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Fire Emblem - Page 171

Forum Index > General Games
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Laurens
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium4552 Posts
February 16 2023 07:26 GMT
#3401
Ahhh ok thanks
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-20 14:21:24
February 20 2023 14:21 GMT
#3402
I feel like this game even more than three houses, it’s just harder to see what’s going on. I often find myself struggling to see which units are mine and differentiating between them. You can’t see an enemy’s full movement range when they have sigurd ring because it doesn’t fit in the screen and you can’t really adjust the camera enough.

And then have weird edge cases like this where it’s just a puzzle why you can’t move.

[image loading]

I found it funny that on top of it already being hard to see the fog with that overlay, the map itself has black chessboard tiles on it.
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
February 20 2023 17:40 GMT
#3403
Yeah it's super annoying when an enemy has something like Meteor and it's on their second slot so you can never see its range + don't see they have it unless you hover over them and check all equipment. And then when people have staves you have layered purple red orange tiles that obscure things, then later on you have enemies/gimmicks that throw out more pink AOE and obfuscate things. There were more than a few times I went "I can't see!" or "where is its range??" and had to start manually counting things.

I've never had someone unable to move without being hit by Freeze though... strange.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
February 23 2023 15:20 GMT
#3404
Cleared my first run yesterday on hard. Gives a lot of leeway to experiment with skills, and hit a better balance than three houses. I'm still not a fan of the extended castle/base system in the new games, and it felt like I was sinking more time into it as I figured out the system. I'm hoping that being more efficient with crystal use rather than just messing around with shit will fix more of the problems, but finding out that you could get a ton of crystals from fishing was a real disappointment in the part of the game where I ran out of crystals experimenting with emblems.

I did enjoy the process for the most part. I ran out of various resources including gold at multiple points in the game, which almost never happens in older games. This is probably close to the the peak that modern skill/reclass focused FE game design will get you. I almost thought at one point that this might be one of my favorites in the series, but after the new game excitement wore off, it has a lot of problems that I never got over.

They tried, really, really hard to nerf mounted units, and failed. I'm mostly all right with the bad weapon combinations that mounted classes get. What really made the game worse though was removing Rescue and dropping mount range. Not being able to set up rescue chains to move around your lesser mobile units removed a great deal of positional play for pretty much no benefit other than make people think that they should just use more foot units.

I think it made having 6 movement even better than 5, since having more base movement was now the only way to get into better positions. They were clearly trying to push you towards having your support units chip away at everything at a slow pace, but I found it better to just be able to keep up with the 6 move carries that could ORKO things that were moving even further ahead with canto.

The game really fell off in the end when it became less about the maps and more about squeezing out as much damage as possible through skills. I guess I'll have to see how hard it is to hit benchmarks on lunatic but mechanics like the weapon triangle/break just didn't feel like they mattered at the end since there were so many ways to bypass it, and there were just too many maps where you moved your max move every turn and killed everything on the way to the boss (especially the (12!) paralogues). It was more interesting to just warp 10 units on turn 1 and byleth dance. I kind of found it hilarious that the fe6 paralogue was one of the more infamous maps, but it was no joke that you can't rescue drop characters over the rivers like you could in the original.

The music was good and I even liked the story after it picked up.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
February 23 2023 17:43 GMT
#3405
On February 24 2023 00:20 chocorush wrote:
Cleared my first run yesterday on hard. Gives a lot of leeway to experiment with skills, and hit a better balance than three houses. I'm still not a fan of the extended castle/base system in the new games, and it felt like I was sinking more time into it as I figured out the system. I'm hoping that being more efficient with crystal use rather than just messing around with shit will fix more of the problems, but finding out that you could get a ton of crystals from fishing was a real disappointment in the part of the game where I ran out of crystals experimenting with emblems.

I did enjoy the process for the most part. I ran out of various resources including gold at multiple points in the game, which almost never happens in older games. This is probably close to the the peak that modern skill/reclass focused FE game design will get you. I almost thought at one point that this might be one of my favorites in the series, but after the new game excitement wore off, it has a lot of problems that I never got over.

They tried, really, really hard to nerf mounted units, and failed. I'm mostly all right with the bad weapon combinations that mounted classes get. What really made the game worse though was removing Rescue and dropping mount range. Not being able to set up rescue chains to move around your lesser mobile units removed a great deal of positional play for pretty much no benefit other than make people think that they should just use more foot units.

I think it made having 6 movement even better than 5, since having more base movement was now the only way to get into better positions. They were clearly trying to push you towards having your support units chip away at everything at a slow pace, but I found it better to just be able to keep up with the 6 move carries that could ORKO things that were moving even further ahead with canto.

The game really fell off in the end when it became less about the maps and more about squeezing out as much damage as possible through skills. I guess I'll have to see how hard it is to hit benchmarks on lunatic but mechanics like the weapon triangle/break just didn't feel like they mattered at the end since there were so many ways to bypass it, and there were just too many maps where you moved your max move every turn and killed everything on the way to the boss (especially the (12!) paralogues). It was more interesting to just warp 10 units on turn 1 and byleth dance. I kind of found it hilarious that the fe6 paralogue was one of the more infamous maps, but it was no joke that you can't rescue drop characters over the rivers like you could in the original.

The music was good and I even liked the story after it picked up.

I'll tell you this about Maddening. Had a friend who played hard 1st run, had too tough a time and dropped difficulty to Normal. His 2nd run he did Maddening and won easy. Turns out just making avatar a stat padded monster with 200 avoid is pretty easy and it works. You just solo maddening mode. It's slow but it's guaranteed.
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
February 23 2023 18:23 GMT
#3406
The game should be significantly easier once you know where to dump your resources. Once you know that the game will keep throwing new units with higher bases at you, it looks like it's pretty obvious what works in the early/mid game and who to use your items on.
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
March 04 2023 21:40 GMT
#3407
Wrapped up my run on maddening. Mostly applied conventional fe theory and the game went smooth and quick.

In some ways it felt easier than the run on hard because i knew that you can skip every pseudo objective the game throws at you and i got some slicker warp skips. In general my warp skips were more effective because my carries were stronger so i was one turning annoying chapters instead of 2 turning them. For example, kagetsu was able to orko ch 25 boss and kill her twice in player phase after a dance and she killed herself in the beginning of enemy phase before the rest of my team could be wiped out.

The couple of rout maps were a bit rough with stuff happening in all directions but i don’t think you can realistically build more than 2 carries with reasonably fast play. Game gives you plenty of staves to work with so you can just go crazy.

I was able to confirm for myself that backup units are kind of a gimmick. Great knight kagetsu orko’d everything until endgame with a tomahawk and is more dominating in enemy phase than conquest xander. There was pretty much no situation where it would have been worth it to slow the pace down and let chain attacks do their thing at 80% chance to chip. 6 mov >> 5 plus chain attacks.

I used saphir and unbenched goldmary for my final team though for a little added value on the rout maps.

The most interesting decision is probably who to invest in pre ch10. I think realistically only one character can carry into the late game when you can pivot into eirike but you have to funnel most of your exp so they stay ahead of the curve on speed. I think chloe is the most reasonable option but lapis and diamant seem doable in theory. I tried diamant this run bit i think lapis might have a slightly longer shelf life because of her higher speed and attack bases after reclass.

Unless there’s some other major source of damage I’m missing, i don’t know if anyone other than kagetsu has high enough bases to carry without eirike or dlc. Maybe magic user + lyn but the game seems hard enough without having a tank that can kill. I’m sure the answer is to somehow skip even more stuff.

Speaking of skipping stuff. Speedtaker is so obviously a trap at this point. You just don’t kill that many things in player phase when you’re clearing maps in 4 or 5 turns on average, and most of the dangerous fast stuff is in the beginning of the map. To make things worse, the 2000 sp drought without value would be devastating when +3/4 speed would have helped a lot mid game and definitely helps endgame when you’re warp skipping.

Finally, donations matter a lot. It greatly boosts your ores for upgrades, and is the only way to get significant value out of your early money. Dlc giving you all that free gold and extra rings looks like it just completely breaks the game as far as the core resource allocation problem goes.

Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
March 05 2023 01:48 GMT
#3408
On March 05 2023 06:40 chocorush wrote:
Wrapped up my run on maddening. Mostly applied conventional fe theory and the game went smooth and quick.

In some ways it felt easier than the run on hard because i knew that you can skip every pseudo objective the game throws at you and i got some slicker warp skips. In general my warp skips were more effective because my carries were stronger so i was one turning annoying chapters instead of 2 turning them. For example, kagetsu was able to orko ch 25 boss and kill her twice in player phase after a dance and she killed herself in the beginning of enemy phase before the rest of my team could be wiped out.

The couple of rout maps were a bit rough with stuff happening in all directions but i don’t think you can realistically build more than 2 carries with reasonably fast play. Game gives you plenty of staves to work with so you can just go crazy.

I was able to confirm for myself that backup units are kind of a gimmick. Great knight kagetsu orko’d everything until endgame with a tomahawk and is more dominating in enemy phase than conquest xander. There was pretty much no situation where it would have been worth it to slow the pace down and let chain attacks do their thing at 80% chance to chip. 6 mov >> 5 plus chain attacks.

I used saphir and unbenched goldmary for my final team though for a little added value on the rout maps.

The most interesting decision is probably who to invest in pre ch10. I think realistically only one character can carry into the late game when you can pivot into eirike but you have to funnel most of your exp so they stay ahead of the curve on speed. I think chloe is the most reasonable option but lapis and diamant seem doable in theory. I tried diamant this run bit i think lapis might have a slightly longer shelf life because of her higher speed and attack bases after reclass.

Unless there’s some other major source of damage I’m missing, i don’t know if anyone other than kagetsu has high enough bases to carry without eirike or dlc. Maybe magic user + lyn but the game seems hard enough without having a tank that can kill. I’m sure the answer is to somehow skip even more stuff.

Speaking of skipping stuff. Speedtaker is so obviously a trap at this point. You just don’t kill that many things in player phase when you’re clearing maps in 4 or 5 turns on average, and most of the dangerous fast stuff is in the beginning of the map. To make things worse, the 2000 sp drought without value would be devastating when +3/4 speed would have helped a lot mid game and definitely helps endgame when you’re warp skipping.

Finally, donations matter a lot. It greatly boosts your ores for upgrades, and is the only way to get significant value out of your early money. Dlc giving you all that free gold and extra rings looks like it just completely breaks the game as far as the core resource allocation problem goes.


Assuming you play without DLC how would you rank all the emblems and why
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-03-05 22:58:00
March 05 2023 03:13 GMT
#3409
The best emblems are pretty clear straightforward.

Micaiah: Early game you can set up easy triple heals with the mend staff for stupid amounts of experience (sp by extension). I think this might be more per turn than mercurious can get you. Late game aoe staves with double range is easily the most broken thing in this game. Warp obviously but aoe silence and freeze has some really cool uses as well.

Lyn: There are a lot of slow units that now reliably double. I put it on great knight kagetsu, but almost everyone would love to have the +5 speed she provides and speedtaker. The shadow clones also provides another interesting solution to enemy phasing through chain attacks without investing in dual guard, and astral storm is useful for triggering boss movement early so you can push the pace before enemies group up. It’s pretty crazy how many problems this one emblem can solve.

Byleth: 4 person dance. Gives some great weapons too but it didn’t affect my last run because i tried it on my sage for thyrsus. Thyrsus made much less of an impact though. I don’t think the bonuses actually matter for the most part but i swapped him on a backup unit to hit some benchmarks on warp skips. My theory right now is having him on a flyer for free 6 move and rune might be the most useful.

Corrin: aoe freeze and free hex. I think 2000 sp is a little too expensive for most characters to reasonably get so this helps a lot. I know people like the fog terrain but im not seeing how burning a turn on dragon vein with thieves would play into my play style compared to nuking from range, applying hex and freeze with that same turn.

Eirike: huge boost to physical damage around the point of the game where the defense spikes faster than most characters strength gains. There are a few characters like chloe that can keep up in speed with brave weapons so this gives you a second source of orko damage which you want to burn through boss lifebars. I think kagetsu is the only one who can easily stay ahead of the curve without eirike.

Sigurd has to be mentioned because 12 mov dance is really easy to find good uses for. There are some other things like overdrive with great lances for huge damage as well.

The other emblems i probably dont remember everything they do tbh. The game is so centralized around your carries that while they add extra utility, don’t really end up doing much comparatively. I do use them when the tactical situation allows (celica letting you chip kill two units for example) but they just feel situational, mostly valuable so you get full sp.

Roy might be the most interesting of the tactical ones. I ran 3 fliers mid game, and the game doesn’t really punish you for it, except for a couple bosses with astral storm. Also made for some amusing warp skips where i had to finish the boss in enemy phase with seadall tanking a hit from some random.

Edit: Took a look at the tables, and Ike and Roy give a huge amount of +str, which can be good on Kagetsu to free up Lyn for someone else. Maybe don't need speedtaker if solve enemy sword masters/wolves in some other way, but kagetsu is one of the few units where it's worth investing purely in offense over the utility skills.
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-03-27 21:27:59
March 27 2023 21:26 GMT
#3410
So the patch adding the ancient well changes surprisingly little. Short of the small chance of getting some staves early, it turns out that there aren't really particularly good uses of SP other than Canter, speed +3 and reposition. It's almost purely a qol change that gives you more options for casual play.

I would also adjust my emblem rankings from last time a little.

The truly transformational emblems are Micaiah, Byleth, and Lucina. Then Sigurd for movement and Celica as an honorable mention for early game movement.

Then you have the stat sticks, Eirike, Lyn, Ike, Roy, in that order I think. Lyn and Ike are almost equal because you can make slow strong characters fast and fast weak characters strong, but Lyn has added utility for pulling bosses and shadows.

Movement is the best stat, and honestly, you can probably run the whole game with just flyers.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
March 27 2023 22:30 GMT
#3411
On March 28 2023 06:26 chocorush wrote:
So the patch adding the ancient well changes surprisingly little. Short of the small chance of getting some staves early, it turns out that there aren't really particularly good uses of SP other than Canter, speed +3 and reposition. It's almost purely a qol change that gives you more options for casual play.

I would also adjust my emblem rankings from last time a little.

The truly transformational emblems are Micaiah, Byleth, and Lucina. Then Sigurd for movement and Celica as an honorable mention for early game movement.

Then you have the stat sticks, Eirike, Lyn, Ike, Roy, in that order I think. Lyn and Ike are almost equal because you can make slow strong characters fast and fast weak characters strong, but Lyn has added utility for pulling bosses and shadows.

Movement is the best stat, and honestly, you can probably run the whole game with just flyers.

We need to do a draft run
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
March 28 2023 21:59 GMT
#3412
Kind of wonder what a good ruleset for drafting would be. All the emblems and reclassing would probably make them feel really samey.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
March 29 2023 01:05 GMT
#3413
On March 29 2023 06:59 chocorush wrote:
Kind of wonder what a good ruleset for drafting would be. All the emblems and reclassing would probably make them feel really samey.

Could draft emblems as well. Idk about reclassing (maybe ban it)?
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
March 29 2023 21:36 GMT
#3414
With an emblem draft, you might actually have to play out all those late game maps lol. Sounds kind of painful.

Limiting reclass to just between the base promotion options might be reasonable. That would make units like kagetsu still be desirable. Kind of screws over the lords and alear though with only 1 choice, but those classes still have some play in them.

That being said, it would also depend on how fun it would be for the people playing. Swapping emblems and reclassing are pretty major mechanics, and the game may very well end up being no fun unless playing on Hard or lower.
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