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On October 12 2012 01:56 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 01:52 thesideshow wrote:
I don't recall much of the original xcom (was a clueless kid when I played it, though i did play it alot), but I don't think RNG is a bad mechanic.
Once you accept that you will inevitably take losses, tailoring your tactics around that is just part of the challenge of the game.
I do think that the randomness of the classing does make it much more frustrating though. At least they kinda try to make up for it with rewards for missions. Alot of times when chosing mssion at least one of the rewards will be a soldier of a specific class you might need / could use. Not to mention he'll already be at least sort of seasoned.
And yet i often feel myself forced to select missions based on Panic rather then reward.
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i feel like losing soldiers here is a much bigger deal than the original. the game feels snowbally. heck if you lose two guys in a mission it feels impossible to finish.
it also feels like there's a lot less to do in this game for some reason. i'm skipping weeks just trying to get something going.
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On October 11 2012 23:44 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 21:04 Tobberoth wrote:
No worries, for those who feel it's dumbed down, the original is still there. For those of us who would call it "streamlined", we can enjoy the new game. Everyone is happy :O Sorry, but people who have more refined taste aren't "happy" that a new XCOM came out and it's designed for console players. We would be "happy" if the game came out and it actually lived up to the standard set by its predecessor. I don't get the mentality that people with no standards are the ones who deserve to be catered to.
My tastes are beyond refined and can detect the most subtle concession any console/PC game. Three decades of enjoying games on all platforms created this delicate palate, which understands that the control impute is irrelevant in a turn based game controlled on a grid. Like the best and oldest strategy games, chess, the commands issued X-com could be sent by mail and it would have little impact over the outcome each turn(though it would take so long, no one would enjoy it). I could play the original X-com with a fight-stick or NES controller and it would have no effect on the outcome of the game. The same goes for the new X-com.
I have sunk nearly 15 hours into the game and it has everything I remember enjoying from when I played this game at 14 years old. It boils the game down to the pure joy of hard decisions and awesome combat. Removing things like ammo management may anger some truly hardcore players, but I have no interest in mirco managing my weapons locker. It about as interesting as ordering food for the mess hall, which is to say, its not.
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On October 12 2012 02:02 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 01:56 s3rp wrote:On October 12 2012 01:52 thesideshow wrote:
I don't recall much of the original xcom (was a clueless kid when I played it, though i did play it alot), but I don't think RNG is a bad mechanic.
Once you accept that you will inevitably take losses, tailoring your tactics around that is just part of the challenge of the game.
I do think that the randomness of the classing does make it much more frustrating though. At least they kinda try to make up for it with rewards for missions. Alot of times when chosing mssion at least one of the rewards will be a soldier of a specific class you might need / could use. Not to mention he'll already be at least sort of seasoned. And yet i often feel myself forced to select missions based on Panic rather then reward.
Sounds like risk VS reward to me. I am in the point of the game where my troops can't heal up fully between missions. A new, elite trooper sounds seems almost better than lowered panic levels when you need a deep bench.
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On October 12 2012 02:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 02:02 Gorsameth wrote:On October 12 2012 01:56 s3rp wrote:On October 12 2012 01:52 thesideshow wrote:
I don't recall much of the original xcom (was a clueless kid when I played it, though i did play it alot), but I don't think RNG is a bad mechanic.
Once you accept that you will inevitably take losses, tailoring your tactics around that is just part of the challenge of the game.
I do think that the randomness of the classing does make it much more frustrating though. At least they kinda try to make up for it with rewards for missions. Alot of times when chosing mssion at least one of the rewards will be a soldier of a specific class you might need / could use. Not to mention he'll already be at least sort of seasoned. And yet i often feel myself forced to select missions based on Panic rather then reward. Sounds like risk VS reward to me. I am in the point of the game where my troops can't heal up fully between missions. A new, elite trooper sounds seems almost better than lowered panic levels when you need a deep bench.
Yes, that was my logic as well but then I lost 6 nations already :D
Actually the game on strategic level is much more punishing then old X-Com. You lose support way too easy here, I don't really like it.
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On October 12 2012 02:06 kainzero wrote:
it also feels like there's a lot less to do in this game for some reason. i'm skipping weeks just trying to get something going.
yeah I'm feeling that too. Can't make stuff cos I got no money and the missions are kinda...I don't know if boring is the word but once you get laser rifles and decent men then anything below a muton becomes a breeze. I'm in ~July on my classic and some of my guys can 100% an enemy at range behind full cover.
Mutons are pussy too. They always seem to clump up and one good grenade or bazooka and they're just standing there waiting to die.
I'm gonna restart again even though I'm doing pretty well (although 6 countries out really limits anything outside of missions). As far as my experience can tell, workshops and labs seem kinda...pointless? I've had one workshop all this time and no labs and I'm doing pretty well, researched a load of stuff - most recently the plasma cannons.
eeeh I dunno. Wish there was more to do. Lasers and scopes GG
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On October 11 2012 23:47 Medrea wrote:
RNG does take away from the experience some.
If there is a shot one of my squads can take and I myself can make that shot no problem in real life, it shouldnt miss.
Well to be fair randomness was just as bad if not worse in the original XCOM. I don't think many people know that in the original a 0% to 200% damage modification roll was made for every shot that did connect, which sometimes caused a lot of frustration. Some puny snakeman not dying from 3 heavy plasma hits while your flying-suit armored favourite soldier dies in one hit from a fucking plasma pistol? That shouldn't be even possible judging by the damage numbers shown in the ufopaedia.
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On October 12 2012 02:54 Random() wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 23:47 Medrea wrote:
RNG does take away from the experience some.
If there is a shot one of my squads can take and I myself can make that shot no problem in real life, it shouldnt miss. Well to be fair randomness was just as bad if not worse in the original XCOM. I don't think many people know that in the original a 0% to 200% damage modification roll was made for every shot that did connect
LOL i had no idea xD
talk about rng rofl.
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Yep, nothing worse than having your flying armor guy get hit once in the front armor that should be the thickest and should easily take plasma hits to die from a single reaction shot.
Then another turn one of your guys tanks 5 shots in a row without even taking damage.
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5 more hours until it unlocks here... ugh I guess I'll be quite tired at work tomorrow
also steam just started downloading something again. even though preloading had finished already, anyone know what's up with that?
edit: apparently it's a 2gb patch, but there aren't any patch notes available yet
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Pretty large patch yes, turned the stream off to DL.
Can't find official notes yet.
My sniper, Lee Jaedong Died... In other news it's almost October in game!
Edit: Plasma Tech unlocked :D
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On October 12 2012 02:54 ToT)OjKa( wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 02:06 kainzero wrote:
it also feels like there's a lot less to do in this game for some reason. i'm skipping weeks just trying to get something going. yeah I'm feeling that too. Can't make stuff cos I got no money and the missions are kinda...I don't know if boring is the word but once you get laser rifles and decent men then anything below a muton becomes a breeze. I'm in ~July on my classic and some of my guys can 100% an enemy at range behind full cover.
yeah it just feels like i'm waiting a lot for abduction missions. ufos don't seem to visit that often. and then sometimes it's like a large ufo that you can't down with your two interceptors so when you fail that you just twiddle your thumbs some more.
the old one felt like there were a lot more ufos, and you didn't even have to down them to go invade them (which happened a lot, actually, because you wanted the power source/navigation/etc. intact).
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On October 12 2012 03:28 Pufftrees wrote:
Pretty large patch yes, turned the stream off to DL.
Can't find official notes yet.
My sniper, Lee Jaedong Died... In other news it's almost October in game!
Edit: Plasma Tech unlocked :D
I have a sniper named after jaedong too!
he's still alive though 
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http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?154266-XCOM-Enemy-Unknown-patch-notes-for-10-11-12
Patch notes:
- Various visibility/hiding optimizations
- Multiplayer text chat support (press J to activate)
- Mouse button 4/5 will switch soldiers in the Barracks
- ESC hides the movement grid, if you do not want to commit to a move while it is activated
- Squad Sight ability optimization
- Fixed issue when equipping two grenades with Deep Pockets.
- Fixed Rapid Fire sometimes consuming too much ammo.
- SHIVs that are damaged will no longer become unusable.
- Fixed some hangs/soft crashes in tactical combat.
- Replaced software cursor with the operating system cursor to reduce lag and framerate dependence.
- Fixed rendering bug which causes some soldier’s hair to appear as if it is rendering on top of environment fog.
- 1080p movies are now used at all times on the PC.
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On October 12 2012 02:54 Random() wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 23:47 Medrea wrote:
RNG does take away from the experience some.
If there is a shot one of my squads can take and I myself can make that shot no problem in real life, it shouldnt miss. Well to be fair randomness was just as bad if not worse in the original XCOM. I don't think many people know that in the original a 0% to 200% damage modification roll was made for every shot that did connect, which sometimes caused a lot of frustration. Some puny snakeman not dying from 3 heavy plasma hits while your flying-suit armored favourite soldier dies in one hit from a fucking plasma pistol? That shouldn't be even possible judging by the damage numbers shown in the ufopaedia.
Yeah, at least we have fixed values in this game so you can calculate the negatives when you pull off a risky move.
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My OCD is preventing me from getting far in this game. I keep restarting Classic Ironman and eventually lose a full squad and rage quit and start over lol. After numerous restarts I finally recreated on Normal Ironman to ease it up a bit. I concur with a lot of the statements that losing soldiers this time around is absolutely crushing in terms of recovery. The soldiers mean so much more now, at cost and experience, then they did before. I wish the kill animations were removed tho, just for personal reasons. I mean, I like when my guys go into the animation because then I know I killed the alien. But last night playing I had my sniper on the roof of a fairly large building, spotting two aliens. Obviously had better cover and a huge height advantage and after 3 turns of trading fire one of the sectoids went into the kill animation before his shot and I knew my sniper was done. RAGE QUIT.
lol sob. Anyway its great and I'm having a blast. For those very few people who are not happy with the game or think its not as good as the original/not fun then check out Xenonauts for $20. I'll probably get that to but am definately glad I purchased this new version on day 1.
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On October 12 2012 04:16 ExPresident wrote:
My OCD is preventing me from getting far in this game. I keep restarting Classic Ironman and eventually lose a full squad and rage quit and start over lol. After numerous restarts I finally recreated on Normal Ironman to ease it up a bit. I concur with a lot of the statements that losing soldiers this time around is absolutely crushing in terms of recovery. The soldiers mean so much more now, at cost and experience, then they did before. I wish the kill animations were removed tho, just for personal reasons. I mean, I like when my guys go into the animation because then I know I killed the alien. But last night playing I had my sniper on the roof of a fairly large building, spotting two aliens. Obviously had better cover and a huge height advantage and after 3 turns of trading fire one of the sectoids went into the kill animation before his shot and I knew my sniper was done. RAGE QUIT.
lol sob. Anyway its great and I'm having a blast. For those very few people who are not happy with the game or think its not as good as the original/not fun then check out Xenonauts for $20. I'll probably get that to but am definately glad I purchased this new version on day 1.
Have you tried turning off Action Shots or whatever there called in the options. it might disable the kill animations.
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Because of the RNG factor, I feel like the only way to play is Ironman, on whatever your chosen difficulty. I know I'd feel the need to save reload till I hit all of my <50% shots and didn't lose a single guy, but when you force yourself to play without reload I think the game opens up a lot. You make choices and the choices have consequences. You can't always predict the consequences, but you can choose to balance the risk vs the reward.
My most recent fuuuu moment was trying to capture an outsider, I closed with 3 guys, pistoled him down to 2 life when I had 100% shot at killing him, then had an 80% chance to stun - that I immediately failed. Of course now there are 3 guys in melee with an outsider, but thankfully he didn't crit so I still made it out of the mission with no casualties - but I also didn't capture him. But that's just the way it goes, like many have said, RNG makes for those amazing saves by a sniper halfway across the map nailing a 15% shot for a crit on the guy flanking your assault with 1 life left.
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When I busted into the last room with 2 outsiders to capture, they spawned and then proceeded to get killed as my two assault guys were the ones that breached it and both had that close-reaction fire skill.
Didn't want them anyway fuck 'em
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I hope the game does have some mod support. There's plenty I'd like to see done with it. I agree with people in that it's basically XCOM, trimmed down, possibly excessively so. The linear nature of the mission objectives destroys quite a bit of the mystique.
UFO encounters are very rare, and even more difficult to encounter due to the nature of their satellite coverage. The original's Radar system was a bit more robust, but even then, it was a whole mini-game that's effectively been marginalized.
Abduction sites are problematic, and there's oft-times nothing you can do to keep panic down. You can ace everything that comes your way and still have multiple countries freaking out. Needs to have more random events, trades and the ilk pop up rather than exceedingly randomly.
Crafting is too simple, research is likewise very simple, especially given the 'research credits' some things give you, reducing time spent in half. There simply aren't very many topic and I was basically fully researched after only 4 months, if that. The biggest holdout was lack of alloy/elerium from very few crashes/ufo encounters.
No Base assaults/defenses is unfortunate. Was fun finding and destroying the various bases. Being restricted to just the one is booring.
I like the class system, though being unable to pick your class is a little painful, regardless, there should be more weapon diversity and choices. Granted, Xcom 1 didn't have the best diversity itself. Once you got heavy plasma, you almost never used anything else but small and blaster bombs. Xcom 3 Apocalypse was a little bit better with the machine guns, assault rifles, sniper rifles and then things like dimensional guns and toxi-guns. But that went a little pear shaped too once you got Toxin B->C. There should be some diversity between various guns, at least for the Heavy. I'd like to see a return of the old HE Cannons, being restricted to just a few rockets and potentially grenades really lowers my collateral damage... and I love to cause collateral damage!
That and Frak Cryssalids!
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EPT
