EPTPrison Bans D&D - Page 2
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
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Kwidowmaker
Canada978 Posts
On January 30 2010 17:47 So no fek wrote: I'm not exactly sober right now, so I can't really give much of an opinion on this. While I agree that prison is essentially about punishment, and the judge's statement as such isn't exactly wrong, what are these prisoner going to do now? What they were doing wasn't exactly productive, but it was done in their own "free" time. If they now spend that free time engaging in other, more "prison like" activities, is it really their fault? They found a healthy-ish release, and the state is taking that away from them. prison is essentially about punishment, yes, and I suspect that is what most people think it is about. does punishment help? The goal of punishment is to deter crime, but that is not the only goal you seek to accomplish, you also want to turn criminals into citizens. if the goal is punishment as it seems to be perceived as, you fail to reintegrate inmates. A system without enough punishment as disincentive doesn't work, but then there must also be incentive and human encouragement to become an acceptable part of society again. I'm not exactly sober as well | ||
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Keiga
United States2 Posts
On January 30 2010 16:28 illu wrote: Exactly. Prison is supposed to be a punishment; to allow prisoners to play D&D is not a punishment. Also, as far as I know, a prisoner does not enjoy the same Constitutional Rights. so you'd rather have them kill each other instead? | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
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Falling
Canada11367 Posts
Prison officials said they had banned the game at the recommendation of the prison’s specialist on gangs, who said it could lead to gang behavior and fantasies about escape. Dungeons & Dragons could “foster an inmate’s obsession with escaping from the real-life correctional environment, fostering hostility, violence and escape behavior,” prison officials said in court. That could make it more difficult to rehabilitate prisoners and could endanger public safety, they said. Given that the reason for denying DnD had nothing to do whether prisoners had entertainment time or not, I think we can safely leave that question alone. It's ridiculous that two decades after the Pulling Report etc has shown that the negative influences of DnD are non-existent, this irrational fear still influences authorities. | ||
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Damian
Germany335 Posts
I find it interesting that most posters from the US think that prison is all about punishment... Side fact: The EU wide average is 123 prisoners per 100 000 of population. In comparison, in the USA there are 758 prisoners per 100 000 of population. The very highest in Estonia (302 prisoners per 100 000 inhabitants ), Latvia (293), Lithuania (232), Poland (228) and the Czech Republic (185). The lowest rates were registered in Slovenia (60), Finland (68), Denmark (71), Ireland (75 in 2004-2006) and Sweden (77). Interestingly, a high crime rate country such as Belgium has a below average rate for prisoners (91). data from 2005-2007 http://eulaw.typepad.com/eulawblog/2009/07/number-of-prisoners-statistics-for-2005-2007.html | ||
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
On January 30 2010 19:31 EchOne wrote: + Show Spoiler + To those arguing against the soul-crushing hard labor that Draconizard advocates with the argument that it goes against rehabilitation, I'd like to guess that his point was that in cases of life sentences, rehabilitation is not an issue. People spending their lives in prison will never again return to society, so they will never return any value to society other than via slave labor. Yeah except they are part of the prison 'society' and it wouldn't be a bad idea to have activities that allow some relaxation and strategies to reduce further crime in prison. Prison officials are just making it more of a hell for them to be in and for prison workers to work in. On January 30 2010 17:11 danl9rm wrote: + Show Spoiler + sounds legit to me. he bludgeons and stabs his sister's boyfriend to death and then writes a 96-page manuscript about the stuff. is that not enough to make u guys think he was absolutely obsessed with it? rehab is about change. letting him continue his obsession isn't going to help. Yeah because everyone knows that violent crime is created by role-playing games, video games and violent movies. Just wth dude. THINK EDIT: Oh, and prison is actually meant to be about rehabilitation. Seems the Enlightenment passed a few of us by... | ||
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
They are real human beings, with feelings and psychology. It is proven that having hobbies in prison drastically reduces violence and suicide rates Just because they did something wrong, doesn't mean we should be stooping to their level and doing something wrong to them in return. It is our job as a society to show compassion for other humans regardless of who they are. Its called being a philanthropist and having love for human life. The point of prison is about rehabilitation and prevention - otherwise you might aswell just put everyone to death and call it the cure. Honestly it is such a stereotypical american, sadistic view that prison should be there to deprive their lives and make it as miserable and horrible as possible. | ||
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Pioneer
994 Posts
On January 30 2010 20:29 BrTarolg wrote: I hate people who think prison should be about punishing and incarcerating people and torturing them for the rest of their lives They are real human beings, with feelings and psychology. It is proven that having hobbies in prison drastically reduces violence and suicide rates Just because they did something wrong, doesn't mean we should be stooping to their level and doing something wrong to them in return. It is our job as a society to show compassion for other humans regardless of who they are. Its called being a philanthropist and having love for human life. The point of prison is about rehabilitation and prevention - otherwise you might aswell just put everyone to death and call it the cure. Honestly it is such a stereotypical american, sadistic view that prison should be there to deprive their lives and make it as miserable and horrible as possible. Why should we show compassion for rapists, murders, pedophiles, thieves, etc. etc.? All they did was hurt society. Why should society try to help a negative and destructive influence to itself? and people talking about rehabilitation are forgetting that many offenders become repeat offenders. Drug addicts tend to return to drugs when they are back outside, drug dealers tend to return to dealing, thieves tend to steal again. Prison life should be a grind, forcing these parasites to not even want to live anymore. Honestly it is such a stereotypical american, sadistic view that prison should be there to deprive their lives and make it as miserable and horrible as possible. Honestly, it's such a stereotypical European view that everyone should be best friends and pick daisies in the field together and live happily ever after. News flash, the real world doesn't work like that. You have people that get pleasure in abusing children, you have people that get pleasure in forcing themselves upon women. You have people that get pleasure in torturing then killing their fellow man. Prison isn't a reward. They already get room and board from tax payers why should they be allowed to have fun? Whenever you take away the rights of another person forcibly you should lose your rights. | ||
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shimmy
Poland997 Posts
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stenole
Norway868 Posts
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Wohmfg
United Kingdom1292 Posts
On January 30 2010 20:38 Pioneer wrote: Why should we show compassion for rapists, murders, pedophiles, thieves, etc. etc.? All they did was hurt society. Why should society try to help a negative and destructive influence to itself? and people talking about rehabilitation are forgetting that many offenders become repeat offenders. Drug addicts tend to return to drugs when they are back outside, drug dealers tend to return to dealing, thieves tend to steal again. Prison life should be a grind, forcing these parasites to not even want to live anymore. Honestly, it's such a stereotypical European view that everyone should be best friends and pick daisies in the field together and live happily ever after. News flash, the real world doesn't work like that. You have people that get pleasure in abusing children, you have people that get pleasure in forcing themselves upon women. You have people that get pleasure in torturing then killing their fellow man. Prison isn't a reward. They already get room and board from tax payers why should they be allowed to have fun? Whenever you take away the rights of another person forcibly you should lose your rights. Don't you think that rehabilitation into society is better than punishment for these prisoners? And if it is then we should work towards that? | ||
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Damian
Germany335 Posts
On January 30 2010 20:38 Pioneer wrote: Honestly, it's such a stereotypical European view that everyone should be best friends and pick daisies in the field together and live happily ever after. News flash, the real world doesn't work like that. You have people that get pleasure in abusing children, you have people that get pleasure in forcing themselves upon women. You have people that get pleasure in torturing then killing their fellow man. Prison isn't a reward. They already get room and board from tax payers why should they be allowed to have fun? Whenever you take away the rights of another person forcibly you should lose your rights. So kill them all? It´s cheaper and faster... http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/04/usa--prison-nat.html | ||
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des
United States507 Posts
On January 30 2010 20:38 Pioneer wrote: Why should we show compassion for rapists, murders, pedophiles, thieves, etc. etc.? All they did was hurt society. Why should society try to help a negative and destructive influence to itself? and people talking about rehabilitation are forgetting that many offenders become repeat offenders. Drug addicts tend to return to drugs when they are back outside, drug dealers tend to return to dealing, thieves tend to steal again. Prison life should be a grind, forcing these parasites to not even want to live anymore. Honestly, it's such a stereotypical European view that everyone should be best friends and pick daisies in the field together and live happily ever after. News flash, the real world doesn't work like that. You have people that get pleasure in abusing children, you have people that get pleasure in forcing themselves upon women. You have people that get pleasure in torturing then killing their fellow man. Prison isn't a reward. They already get room and board from tax payers why should they be allowed to have fun? Whenever you take away the rights of another person forcibly you should lose your rights. damn did someone kill your dad or somethin this is vitriolic | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On January 30 2010 20:29 BrTarolg wrote: I hate people who think prison should be about punishing and incarcerating people and torturing them for the rest of their lives They are real human beings, with feelings and psychology. It is proven that having hobbies in prison drastically reduces violence and suicide rates Just because they did something wrong, doesn't mean we should be stooping to their level and doing something wrong to them in return. It is our job as a society to show compassion for other humans regardless of who they are. Its called being a philanthropist and having love for human life. The point of prison is about rehabilitation and prevention - otherwise you might aswell just put everyone to death and call it the cure. Honestly it is such a stereotypical american, sadistic view that prison should be there to deprive their lives and make it as miserable and horrible as possible. Yeah this is a very good post, although I disagree about that being american, you'll find enough people who think that way in europe. (probably not as many in relative terms but still) On January 30 2010 21:20 Damian wrote: So kill them all? It´s cheaper and faster... http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/04/usa--prison-nat.html exactly.. If they really shouldnt have a life as soon as theyve commited a crime you might as well kill those fuckers. Much easier for everyone. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7916 Posts
On January 30 2010 20:38 Pioneer wrote: Honestly, it's such a stereotypical European view that everyone should be best friends and pick daisies in the field together and live happily ever after. News flash, the real world doesn't work like that. You have people that get pleasure in abusing children, you have people that get pleasure in forcing themselves upon women. You have people that get pleasure in torturing then killing their fellow man. Prison isn't a reward. They already get room and board from tax payers why should they be allowed to have fun? Whenever you take away the rights of another person forcibly you should lose your rights. That's the great difference between Europe and US councerning Justice: for Europeans, prison should punish and correct the criminal. Prison is a punishment. For Americans, justice is a revenge. You did something wrong? We do something wrong to you. Putting someone for the rest of his life in jail or even killing him is not a punishment. It's not hopping that he will understand, that he will pay his debt to seciety. It's a vengeance. Now, your argument is wrong. And I see two reasons for this wrongness: 1- It's an inefficient approach. More repressive a state is, more violent are its citizen. There must be a reason why US is the thousand time more repressive than any European country (iirc, ten times more prisonners than in France proportionaly -that's fucking huuuuuuge), AND also has a higher criminality, murder rate than any European country. 2- Criminals are not just "bad". This right wing approach is silly. That's wrong for two reasons: 1- because people are not "free": that, we know since Freud. People are not equal. Some of us will never be criminals, and some will certainly be because of the past they had. And secondly because it's the society which creates criminals. And obviously, in such a nihilistic, individualistic, unfair society like the American one, you have a lot of criminals amongst people nobody give a fuck about. People are not good or bad. They have different histories, and different context. When you get a society full of crimes, violences, and murders, it's aa bit too easy to say that some people are just bad and you should get rid of them. Question your society, and its obscenity. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
That said, the reasons given are absolutely nothing short of HILARIOUS. I mean, because it promote gang and escape fantasies? Is this a joke? I mean, do they think prisoners would just read quietly like good little boys if they're not spending time playing D&D? Plus a Dungeon Master is NOTHING like a gang leader. If you want to take away rights, at least give some good reasons. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7916 Posts
On January 30 2010 22:26 baubo wrote: Don't have a problem with preventing prisoners from playing D&D. I mean, it's a prison. They should be able to limit freedom if they want. That said, the reasons given are absolutely nothing short of HILARIOUS. I mean, because it promote gang and escape fantasies? Is this a joke? I mean, do they think prisoners would just read quietly like good little boys if they're not spending time playing D&D? Plus a Dungeon Master is NOTHING like a gang leader. If you want to take away rights, at least give some good reasons. Plus playing DD seems a reasonably sane occupation for a prisonner. Better than getting involved in all the violence and gang shit which happens in prisons. No, the reason they ban DD is just that it makes their life a little bit better. | ||
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