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If you haven't already,
- Rebind the hold command to the F key. It'll make last hitting and denying MUCH easier.
- Rebind your items to Z,X,C,V,B,N. It will make the use of items in clutch situations easier.
- Shift command when using courier. E+Shift R and no more worries.
- Shift command everything, really.
- Try playing pure support. It's a hard role to master but an easy one to learn the game by playing. Kills aren't everything.
- Look alive. If you are constantly moving in unpredictable directions it will be harder to hit you with spells.
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You want to know by heart exactly when a creep will die to one auto attack by looking at its hp bar.
At your level just prioritize last hitting creeps as harassing the other play won't do anything if you and your lane partner can not communicate.
IMO getting good enough to stay over 1500 MMR is pretty difficult as HoN as such a deep learning curve and it does not have a bonus pool like SC2 does. I know some people that have been playing for quite a long time and they are still barely above 1500. The sad part is, you're not good at HoN until you can hit like 1900 MMR because there is such a huge difference between low level play, pubstar play, "high level play" and high level play
Oh yeah, if you're on right now I can give you an invite to TL
SuperiorWolf you still play?
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On May 11 2011 15:00 GhostKorean wrote:
You want to know by heart exactly when a creep will die to one auto attack by looking at its hp bar.
At your level just prioritize last hitting creeps as harassing the other play won't do anything if you and your lane partner can not communicate.
IMO getting good enough to stay over 1500 MMR is pretty difficult as HoN as such a deep learning curve and it does not have a bonus pool like SC2 does. I know some people that have been playing for quite a long time and they are still barely above 1500. The sad part is, you're not good at HoN until you can hit like 1900 MMR because there is such a huge difference between low level play, pubstar play, "high level play" and high level play
Oh yeah, if you're on right now I can give you an invite to TL
SuperiorWolf you still play?
Look how far Testie got just by being the best at last hitting.
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On May 11 2011 14:59 LordWeird wrote:
If you haven't already,
- Rebind the hold command to the F key. It'll make last hitting and denying MUCH easier.
- Rebind your items to Z,X,C,V,B,N. It will make the use of items in clutch situations easier.
- Shift command when using courier. E+Shift R and no more worries.
- Shift command everything, really.
- Try playing pure support. It's a hard role to master but an easy one to learn the game by playing. Kills aren't everything.
- Look alive. If you are constantly moving in unpredictable directions it will be harder to hit you with spells.
i would advise to take this advice but not as written. what i mean is, lordweird wrote out stuff that made certain aspects (like hold position or using items) easy for him. if you find yourself not liking H for hold position, change it to whatever you think is comfortable. same for items if the default alt+<key> doesn't work for you
but if it does, no reason to change it. (i use H for hold position and one of my item slots is the default alt+d and that works fine for me)
everyone has their own customizations. hell, i don't even have a QWER setup for my skills which sometimes gets me lost in conversations that go like 'use Q to harass and when you see an opportunity R then W him' and i have to think about it for a while, haha
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Yeah. Maybe I should have clarified. Rebind those keys though. Nobody wants to have to hold alt and press something just to use an item. I think those specific examples I saw in a Nigma video and decided to use them for myself.
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Ya I've been playing a bit again after I saw Testie's stream and my friend keeps asking me to play with him. Add me let's play! :D SWBKSuppy is my name
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to be fair, these are all minute details and will never really matter. it's kind of like the stop-larva trick in scbw. yeah it's a good habit to get into but it's not going to win you a game, and i don't really think beginners (or anyone really) should concern themselves with it, they'll figure it out as they go along. same goes for how to last hit, whether that be move spam, S spam or H spam and other minor stuff like that
at hon's core, beginners should figure out what heroes are capable of and learn laning (lasthitting, positioning etc). those 2 combined with paying attention to the minimap is good enough to catapult you wayyy above 1500.
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I bound my items to exactly that mostly because thats what I used extensively in WoW and it's extremely comfortable.
I generally pick my hero based on my teams generally totally random selections. I stick to support mostly but sometimes the team doesn't even have a decent semi carry in which case I play hag or mq.
Quite fond of magmus lately though. It would be nice to play with someone that can take advantage of my roaming. I get called a noob for not staying in the 212 lol. I know better but it can get frustrating.
Also I'm finding an increasing amount of times I'm practically forced mid because noone wants to do it. I figured people would be fighting over going solo...This is primarily why I'm concerning myself with the mechanics of csing. I'm constantly in a position where I deal primarily with it.
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On May 11 2011 15:21 JeeJee wrote:
to be fair, these are all minute details and will never really matter. it's kind of like the stop-larva trick in scbw. yeah it's a good habit to get into but it's not going to win you a game, and i don't really think beginners (or anyone really) should concern themselves with it
Oh man If I hadn't rebound my keys I probably wouldnt still be playing HoN. It's like playing Protoss all over again.
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Just a question, what is the main difference between HoN and LoL?
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On May 11 2011 15:42 iTzAnglory wrote:
Just a question, what is the main difference between HoN and LoL?
No, just no. This has been discussed too many times just google it this is not a LOL thread for christ' sake. Also the last few pages have been full of LoL/hon bashing/comparisons
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On May 11 2011 15:42 iTzAnglory wrote:
Just a question, what is the main difference between HoN and LoL?
HoN stands for Heroes of Newerth and LoL stands for League of Legends.
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i started playing dota about 2 months ago, i've tried half of the heroes, know how most of them work (still not familiar with item choices, but i do have a general idea of what hero combination to pick for the team and im pretty good with farming/killing/leveling up in general)
imo from experience, most noob friendly heroes (easiest to play, in order of ease) are:
goblin techies (sentinel intelligence)
there are several good places to put mines for easy kills, in general it takes time to recognize these places but if ur a noob just run up to a yellow hp hero and suicide for easy kill
get mana regen items and spam mines everywhere
bane elemental (scourge intelligence)
multiple enemies killing you -> sleep one, brainsap one to heal, attempt to escape
low health enemy -> brainsap/fiend grip if u have ally
spirit breaker (scourge strength)
only two buttons -> charge any target you see farming and nether strike
of course, it takes skill to play these heroes well, but these are easy heroes to begin with (and get early/easy kills with)
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On May 11 2011 16:03 saltywet wrote:
i started playing dota about 2 months ago, i've tried half of the heroes, know how most of them work (still not familiar with item choices, but i do have a general idea of what hero combination to pick for the team and im pretty good with farming/killing/leveling up in general)
imo from experience, most noob friendly heroes (easiest to play, in order of ease) are:
goblin techies (sentinel intelligence)
there are several good places to put mines for easy kills, in general it takes time to recognize these places but if ur a noob just run up to a yellow hp hero and suicide for easy kill
get mana regen items and spam mines everywhere
bane elemental (scourge intelligence)
multiple enemies killing you -> sleep one, brainsap one to heal, attempt to escape
low health enemy -> brainsap/fiend grip if u have ally
spirit breaker (scourge strength)
only two buttons -> charge any target you see farming and nether strike
of course, it takes skill to play these heroes well, but these are easy heroes to begin with (and get early/easy kills with)
leoric is "easy" to play too. but only bane is in HoN unadulterated, rampage is pretty different from spiritbreaker now.
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How the hell does one play Puppet Master?
I get Puppet's Hold, Whiplash, and Voodoo Puppet. Those are pretty self explanatory really regardless of how difficult chaining Voodoo Puppet + Whiplash is on the thing you want to kill considering that VP ends up right next to your Puppet Master.
Puppet Show is kinda weird to me and I have a hard time grasping how to even use it properly. To me it seems like a disable and nothing more. Am I supposed to chain this thing with VP so that they attack their own VP or something? In that case I can freely attack the hero instead of the VP and just "stack" damage with whiplash I guess without all the ridiculous logistics it would otherwise be.
It could also just be a disable and I'm over thinking it.
I also have a hard time grasping how to even item build this thing. I'd imagine the route would be similar to MQ...but not really... without the Bottle? A bottle doesn't seem very useful on a Puppet Master to me because he simply doesn't really rely on mana like Hag or something. I was thinking along the lines of Steam Boots -> Whispering Helm -> Shrunken Head -> Assassins Shroud? -> Savage Mace? -> Symbol of Rage. I just notice a severe attack speed problem until real late game. MQ seems to get attack speed soo much quicker to the point I'm not even sure it's just because MQ is an agility carry. Maybe I'm a moron or maybe I'm just biased towards MQ because Geo Bane Multi Strike looks amazing? Who knows.
Now I know that item builds in general are greatly situational but I always like to start with at least a basis to fall back on that I can adapt to depending on the situation. I'm attempting to get a broad range of foundation so that I can just change it depending on what my situation is. This way I can understand the thought behind why the item choices are made and it just..helps when I move on to other heroes. I was able to get MQ down much quicker than Hag/Mag because of prior experience. In fact most heroes seem to have a relatively obvious path of items they get and such. Puppet Master kinda eludes me because intellect carry is something I haven't really paid any attention to. If I can understand WHY I get certain items on puppet master I can just go to another hero that similar and be fine.
I definitely notice now that when I make mistakes I know what I did wrong and I generally stop myself from doing it again. My "retard" death counter has dropped enormously and the amount of vile slander directed at me has lessened considerably in the pub arena. I guess that's something. Map awareness and general prediction has really gone up with the mass gaming I'm doing. Even when pubs do retarded tower dives I generally saw it coming. I still need to work on warding a bit better but with so much shit going on I just forget about it sometimes. Still working on best ward positions at that. I'll probably just have to ask someone who is better where those spots are.
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PM is quite easy to play, he is a range carry with semi disables. He can also be played as a support, which is fun but won't work outside pubs.
Your first skill depends on your lane. If you expect your team to go for 1st blood take puppet show/hold first. If you expect a farm game and have mates to protect you, or if you're mid get whiplash first.
Anyway whiplash is maxed first with one level in Q and W.
The usual build with him is 6rune / 3rune+pot - 2 minor totems - 2 mantles (+3int)
Steam boots and Helm are your 1st items to pick. After that it depends, if you're going to gank/fight a lot early on shroud is the most popular one, shrunken is mandatory in most of the case since pm is dangerous enough to get focused all the time.
After that it depends on your enemies line up. Hellflower, sheepstick, savage mace, geo bane and archon are the late game items on pm, each one of them is very good.
As for the puppet there are several way to use it:
- Quick burst: you put it, activate shroud, use whiplash+crit on it => over 1000 damage with only a little stuff.
- long range attack: you put it, auto attack your target and when he flees, instead of pursuing him you stand your ground and pound the puppet; it has a 1600range link.
- Team focus: Put it in plain sight in a team fight and let your allies do the job.
- Tower support: early game, a tower shooting at your puppet deals nasty damage.
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Just think of it as a disable AS LONG AS your target will attack something. Otherwise use hold and move next to it. Sometimes you can use it against their carry and the target will deal some nice damage to whoever it attacks but that usually won't happen.
People seem to go different paths but it's steamboots->helm into whatever. Dominate minions, stack ancients. Some go shroud, some go geo, savage, claw (don't remember last time I saw this), bkb at the right times. Finish Symbol later.
MQ is an agi carry, but with a strong nuke and a terrible range. Her other skin looks cool though.
PM isn't your typical int carry because he autoattacks for damage. Others like Tort/Hag/SR carry with their durability and spell damage.
Also note show'd targets can target voodoo puppet as well, resulting in some hilarious kills.
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Puppet show is just a disable and you're overthinking it. It also works very well against carries, cast it on a farmed hero and they'll demolish whoever they target
In theory you can show them to attack their own puppet and then hit them a lot until whiplash procs and hits your target and their 1 hp (nonlethal damage on show) puppet but really that's never going to happen
I like to do steams > whispering helm (stack ancients) > shrunken head > hellflower/sor/whatever, but shroud is really good on him too (usually before shrunken sometime). If you get shroud/phase early enough you can easily be doing 500 damage with a whiplash out of shroud
Skill (generally): qeewerewwwr (solo) or qweeerewwwr (trilane) or some variation of a 1141 at lv7
Core:
Steams: Helps low hp, nice aspd boost too
or Phase: +24 damage, +48 damage on whiplash is sick. Also lets you run faster
Whispering helm: Already-high dps due to whiplash means lots of lifeleech, whiplash aoe means easy kills on stacked ancients. Armor boost helps his squishiness
Shroud: Not really core but really good on him, since whiplash + bonus damage does a ridiculous amount of damage. Decent escape mechanism, can set up easy ganks. Also lets you run faster
Shrunken: Lots of innate dps and low hp, often focused etc
Luxury:
Hellflower: Ridiculous amount of damage boost especially on int carries
SoR: Builds from whispering helm, lots of survivability
Daemonic: Lots of survivability and good damage boost
Savage mace: Useful against wingbow (but more importantly missing uphill sucks)
Sheepstick: Sick disable, not bad damage
Warding:
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=255280
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the strength of puppet master is his flexibility - as soon as you just force yourself to one itembuild you are playing the hero incorrectly. of course you can do that and it will win you games as puppet master is one of the better heroes in the game, but anyone actually giving a concise answer to your question is in the same boat as you are. just get whatever you feel comfortable with, and rest assured, you are not over-thinking things.
also, if you cant seem to learn anything from your own games, watch how other, good players play puppet. replays are very accessible and very helpful to get the answers you are looking for, asking a general question here is not.
edit: you always want both disables at least on level 1 - and puppet show is the strongest disable in hon if used properly.
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Any of you wanna play a game or two add: Woooob (4 o's) on HoN x)
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EPT
