EPTAlso, if we're counting the whole game and not just sacrifices to beat Ch. 10, the best unit to kill off is Shura cuz you get Boots for doing it, lol.
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Also, if we're counting the whole game and not just sacrifices to beat Ch. 10, the best unit to kill off is Shura cuz you get Boots for doing it, lol. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On April 18 2016 14:58 TheYango wrote: Effie's useful for 17, but hardly essential. Even then, she still eats a large amount of investment to get there, and raising a 4 Mov unit for 10 chapters isn't justified for just a single chapter. There are plenty of other high-Def units that can have WTA vs. Ninjas that can handle that chapter, and Xander's still ahead of the game so you can crutch on him somewhat. Effie's a growth unit that pays off if her growths end up on her good side, but she's not necessarily more consistent than the other growth units by a significant stretch. She has better combat than Silas when she pans out, but the tradeoff that you have to do a lot more work to make her useful before she gets there because she's a 4 mov unit until promotion while Silas is mounted immediately. Nyx's pair up boosts aren't necessarily used for Leo since Felicia gives largely similar bonuses for a lot less work (she starts promoted so you don't need to invest in her to get promo pair up bonuses). Leo's not the only unit that can use a boost to Mag from pair up though--she can be used to help out a +Mag MU or even if Camilla needs a Mag boost in a pinch. I see... I actually use felicia for Xander pair up. I don't seem to find enough speedwings to consistently get 2 hits in. Although admittedly effie's 4 movement is annoying her early game dominance allows her to get promoted to GK relatively early. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On April 18 2016 15:47 TheYango wrote: Charlotte exists to be strapped on Xander's back to give him the best pair up bonuses in the game (other than the servant personal ones for the avatar) + access to Hero for Sol and an unmounted sword class for 26. Also, if we're counting the whole game and not just sacrifices to beat Ch. 10, the best unit to kill off is Shura cuz you get Boots for doing it, lol. Well that's an intentional kill off, slightly different circumstance ^^ | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 18 2016 15:44 chocorush wrote: Nyx is pretty expendable if we're trying to choose a unit to kill off. As mentioned Felicia is way easier, and it's pretty rare for magic units to need even more damage, and if you used Odin, Ophelia gets you an extra sorcerer if you really need pair up bonuses. Maybe Benny is a little bit better to kill off, but Benny might be better at being a walking nuke for the most part and the +def pair ups are more useful throughout the game than Nyx (you have more options for physical pair ups, but I'd probably rather be stuck with Benny in a draft run than Nyx). If you have the full cast and not a draft run, I'd say Laslow is more expendable. On a one-to-one comparison, he's a better unit than either of them, but he's more expendable because he has less distinguishing things that make him an interesting unit to use--he's just another sword combat unit in a game where you're basically never lacking a sword combat unit. You've got Avatar, Pally Jakob if you have him, both cavs, Xander, plus kids--there's virtually never a scenario where you'd think "man, I wish I had another unit that uses swords". On April 18 2016 16:03 Cricketer12 wrote: I see... I actually use felicia for Xander pair up. I don't seem to find enough speedwings to consistently get 2 hits in. Ch. 17 Ninjas have 18 Spd, buffed to 20 by Shurikens. Xander recruits with 15 speed, 1 Speedwing gets him to 17, Speed Tonic gets him to 19, Mess Hall buff to 20/21 depending on the cook. Felicia/Selena C support give +4 speed, bringing him to 24/25, which can double the Ninjas if you're lucky. Alternatively, Kaze C rank is +5, which doesn't need you to luck out with your cook. Or, if he gained a level on Ch. 16, Defender gives him a guaranteed +1 Spd. EDIT: Needed to double-check if my data for Ch. 17 Ninja speed included the Shuriken buff. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On April 18 2016 16:07 TheYango wrote: If you have the full cast and not a draft run, I'd say Laslow is more expendable. On a one-to-one comparison, he's a better unit than either of them, but he's more expendable because he has less distinguishing things that make him an interesting unit to use--he's just another sword combat unit in a game where you're basically never lacking a sword combat unit. You've got Avatar, Pally Jakob if you have him, both Cavs, Xander, plus kids--there's virtually never a scenario where you'd think "man, I wish I had another unit that uses swords". Ch. 17 Ninjas have 18 Spd, buffed to 20 by Shurikens. Xander recruits with 15 speed, 1 Speedwing gets him to 17, Speed Tonic gets him to 19, Mess Hall buff to 20/21 depending on the cook. Felicia/Selena C support give +4 speed, bringing him to 24/25, which can double the Ninjas if you're lucky. Alternatively, Kaze C rank is +5, which doesn't need you to luck out with your cook. Or, if he gained a level on Ch. 16, Defender gives him a guaranteed +1 Spd. EDIT: Needed to double-check if my data for Ch. 17 Ninja speed included the Shuriken buff. Holy crap i totally forgot tonics! Im currently on chap 20 for my lunatic run tonics could really help. Let me be a bit clearer i use felicia because his speed lacks without her. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 18 2016 16:28 Cricketer12 wrote: Holy crap i totally forgot tonics! Im currently on chap 20 for my lunatic run tonics could really help. Mess Hall is pretty great too. On my first playthrough I didn't use Mess Hall at all, and it totally changed my game on the second playthrough. Also, the Chef Hat is just the most ridiculous accessory because being able to lock Percy, Peri, or Jakob into the Mess Hall slot is just insane (all 3 give the same bonus of +1 to both ingredient stats/+2 to a random stat). On April 18 2016 16:28 Cricketer12 wrote: Let me be a bit clearer i use felicia because his speed lacks without her. Felicia, Selena, and Charlotte all give equivalent +Spd at S-rank, Charlotte just doesn't give any personal +Spd until A rank. They're all decent for Xander, but +8 Str and access to Fighter!Hero is just slightly better than the alternatives. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On April 18 2016 16:36 TheYango wrote: Mess Hall is pretty great too. On my first playthrough I didn't use Mess Hall at all, and it totally changed my game on the second playthrough. Also, the Chef Hat is just the most ridiculous accessory because being able to lock Percy, Peri, or Jakob into the Mess Hall slot is just insane (all 3 give the same bonus of +1 to both ingredient stats/+2 to a random stat). Felicia, Selena, and Charlotte all give equivalent +Spd at S-rank, Charlotte just doesn't give any personal +Spd until A rank. They're all decent for Xander, but +8 Str and access to Fighter!Hero is just slightly better than the alternatives. That actually really helps. Hmm i have some work to do... | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
I made Nyx a witch with the Witch seal, so she's no expendable for me. Odin will be gone once I get his kid, he's currently just paired up with Elise for the support buildup and to give her more MAG. I actually lost Beruka somewhere but didn't even notice until after I saved because I was playing during queues while in the Overwatch weekend. I have Silas/Selena paired and Selena has gotten weird ass level ups to be more defensively bulky than anyone except Effie/Benny (including prepromote Corrin w/ Dragonstone), and faster than everyone except Niles/Kaze/Mizou. I also spent a shitload of time and resources promoting Mizou to Kinshi Knight and it paid off huge, she can pretty much ORKO anything I want and nobody can hit her worth shit. I kind of really want to start using Kaze becaues Midori is a fucking boss in my Revelation playthrough, but I can't really find a great place to put him. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Bulky Selena isn't actually that weird, her defensive growths are pretty good, especially if you stayed in Merc rather than reclassing to Sky Knight. It's her HP growth that has more of a tendency to fall behind. Midori's an awkward kid to use for two reasons: 1) Her personal speed growth is garbage, but Kaze's is overkill, so pairings that are good for one clash with the other. 2) She starts in a bad class that only progresses a single weapon rank, so in the context of Conquest where you can't grind to raise weapon ranks, she has to be recruited late so that she can get a second non-E weapon rank from Merchant/Mechanist if she wants to use better reclass options. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 19 2016 00:13 TheYango wrote: How much did you use the DV on that map? I actually didn't know that DVing the enemies drops gold the first time through so I made the effort to kill everyone. But the DV gives 500g per enemy hit with it, which is both more useful than getting all the XP and makes the map much easier. Bulky Selena isn't actually that weird, her defensive growths are pretty good, especially if you stayed in Merc rather than reclassing to Sky Knight. It's her HP growth that has more of a tendency to fall behind. Midori's an awkward kid to use for two reasons: 1) Her personal speed growth is garbage, but Kaze's is overkill, so pairings that are good for one clash with the other. 2) She starts in a bad class that only progresses a single weapon rank, so in the context of Conquest where you can't grind to raise weapon ranks, she has to be recruited late so that she can get a second non-E weapon rank from Merchant/Mechanist if she wants to use better reclass options. It doesn't tell you that they give you gold at the time, I did use it to wipe out 4 units, but only once right at the very end. Camping the corner lets all of the units funnel into the DV at the same time, I could have gotten more, but wanted the XP. In Revelation, I got her late enough to have one of those kid seals that put her at lvl 3 Mechanist, but her STR growth was so damn high that even with a Bronze Shuriken she could ORKO pretty much any archer or caster, and ORKO most Heroes/Pallies with an Iron Bow. Then again, I had her paired with a Bow Knight the whole time (Nina). | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
I think it's a pretty cool gimmick that changes the dynamics of a rout map, just marred a bit by poor conveyance. | ||
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chocorush
696 Posts
Mess Hall is pretty silly. Free stat boosts of your choice doesn't really feel well thought out as far as balance goes. Tonics are similar as they're just so cost effective, and +1/+2 forges are pretty much 1k or 2k energy drops and skill books. All of this combined makes Conquest feel a little on the easy side, while using none of them makes the game seriously more difficult. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 19 2016 01:29 deth2munkies wrote: In Revelation, I got her late enough to have one of those kid seals that put her at lvl 3 Mechanist, but her STR growth was so damn high that even with a Bronze Shuriken she could ORKO pretty much any archer or caster, and ORKO most Heroes/Pallies with an Iron Bow. Then again, I had her paired with a Bow Knight the whole time (Nina). Who was her mom? Midori's personal Str growth is pretty average (35%). Apoth's class growth of 20 is pretty great, but she'd still need one of the moms that gives a big +Str growth and there's less of those on Conquest than Rev. On April 19 2016 01:46 chocorush wrote: Kaze is also a pretty good pair up for Xander if you're fine not getting to Siegbert. 5 speed, +1 Mov like selena but also leaving her free to speed rally same turn. You get access to replicate as well. Plus taking Xander through Master Ninja actually balances him out a bit, since the stats that Ninja gets in overkill amounts are the ones where Xander needs the most help. On April 19 2016 01:46 chocorush wrote: Mess Hall is pretty silly. Free stat boosts of your choice doesn't really feel well thought out as far as balance goes. Tonics are similar as they're just so cost effective, and +1/+2 forges are pretty much 1k or 2k energy drops and skill books. All of this combined makes Conquest feel a little on the easy side, while using none of them makes the game seriously more difficult. I'd blame this on the online My Castle features rather than on Mess Hall itself. Mostly the fact that gems and ingredients are essentially limitless resources basically means that the mechanic is gated purely be tedium rather than by legitimate resource management. Corollary to this is that in a no-My Castle playthrough, the difficulty is drastically affected by what resources you were randomly assigned. The random assignment essentially exists to encourage you to go visit other people for the resources you want, but it's also just not very balanced otherwise since not all resources are equally useful. I think these mechanics can be balanced in FE15 if they cost money or another finite resource rather than an infinitely available one, and are not linked to StreetPass/online features. | ||
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
I wouldn't have guessed that they would "die" and give you 500 gold per drop. Can confirm that not using the Forge, tonics, or mess hall can lead to a more difficult experience. I didn't use any of them on my first run, except when I got to chapter 27. I even bought all these tonics for endgame, but I forgot to use them. No joke. I was pretty disappointed with myself. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 19 2016 01:47 TheYango wrote: Who was her mom? Midori's personal Str growth is pretty average (35%). Apoth's class growth of 20 is pretty great, but she'd still need one of the moms that gives a big +Str growth and there's less of those on Conquest than Rev. It was actually Hana, who has 20 str as a lvl 1 Swordmaster and Midori has 23 as a lvl 5 Mechanist. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 19 2016 02:25 TheYango wrote: Hana's a pretty good example of a "good for Midori, bad for Kaze" pairing, since Hana's pair up bonuses are pretty much impossible to arrange in a way that's good for Kaze (and likewise Kaze doesn't give bonuses that are good for Hana). Yeah, I actually did the pairup much later in the game where they were just solo roflstomping entire random battles by themselves as Master Ninja/Swordmaster. It really didn't matter. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The two stats most likely to come up short are Speed and Res, but both are fixable by getting access to Falcoknight (hi Subaki). | ||
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