and incarcerating people and torturing them for the rest of their lives

They are real human beings, with feelings and psychology. It is proven that having hobbies in prison drastically reduces violence and suicide rates

Just because they did something wrong, doesn't mean we should be stooping to their level and doing something wrong to them in return. It is our job as a society to show compassion for other humans regardless of who they are.
Its called being a philanthropist and having love for human life. The point of prison is about rehabilitation and prevention - otherwise you might aswell just put everyone to death and call it the cure.
Honestly it is such a stereotypical american, sadistic view that prison should be there to deprive their lives and make it as miserable and horrible as possible.

On January 30 2010 21:20 Damian wrote:


So kill them all? It´s cheaper and faster...

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/04/usa--prison-nat.html

On January 30 2010 20:38 Pioneer wrote:
Honestly, it's such a stereotypical European view that everyone should be best friends and pick daisies in the field together and live happily ever after. News flash, the real world doesn't work like that. You have people that get pleasure in abusing children, you have people that get pleasure in forcing themselves upon women. You have people that get pleasure in torturing then killing their fellow man.

Prison isn't a reward. They already get room and board from tax payers why should they be allowed to have fun?

Whenever you take away the rights of another person forcibly you should lose your rights.

On January 30 2010 22:26 baubo wrote:
Don't have a problem with preventing prisoners from playing D&D. I mean, it's a prison. They should be able to limit freedom if they want.

That said, the reasons given are absolutely nothing short of HILARIOUS. I mean, because it promote gang and escape fantasies? Is this a joke? I mean, do they think prisoners would just read quietly like good little boys if they're not spending time playing D&D? Plus a Dungeon Master is NOTHING like a gang leader.

If you want to take away rights, at least give some good reasons.

On January 30 2010 22:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:

That's the great difference between Europe and US councerning Justice: for Europeans, prison should punish and correct the criminal. Prison is a punishment.

For Americans, justice is a revenge. You did something wrong? We do something wrong to you. Putting someone for the rest of his life in jail or even killing him is not a punishment. It's not hopping that he will understand, that he will pay his debt to seciety. It's a vengeance.

Now, your argument is wrong. And I see two reasons for this wrongness:

1- It's an inefficient approach. More repressive a state is, more violent are its citizen. There must be a reason why US is the thousand time more repressive than any European country (iirc, ten times more prisonners than in France proportionaly -that's fucking huuuuuuge), AND also has a higher criminality, murder rate than any European country.

2- Criminals are not just "bad". This right wing approach is silly. That's wrong for two reasons: 1- because people are not "free": that, we know since Freud. People are not equal. Some of us will never be criminals, and some will certainly be because of the past they had. And secondly because it's the society which creates criminals. And obviously, in such a nihilistic, individualistic, unfair society like the American one, you have a lot of criminals amongst people nobody give a fuck about.

People are not good or bad. They have different histories, and different context. When you get a society full of crimes, violences, and murders, it's aa bit too easy to say that some people are just bad and you should get rid of them. Question your society, and its obscenity.

On January 30 2010 23:08 StarsPride wrote:


The american justice system is a perfect example of a very flawed system. If you want my to quote my sources ill simply point and laugh at you.

On January 30 2010 23:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
the idea that prison is supposed to be about punishment is incredibly dehumanizing. it seriously saddens me that it's such a prevalent thought

On January 30 2010 23:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:

The fact it doesn't work doesn't make it less repressive.

0,7 % of the population is in jail in US. In France we are not even at 0,08%. Should be blind not to see the link between the repressivness of american justice and the violence of its society.

On January 30 2010 23:34 Foucault wrote:


What do you propose that we do with people who commit criminal acts then?

"Oh you robbed someone at gunpoint? You'll get to talk about it with a nice psychologist."


Of course it's about punishment, there is really no other option. It saddens me when people are leftist, politically correct prudes that is often the case up here.

On January 30 2010 23:34 StarsPride wrote:

trust me its not that the society is violent, many of those people in u.s jails are in for non violent crimes

On January 30 2010 23:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
the idea that prison is supposed to be about punishment is incredibly dehumanizing. it seriously saddens me that it's such a prevalent thought

On January 30 2010 23:34 Foucault wrote:


What do you propose that we do with people who commit criminal acts then?

"Oh you robbed someone at gunpoint? You'll get to talk about it with a nice psychologist."


Of course it's about punishment, there is really no other option. It saddens me when people are leftist, politically correct prudes that is often the case up here.

On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision.

On January 30 2010 23:40 Biff The Understudy wrote:

There are 5,6 murders for 100 000 people a year in US and 1,7 in France. Not violent at all, yeah. So 10 times more prisonners, 4 time more murders. That's quite good, dude.

On January 30 2010 23:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Wait, a punishment is not a vengeance. A punishement aim to correct people, to make them better. That's the contrary of a vengeance.

On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:

How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located.

You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game?

@ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught.

People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general.

'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance.

At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit.

Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke.

l o l

On January 30 2010 23:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:

You don't know anything about Freud, at all, so I will ignore the last part.

Now answer me. Why is it that there are a massive difference between the black and the white population in jail, proportionaly, in the US? There is only two answers

1- Because black people are poorer, come from harder background, ahve more difficult lives, etc etc, and therefore come to be criminals more often than white people, who generally have much more luck about how and where the were born.

2- Black people are more often bad than white.

Make your conclusions.

I will never be a criminal. I was born in a nice district, had a good education, good loving parents, have been supported financially to do what I liked in my life. That's not the case of everybody. The reason why there are criminals is firstly because some people nobody give a fuck about don't have the chances I had.


And please, when you really don't have any idea about a topic, rather than writing a pile of prejudices, learn a little bit about what you are talking about. Because you can criticize Freud, for many reasons, but that was really bad bad quality argumentation.

On January 30 2010 23:45 Jayme wrote:


Come back to me when your country has 300 million people and happens to be the third largest country in the world.

Size makes logistics a pain in the ass and it's a problem France simply does not have. There was a big trend downward in crime around here until the economy went bad. The true vast majority of our prison population is there for bullshit drug charges.

If there wasn't such a hardcore black market for drugs we'd probably see less murders. I don't like the US justice system that much but the correlation between "repression" and "violence" really isn't there. It is actually very difficult to get sent to life in prison without parole here.

For the record...try dealing with these so called "nice" criminals on a day to day basis. It's not an accident that people in the crappier parts of town have been arrested five to ten freaking times in their lives. Some people that do real crimes just can't be reformed. They were raised a certain way and they have a certain way of thinking. Good luck changing that.

On January 30 2010 23:54 XeliN wrote:
Prison should be primarily focused on both rehabilitation as well as protection (societies), like drone i'm suprised so many of you are advocating it be primarily for punishment, certainly there needs to be an element of punishment but for me the taking away of your freedom is enough.

On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:

How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located.

You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game?

@ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught.

People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general.

'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance.

At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit.

Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke.

l o l

On January 30 2010 23:34 Foucault wrote:


What do you propose that we do with people who commit criminal acts then?

"Oh you robbed someone at gunpoint? You'll get to talk about it with a nice psychologist."


Of course it's about punishment, there is really no other option. It saddens me when people are leftist, politically correct prudes that is often the case up here.

On January 30 2010 23:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:

You don't know anything about Freud, at all, so I will ignore the last part.

Now answer me. Why is it that there are a massive difference between the black and the white population in jail, proportionaly, in the US? There is only two answers

1- Because black people are poorer, come from harder background, ahve more difficult lives, etc etc, and therefore come to be criminals more often than white people, who generally have much more luck about how and where the were born.

2- Black people are more often bad than white.

Make your conclusions.

I will never be a criminal. I was born in a nice district, had a good education, good loving parents, have been supported financially to do what I liked in my life. That's not the case of everybody. The reason why there are criminals is firstly because some people nobody give a fuck about don't have the chances I had.


And please, when you really don't have any idea about a topic, rather than writing a pile of prejudices, learn a little bit about what you are talking about. Because you can criticize Freud, for many reasons, but that was really bad bad quality argumentation.

On January 30 2010 23:58 TS-Rupbar wrote:


I am not sure at all, but I can imagine that he did all this in his "free time". I would rather have him do something creative and benefitting to both himself and his cell mates than doing something that's not.

Honestly, I really don't believe that anyone "deserves" anything. What happened in the past cannot be reversed. While previous actions definitely show that one might do the same thing again (hence why putting criminals in prison is a good thing), it is useless to inflict punishment only for the reason of punishing. It doesn't help anyone.

I can relate to that he should make up for his actions, but cleaning up areas and stuff seems pretty unrealistic to me. Would you want prisoners cleaning up stuff in public? It would suck both for the common man and the prisoners themselves.

On January 30 2010 23:58 TS-Rupbar wrote:


I am not sure at all, but I can imagine that he did all this in his "free time". I would rather have him do something creative and benefitting to both himself and his cell mates than doing something that's not.

Honestly, I really don't believe that anyone "deserves" anything. What happened in the past cannot be reversed. While previous actions definitely show that one might do the same thing again (hence why putting criminals in prison is a good thing), it is useless to inflict punishment only for the reason of punishing. It doesn't help anyone.

I can relate to that he should make up for his actions, but cleaning up areas and stuff seems pretty unrealistic to me. Would you want prisoners cleaning up stuff in public? It would suck both for the common man and the prisoners themselves.

On January 31 2010 00:01 Pioneer wrote:

You think that being born in a good part of town makes you less likely to commit crime. You know the term white collar crime? Also, murder doesn't stop once you hit a certain income level.

Actually, minorities have a lot of considerations made to them in schools and the community. You also forget to take into account hispanic gangs and asian gangs (asian gangs tend to be much more brutal than black or hispanic ones and the asian population also tends to have a higher income ratio than other minorities so how does income help your argument?)

When you leave out the other major groups that inhabit the prison system it makes your argument look stupid.

Oh and tell me how I was wrong about Freud? Would you put weight behind the words of a coked out guy on the street? But you put them behind Freud, who by all accounts frequently took part in cocaine.

On January 30 2010 23:45 Jayme wrote:
Come back to me when your country has 300 million people and happens to be the third largest country in the world.

Size makes logistics a pain in the ass and it's a problem France simply does not have. There was a big trend downward in crime around here until the economy went bad. The true vast majority of our prison population is there for bullshit drug charges.

If there wasn't such a hardcore black market for drugs we'd probably see less murders. I don't like the US justice system that much but the correlation between "repression" and "violence" really isn't there. It is actually very difficult to get sent to life in prison without parole here.

For the record...try dealing with these so called "nice" criminals on a day to day basis. It's not an accident that people in the crappier parts of town have been arrested five to ten freaking times in their lives. Some people that do real crimes just can't be reformed. They were raised a certain way and they have a certain way of thinking. Good luck changing that.

On January 31 2010 00:04 TS-Rupbar wrote:


I wouldn't put weight behind words of someone who honestly believes that certain groups of people are more prone to commit crimes because of genes. How does that help your argument?

On January 31 2010 00:03 Pioneer wrote:

Prisoners are frequently taken out along highways to pick up trash and clean the general area. How is the any different from them going into a city (of course under close supervision) and scrubbing graffiti of walls.

On January 31 2010 00:01 Pioneer wrote:

You think that being born in a good part of town makes you less likely to commit crime. You know the term white collar crime? Also, murder doesn't stop once you hit a certain income level.

Actually, minorities have a lot of considerations made to them in schools and the community. You also forget to take into account hispanic gangs and asian gangs (asian gangs tend to be much more brutal than black or hispanic ones and the asian population also tends to have a higher income ratio than other minorities so how does income help your argument?)

When you leave out the other major groups that inhabit the prison system it makes your argument look stupid.

Oh and tell me how I was wrong about Freud? Would you put weight behind the words of a coked out guy on the street? But you put them behind Freud, who by all accounts frequently took part in cocaine.

On January 31 2010 00:06 Damian wrote:

There is still a trend that there is less crime in the US, but the number of prisoners tripled since 1980 and is still on a steady rise. There are around 2.5 million people in US prisons and 1 million of them didnt even commit violent crimes. Hell, every 10 black male at 23 till 29 is in jail.
It is not only logistic problem, there are many problems with the US system (justice, social, integration, you name it). As I dont have to pay around 20 000 - 30 000 $ per year per prisoner (5 000 000 000 - 7 500 000 000 $ per year) I really dont care that much - it´s not my money...

On another note: How do you know that the guy hasnt worked 10 or 12 hours a day, like cleaning a road or sth? We know too few about the whole incident. Maybe he needed years to write the 96 pages? We simply dont know...

On January 31 2010 00:07 Pioneer wrote:

Did you misquote me or something or am I missing where I said that people are genetically predisposed to crime.

On January 31 2010 00:09 StarsPride wrote:

well ur chinese, ur already brainwashed by ur government i wouldn't expect you to understand why we call this unacceptable

On January 31 2010 00:08 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Sigh.

Obviously you have criminals in all part of the society. And obvisouly you have different kind of criminality. Now if you don't see that you get more chances to end up in jail if you were born in Harlem than in a nice district of Boston, I am sorry for you, and I won't even try to explain you.

You clearly didn't unnderstand my argument about black people. Read again. Please.

Now about Freud, one more time, I am sorry to tell you that it's very very clear by reading what you wrote that you don't have any idea of his theory, that haven't read a line of him, and that you are just based on silly prejudice. Most of intellectuals were doing opiacées at this time, Cocain or Opium. If that's how you judge a scientist, I can't say much.

On January 31 2010 00:15 Pioneer wrote:

Of course you're going to have more theft (and with theft comes murder) in a lower income area than a higher income area but just because the nature of the crimes are changed doesn't mean the amount or severity of them are different.

Also, it does detract from my opinion of intellectuals, especially of psychoanalysts who work in an already murky study, when they are strung out on opiates or hyped up because of cocaine.

On January 31 2010 00:09 StarsPride wrote:
well ur chinese, ur already brainwashed by ur government i wouldn't expect you to understand why we call this unacceptable

On January 31 2010 00:15 Pioneer wrote:Of course you're going to have more theft (and with theft comes murder) in a lower income area than a higher income area but just because the nature of the crimes are changed doesn't mean the amount or severity of them are different.

Also, it does detract from my opinion of intellectuals, especially of psychoanalysts who work in an already murky study, when they are strung out on opiates or hyped up because of cocaine.

On January 31 2010 00:09 StarsPride wrote:

well ur chinese, ur already brainwashed by ur government i wouldn't expect you to understand why we call this unacceptable

On January 31 2010 00:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
This is a silly thread trying to justify that cold-blooded murderers should be allowed to play fucking games in prison, are you serious? We don't really know the circumstances of the murder, but if your girlfriends crazy brother fucking killed you, would you think it's fair get he gets to play D&D?

Not to mention the fact that the judges decision is basically right regardless of the obvious fact mentioned above.

On January 30 2010 19:21 nttea wrote:
I'm a firm believer that prison is essentially about rehabilitation and not about punishment, let the murderers and rapists have their D&D ffs.

On January 31 2010 00:50 des wrote:
Also the article makes no mention of him getting life without chance for parole. What if D&D teaches him how to cooperate and do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and he gets out on parole and is a model citizen!!

On January 31 2010 00:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:


I don't think either of these are the priority.

Punishment doesn't undo the murder they did, the rape they made, the harm they've done.

Rehabilitation is giving someone who ruined another's life another chance, something that they arguably don't deserve.

Prison should be about preventing further damage from the criminal in society, locking them away (or death penalty) so they can't do any more harm than they've already done. Rehabilitation should be there for lesser crimes, and punishment is having to pay for what you did, but neither of these things are as important as preventing it from happening again.

On January 31 2010 00:52 GGTeMpLaR wrote:


Even if it does, does he deserve it after taking the life of someone and ruining the life of many more?

That's assuming he doesn't kill someone again if he's let out. Like I said, we don't really know the circumstances of this murder, his sanity, his motive, his psychological profile, which should all have a huge influence on the decisions to be made in this situation I believe.

On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:


First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers.
secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison.
This is the case for almost every prisoner.
Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison.
And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done?
Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation

On January 31 2010 00:56 des wrote:


wooee is this the room for phil 101??

e: More seriously what bearing does this one case have on whether it makes any sense to ban D&D in the prison? The only reason they even mention this guy is because he made an appeal.

On January 30 2010 21:10 stenole wrote:
I guess from the perspective of a pious prison warden who hasn't played the game, D&D can seem pretty threatening.

On January 31 2010 01:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:

The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows:

1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D

2.) someone help me out here?

On January 31 2010 01:09 des wrote:


You're bored, prison sucks, D&D lets you get some human interaction into your day and have some fun? Murderers aren't all crazy motherfuckers, even the ones on life.

On January 31 2010 01:07 des wrote:
whoa when did he become addicted to d&d? presumably his life sucks without a distraction because he's in jail dogg.

On January 31 2010 01:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:


I'm not talking about prisoners in general. Like I said, it's completely situational, and in this situation we are talking about murderers (check the first post in the thread again).

If a man is sentenced to life sentence in prison for murder, he really shouldn't be released back into society and rehabilitation should be mute (there are some exceptions).

Who says this man's life is shit btw? He can't play D&D so his life isn't worth living? If you're even going to pretend to be arguing about rehabilitation, then you need to realize that this is obviously an unhealthy obsession that needs to be dropped. If his life is shit without D&D and it's the only simple pleasure then helping him move past his addiction should be the the first objective of rehabilitation.

But go ahead and feed his unhealthy addiction, I'm sure that's a great way to rehabilitate him into society.

On January 31 2010 01:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:


I guess I'm more arguing that it should be banned for this individual. Although I wasn't aware D&D was a popular phenomena in prisons these days.

Anyone else think imagining prisoners playing D&D is just ridiculous anyways?

The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows:

1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D

2.) someone help me out here?

On January 31 2010 01:31 Djzapz wrote:
Meh... Some people are in prison for close to no reason, or because of a mistake...

Taking their harmless means of entertainment away just goes to show the the system is messed up.

On January 31 2010 00:54 7mk wrote:


First of all, let's not pretend like a huge percentage of prisoners are murderers.
secondly, if a man isn't sentenced to death then he'll be released to society unless he dies in prison.
This is the case for almost every prisoner.
Meaning rehabilitation is one of the main purposes of prison. (yes the other one is protecting society)
And how are you gonna rehabilitate someone - by turning his life into shit and not giving him the slightest pleasures, nothing but a shitty life to amend for what he's done?
Yeah I'm sure that's a great way to achieve rehabilitation

On January 31 2010 02:04 Pioneer wrote:

Murder doesn't necessarily equal death penalty. I know non americans have this stereotype that we love to kill inmates but in many states there is no death penalty and in the ones that have it it is hard to get a death penalty conviction. Life in prison is more common.

On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Insane addiction comes from the fact that if your life is miserable and not worth living without D&D, you write a 91 page paper on it, and love it so much you're willing to play it in prison around murderers, then you probably have an unhealthy addiction to it that is probably related to a lack of sanity or some other mental condition (which could be related to the stabbing and bludgeoning as well).

On January 31 2010 02:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I do think I've got a pretty good imagination, but that isn't relevant to this at all.

It doesn't say in the article that his life is "not worth living without it", but a lot of people's arguments are assuming so.

The reasoning isn't bad, as mentioned before not all murderers are "cold-blooded" and not every murderer is just as threatening as the next one.

I'm not really imagining anything, we have very little information on this specific situation, but they doesn't mean one can't use induction.

I never said he had an insane addiction, that was relative to the argument that if the follow were true, he probably was addicted. The following are not known to be true, therefore it is in the context of that argument. You should read the posts I'm responding to, not just my post to get a full understanding what I'm saying.

On January 31 2010 03:05 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Lol no, that's not true. I'm sorry you couldn't read this in it's context but since you didn't it's your fault for misunderstanding.

It's not speculation either, it's inductive inference. You probably think it's speculation because you completely miscomprehended what I said out of context.

Saying "it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living" is the same as saying

"a prisoner's life is not worth living without it"

I'm sorry but they're the same thing so yes, you and many others have said this.

On January 31 2010 03:08 7mk wrote:


Then quote one person who said this.

Saying you shouldnt take everything that makes a prisoners life worth living
IS NOT THE SAME AS "it's everything that makes a prisoners life worth living"
Yes those two sentence you just posted mean the same thing but thats not what I said so how about reading my post properly.

On January 31 2010 03:17 GGTeMpLaR wrote:


Um, yes it is the same thing.

"you shouldn't take everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living"
Is an argument. The only thing that's being taken here is D&D, so that is substituted for "everything".

The argument is composed of the premise that "everything that make's a prisoner's life worth living is D&D"

It is what is being said and maybe you'll realize it once you cool off.

"Oh and your "not all murderers are as cold blooded as the next one"argument.... EXACTLY so could you please stop with your horrible "around murderers" argument."

It's not even a horrible argument and it fits perfectly fine in this context. For you to say a murderer can't be afraid of another murderer is a horrible argument.

For you to say a murderer can't be afraid of another murderer is a horrible argument.

On January 31 2010 03:39 7mk wrote:
my god you dont understand the simplest concepts do you.
People said this as a response to other people saying "well its prison youre not supposed to enjoy shit"
It was about prisoners not being allowed to do hobbies they enjoy, the D&D game mentioned in the OP is the example we have here, that doesnt mean that we must limit ourselves to talk about just this one thing and not see the bigger picture here.

For you to say a murderer can't be afraid of another murderer is a horrible argument.

You say "its insane to play this game around murderers"
I say "its not insane, they might be his friends, whatever they have done. And since he is a murderer himself I dont think he wont be like "I'll never get near anyone who is a murderer"

Now you see what is really different about the two of us though is that I said "it's possible you're right" I dont know for sure, maybe he is afraid of other murderers (although if hes playing D&D with them maybe not lolol) but to say that if he is not that must mean is insane is just stupid and you are not basing this on ANY logical argument.


Oh and once more, give me ONE example where some one either said

"it's everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living"
or
"a prisoner's life is not worth living without it"
you said "you and many others have said this."
so give me JUST ONE in the entire thread.
Please, give me one example or admit you're wrong. If you dont do either I'll stop wasting my time here.

On January 31 2010 03:59 GGTeMpLaR wrote:


I'm sorry if you're incapable of expressing your argument explicitly, but you shouldn't be mad when people interpret incorrectly if you're not going to say what you mean and mean what you say. It isn't about prisoners not being able to do hobbies they enjoy, it's specifically related to D&D. The supreme court ruling didn't ban hobbies, it banned D&D. Please stop making assumptions and speculating (funny how you accused me of doing it when you've done it the entire time) a "bigger picture" when none of it is mentioned as being banned because it isn't relevant.




I said you've gotta be pretty crazy to play this game in prison. I'm sure he obviously has at least one friend he plays it with (I doubt he plays D&D alone, although it's possible).

Now you're just going into personal attacks and hypocrisy, along with assumptions, speculation, and taking everything in my argument with certainty when there's obviously uncertainty in situational circumstances which will affect the outcome of how one might judge this man for playing D&D in a prison.

Okay here's a quote, not only of you saying it but claiming that others have said it:

"Some people, myself included, said that it's not right to take away everything that makes a prisoner's life worth living, a hobby you enjoy like D&D would be one of these things."

So you might want to settle down because you're being inconsistent now.

On January 30 2010 17:43 QuickStriker wrote:
Wow lol, I don't even.....

Maybe in the distant future where prisons are all highly equipped and prisoners are able to have their own personal computers or laptops in their rooms or somewhere, WOULD THEY BAN STARCRAFT TOO? For violence???

Think about that folks.

On January 31 2010 04:15 Makhno wrote:
I just want to throw this into the discussion about the point of prison (rehabilitation/protection vs punishment/protection): An extremely important function of prison is the preventation of crime, as in scaring people into not committing them. I'm really surprised this has'nt been adressed in the discussion, it's basically the main point of any punishment.

More OT: This is a really stupid decision, something as creative as DnD should be encouraged in prisons. Also I think depriving someone of the right to escape their own reality is borderline torture.



Lol, I'm pretty sure they allow laptops for inmates on low-security prisons in Sweden. With restrictions naturally.

On January 31 2010 04:11 7mk wrote:


God how stupid are you I already explained to you that it's not the same thing, try again.
But since you are full of shit and you will simply not find a single sentence saying what you claimed we said I guess this will be my last post here, unless you get over yourself and at least admit you were wrong about that one part.

On January 31 2010 04:22 GGTeMpLaR wrote:


I've explained already how it is the same, I guess it went over your head so you just ignored it. If you want to actually read the explanation and if you analyze it some I'm sure you can figure it out on your own but I'm done trying to enlighten you because you're not only incompetent, but you're rude and I'm not going to help an ingrate. GL in the future.

On January 31 2010 03:46 Saturnize wrote:
WOW I didn't know prisoners had fantasies of escaping prision1!!1!! I guess D&D gives them that "urge". Me personally have urges to kill mass amounts of people whenever I play starcraft! Who would've thought..
.

On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I guess I'm more arguing that it should be banned for this individual. Although I wasn't aware D&D was a popular phenomena in prisons these days.

Anyone else think imagining prisoners playing D&D is just ridiculous anyways?

The circumstances for one to play D&D in a prison full of murderers must be as follows:

1.) You have an insane addiction to D&D

2.) someone help me out here?

On January 31 2010 01:33 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Insane addiction comes from the fact that if your life is miserable and not worth living without D&D, you write a 91 page paper on it, and love it so much you're willing to play it in prison around murderers, then you probably have an unhealthy addiction to it that is probably related to a lack of sanity or some other mental condition (which could be related to the stabbing and bludgeoning as well).

On January 31 2010 06:07 Zack1900 wrote:
I think that his actions like writing the 96 page manuscript don't seem sane until you realize that he has lots of spare time with little to fill it. If after his day of work (lets hope that he does something so he can contribute in some way to society) he feels like hanging out with his prison friends and playing a game then he should be allowed to. I believe that prisoners should be punished, but only to much in necessary. Make them work for very little pay (about a dollar an hour sounds good), and let them use their free time in a manor that doesn't hurt anyone. I feel that being forced to work for near nothing for years (or a life time) and having no freedom is enough punishment. The only thing that I can see being worse is locking him in a dark box and only remembering he's there when it is time to feed him which is good for no one involved.

On January 31 2010 06:32 D10 wrote:
I personally believe that there should be no prisons, only psychiatric hospitals for different kinds of disease (obviously some of them will be pretty much like a prison, but most wont) and focused on making the individual work in society again.

And I think in this specific case, whoever was in charge of the decision to ban D&D was to hasty, he could have used it as a tool to reach this goal of social rehab, instead of just following the "What ? No!" bandwagon.

On January 30 2010 23:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
the idea that prison is supposed to be about punishment is incredibly dehumanizing. it seriously saddens me that it's such a prevalent thought

On January 31 2010 06:55 orgolove wrote:




Tell me that when your sister gets bludgeoned and stabbed to death. Will you not wish for death or extreme suffering for the perpetrator?

On January 31 2010 07:02 D10 wrote:


No I wouldnt, it wouldnt bring me her back, I want him to understand that he was wrong and mentally sick and be reinstated into society in a organized and healthy way, playing D&D.

On January 31 2010 07:06 orgolove wrote:



Wow. I will have nothing to do with you. I can't believe that you think that way.


If a criminal destroys one's life, then his life must similarily be destroyed.

On January 31 2010 07:12 D10 wrote:


Why? Does that fix anything ? What wicked sense of justice is this you seek ?

As a species, I believe criminals are sick people uncapable to truly understand how important laws are, we shouldnt lose 2 people because one murdered the other, death of the ones we love is enough, must we become like him and spread suffering and pain to find peace ? I disagree.

We much break this horrible cycle of pain, and the only way to do it, is to understand that it doesnt matter how much pain one has caused you, it will never be cured by inflicting pain back on him.

On January 31 2010 07:12 D10 wrote:
What wicked sense of justice is this you seek ?

On January 31 2010 07:21 orgolove wrote:



So lets quantify it.

This is a case that happened in Korea a few months ago, called the Na-Young incident after the name of the child. (I'm sure other Koreans in this forum will know what I'm talking about)


Say you are a 12 year old child, a criminal brutally raped you.

Your organs are destroyed for life, you can never have children, and will forever be tethered to a Catheter/poop bag because your sphincter was destroyed.

That's 80 (average lifespan)-12=68 years of pain and suffering that the criminal inflicted upon you - your entire life.


Would you not wish the same upon the criminal scum? The absolute horror of living in such a manner makes me sick. I can't believe that you would allow the absolute lowest of humanity to continue exist with their two feet, feed them, and let them play games while their victims and relatives continue to suffer from unimaginable pain.


I don't even know why we are paying for their livelihood.

On January 31 2010 07:21 orgolove wrote:



So lets quantify it.

This is a case that happened in Korea a few months ago, called the Na-Young incident after the name of the child. (I'm sure other Koreans in this forum will know what I'm talking about)


Say you are a 12 year old child, a criminal brutally raped you.

Your organs are destroyed for life, you can never have children, and will forever be tethered to a Catheter/poop bag because your sphincter was destroyed.

That's 80 (average lifespan)-12=68 years of pain and suffering that the criminal inflicted upon you - your entire life.


Would you not wish the same upon the criminal scum? The absolute horror of living in such a manner makes me sick. I can't believe that you would allow the absolute lowest of humanity to continue exist with their two feet, feed them, and let them play games while their victims and relatives continue to suffer from unimaginable pain.


I don't even know why we are paying for their livelihood.

On January 31 2010 07:21 orgolove wrote:



So lets quantify it.

This is a case that happened in Korea a few months ago, called the Na-Young incident after the name of the child. (I'm sure other Koreans in this forum will know what I'm talking about)


Say you are a 12 year old child, a criminal brutally raped you.

Your organs are destroyed for life, you can never have children, and will forever be tethered to a Catheter/poop bag because your sphincter was destroyed.

That's 80 (average lifespan)-12=68 years of pain and suffering that the criminal inflicted upon you - your entire life.


Would you not wish the same upon the criminal scum? The absolute horror of living in such a manner makes me sick. I can't believe that you would allow the absolute lowest of humanity to continue exist with their two feet, feed them, and let them play games while their victims and relatives continue to suffer from unimaginable pain.


I don't even know why we are paying for their livelihood.

On January 30 2010 19:31 EchOne wrote:
To those arguing against the soul-crushing hard labor that Draconizard advocates with the argument that it goes against rehabilitation, I'd like to guess that his point was that in cases of life sentences, rehabilitation is not an issue. People spending their lives in prison will never again return to society, so they will never return any value to society other than via slave labor.

One morning on her way to school, Na-Young was dragged to a public toilet by a 50 year old strange man. He was under the influence of alcohol at the time of the incident, told by the police department which handled her case.

l Beaten and strangled:

He punched her face and stomach when she refused to take off her clothes. He then strangled her neck to make her pass out but when he didn’t succeed he held her head under the water of toilet seat until she did pass out. It was assumed he did this to make it easy to force himself on her. Up till this point, she was still conscious, said Na-Young when she was asked to describe everything she could remember. It was also confirmed by physical evidences.

l Violently raped and sexually tortured:

When she fell unconscious he made held her against the closed toilet seat cover then had penetrative intercourse (anal and vaginal). He then performed the same penetrative pistol action to her right ear. Her head and her ear were crushed against the water tank each time of his pistol action. Her right shoulder was also dislocated as a result.

l Injury of internal oragns and a rupture:

Thinking he had to destroy the evidence by cleaning her inside out of his semen, he pushed her face down in the toilet again to wash her ears. He then used a pump (used for blocked toilets) on her via anus in attempt to extract his semen which lead to severe rupture of her large intestine where he, this time, tried to push the organs back inside her using the long stick of the pump. During this process, he damaged her genital organs completely.

l Attempt to destroy the evidences and cover up the crime scene:

He tried to clean her up. Flushed her blood and other traces of her organs down the toilet, washed her and made her sit upright but decides to have another intercourse. When he was finally done and satisfied, he ran away leaving Na-Young to die.

On January 31 2010 10:31 orgolove wrote:



Tell me if this piece of shit does not demand the death sentence.

On January 30 2010 15:58 MasterDana wrote:


make more campaigns.

On January 30 2010 16:28 illu wrote:


Exactly. Prison is supposed to be a punishment; to allow prisoners to play D&D is not a punishment. Also, as far as I know, a prisoner does not enjoy the same Constitutional Rights.

On January 31 2010 11:08 EchOne wrote:
I want to apologize if my comment regarding hard labor for life sentenced inmates sounded callous. I wasn't intending to discuss whether it was right or wrong. In fact I considered adding that whether or not this is humane or moral is a different story altogether. Personally I find forced labor and life imprisonment in general cruel and repugnant.

From a completely inhumane standpoint, though, improving the mental health of life prisoners has negligible benefits, since the kind of menial labor they may be assigned will be so unskilled that motivation won't improve productivity.

I have mixed feelings on prisoners' rights in general since many discussions in moral philosophy touch on the concept of a right to freedom, which clearly is being denied to life prisoners.

On January 31 2010 10:31 orgolove wrote:



Tell me if this piece of shit does not demand the death sentence.