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On October 09 2020 14:17 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2020 09:50 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 08 2020 09:07 andrewlt wrote:On September 26 2020 03:35 akatama wrote:On September 25 2020 21:57 Manit0u wrote:
I've always thought Empire was rather weak as an opponent. Hellstorms are easy to avoid, demis aren't what they used to be. Just need a force that can advance relatively fast but I remember I've had 0 problem with them even with slower armies like Chaos and Vampire Counts (and if you ambush them they can't do shit). Hellstorms do some nasty things when they do connect. I had black knights go from full health to crumbling because they ate a single close range rocket volley as they charged the battery. Empire leadership is through the roof since their update. Gold chevron state troops go over 100 leadership and at least on Legendary the AI gets the experience insanely quick. Hell I've seen Greatswords get nuked, only 3 models left alive and they were steady. I have also been slapped with two armies of 46 MA swordsmen on turn 8 as Ghorst. The only thing left to do in campaigns like that is either to restart and pray the AI doesn't get the versus techs too quick or pray the AI does something stupid. Are they that good? Last time I played Empire was Warhammer 1 and I preferred mortars, tanks and arks to the rockets. Even on lower difficulties, Franz can be a time with a doomstack with 4-6 tanks. In campaign Hellstorm Rocket batteries are the best unit in the entire Empire Roster and it's not close at all. Mortars are good early on, but Hellstorms massively outclass them in every situation except for defensive siege battles where Mortars reign supreme. I might make that my next campaign after finishing Three Kingdoms, then. I have a thing for artillery and ranged units. Looking forward to the new WE DLC, even though that's the only faction so far I've played multiple times.
You're gonna love dwarfs in that case.
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I did not get very far with them either, due to the amber mechanic. But I do like their unit roster and theme.
Skaven are like the favourite child of WH2 I feel, but with that said, I still want Stormfiends
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They are SUCH a nuisance in campaign though. They pull seemingly endless devastating lightnings out of their @&€, get free units every 30 seconds that they can just spawn on your artillery and have unreachable suppressing units that transform your dragons into immobile sitting ducks.
I don't mind them being strong, but so many of their mechanics are just complete BS.
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Is it me or did they add a lot of special lords for the minor factions? I don't know if they have any special abilities, but they seem to have unique models and lines.
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On October 10 2020 03:58 Jerubaal wrote: Is it me or did they add a lot of special lords for the minor factions? I don't know if they have any special abilities, but they seem to have unique models and lines. Afaik the only factions that have legendary lords are the playable ones. Except the Everwatcher, they are all playable. So depends a bit what you mean by minor faction.
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I finally have a machine that coul run twwh2, is it still worth getting, or should I wait for part 3? I had a blast with the old world campaign of warhammer 1!
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I would definitely recommend getting 2. If you own 1 aswell you can play the combined maps with all races which is great, and presumably the same will again happen with WH 3.
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On October 11 2020 22:11 Branch.AUT wrote: I finally have a machine that coul run twwh2, is it still worth getting, or should I wait for part 3? I had a blast with the old world campaign of warhammer 1!
2 has some definite improvements over 1 and if you already own twwh1 it's even better as you get access to mortal empires campaign where you can play any faction on a humongous map.
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I've played the Vortex map once, I like the Old World too much. But yeah, you really need to buy the second game if you liked the first. Mortal Empire is a blast and you'll need the 2 to play its races in te third installement.
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On October 11 2020 02:50 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 03:58 Jerubaal wrote: Is it me or did they add a lot of special lords for the minor factions? I don't know if they have any special abilities, but they seem to have unique models and lines. Afaik the only factions that have legendary lords are the playable ones. Except the Everwatcher, they are all playable. So depends a bit what you mean by minor faction.
I guess it's just unique faction leaders that have voicelines for interactions but not actual models.
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On October 10 2020 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote: They are SUCH a nuisance in campaign though. They pull seemingly endless devastating lightnings out of their @&€, get free units every 30 seconds that they can just spawn on your artillery and have unreachable suppressing units that transform your dragons into immobile sitting ducks.
I don't mind them being strong, but so many of their mechanics are just complete BS. For me it's the other way round. Imo Skaven should be about having bs mechanics that you need to take into account, I like menace below f.e. because to me this fits well and is unique.
What I don't like is that their ranged units are actually really strong on their own. For Sc2 I always didn't like how Protoss had the great book of cheese while the units all talked about honor and they had this elitism theme going on. Skaven imo should be exclusively about cheese and weird ways to counter units, they should always be a quirky faction utilizing smoke and mirror tactics and not one that drops a nuke on your head and corner camps because their ranged is busted.
On October 11 2020 02:50 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 03:58 Jerubaal wrote: Is it me or did they add a lot of special lords for the minor factions? I don't know if they have any special abilities, but they seem to have unique models and lines. Afaik the only factions that have legendary lords are the playable ones. Except the Everwatcher, they are all playable. So depends a bit what you mean by minor faction. IIRC there are a bunch of somewhat unique Lords that aren't playable. IIRC most of the minor faction leaders are somewhat scripted, immortal and static. Popular examples are Surtha Ek (who gives a LL trait to some) and Boris, but I seem to remember that the Ghrond faction always has the same sorceress and that many of the elector counts at least have immortal generic Lords with a scripted name.
@Jerubaal Mixxu's Lords mods go a lot further in giving them unique models, mechanics and abilities and are something I highly recommend even in a mostly vanilla game.
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Edit: Double, my bad. Would appreciate if an admin could delete this.
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On October 12 2020 01:47 Archeon wrote: For me it's the other way round. Imo Skaven should be about having bs mechanics that you need to take into account, I like menace below f.e. because to me this fits well and is unique.
What I don't like is that their ranged units are actually really strong on their own. For Sc2 I always didn't like how Protoss had the great book of cheese while the units all talked about honor and they had this elitism theme going on. Skaven imo should be exclusively about cheese and weird ways to counter units, they should always be a quirky faction utilizing smoke and mirror tactics and not one that drops a nuke on your head and corner camps because their ranged is busted.
I also agree with Skaven being cheesy (and liking it). I think that their ranged being so strong should be toned down. I don't mind it being strong, but it should be limited somehow (not to mention crazy synergies with warpgale and such).
Personally I'd love for all the factions to receive the TK mechanic where you need to build specific buildings to recruit limited amounts of certain units. This would go a long way with leveling the playing field (effectively destroying the concept of a doomstack). I think it might also help with order-ball and a lot of bullshit in general.
I'm of the opinion that the game should be tailored to encourage the use of mixed arms and various units. This would definitely make battles more enjoyable.
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I liked playing the Skaven when I did my campaign with them. I didn't have any DLC though, so the roster was toned down and I only had a few of their units.
My annoyance with them is how powerful their stupid towers are when defending sieges. Siege battles are already my most disliked type of battle and this makes it even worse. I get that defenders need to have an advantage but it's done in a way that's no fun right now. I pretty much employ the cheesiest tactics I can think of in siege battles.
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On October 12 2020 12:23 Manit0u wrote:
Personally I'd love for all the factions to receive the TK mechanic where you need to build specific buildings to recruit limited amounts of certain units. This would go a long way with leveling the playing field (effectively destroying the concept of a doomstack). I think it might also help with order-ball and a lot of bullshit in general.
I'm of the opinion that the game should be tailored to encourage the use of mixed arms and various units. This would definitely make battles more enjoyable.
That doesn't happen with unit caps. If anything it pushes suboptimal units aside more because I can't slap a single smithy and pump out 6-8 chariots for a meme stack. You still build mage towers and dragon keeps in every province because of extra heroes and factionwide effects as HE for example. That means a ton of dragons and swordmasters available. It doesn't limit doomstacks at all.
Want a non-speculative example? Look at Tomb Scorpions, Necrosphinxes or the snake cav. Cool units but limited effectiveness, it's better to slap down Hierotitans, Warsphinxes, Ushabti and Bone Giants instead. Your average Tomb Kings city looks like this:
Industry Walls Harbor/Resource/Landmark Ushabti Bone Giant (gives factionwide lord recruit rank)
That's 5 building slots locked in out of 7. God forbid you have both a resource and a pyramid to build. The final slots go to barracks, hierotitans, warsphinxes or PO buildings. Catapults are never on my mind because one building slot for one catapult is terrible slot management. I'd rather build a barracks, it gives me more units to use overall.
Doomstacks happen because of a combination of factors. The most important is momentum. The AI always recruits faster and has better units, even on lower difficulties. The moment you start being reactive instead of proactive your campaign goes south. You want a quality army that takes minor losses from standard engagements and never takes more than the turn you spend in the settlement you just captured to replenish. The second is ammo, healing cap and magic power reserve recovering after every battle combined with Lighting Strike letting you abuse those mechanics. Third is supply lines murdering any idea of having more, less elite armies entirely.
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For Skaven, tone down ranged, beef up melee (especially leadership) a bit?
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On October 14 2020 06:08 Jerubaal wrote: For Skaven, tone down ranged, beef up melee (especially leadership) a bit?
The whole idea behind skaven is that they're cowardly. They should definitely not up their leadership.
I don't remember if they have scurry away though (increased movement when fleeing). In theory Skaven should be a bit like trolls, running away but coming back later and with increased movement speed it would require fast cavalry to chase them down. It would make them super annoying, but would be true to the lore (they should get bonus leadership depending on how many of the units at full strength remain, going into penalties when they drop below 50% - strength in numbers).
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reasonably sure Skaven have increased speed when broken yes.
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All Skaven units have Strength in Numbers (extra MD and leadership, but reduced speed when above 50% health) and Scurry Away (increased speed when on low morale). They already do this.
Fun fact: because Eshin doesn't use loyalty, a tech buffing loyalty is replaced by one giving their units extra +6 MA and MD at the cost of +20% upkeep. Now as a tech I find it of questionable use given the high price, but as a skill on a Warlord it would be perfect to make melee skaven more of a thing.
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The buff for Skaven infantry I would like to see was just hp and model increases for low tier skaven. They should break easily and rout, but they should be threatening if they come back multiple times. Make the player chase them off the field with fast units. Lucky's overhaul does this in a way already by giving them regeneration, but imo it could be a bit less extreme than in Lucky's where you need to rout them all at the same time or even clanrats are freaking dangerous.
The problem with army diversity is imo mostly related to the lack of rock-paper-scissor in the lategame and due to supply lines. In midgame halberds can stop monstrous infantry f.e. and you can run halberd+archers or anti-large cav + aggressive infantry. Once t4 hits the field infantry and cav can't compete anymore with single entities and massing your strongest monster becomes the meta strat.
The only alternative is mass ranged because ranged is numerically busted and scales only up with tech. Low tier units are on average more resilient to missile fire than high tier and once these high dps AP ranged units hit the field elite ranged can mow down armies before they get in melee range.
On a completely unrelated note I hate Alith Anar with a passion. I'd rather get nuked by Ikkit than ambushed by AA. Fuck this mechanic and fuck it doubly on the already busted HEs. /rant
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