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[Guide] Kishime's guide to Card Counting in BJ - Page 5

Forum Index > General Games
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imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
April 09 2010 01:03 GMT
#81
great guide! idk how i missed this before
im deaf
Deadlift
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States358 Posts
April 09 2010 12:38 GMT
#82
On April 09 2010 08:39 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
ok so the casino i go to has this machine which shuffles the cards. basically how i think it is is this: they have a shoe of about 6 decks in there( i will assume) and then when a certain amount of cards have been dealt they take that and put it back in the machine which makes a small noise(most likely shuffling the cards). so my question is: does this affect the count in any way? it doesnt seem possible to know how deep the cut is and to know when they will changed the next shoe


There isn't a cut card that indicates when they will shuffle the deck?
Deadlift
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States358 Posts
April 09 2010 12:43 GMT
#83
On April 09 2010 09:08 nosliw wrote:
I have trouble understanding the Illusion 18 chart. It doesn't give any actions (stay, hit, double, split etc), so what exactly is the opposite of normal? Also, will it be more accurate if the counting is more discrete? Instead of having -1, 0, +1, what if we extend it into -1, -0.5, 0, +0.5, +1? Would it be better?


Kind of have to use common sense for the Illustrious 18 chart. I don't feel like addressing every one but if you have a question on a specific on I'll answer it.

Keeping track of count to the nearest half instead of one is more accurate, but might not be worth the extra brainpower if it causes you to mess up other aspects of counting. The return you'd get from it is very very small.
Deadlift
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States358 Posts
April 09 2010 12:49 GMT
#84
On April 09 2010 06:57 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2010 05:52 number1gog wrote:
On April 08 2010 21:50 Kishime wrote:
Just got a key through opt in! Not letting this guide go to waste though!

I'm glad you bumped. It's a good read.


Dude, awesome bump, and awesome that you got a key. Nice guide! enjoyed reading a lot


Yeah I'm making great use of it with my 3-3 record in the bronze league.

Once I actually figure out what the hell is going on in this game I'll hopefully be in gold/plat.
Nal_rAwr
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2611 Posts
April 09 2010 12:50 GMT
#85
cool you should put this in liquidpoker
Nony is Bonjwa
Stratos.FEAR
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada706 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-10 00:15:42
April 10 2010 00:06 GMT
#86
On April 09 2010 21:38 Kishime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2010 08:39 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
ok so the casino i go to has this machine which shuffles the cards. basically how i think it is is this: they have a shoe of about 6 decks in there( i will assume) and then when a certain amount of cards have been dealt they take that and put it back in the machine which makes a small noise(most likely shuffling the cards). so my question is: does this affect the count in any way? it doesnt seem possible to know how deep the cut is and to know when they will changed the next shoe


There isn't a cut card that indicates when they will shuffle the deck?


they take the cards out of the machine to deal so no one ever sees the cards. there is an open slot inside it and they take the card out right before it is dealt. and there is a slot in the top where the discarded cards are put back in

EDIT: heres a pic of what it sort of looks like http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VtBqfaAxfGA/R6jVLUPxCRI/AAAAAAAAADg/sdPo5-na4Ac/s400/shuffle.jpg
Deadlift
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States358 Posts
April 10 2010 21:24 GMT
#87
On April 10 2010 09:06 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2010 21:38 Kishime wrote:
On April 09 2010 08:39 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
ok so the casino i go to has this machine which shuffles the cards. basically how i think it is is this: they have a shoe of about 6 decks in there( i will assume) and then when a certain amount of cards have been dealt they take that and put it back in the machine which makes a small noise(most likely shuffling the cards). so my question is: does this affect the count in any way? it doesnt seem possible to know how deep the cut is and to know when they will changed the next shoe


There isn't a cut card that indicates when they will shuffle the deck?


they take the cards out of the machine to deal so no one ever sees the cards. there is an open slot inside it and they take the card out right before it is dealt. and there is a slot in the top where the discarded cards are put back in

EDIT: heres a pic of what it sort of looks like http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VtBqfaAxfGA/R6jVLUPxCRI/AAAAAAAAADg/sdPo5-na4Ac/s400/shuffle.jpg


Yeah that would make it a lot harder to count if you can't tell how many decks are left.
Stratos.FEAR
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada706 Posts
April 11 2010 06:29 GMT
#88
On April 11 2010 06:24 Kishime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2010 09:06 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
On April 09 2010 21:38 Kishime wrote:
On April 09 2010 08:39 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
ok so the casino i go to has this machine which shuffles the cards. basically how i think it is is this: they have a shoe of about 6 decks in there( i will assume) and then when a certain amount of cards have been dealt they take that and put it back in the machine which makes a small noise(most likely shuffling the cards). so my question is: does this affect the count in any way? it doesnt seem possible to know how deep the cut is and to know when they will changed the next shoe


There isn't a cut card that indicates when they will shuffle the deck?


they take the cards out of the machine to deal so no one ever sees the cards. there is an open slot inside it and they take the card out right before it is dealt. and there is a slot in the top where the discarded cards are put back in

EDIT: heres a pic of what it sort of looks like http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VtBqfaAxfGA/R6jVLUPxCRI/AAAAAAAAADg/sdPo5-na4Ac/s400/shuffle.jpg


Yeah that would make it a lot harder to count if you can't tell how many decks are left.


is there any way to keep a count with something like this?
Deadlift
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States358 Posts
April 13 2010 15:27 GMT
#89
On April 11 2010 15:29 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2010 06:24 Kishime wrote:
On April 10 2010 09:06 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
On April 09 2010 21:38 Kishime wrote:
On April 09 2010 08:39 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
ok so the casino i go to has this machine which shuffles the cards. basically how i think it is is this: they have a shoe of about 6 decks in there( i will assume) and then when a certain amount of cards have been dealt they take that and put it back in the machine which makes a small noise(most likely shuffling the cards). so my question is: does this affect the count in any way? it doesnt seem possible to know how deep the cut is and to know when they will changed the next shoe


There isn't a cut card that indicates when they will shuffle the deck?


they take the cards out of the machine to deal so no one ever sees the cards. there is an open slot inside it and they take the card out right before it is dealt. and there is a slot in the top where the discarded cards are put back in

EDIT: heres a pic of what it sort of looks like http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VtBqfaAxfGA/R6jVLUPxCRI/AAAAAAAAADg/sdPo5-na4Ac/s400/shuffle.jpg


Yeah that would make it a lot harder to count if you can't tell how many decks are left.


is there any way to keep a count with something like this?


If you don't know how many decks are remaining it is impossible to count.
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
April 13 2010 18:40 GMT
#90
Which casinos have you played blackjack at besides AC?
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
April 13 2010 19:08 GMT
#91
On April 14 2010 00:27 Kishime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2010 15:29 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
On April 11 2010 06:24 Kishime wrote:
On April 10 2010 09:06 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
On April 09 2010 21:38 Kishime wrote:
On April 09 2010 08:39 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
ok so the casino i go to has this machine which shuffles the cards. basically how i think it is is this: they have a shoe of about 6 decks in there( i will assume) and then when a certain amount of cards have been dealt they take that and put it back in the machine which makes a small noise(most likely shuffling the cards). so my question is: does this affect the count in any way? it doesnt seem possible to know how deep the cut is and to know when they will changed the next shoe


There isn't a cut card that indicates when they will shuffle the deck?


they take the cards out of the machine to deal so no one ever sees the cards. there is an open slot inside it and they take the card out right before it is dealt. and there is a slot in the top where the discarded cards are put back in

EDIT: heres a pic of what it sort of looks like http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VtBqfaAxfGA/R6jVLUPxCRI/AAAAAAAAADg/sdPo5-na4Ac/s400/shuffle.jpg


Yeah that would make it a lot harder to count if you can't tell how many decks are left.


is there any way to keep a count with something like this?


If you don't know how many decks are remaining it is impossible to count.


I played with some of those machines in Las Vegas, and I'm moderately certain that counting is pretty much impossible on those machines. Besides the fact that you don't know how many decks are in there, they refill it with the used cards often enough that you have very little info to work with. Essentially, they're re-shuffling after only a couple decks worth of cards have been dealt.

After reading this guide, I tried to do a little bit of card counting when I was up in Reno. It's pretty fun to do, since it requires a little more effort than regular blackjack. However, they only had single deck, so the strategy that I memorized was not quite optimal, and they only have 6:5 blackjack payout, so the house probably still had an edge on me.
Deadlift
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States358 Posts
April 14 2010 13:09 GMT
#92
On April 14 2010 03:40 lac29 wrote:
Which casinos have you played blackjack at besides AC?


I've only been to AC.
Deadlift
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States358 Posts
April 14 2010 13:09 GMT
#93
On April 14 2010 04:08 Slithe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2010 00:27 Kishime wrote:
On April 11 2010 15:29 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
On April 11 2010 06:24 Kishime wrote:
On April 10 2010 09:06 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
On April 09 2010 21:38 Kishime wrote:
On April 09 2010 08:39 Stratos.FEAR wrote:
ok so the casino i go to has this machine which shuffles the cards. basically how i think it is is this: they have a shoe of about 6 decks in there( i will assume) and then when a certain amount of cards have been dealt they take that and put it back in the machine which makes a small noise(most likely shuffling the cards). so my question is: does this affect the count in any way? it doesnt seem possible to know how deep the cut is and to know when they will changed the next shoe


There isn't a cut card that indicates when they will shuffle the deck?


they take the cards out of the machine to deal so no one ever sees the cards. there is an open slot inside it and they take the card out right before it is dealt. and there is a slot in the top where the discarded cards are put back in

EDIT: heres a pic of what it sort of looks like http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VtBqfaAxfGA/R6jVLUPxCRI/AAAAAAAAADg/sdPo5-na4Ac/s400/shuffle.jpg


Yeah that would make it a lot harder to count if you can't tell how many decks are left.


is there any way to keep a count with something like this?


If you don't know how many decks are remaining it is impossible to count.


I played with some of those machines in Las Vegas, and I'm moderately certain that counting is pretty much impossible on those machines. Besides the fact that you don't know how many decks are in there, they refill it with the used cards often enough that you have very little info to work with. Essentially, they're re-shuffling after only a couple decks worth of cards have been dealt.

After reading this guide, I tried to do a little bit of card counting when I was up in Reno. It's pretty fun to do, since it requires a little more effort than regular blackjack. However, they only had single deck, so the strategy that I memorized was not quite optimal, and they only have 6:5 blackjack payout, so the house probably still had an edge on me.


Yeah, 6:5 payout is complete balls.
heroyi
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1064 Posts
July 11 2010 17:09 GMT
#94
I am thinking about card counting myself.

damn you had a couple of decks that go 80% penetration...wtf lol. im guessing the rules are a bit stricter though huh. btw on your log you have some red highlighted, does that mean you lost that much cause you lost about 4.3k lol that sucks(then again you gained 1.7k).

do you know any good casino, including borgata, that still do hand shuffling and not using csm (for those that dont know csm is a shuffling machine that randomly shuffles the deck on the whim thus eliminating the ability to card count).

also some questions for a nooby:

1. how long have you been card counting?
2. would you recommend any other system that is a more accurate then hi-lo (i find it easy and want to try to see if i can handle other system) maybe omega or the zen??
3. I noticed that your log states you played on average about 4 hours per day? would play longer means more or should i implement some sort of goal and get out.
4. what tips can you give me to not get noticed by the pit. it is difficult, i find still, to try to make eye contact and have a conversation while still trying to track the cards down.
5. how long should i scout a table and how do i know when to join a table?
6. can my bankroll be lower then 10k (that is fucking alot) to play a 10$minimum table?
7. oh and technically cant someone that knows and hates you fuck you over by telling the casino you are a counter lol.

thanks a lot
wat wat in my pants
Deadlift
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States358 Posts
March 29 2011 17:39 GMT
#95
Super old post but I saw a question in here I never answered. (Name change from Kishime -> Deadlift.)

On July 12 2010 02:09 heroyi wrote:
btw on your log you have some red highlighted, does that mean you lost that much cause you lost about 4.3k lol that sucks(then again you gained 1.7k).


Yep. Very rough stretch.

On July 12 2010 02:09 heroyi wrote:do you know any good casino, including borgata, that still do hand shuffling and not using csm (for those that dont know csm is a shuffling machine that randomly shuffles the deck on the whim thus eliminating the ability to card count).


Most casinos still do hand shuffling but it doesn't really matter though.


On July 12 2010 02:09 heroyi wrote:
1. how long have you been card counting?
2. would you recommend any other system that is a more accurate then hi-lo (i find it easy and want to try to see if i can handle other system) maybe omega or the zen??
3. I noticed that your log states you played on average about 4 hours per day? would play longer means more or should i implement some sort of goal and get out.
4. what tips can you give me to not get noticed by the pit. it is difficult, i find still, to try to make eye contact and have a conversation while still trying to track the cards down.
5. how long should i scout a table and how do i know when to join a table?
6. can my bankroll be lower then 10k (that is fucking alot) to play a 10$minimum table?
7. oh and technically cant someone that knows and hates you fuck you over by telling the casino you are a counter lol.

thanks a lot


1. Since the start of the log.
2. I've only done hi-lo.
3. You can play for however long you want. I just played until I didn't want to anymore.
4. Fake mustaches.
5. I just look for a halfway decent cut and then sit down. Sometimes it's hard enough to just find a table that actually has an open seat.
6. Yes, but the variance might wipe you out. If you're okay with the risk of losing everything, go for it.
7. Be friendly and nobody will hate you. : )
humanimal
Profile Joined June 2010
United States151 Posts
April 11 2011 02:55 GMT
#96
Gonna post so i can bookmark this. Thanks for the post; will look at it later. Definitely looks interesting
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