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On January 30 2010 23:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision. How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located. You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game? @ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught. People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general. 'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance. At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit. Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke. l o l You don't know anything about Freud, at all, so I will ignore the last part. Now answer me. Why is it that there are a massive difference between the black and the white population in jail, proportionaly, in the US? There is only two answers 1- Because black people are poorer, come from harder background, ahve more difficult lives, etc etc, and therefore come to be criminals more often than white people, who generally have much more luck about how and where the were born. 2- Black people are more often bad than white. Make your conclusions. I will never be a criminal. I was born in a nice district, had a good education, good loving parents, have been supported financially to do what I liked in my life. That's not the case of everybody. The reason why there are criminals is firstly because some people nobody give a fuck about don't have the chances I had. And please, when you really don't have any idea about a topic, rather than writing a pile of prejudices, learn a little bit about what you are talking about. Because you can criticize Freud, for many reasons, but that was really bad bad quality argumentation.
You think that being born in a good part of town makes you less likely to commit crime. You know the term white collar crime? Also, murder doesn't stop once you hit a certain income level.
Actually, minorities have a lot of considerations made to them in schools and the community. You also forget to take into account hispanic gangs and asian gangs (asian gangs tend to be much more brutal than black or hispanic ones and the asian population also tends to have a higher income ratio than other minorities so how does income help your argument?)
When you leave out the other major groups that inhabit the prison system it makes your argument look stupid.
Oh and tell me how I was wrong about Freud? Would you put weight behind the words of a coked out guy on the street? But you put them behind Freud, who by all accounts frequently took part in cocaine.
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On January 30 2010 23:58 TS-Rupbar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision. How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located. You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game? @ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught. People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general. 'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance. At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit. Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke. l o l I am not sure at all, but I can imagine that he did all this in his "free time". I would rather have him do something creative and benefitting to both himself and his cell mates than doing something that's not. Honestly, I really don't believe that anyone "deserves" anything. What happened in the past cannot be reversed. While previous actions definitely show that one might do the same thing again (hence why putting criminals in prison is a good thing), it is useless to inflict punishment only for the reason of punishing. It doesn't help anyone. I can relate to that he should make up for his actions, but cleaning up areas and stuff seems pretty unrealistic to me. Would you want prisoners cleaning up stuff in public? It would suck both for the common man and the prisoners themselves.
The fact is that the problem of what to do with criminals is a massively problematic thing. I can't encourage you too much to read Discipline and Punish by Michel Foucault to see how and when the prison was invented, why, and for which purposes.
There is no miracle solution. The real issue is how you consider the criminal: as a victim of an unfair society or as the bad one who deserves the worst. That's a question of perception, as is everything related to right or left wing discourse.
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On January 30 2010 23:58 TS-Rupbar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision. How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located. You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game? @ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught. People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general. 'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance. At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit. Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke. l o l I am not sure at all, but I can imagine that he did all this in his "free time". I would rather have him do something creative and benefitting to both himself and his cell mates than doing something that's not. Honestly, I really don't believe that anyone "deserves" anything. What happened in the past cannot be reversed. While previous actions definitely show that one might do the same thing again (hence why putting criminals in prison is a good thing), it is useless to inflict punishment only for the reason of punishing. It doesn't help anyone. I can relate to that he should make up for his actions, but cleaning up areas and stuff seems pretty unrealistic to me. Would you want prisoners cleaning up stuff in public? It would suck both for the common man and the prisoners themselves.
Prisoners are frequently taken out along highways to pick up trash and clean the general area. How is the any different from them going into a city (of course under close supervision) and scrubbing graffiti of walls.
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On January 31 2010 00:01 Pioneer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2010 23:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision. How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located. You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game? @ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught. People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general. 'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance. At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit. Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke. l o l You don't know anything about Freud, at all, so I will ignore the last part. Now answer me. Why is it that there are a massive difference between the black and the white population in jail, proportionaly, in the US? There is only two answers 1- Because black people are poorer, come from harder background, ahve more difficult lives, etc etc, and therefore come to be criminals more often than white people, who generally have much more luck about how and where the were born. 2- Black people are more often bad than white. Make your conclusions. I will never be a criminal. I was born in a nice district, had a good education, good loving parents, have been supported financially to do what I liked in my life. That's not the case of everybody. The reason why there are criminals is firstly because some people nobody give a fuck about don't have the chances I had. And please, when you really don't have any idea about a topic, rather than writing a pile of prejudices, learn a little bit about what you are talking about. Because you can criticize Freud, for many reasons, but that was really bad bad quality argumentation. You think that being born in a good part of town makes you less likely to commit crime. You know the term white collar crime? Also, murder doesn't stop once you hit a certain income level. Actually, minorities have a lot of considerations made to them in schools and the community. You also forget to take into account hispanic gangs and asian gangs (asian gangs tend to be much more brutal than black or hispanic ones and the asian population also tends to have a higher income ratio than other minorities so how does income help your argument?) When you leave out the other major groups that inhabit the prison system it makes your argument look stupid. Oh and tell me how I was wrong about Freud? Would you put weight behind the words of a coked out guy on the street? But you put them behind Freud, who by all accounts frequently took part in cocaine.
EDIT: nvm
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On January 30 2010 23:45 Jayme wrote:
Come back to me when your country has 300 million people and happens to be the third largest country in the world.
Size makes logistics a pain in the ass and it's a problem France simply does not have. There was a big trend downward in crime around here until the economy went bad. The true vast majority of our prison population is there for bullshit drug charges.
If there wasn't such a hardcore black market for drugs we'd probably see less murders. I don't like the US justice system that much but the correlation between "repression" and "violence" really isn't there. It is actually very difficult to get sent to life in prison without parole here.
For the record...try dealing with these so called "nice" criminals on a day to day basis. It's not an accident that people in the crappier parts of town have been arrested five to ten freaking times in their lives. Some people that do real crimes just can't be reformed. They were raised a certain way and they have a certain way of thinking. Good luck changing that.
There is still a trend that there is less crime in the US, but the number of prisoners tripled since 1980 and is still on a steady rise. There are around 2.5 million people in US prisons and 1 million of them didnt even commit violent crimes. Hell, every 10 black male at 23 till 29 is in jail.
It is not only logistic problem, there are many problems with the US system (justice, social, integration, you name it). As I dont have to pay around 20 000 - 30 000 $ per year per prisoner (5 000 000 000 - 7 500 000 000 $ per year) I really dont care that much - it´s not my money...
On another note: How do you know that the guy hasnt worked 10 or 12 hours a day, like cleaning a road or sth? We know too few about the whole incident. Maybe he needed years to write the 96 pages? We simply dont know...
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On January 31 2010 00:04 TS-Rupbar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 00:01 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision. How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located. You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game? @ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught. People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general. 'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance. At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit. Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke. l o l You don't know anything about Freud, at all, so I will ignore the last part. Now answer me. Why is it that there are a massive difference between the black and the white population in jail, proportionaly, in the US? There is only two answers 1- Because black people are poorer, come from harder background, ahve more difficult lives, etc etc, and therefore come to be criminals more often than white people, who generally have much more luck about how and where the were born. 2- Black people are more often bad than white. Make your conclusions. I will never be a criminal. I was born in a nice district, had a good education, good loving parents, have been supported financially to do what I liked in my life. That's not the case of everybody. The reason why there are criminals is firstly because some people nobody give a fuck about don't have the chances I had. And please, when you really don't have any idea about a topic, rather than writing a pile of prejudices, learn a little bit about what you are talking about. Because you can criticize Freud, for many reasons, but that was really bad bad quality argumentation. You think that being born in a good part of town makes you less likely to commit crime. You know the term white collar crime? Also, murder doesn't stop once you hit a certain income level. Actually, minorities have a lot of considerations made to them in schools and the community. You also forget to take into account hispanic gangs and asian gangs (asian gangs tend to be much more brutal than black or hispanic ones and the asian population also tends to have a higher income ratio than other minorities so how does income help your argument?) When you leave out the other major groups that inhabit the prison system it makes your argument look stupid. Oh and tell me how I was wrong about Freud? Would you put weight behind the words of a coked out guy on the street? But you put them behind Freud, who by all accounts frequently took part in cocaine. I wouldn't put weight behind words of someone who honestly believes that certain groups of people are more prone to commit crimes because of genes. How does that help your argument?
Did you misquote me or something or am I missing where I said that people are genetically predisposed to crime.
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On January 31 2010 00:03 Pioneer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2010 23:58 TS-Rupbar wrote:On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision. How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located. You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game? @ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught. People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general. 'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance. At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit. Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke. l o l I am not sure at all, but I can imagine that he did all this in his "free time". I would rather have him do something creative and benefitting to both himself and his cell mates than doing something that's not. Honestly, I really don't believe that anyone "deserves" anything. What happened in the past cannot be reversed. While previous actions definitely show that one might do the same thing again (hence why putting criminals in prison is a good thing), it is useless to inflict punishment only for the reason of punishing. It doesn't help anyone. I can relate to that he should make up for his actions, but cleaning up areas and stuff seems pretty unrealistic to me. Would you want prisoners cleaning up stuff in public? It would suck both for the common man and the prisoners themselves. Prisoners are frequently taken out along highways to pick up trash and clean the general area. How is the any different from them going into a city (of course under close supervision) and scrubbing graffiti of walls.
1. People could get scared of them.
2. People could form mobs and attack the criminal.
3. It would be much easier to just hire someone else to do the work. Apart from the first two, reasons for this could be to create jobs for non-criminals. Also, I don't believe in punishing them only for the reason of punishing them.
I could go on if you like.
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On January 31 2010 00:01 Pioneer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2010 23:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision. How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located. You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game? @ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught. People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general. 'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance. At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit. Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke. l o l You don't know anything about Freud, at all, so I will ignore the last part. Now answer me. Why is it that there are a massive difference between the black and the white population in jail, proportionaly, in the US? There is only two answers 1- Because black people are poorer, come from harder background, ahve more difficult lives, etc etc, and therefore come to be criminals more often than white people, who generally have much more luck about how and where the were born. 2- Black people are more often bad than white. Make your conclusions. I will never be a criminal. I was born in a nice district, had a good education, good loving parents, have been supported financially to do what I liked in my life. That's not the case of everybody. The reason why there are criminals is firstly because some people nobody give a fuck about don't have the chances I had. And please, when you really don't have any idea about a topic, rather than writing a pile of prejudices, learn a little bit about what you are talking about. Because you can criticize Freud, for many reasons, but that was really bad bad quality argumentation. You think that being born in a good part of town makes you less likely to commit crime. You know the term white collar crime? Also, murder doesn't stop once you hit a certain income level. Actually, minorities have a lot of considerations made to them in schools and the community. You also forget to take into account hispanic gangs and asian gangs (asian gangs tend to be much more brutal than black or hispanic ones and the asian population also tends to have a higher income ratio than other minorities so how does income help your argument?) When you leave out the other major groups that inhabit the prison system it makes your argument look stupid. Oh and tell me how I was wrong about Freud? Would you put weight behind the words of a coked out guy on the street? But you put them behind Freud, who by all accounts frequently took part in cocaine.
Sigh.
Obviously you have criminals in all part of the society. And obvisouly you have different kind of criminality. Now if you don't see that you get more chances to end up in jail if you were born in Harlem than in a nice district of Boston, I am sorry for you, and I won't even try to explain you.
You clearly didn't unnderstand my argument about black people. Read again. Please.
Now about Freud, one more time, I am sorry to tell you that it's very very clear by reading what you wrote that you don't have any idea of his theory, that haven't read a line of him, and that you are just based on silly prejudice. Most of intellectuals were doing opiacées at this time, Cocain or Opium. If that's how you judge a scientist, I can't say much.
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On January 31 2010 00:06 Damian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2010 23:45 Jayme wrote:
Come back to me when your country has 300 million people and happens to be the third largest country in the world.
Size makes logistics a pain in the ass and it's a problem France simply does not have. There was a big trend downward in crime around here until the economy went bad. The true vast majority of our prison population is there for bullshit drug charges.
If there wasn't such a hardcore black market for drugs we'd probably see less murders. I don't like the US justice system that much but the correlation between "repression" and "violence" really isn't there. It is actually very difficult to get sent to life in prison without parole here.
For the record...try dealing with these so called "nice" criminals on a day to day basis. It's not an accident that people in the crappier parts of town have been arrested five to ten freaking times in their lives. Some people that do real crimes just can't be reformed. They were raised a certain way and they have a certain way of thinking. Good luck changing that. There is still a trend that there is less crime in the US, but the number of prisoners tripled since 1980 and is still on a steady rise. There are around 2.5 million people in US prisons and 1 million of them didnt even commit violent crimes. Hell, every 10 black male at 23 till 29 is in jail. It is not only logistic problem, there are many problems with the US system (justice, social, integration, you name it). As I dont have to pay around 20 000 - 30 000 $ per year per prisoner (5 000 000 000 - 7 500 000 000 $ per year) I really dont care that much - it´s not my money... On another note: How do you know that the guy hasnt worked 10 or 12 hours a day, like cleaning a road or sth? We know too few about the whole incident. Maybe he needed years to write the 96 pages? We simply dont know...
well ur chinese, ur already brainwashed by ur government i wouldn't expect you to understand why we call this unacceptable
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On January 31 2010 00:07 Pioneer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 00:04 TS-Rupbar wrote:On January 31 2010 00:01 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision. How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located. You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game? @ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught. People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general. 'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance. At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit. Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke. l o l You don't know anything about Freud, at all, so I will ignore the last part. Now answer me. Why is it that there are a massive difference between the black and the white population in jail, proportionaly, in the US? There is only two answers 1- Because black people are poorer, come from harder background, ahve more difficult lives, etc etc, and therefore come to be criminals more often than white people, who generally have much more luck about how and where the were born. 2- Black people are more often bad than white. Make your conclusions. I will never be a criminal. I was born in a nice district, had a good education, good loving parents, have been supported financially to do what I liked in my life. That's not the case of everybody. The reason why there are criminals is firstly because some people nobody give a fuck about don't have the chances I had. And please, when you really don't have any idea about a topic, rather than writing a pile of prejudices, learn a little bit about what you are talking about. Because you can criticize Freud, for many reasons, but that was really bad bad quality argumentation. You think that being born in a good part of town makes you less likely to commit crime. You know the term white collar crime? Also, murder doesn't stop once you hit a certain income level. Actually, minorities have a lot of considerations made to them in schools and the community. You also forget to take into account hispanic gangs and asian gangs (asian gangs tend to be much more brutal than black or hispanic ones and the asian population also tends to have a higher income ratio than other minorities so how does income help your argument?) When you leave out the other major groups that inhabit the prison system it makes your argument look stupid. Oh and tell me how I was wrong about Freud? Would you put weight behind the words of a coked out guy on the street? But you put them behind Freud, who by all accounts frequently took part in cocaine. I wouldn't put weight behind words of someone who honestly believes that certain groups of people are more prone to commit crimes because of genes. How does that help your argument? Did you misquote me or something or am I missing where I said that people are genetically predisposed to crime.
After re-reading your post, I now see that I misunderstood it. Sorry.
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On January 31 2010 00:09 StarsPride wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 00:06 Damian wrote:On January 30 2010 23:45 Jayme wrote:
Come back to me when your country has 300 million people and happens to be the third largest country in the world.
Size makes logistics a pain in the ass and it's a problem France simply does not have. There was a big trend downward in crime around here until the economy went bad. The true vast majority of our prison population is there for bullshit drug charges.
If there wasn't such a hardcore black market for drugs we'd probably see less murders. I don't like the US justice system that much but the correlation between "repression" and "violence" really isn't there. It is actually very difficult to get sent to life in prison without parole here.
For the record...try dealing with these so called "nice" criminals on a day to day basis. It's not an accident that people in the crappier parts of town have been arrested five to ten freaking times in their lives. Some people that do real crimes just can't be reformed. They were raised a certain way and they have a certain way of thinking. Good luck changing that. There is still a trend that there is less crime in the US, but the number of prisoners tripled since 1980 and is still on a steady rise. There are around 2.5 million people in US prisons and 1 million of them didnt even commit violent crimes. Hell, every 10 black male at 23 till 29 is in jail. It is not only logistic problem, there are many problems with the US system (justice, social, integration, you name it). As I dont have to pay around 20 000 - 30 000 $ per year per prisoner (5 000 000 000 - 7 500 000 000 $ per year) I really dont care that much - it´s not my money... On another note: How do you know that the guy hasnt worked 10 or 12 hours a day, like cleaning a road or sth? We know too few about the whole incident. Maybe he needed years to write the 96 pages? We simply dont know... well ur chinese, ur already brainwashed by ur government i wouldn't expect you to understand why we call this unacceptable
If you think he is a brainwashed zombi, why do you discuss with him? That's the worst and most insulting argument I've read here.
I could come with my prejudices and say that you are an american and brainwashed by Fox News. But then why wouuld I bother even talk to you. Pfff.
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On January 31 2010 00:08 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 00:01 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision. How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located. You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game? @ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught. People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general. 'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance. At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit. Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke. l o l You don't know anything about Freud, at all, so I will ignore the last part. Now answer me. Why is it that there are a massive difference between the black and the white population in jail, proportionaly, in the US? There is only two answers 1- Because black people are poorer, come from harder background, ahve more difficult lives, etc etc, and therefore come to be criminals more often than white people, who generally have much more luck about how and where the were born. 2- Black people are more often bad than white. Make your conclusions. I will never be a criminal. I was born in a nice district, had a good education, good loving parents, have been supported financially to do what I liked in my life. That's not the case of everybody. The reason why there are criminals is firstly because some people nobody give a fuck about don't have the chances I had. And please, when you really don't have any idea about a topic, rather than writing a pile of prejudices, learn a little bit about what you are talking about. Because you can criticize Freud, for many reasons, but that was really bad bad quality argumentation. You think that being born in a good part of town makes you less likely to commit crime. You know the term white collar crime? Also, murder doesn't stop once you hit a certain income level. Actually, minorities have a lot of considerations made to them in schools and the community. You also forget to take into account hispanic gangs and asian gangs (asian gangs tend to be much more brutal than black or hispanic ones and the asian population also tends to have a higher income ratio than other minorities so how does income help your argument?) When you leave out the other major groups that inhabit the prison system it makes your argument look stupid. Oh and tell me how I was wrong about Freud? Would you put weight behind the words of a coked out guy on the street? But you put them behind Freud, who by all accounts frequently took part in cocaine. Sigh. Obviously you have criminals in all part of the society. And obvisouly you have different kind of criminality. Now if you don't see that you get more chances to end up in jail if you were born in Harlem than in a nice district of Boston, I am sorry for you, and I won't even try to explain you. You clearly didn't unnderstand my argument about black people. Read again. Please. Now about Freud, one more time, I am sorry to tell you that it's very very clear by reading what you wrote that you don't have any idea of his theory, that haven't read a line of him, and that you are just based on silly prejudice. Most of intellectuals were doing opiacées at this time, Cocain or Opium. If that's how you judge a scientist, I can't say much.
Of course you're going to have more theft (and with theft comes murder) in a lower income area than a higher income area but just because the nature of the crimes are changed doesn't mean the amount or severity of them are different.
Also, it does detract from my opinion of intellectuals, especially of psychoanalysts who work in an already murky study, when they are strung out on opiates or hyped up because of cocaine.
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On January 31 2010 00:15 Pioneer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 00:08 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 31 2010 00:01 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 30 2010 23:43 Pioneer wrote:On January 30 2010 23:23 TS-Rupbar wrote:
I don't think one of a prison's primary goals should be punishment. Instead, they should work to keep society safe from the prisoners and make the prisoners better members of society. Banning something that encouraged a prisoner to write 96 page creative work is not a good decision. How about the time devoted to writing a relatively useless manuscript could be devoted to charity work or cleaning up bad areas of the city where the prison is located. You applaud him for being creative. He killed someone. How is he in any way making up his debt to society by writing a book about a card game? @ Biff The Understudy: This is this shit that annoys me. I am not a hard conservative and I'm against the death penalty but I do not agree with the feel good approach of the left wing. Criminals are not (for the most part) good people that made a mistake. These are people that in many cases have committed atrocious acts against society and only feel remorse because they got caught. People like this do not deserve sympathy, nor leniency. They deserve to spend years in prison and working their asses off to make up for the damage they did to their family, the families that they affected and society in general. 'If we work really hard and talk about and hug it out he'll turn into a good person.' Fuck that. When the person has made up for the actions he's done 10 fold then he deserves a second chance. At least have the balls to admit you use the pussy approach. I don't care that you give criminals a slap on the wrist, to be honest. But the fact that you try to delude yourself and others with your psychiatrist bullshit about Freud makes me want to vomit. Freud believed that males had an innate sexual attraction to their mothers. Freud was also a coke head. Don't know about you but that makes me a little less ready to take his words seriously, and the fact that you put weight behind them makes me think your argument is a huge joke. l o l You don't know anything about Freud, at all, so I will ignore the last part. Now answer me. Why is it that there are a massive difference between the black and the white population in jail, proportionaly, in the US? There is only two answers 1- Because black people are poorer, come from harder background, ahve more difficult lives, etc etc, and therefore come to be criminals more often than white people, who generally have much more luck about how and where the were born. 2- Black people are more often bad than white. Make your conclusions. I will never be a criminal. I was born in a nice district, had a good education, good loving parents, have been supported financially to do what I liked in my life. That's not the case of everybody. The reason why there are criminals is firstly because some people nobody give a fuck about don't have the chances I had. And please, when you really don't have any idea about a topic, rather than writing a pile of prejudices, learn a little bit about what you are talking about. Because you can criticize Freud, for many reasons, but that was really bad bad quality argumentation. You think that being born in a good part of town makes you less likely to commit crime. You know the term white collar crime? Also, murder doesn't stop once you hit a certain income level. Actually, minorities have a lot of considerations made to them in schools and the community. You also forget to take into account hispanic gangs and asian gangs (asian gangs tend to be much more brutal than black or hispanic ones and the asian population also tends to have a higher income ratio than other minorities so how does income help your argument?) When you leave out the other major groups that inhabit the prison system it makes your argument look stupid. Oh and tell me how I was wrong about Freud? Would you put weight behind the words of a coked out guy on the street? But you put them behind Freud, who by all accounts frequently took part in cocaine. Sigh. Obviously you have criminals in all part of the society. And obvisouly you have different kind of criminality. Now if you don't see that you get more chances to end up in jail if you were born in Harlem than in a nice district of Boston, I am sorry for you, and I won't even try to explain you. You clearly didn't unnderstand my argument about black people. Read again. Please. Now about Freud, one more time, I am sorry to tell you that it's very very clear by reading what you wrote that you don't have any idea of his theory, that haven't read a line of him, and that you are just based on silly prejudice. Most of intellectuals were doing opiacées at this time, Cocain or Opium. If that's how you judge a scientist, I can't say much. Of course you're going to have more theft (and with theft comes murder) in a lower income area than a higher income area but just because the nature of the crimes are changed doesn't mean the amount or severity of them are different. Also, it does detract from my opinion of intellectuals, especially of psychoanalysts who work in an already murky study, when they are strung out on opiates or hyped up because of cocaine.
You don't judge a theory because you heard that his inventor has been doing Cocain. That just doesn't make any sense.
Now it's not question of income. It's question of whole background. You live in a violent background, and have a hopeless shitty life expecting you, a poor eductaion and hard etc etc, you will end up being what you would call a "bad person" and therefore to findd yourself in jail much more easily than someone who had luck where and how he lived. That's basic.
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On January 31 2010 00:09 StarsPride wrote:
well ur chinese, ur already brainwashed by ur government i wouldn't expect you to understand why we call this unacceptable
I am a German living in Beijing - 100 meters away from the US embassy that is...
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StarsPride YOU are the brainwashed one.
Seriously, you have no fucking clue about any subject at all and should stop puking that shit you call post.
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prisonrs should play d&d but they should only play paladins so they will learn to follow the law and be good!
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On January 31 2010 00:15 Pioneer wrote:Of course you're going to have more theft (and with theft comes murder) in a lower income area than a higher income area but just because the nature of the crimes are changed doesn't mean the amount or severity of them are different.
Also, it does detract from my opinion of intellectuals, especially of psychoanalysts who work in an already murky study, when they are strung out on opiates or hyped up because of cocaine.
I'm curious what your educational background is!
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This is a silly thread trying to justify that cold-blooded murderers should be allowed to play fucking games in prison, are you serious? We don't really know the circumstances of the murder, but if your girlfriends crazy brother fucking killed you, would you think it's fair get he gets to play D&D?
Not to mention the fact that the judges decision is basically right regardless of the obvious fact mentioned above.
Edit: All of these people claiming that prisoners should be being prepared for reintegration into society.. that doesn't happen if you have a life sentence.
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On January 31 2010 00:09 StarsPride wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 00:06 Damian wrote:On January 30 2010 23:45 Jayme wrote:
Come back to me when your country has 300 million people and happens to be the third largest country in the world.
Size makes logistics a pain in the ass and it's a problem France simply does not have. There was a big trend downward in crime around here until the economy went bad. The true vast majority of our prison population is there for bullshit drug charges.
If there wasn't such a hardcore black market for drugs we'd probably see less murders. I don't like the US justice system that much but the correlation between "repression" and "violence" really isn't there. It is actually very difficult to get sent to life in prison without parole here.
For the record...try dealing with these so called "nice" criminals on a day to day basis. It's not an accident that people in the crappier parts of town have been arrested five to ten freaking times in their lives. Some people that do real crimes just can't be reformed. They were raised a certain way and they have a certain way of thinking. Good luck changing that. There is still a trend that there is less crime in the US, but the number of prisoners tripled since 1980 and is still on a steady rise. There are around 2.5 million people in US prisons and 1 million of them didnt even commit violent crimes. Hell, every 10 black male at 23 till 29 is in jail. It is not only logistic problem, there are many problems with the US system (justice, social, integration, you name it). As I dont have to pay around 20 000 - 30 000 $ per year per prisoner (5 000 000 000 - 7 500 000 000 $ per year) I really dont care that much - it´s not my money... On another note: How do you know that the guy hasnt worked 10 or 12 hours a day, like cleaning a road or sth? We know too few about the whole incident. Maybe he needed years to write the 96 pages? We simply dont know... well ur chinese, ur already brainwashed by ur government i wouldn't expect you to understand why we call this unacceptable
I really really would like to see you get banned for this post.
This is the most condescending bullshit post I've ever read.
Why do so many people feel like talking about something (or someone) they don't even know shit about.
And pioneer, please, if you haven't even read anything of Freud yourself you're obviously being ridiculously far from being objective so better dont mention him at all.
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EPT
