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widders:
LaughingTulkas, the point here is that people aren't going to lose a battlecruiser in every lowsec system every hour for the rest of EVE (edit: e.g. the amount of pvp stimulated by a change like this could not concievably counteract the amount of materials injected into the market by these changes). The amount of minerals these guys want to dump into the game is some horrifying, double-digit percentage of the current production; even disregarding that they want to do it passively and without any basis on player activity (if anything player activity would LOWER the amount of minerals given), this would completely skew the market and the game in extremely harsh ways that, by the end, nobody would want.
I guess here's where my inexperience shows, how much is this compared to mining for an hour? If it's too significant, then that's obviously bad, but that's a matter of numbers, not of the actual idea, which has kinda been my point. What do you think? The goal would be that this would make mining less desirable and PvPing for an EBU more desirable.
If it worked, people would fight over an EBU which is a more enjoyable way to spend an hour than mining.
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zzz
User was warned for this post
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
I think Johnny also meant 'places where your neutral RR isn't so safe' rather than 'where da pro pvp pilots are'
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On February 18 2011 07:11 tHornstein wrote:
zzz
alright, alright, i'm done, back to lurking and reading all your battle reports for me 
Sorry everyone! Not exactly how I hoped that would happen, trying to contribute led to forum spam. My bad!
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
nah thornton's zzz is just...thornton
you'd be surprised how many people would prefer mining to 'wtf is diz pvp'
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On February 18 2011 07:05 motbob wrote:
Quick note: trit prices spiking might not be all that relevant for the economy (I don't know cause I'm not in-game.)
The price of individual minerals isn't important. What's important is the so-called "mineral basket", which dictates the cost of production. Normally when trit increases, other mins will decrease at the same time to compensate. But in some situations the mineral basket as a whole will rise or fall, changing the cost of production.
There are theoretical reasons why this might happen, and I once saw someone make a lot of isk because he predicted a spike in the mineral basket, bet people on it (offering them odds), and saw his prediction come true.
Motbob is probably right. That's most likely got a large part in the recent spike in trit prices.
The large supercapital loss recently may also be to contribute, as the mineral market typically has a VERY rapid turnover. An extremely large purchase of mineral goods in a very short amount of time could empty out the buffers of one or more relevant minerals, leading into the aforementioned spike. Prices like these can take a long time to trickle back down to former levels due to the turnover rate, seller greed, and the general laziness of the playerbase when it comes to purchases.
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On February 18 2011 07:13 Firebolt145 wrote:
I think Johnny also meant 'places where your neutral RR isn't so safe' rather than 'where da pro pvp pilots are'
Because going places that are unsafe for you is by definition such a great idea :D
Addendum:
On February 18 2011 07:11 LaughingTulkas wrote:
I guess here's where my inexperience shows, how much is this compared to mining for an hour? If it's too significant, then that's obviously bad, but that's a matter of numbers, not of the actual idea, which has kinda been my point. What do you think? The goal would be that this would make mining less desirable and PvPing for an EBU more desirable.
If it worked, people would fight over an EBU which is a more enjoyable way to spend an hour than mining.
Yeah, it's like a guy who has max skills in the best exhumer, with someone hauling for him, tirelessly and flawlessly mining a perfect mix of minerals from a never-depleting and perfectly safe asteroid belt 24/7, even during downtime. Per station.
That's like eight fairly hardcore miners under normal operation.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
if you're gonna limit yourself based on what's safe and what isn't, you're gonna end up on 0 on high sec stations for the whole of your eve life :/
edit: hell that isn't safe, what with bumping. better stay docked and spin your ship!
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On February 18 2011 07:05 motbob wrote:
Quick note: trit prices spiking might not be all that relevant for the economy (I don't know cause I'm not in-game.)
The price of individual minerals isn't important. What's important is the so-called "mineral basket", which dictates the cost of production. Normally when trit increases, other mins will decrease at the same time to compensate. But in some situations the mineral basket as a whole will rise or fall, changing the cost of production.
There are theoretical reasons why this might happen, and I once saw someone make a lot of isk because he predicted a spike in the mineral basket, bet people on it (offering them odds), and saw his prediction come true.
That guy was also the one that did the whole prediction (and it was correct IIRC) of what will happen when the huge patch that revamped moon goo came out no?
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On February 18 2011 07:06 Widdershins wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 06:44 Johnny Business wrote:
Try moving out to 0.0/low sec where you can fight those of us who actually enjoy pvp if you want a real fight. Until then stop complaining about blobbing. You being the only one in corp doesn't matter when the hatchery clearly can't break your rr and if we get a fleet that can do it you dock up and never fights or gets concorded. Stop complaining about us not wanting to fight on your terms. There it is: TRY MOVING TO WHERE PRO PEOPLE ARE AND NOT HISEC WHERE WEENIES ARE Someone says it every time. Bro, you even brought all your best PVPers out to fight me. If you didn't, that's not my fault. So far, I haven't had to go to you, and that's the way it should be. I don't know what I said that you somehow interpreted as complaining. I think this is fun as hell, you guys are the ones who have people whining about how I don't fight you normally. When I get a magical cloning machine that can make ten of me appear in the game, I'll do that. 'Till then, lean forward and try to witness some unfamiliar tactics without condemning them just because they're new to you. <3 tofu, GF, etc. My recommendation is to always have an insta-dock bookmark for important stations, and if you don't, be ready to warp the right the hell back out when you land two accursed kilometers away in a pod. I am not going to grace Callum's abhorrent post with a response.
What you do is basically zero risk pvp. We will not grow by 20 people magically during a fight to gank your ship/rr and you know which ships we fly. You can keep track of us and just dock up when you feel unsafe (which is never with 3 neut reps). We had the element of surprise once with the scorpion and barely failed to kill you. Then they fitted eccm and were back at you knowing your odds 100%.
Im not complaining, but please, stop bragging, its nothing special really.
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On February 18 2011 07:06 Widdershins wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 06:44 Johnny Business wrote:
Try moving out to 0.0/low sec where you can fight those of us who actually enjoy pvp if you want a real fight. Until then stop complaining about blobbing. You being the only one in corp doesn't matter when the hatchery clearly can't break your rr and if we get a fleet that can do it you dock up and never fights or gets concorded. Stop complaining about us not wanting to fight on your terms. There it is: TRY MOVING TO WHERE PRO PEOPLE ARE AND NOT HISEC WHERE WEENIES ARE Someone says it every time. Bro, you even brought all your best PVPers out to fight me. If you didn't, that's not my fault. So far, I haven't had to go to you, and that's the way it should be. I don't know what I said that you somehow interpreted as complaining. I think this is fun as hell, you guys are the ones who have people whining about how I don't fight you normally. When I get a magical cloning machine that can make ten of me appear in the game, I'll do that. 'Till then, lean forward and try to witness some unfamiliar tactics without condemning them just because they're new to you. <3 tofu, GF, etc. My recommendation is to always have an insta-dock bookmark for important stations, and if you don't, be ready to warp the right the hell back out when you land two accursed kilometers away in a pod. I am not going to grace Callum's abhorrent post with a response.
Well I will answer cause im at work and lets face it, what else is there to do at (my) work.
The fact at hand (which you seem to not understand) is that youre the type of person that calls something ''a fight'', a situation where he dictates the rules and can escape safely if shit goes bad.
This is not about saying that ''alldaproz are in nullsec and lowsec'', its mostly about saying that you are obviously choosing the safest (and by safest I mean very very safe) way to ''pvp''. Im not saying this choice is wrong by itself, its obviously a different mentality, but trying to look superior to others when you chose the safe alternative just seems kinda odd to me.
Also I had a chuckle at the ''bro you brought your best pvpers to fight me'', youre definately a cutie (but you are not my bro, seriously, what kind of expression is that, are we all 16 and going to college ?)
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On February 18 2011 07:23 Firebolt145 wrote:
if you're gonna limit yourself based on what's safe and what isn't, you're gonna end up on 0 on high sec stations for the whole of your eve life :/
edit: hell that isn't safe, what with bumping. better stay docked and spin your ship!
Not at all. What's safe for one person is probably a very different set of things than it would be for another, depending on their experience.
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On February 18 2011 07:33 Widdershins wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 07:23 Firebolt145 wrote:
if you're gonna limit yourself based on what's safe and what isn't, you're gonna end up on 0 on high sec stations for the whole of your eve life :/
edit: hell that isn't safe, what with bumping. better stay docked and spin your ship! Not at all. What's safe for one person is probably a very different set of things than it would be for another, depending on their experience.
Yeah FB, I personnally think that a lot of person would consider very dangerous the fact of being able to undock a char with no risk at all because its highsec and he cant be shot, use this alt to see if any opponents are around, and if necessary probe with said alt that cant be shot.
BUT even riskier is to undock YOUR OWN WARSHIP and agress someone because there is the VERY LIKELY possibility that the 3 to 5 neutral reps that are under absolutely no danger MIGHT not provide you with enough reps for that 1 minute that you need to dock up your overly buffer tanked command ship.
This man is an adrenaline junkie.
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On February 18 2011 07:30 TurpinOS wrote:
The fact at hand (which you seem to not understand) is that youre the type of person that calls something ''a fight'', a situation where he dictates the rules and can escape safely if shit goes bad.
This is not about saying that ''alldaproz are in nullsec and lowsec'', its mostly about saying that you are obviously choosing the safest (and by safest I mean very very safe) way to ''pvp''. Im not saying this choice is wrong by itself, its obviously a different mentality, but trying to look superior to others when you chose the safe alternative just seems kinda odd to me.
Also I had a chuckle at the ''bro you brought your best pvpers to fight me'', youre definately a cutie (but you are not my bro, seriously, what kind of expression is that, are we all 16 and going to college ?)
I'm just doing what I do. I'm not "trying to look superior." If that's the way it appears to you, then maybe that's something to dwell on.
All I can tell from all this is that you are disgruntled that I don't warp around and take bait in asteroid belts in lowsec where I'm going to die horribly to 12 of you like a f***ing idiot.
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United States44451 Posts
I'm fairly certain that pretty much anyone can take a ship with the kind of resists a sleipnir has at sit it at 0 on a station with three neutral remote rep ships also at 0 on a station. The amount of firepower it'd take to break you before you deaggressed could not be realistically put together every time you felt like undocking. It's effective but I don't believe it to be particularly complicated.
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Use this fit and a 5% pg implant for epic 15.1 km/s bumpage without snakes/links!
+ Show Spoiler +
[Dramiel, speed]
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
10MN Digital Booster Rockets
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router II
Do it up.
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and the mass of a snowflake.
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On February 18 2011 07:38 Widdershins wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 07:30 TurpinOS wrote:
The fact at hand (which you seem to not understand) is that youre the type of person that calls something ''a fight'', a situation where he dictates the rules and can escape safely if shit goes bad.
This is not about saying that ''alldaproz are in nullsec and lowsec'', its mostly about saying that you are obviously choosing the safest (and by safest I mean very very safe) way to ''pvp''. Im not saying this choice is wrong by itself, its obviously a different mentality, but trying to look superior to others when you chose the safe alternative just seems kinda odd to me.
Also I had a chuckle at the ''bro you brought your best pvpers to fight me'', youre definately a cutie (but you are not my bro, seriously, what kind of expression is that, are we all 16 and going to college ?) I'm not "trying to look superior." .
On February 18 2011 02:20 Widdershins wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 02:09 Weken wrote:
We are moving to get away from gate guns and stuff, so we will be fighting in null-sec not low sec. Meaning that low-sec stuff wont effect us as much, IMO. Yes there will be some fighting in low-sec but most of it will be in null.
Or that is what i think is happning, what would be the point in moving away from emol to fight in low-sec, as there is a low-sec systems right next to emol. Is it too hard to cope in hisec for some reason?
This particular part can mean two things :
Either you are trying to look superior (aka the typical ''youre planning to move out of highsec cause you cant deal with me'')
OR
You are a very special man (You seriously think that it is a reasonable thing to say that high sec is harder to cope with then low or null)
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United States44451 Posts
On February 18 2011 07:38 Widdershins wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 07:30 TurpinOS wrote:
The fact at hand (which you seem to not understand) is that youre the type of person that calls something ''a fight'', a situation where he dictates the rules and can escape safely if shit goes bad.
This is not about saying that ''alldaproz are in nullsec and lowsec'', its mostly about saying that you are obviously choosing the safest (and by safest I mean very very safe) way to ''pvp''. Im not saying this choice is wrong by itself, its obviously a different mentality, but trying to look superior to others when you chose the safe alternative just seems kinda odd to me.
Also I had a chuckle at the ''bro you brought your best pvpers to fight me'', youre definately a cutie (but you are not my bro, seriously, what kind of expression is that, are we all 16 and going to college ?) I'm just doing what I do. I'm not "trying to look superior." If that's the way it appears to you, then maybe that's something to dwell on. All I can tell from all this is that you are disgruntled that I don't warp around and take bait in asteroid belts in lowsec where I'm going to die horribly to 12 of you like a f***ing idiot.
Just to clear something up, we're incredibly not blobby. It is incredibly rare we go into a fight with anything like the numbers we attack and pretty much unheard of that our fleet is worth more. We recently had a long war with the necro alliance in emol (I believe you know them) who outnumbered us 4 to 1, a war which we started because they looked like fun.
You're in a 1 man corp so to you obviously we'll appear blobby, especially because very few of us in the corp can fly anything that can rival a sleipnir for killing power. But if you saw us in low/null (or just read some of the BRs here) you'd see that we're the opposite.
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On February 18 2011 07:38 TurpinOS wrote:
overly buffer tanked command ship.
Not buffer tanked at all.
On February 18 2011 07:27 Warri wrote:
What you do is basically zero risk pvp. We will not grow by 20 people magically during a fight to gank your ship/rr and you know which ships we fly. You can keep track of us and just dock up when you feel unsafe (which is never with 3 neut reps). We had the element of surprise once with the scorpion and barely failed to kill you. Then they fitted eccm and were back at you knowing your odds 100%.
Im not complaining, but please, stop bragging, its nothing special really.
What you mean is, it doesn't seem that way to you now that you've seen it. If you were thinking this at the time, why did you do things the way you did?
And please stop accusing me of bragging. If you thought it was impressive, you can say so, but I should be allowed to talk about what I do without being called a braggart.
Addendum:
On February 18 2011 07:45 KwarK wrote:
You're in a 1 man corp so to you obviously we'll appear blobby, especially because very few of us in the corp can fly anything that can rival a sleipnir for killing power. But if you saw us in low/null (or just read some of the BRs here) you'd see that we're the opposite.
Yes, but from what I gather you also tend to lose quite a lot of ships doing that, even the big ones. And there seems to be some kind of unspoken assumption among several of the people in this discussion that the way hatch does things is clearly the best, and other ways are dumb because they are too far one way or the other.
TurpinOS:
Edit : was browsing through your KB to understand how to become pro, and I noticed you used to be part of the ORPHANAGEMASTERPVPALLIANCE, guess I dont have to ask myself anymore questions)
First post, last paragraph.
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EPT
