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On June 03 2009 11:22 inReacH wrote:
A quick note about this guide vs the poker guide..
The value of a guide like this is exactly the same as it was 6 years ago...
The value of the poker guide compared to the same guide 6 years ago has plummeted so drastically.. poker is such a fucking dead end right now.
Really enjoyed this and may start learning with a friend of mine when we have drinks at my place.
Thank you!
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On June 03 2009 12:35 thunk wrote:
It was an enjoyable write up to read.
Do you know what the counting rules in Vegas are? Probably a lot stricter, yeah?
Being an east coast guy, I have never been to Vegas, but I believe they are allowed to kick people out for "trespassing" as they wish.
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On June 03 2009 13:33 pangshai wrote:
Great guide. Some things I didn't get though, you said "If the dealer deals 2, A, 4, 3, 3, 7, K, Q, 2 the count is +4." Isn't it +1 -1 +1 +1 +1 0 -1 -1 +1, with the overall count being +2. Also, how do you know how many decks there are in the discard pile? Is it just estimation by the thickness of the cards? and can you also elaborate a bit on the illustrious 18. Thanks!
Fixed the error in the example. Sorry about that.
I know how many decks are in the discard rack by the height of the pile. It takes time to get the hang of it, but it comes easy with time.
What exactly do you want to know about the Illustrious 18?
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great read. gonna try to get the basic chart down on my ride to cali (6 hours) and the whole running count thing during flight to chian (16 hours) x_x
but its gonna be fun :D
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On June 03 2009 15:10 xJacky wrote:
great read. gonna try to get the basic chart down on my ride to cali (6 hours) and the whole running count thing during flight to chian (16 hours) x_x
but its gonna be fun :D
u mean china. unless chian exists, i don't know.
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as a high level poker player, i must grudgingly admit that the previous posts are true about the average player becoming increasingly tough
in other words, if you haven't picked up poker yet and are looking to, it's probably not a good idea due to the current high skill level
that said, if you really want to be good, you will probably end up ignoring my advice and then proving me wrong, DUCY?
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O gosh, this requires a ridiculous amount of brain power! Too many decks make it too hard...T_T
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On June 03 2009 15:01 Kishime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2009 13:33 pangshai wrote:
Great guide. Some things I didn't get though, you said "If the dealer deals 2, A, 4, 3, 3, 7, K, Q, 2 the count is +4." Isn't it +1 -1 +1 +1 +1 0 -1 -1 +1, with the overall count being +2. Also, how do you know how many decks there are in the discard pile? Is it just estimation by the thickness of the cards? and can you also elaborate a bit on the illustrious 18. Thanks! What exactly do you want to know about the Illustrious 18?
say its a 10,10 vs 5. according to the rules i'm supposed to stand, but if the true count is +5, i instead split? also some of the illutrious 18 come into effect when the count is 0, wouldn't that be similar to just disagreeing with the general rule? and what is insurance?
another couple of questions, when it says DS and D (stand/hit when not allowed). why would you not be allowed to double? is it cause you already hit to reach that amount? also, do most casinos use a 6 deck shoe?
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On June 03 2009 16:04 exalted wrote:
as a high level poker player, i must grudgingly admit that the previous posts are true about the average player becoming increasingly tough
in other words, if you haven't picked up poker yet and are looking to, it's probably not a good idea due to the current high skill level
that said, if you really want to be good, you will probably end up ignoring my advice and then proving me wrong, DUCY?
as a low level poker player, I can say that if you want to, its a great hobby to pick up, just don't expect to make any real money from it
do you have any idea what the card counting rules in cali are? I doubt I'll ever get my roll to 10k, but if I do, I might consider this (although with a 4k roll, you can play live 1/2 and you'd only need a 5 ptbb/hr winrate to match your $20/hr)
is your $20/hr, are you running above or below expectation?
EDIT: do you know where the proofs for your chart are?
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Kishime I'm wondering, what is the expected edge over the house assuming perfect play/count?
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On June 03 2009 13:33 pangshai wrote:
say its a 10,10 vs 5. according to the rules i'm supposed to stand, but if the true count is +5, i instead split? also some of the illutrious 18 come into effect when the count is 0, wouldn't that be similar to just disagreeing with the general rule? and what is insurance?
another couple of questions, when it says DS and D (stand/hit when not allowed). why would you not be allowed to double? is it cause you already hit to reach that amount? also, do most casinos use a 6 deck shoe?
If the count exceeds 5 and you have a 10, 10 v a 5 you would then split. If the count is higher than 0 and you have a 10 v 6 you are supposed to stand. If the count is lower than 0 and you have a 12 v a 4 you are supposed to hit. If the count is higher than 3, take insurance. 10 v 10, 11 v A, 9 v 2, 10 v A, 9 v 7, double down when it exceeds the respective count.
Insurance is a prop bet that the casino lets you do when the dealer has an Ace showing. Before the dealer checks the face-down card to see if they have blackjack, they will allow you to place a side bet of up to half of your original bet. If the dealer does have blackjack, your side bet will pay out 2-1, you will lose your original bet, and will break even in the end. If the dealer doesn't have blackjack, you lose the insurance bet and then play the hand as normal. If you are not counting, you should NEVER take insurance.
Yes, suppose you had A 2 5 v a dealer 4, you would want to double if it was your initial two cards, but since you cannot, you should stand.
I would say the vast majority use a 6 deck shoe, with a few 8 decks sprinkled around. A 6 deck shoe is very slightly better than an 8 deck shoe.
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On June 03 2009 18:30 Vivi57 wrote:
do you have any idea what the card counting rules in cali are? I doubt I'll ever get my roll to 10k, but if I do, I might consider this (although with a 4k roll, you can play live 1/2 and you'd only need a 5 ptbb/hr winrate to match your $20/hr)
is your $20/hr, are you running above or below expectation?
EDIT: do you know where the proofs for your chart are?
By card counting rules do you mean measures a casino can take you stop you, or blackjack rules there in general? Either way, I would guess they would be similar to Vegas.
Again, you do not NEED a $10k bankroll if you want to do a spread similar to mine, but just be aware that you are taking a risk and may have to deal with some nasty variance. It will certainly gives you some thrills though.
Honestly, I'm not really sure what my expected win is. It really depends on your betting spread, what rules you're playing against, the depth of the cut card, etc. I would imagine it would be anywhere between $10-$30. The only thing I really care about at this point is that I am expected to win.
I didn't include the proofs for my charts because although interesting to some, it just confuses the hell out of most people and is not something you need to know to be successful. Stanford Wong publishes a book called "Professional Blackjack" which is a tome of that kind of information. I'm sure you could also find the information online somewhere.
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On June 03 2009 19:44 ShaperofDreams wrote:
Kishime I'm wondering, what is the expected edge over the house assuming perfect play/count?
It depends on the system you're using, the rules the casino employs, how deep the dealer places the cut card, how big your bet spread is, etc. For Hi-Lo, I think it's around a 1-3% edge.
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On June 03 2009 09:48 Superiorwolf wrote:Cool guide. I've been really into learning how to play casino/gambling games recently, obviously mostly no limit Texas Hold'em  Watched some videos before on card counting in Blackjack and this guide is really cool and interesting. Once I'm 18 I think I can start going to casinos here in California and Las Vegas when I'm 21 :DDD And at Misrah, maybe he is but if he was much more into it he could probably be making much more with bigger bets :O
wtf I was joking but you really are under 18?!!!??!??
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When you are counting, is it considered suspicious if you are watching all the cards dealt to the other players? Or is that just something that most people will do anyway.
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Korea (South)922 Posts
you'll get kicked out in reno for counting...or at least harrahs in reno
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can you sit down at any table and start counting or should you wait for new decks to start the count
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On June 03 2009 14:57 Kishime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2009 12:35 thunk wrote:
It was an enjoyable write up to read.
Do you know what the counting rules in Vegas are? Probably a lot stricter, yeah?
Being an east coast guy, I have never been to Vegas, but I believe they are allowed to kick people out for "trespassing" as they wish.
I believe in Vegas they have card counting programs in the back that do perfect card counting for all tables, so by knowing what a perfect card counter would do in every situation vs. what you do, they can reasonably determine if you're counting or not over a period of time. And if they think you are, you will get the boot! The MIT blackjack team is blacklisted from Vegas casinos, haha
Very nice guide, thanks for the writeup!
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On June 04 2009 01:16 sixghost wrote:
When you are counting, is it considered suspicious if you are watching all the cards dealt to the other players? Or is that just something that most people will do anyway.
Most players eye the cards as they come out so it is not something to worry about.
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On June 04 2009 04:18 Saracen wrote:
can you sit down at any table and start counting or should you wait for new decks to start the count
You can start counting whenever, but I usually wait for a new shoe to start. If you start counting at a shoe thats partially dealt, remember to factor in how many decks are discarded before you started playing. For example, if you believe there is about 1 deck that was played before you sat down, you have to add that deck for purposes of the true count because you did not see which cards were dealt. So if you entered the game after 1 deck was dealt, and then played until there were a total of 3 decks remaining in the shoe with a running count of +8, the true count would be +2, not +8/3 because of that original deck that you did not see.
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EPT
