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On November 09 2013 18:39 Enox wrote:
all the ppl that complain about time travel, didnt really get it. we wont go back in time! the old draenor will come to the present. we wont go back and nothing that happend in the past will change, lore wise. everything will happen in the present
That's even worse, to be honest. It's unnecessarily convoluted and seems a little pointless. The story won't change (too bad, they could actually fix some of the horrible mistakes they've made) and it's only a threat of an alternate universe, it seems lame to me.
I don't know, it just seems very lame and yet another blow to the great story of the previous games (read: before WoW).
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I agree, this alternate universe kind of story is beyond silly. It is the hallmark of lazy writing. In terms of WoW though, I don't care too much. The story progression is inseperable from the business model (content patches, expansions) and this is what one should expect at this point to be honest.
I almost exclusively raid and raiding in MoP has been excellent. I look forward to trying to out the new model for it.
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On November 10 2013 00:26 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 18:39 Enox wrote:
all the ppl that complain about time travel, didnt really get it. we wont go back in time! the old draenor will come to the present. we wont go back and nothing that happend in the past will change, lore wise. everything will happen in the present That's even worse, to be honest. It's unnecessarily convoluted and seems a little pointless. The story won't change (too bad, they could actually fix some of the horrible mistakes they've made) and it's only a threat of an alternate universe, it seems lame to me. I don't know, it just seems very lame and yet another blow to the great story of the previous games (read: before WoW).
Errr, without the Orcs drinking the blood, they don't have demon allies and the demonic horde doesn't have a way into Azeroth. That means all of WC2 and WC3 never happens, the NEs hide in their little corner of the earth, the Undead don't exist, the Blood Elves don't exist, etc. In other words, the entire history of Azeroth is completely changed.
So no, time travel wouldn't work.
However, opening up portals to alternate dimensions where the orcs resisted the demon influence and Draenor still exists can work, but is a pretty cheap cop-out for the story.
Not that I really care, I'm just hyped by the idea of exploring more of the backstory. I stopped in Cata because I got bored with the game, and MoP didn't entice me at all. But this sounds like it'll tie back into the story of WC2 which was pretty awesome, and explore lots of stuff about that time.
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Italy12246 Posts
Then again, if Rhonin, Krasus and Broxigar don't travel back in time the Burning Legion just wins during the War of the Ancients, and then the future is forever changed. Plus if the Horde doesn't drink the demon's blood, then they never invade Azeroth, so everything that happens in Warcraft changes and Garrosh doesn't need to go back in the past in the first place anyway....
A (slightly) better way to look at it is that Azeroth stays the same, but as soon as Garrosh (somehow) goes back it's Draenor that becomes "alternate", so effectively there are two Draenors that exist.
I mean it still doesn't make any fucking sense, but nothing about time travel stories does anyway. At the end of the day, Wow is meant to be a relaxed game with a nice little bit of lore around it imo. If i wanted an indepth story, i'd consider playing Planescape Torment again, not WoW. Let's just enjoy the fact that we get a new continent to explore 
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To be honest it's more like Garrosh travels back in time to an alternate universe to bring back lots of orcs to our time and universe. So, for the Azeroth in Draenor's time lots is going to change but not for ours.
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On November 10 2013 01:07 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 00:26 Spaylz wrote:On November 09 2013 18:39 Enox wrote:
all the ppl that complain about time travel, didnt really get it. we wont go back in time! the old draenor will come to the present. we wont go back and nothing that happend in the past will change, lore wise. everything will happen in the present That's even worse, to be honest. It's unnecessarily convoluted and seems a little pointless. The story won't change (too bad, they could actually fix some of the horrible mistakes they've made) and it's only a threat of an alternate universe, it seems lame to me. I don't know, it just seems very lame and yet another blow to the great story of the previous games (read: before WoW). Errr, without the Orcs drinking the blood, they don't have demon allies and the demonic horde doesn't have a way into Azeroth. That means all of WC2 and WC3 never happens, the NEs hide in their little corner of the earth, the Undead don't exist, the Blood Elves don't exist, etc. In other words, the entire history of Azeroth is completely changed. So no, time travel wouldn't work. However, opening up portals to alternate dimensions where the orcs resisted the demon influence and Draenor still exists can work, but is a pretty cheap cop-out for the story. Not that I really care, I'm just hyped by the idea of exploring more of the backstory. I stopped in Cata because I got bored with the game, and MoP didn't entice me at all. But this sounds like it'll tie back into the story of WC2 which was pretty awesome, and explore lots of stuff about that time.
That's not how I understand it. Blizzard has said that "the past will be fine" (from everything I've looked up anyway), and that this is indeed not the direct past of the Draenor we know, but some kind of alternate version, as Garrosh's goal is to prevent the Orcs from ever drinking Mannoroth's blood only so that they don't fall under the demons' control, but rather under his.
His intent is not to modify the past, it is to use an alternate version to gather a super army and come back to Azeroth to collect his revenge on his "actual" timeline.
Don't get me wrong, even though I don't play WoW at all, I still keep up with the lore and I love the idea of somehow going back to a time where the story was much cooler. But the way that they are going about it seems too.. mitigated. It is time travel, but it isn't, as you can't actually change the future and the expansion doesn't seem to be centered around that: none of the changes that occur in that particular past Draenor will affect the Outland of today as we know it, nor will it affect our Azeroth. Not in a time-traveling way anyway. The direct threat that is explained is that the armies of the Iron Horde will be taken through the Dark Portal to invade Azeroth, which is very confusing, seeing as Garrosh could simply remold the future by doing different things, so the threat should be that our future is in danger...
I don't know, it's very confusing. It is presented as time travel, and yet the threat is the Iron Horde invading Azeroth through the Dark Portal, not the changing future. There aren't many explanations on it, so maybe we'll see, but I'm just a little puzzled.
edit : I just realized that I misread your post and pretty much argued the same thing as you. Yeah, it is a cop-out. I would have actually preferred an actual time-travel if they really wanted to go that way.
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On November 09 2013 09:11 Teoita wrote:
Pretty sure the Emerald Dream thing is gone in WoW lore. I think it was solved in some book.
It's true. It is over in the novel "Stormrage" written by Richard A. Knaak.
I'm also super exicited about this new expansion more than I was for MoP/Cata :D
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So what I'm seeing is that they're removing leveling (at least for some number of your toons), redoing a bunch of zones from Outland and adding a few more, and giving people player houses (err...strongholds) because people have been begging for that for 8 years or however long it's been out at this point.
I just don't see the point in coming back.
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On November 10 2013 02:51 deth2munkies wrote:
So what I'm seeing is that they're removing leveling (at least for some number of your toons), redoing a bunch of zones from Outland and adding a few more, and giving people player houses (err...strongholds) because people have been begging for that for 8 years or however long it's been out at this point.
I just don't see the point in coming back.
You can only boost one character per account to level 90, not 100. I don't see how this negative for anyone. There is entirely new zones like Frostfire Ridge and Shadowmoon valley is completely different as well since the planet hasn't been torn apart yet. Not only they gave us player housing but simcity by the looks of it, need more details on this. There's even more details yet to be revealed but so far it looks continuing what MoP is doing, which is good mainly good things. Depends really what you're looking from the game, raiding is better than ever, pvp is being "improved" but balance has been around places a bit during seasons. Timeless Isle seems to be something we'll see in WoD as well as that seems much more enjoyable than bunch of dailies as solo progression end game. There's also more solo content than ever before and I'd guess we'll see some more in WoD.
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Anyone know when they'll release it? Have they announced anything?
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so many stats gone lmao hit dodge expertise..and also reforging? instead they just put in a bunch of diablo 3 stats on gear and simplified it down so much
what the hell does a tank need now? just hp and armor?
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On November 10 2013 05:52 FinestHour wrote:
so many stats gone lmao hit dodge expertise..and also reforging? instead they just put in a bunch of diablo 3 stats on gear and simplified it down so much
what the hell does a tank need now? just hp and armor?
Those who missed it:
Itemization
Getting new items should be exciting. Right now it feels like you have to do a lot of work when you get a new item.
Hit and Expertise don't feel like a bonus, so they are now gone!
Dodge and Parry, gone!
Reforging, gone!
Enchanting is still around, but fewer items can be enchanted. There will be more enchant choices for those items.
The number of items with gem sockets will be gone. Only one gem slot per item. Gems are more powerful. Sockets are a bonus that don't count towards item level budget. No more socket bonuses or meta gems.
The stats on armor will now change based on your spec. Plate drops and it will have whatever stats your class needs, no more Intellect plate! No more PvP Priest Healing set and PvP Priest DPS set, just a Priest set.
Jewelery, cloak, trinkets, and weapons will be more role focused and might keep stats.
Armor will become a good tanking stat again, Spirit will be good for healers.
Tertiary stats are bonus stats that can appear on gear that don't count towards the item level budget. Lifesteal, avoidance,
sturdiness, movement speed (stacks with other bonuses), cleave, and more.
Item squish is in! All of the big jumps from old expansions and raid tiers will be flattened.
Your relative power won't change, just the numbers. The speed at which you kill things won't change. You can still solo old content.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/ Updated when something new.
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But the whole point of good hit items is that you free up other item slots for crit or other good stuffs. Making each item an upgrade and getting rid of the juggling and variation sounds stupid.
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I really like the item squish, although a lot of people are complaining about it.
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Italy12246 Posts
I love the item squish but the new stats are really confusing :O
Also yeah i'll miss hit.
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On November 10 2013 06:13 Teoita wrote:
I love the item squish but the new stats are really confusing :O
Also yeah i'll miss hit.
If I was still playing, I wouldn't. Those epic moments when right after xpac launch you race to lvl cap, start raiding and people are struggling to reach the hit caps to dps the bosses >_>
The more I read the more I'm feeling like playing WoW again..this is disturbing.
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On November 10 2013 06:13 Teoita wrote:
I love the item squish but the new stats are really confusing :O
Also yeah i'll miss hit.
kind of ironic isn't it? 
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Even though I don't really dig the setting, many of the new features gets me excited again. I quit at the start of cata and MoP wasn't able to convince me either, but this sounds solid so far.
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Talk about confliction. My knee jerk reaction hates everything about the story and even the setting (TBC was my favorite expansion) but after reading more of the changes, I think this expansion might be saved due to the changes under the hood. I've been waiting for the item squish thing for a long time. I support the idea of getting rid of things like hit and expertise, but I'm wary of how things like stacking speed boosts will work out in the long run.
I'm also curious about how looting will work. Now that stats are dependent on your spec, will this make dungeons even more of a mad gear grab than it was before?
Honestly though I wish they'd just get rid of Garrosh. He was always a boring cardboard cutout of a character, and now we get another expansion centered around him? I understand they've already killed off all the interesting lore characters but is this seriously all we're left with?
But still, as some one who's faith was shaken with Cata and broken with MoP, I'm now cautiously optimistic.
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This actually sounds like an expansion I'll try when it comes out! I've been off and on poking around, I stopped playing "regularly" in late Wrath (that was the third expansion right?? the one after burning crusade) and haven't been interested really ever since.
The features of this expansion sound cool, and finally re-texturing character models, the tauren look soo poorly done haha 
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EPT
