EPTin the 2011 playoffs we saw Price > Luongo.
Vancouver has a better team than Montreal.
both took Boston to 7 games.
Luongo got lit up... .bad.
NHL 2011-2012 Season - Page 8
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17682 Posts
in the 2011 playoffs we saw Price > Luongo. Vancouver has a better team than Montreal. both took Boston to 7 games. Luongo got lit up... .bad. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 15 2011 06:30 JimmyJRaynor wrote: just 1 example in the 2011 playoffs we saw Price > Luongo. Vancouver has a better team than Montreal. both took Boston to 7 games. Luongo got lit up... .bad. Again I'd point to how the teams were playing the games, and that there is a rather massive difference between the First round and the Finals. Next of all, Boston won the Finals with Specialty teams; Bostons PP was ice cold for the first three rounds of the playoffs, and was allowed to heat it up against the Nucks because they had Kesler/Raymond/Burrows/Lappiere running around taking stupid penalties. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17682 Posts
On October 15 2011 06:38 iCanada wrote: Again I'd point to how the teams were playing the games, and that there is a rather massive difference between the First round and the Finals. Next of all, Boston won the Finals with Specialty teams; Bostons PP was ice cold for the first three rounds of the playoffs, and was allowed to heat it up against the Nucks because they had Kesler/Raymond/Burrows/Lappiere running around taking stupid penalties. the Canadiens came a lot closer to beating the Bruins than the Canucks did because Price > Luongo. The Vancouver team was better than the Canadiens.... not even close. Don't give me this crap about injuries because Boston had its best scorer .. Nathan Horton the entire Montreal series... he was gone at the start of game 3 of the Van/Boston series because of Rome's illegal horrific cheap shot. Luongo is very inconsistent and for an older goalie still suffers from confidence issues. How many times was Luongo replaced during the playoffs ? Luongo is a lot older and on the downside of his career. Price > Luongo ... no one in their right mind would trade Price for Luongo ... even if u take away Luongo's stupid contract. | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 15 2011 10:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the Canadiens came a lot closer to beating the Bruins than the Canucks did because Price > Luongo. The Vancouver team was better than the Canadiens.... not even close. Don't give me this crap about injuries because Boston had its best scorer .. Nathan Horton the entire Montreal series... he was gone at the start of game 3 of the Van/Boston series because of Rome's illegal horrific cheap shot. Luongo is very inconsistent and for an older goalie still suffers from confidence issues. How many times was Luongo replaced during the playoffs ? Luongo is a lot older and on the downside of his career. Price > Luongo ... no one in their right mind would trade Price for Luongo ... even if u take away Luongo's stupid contract. Have you even watched the series? The Bruins were a complete joke against canadiens, I was laughing so hard that this team can't even beat a team playing as bad as the bruins did in the opening round. Then come Bruins vs Canucks where Boston played great hockey compared to their first round against montreal. Goaltending has NOTHING to do with it. Price was quite bad in the first round. I agree that Luongo had mediocre playoffs but he was way better than Price anyway. Better season: Luongo. Better playoffs: Luongo. Price fans are priceless. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17682 Posts
The test of any goaltender occurs in the playoffs. HoF goalies make their reputations in the play offs not in the regular season. Canadiens v. Bruins Total Score 17-17 Bruins win in over time of game 7 in an extremely close series. Bruins had home ice advantage for the series. Canucks v. Bruins. Total Score 23-8 Bruins win going away and in the final 2 games Luongo did not make the big save. Canucks has home ice for the series. The Canucks have a better team than the Canadiens. The big difference was in net. Luongo was a somewhat above average goalie in his best years. Luongo's flaw is that he is a flopper. Luongo was a train wreck in the 2011 play-offs and the Canucks would've won the Stanley Cup with better goaltending. Luongo will have a bad year this year and play poorly in the playoffs if he is played at all. All Price will have to do is be average to be better than Luongo. Luongo's peak as a goalie has come and gone. His decline started 2 years ago and will continue in 2011-12. Luongo is a flopper who goes down on the first shot whose confidence is fragile at best. I'll revisit this thread to remind you how garbage Luongo is throughout the year just like it did when i predicted he'd meltdown in the Stanley Cup finals. | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
Edit: Just take the Krejci, Horton, Lucic line (their first line), it's an obvious example of how the Bruins evolved as the playoffs advanced. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17682 Posts
On October 15 2011 12:45 Essbee wrote: No dude that's not the point of my post at all. Don't look at the stats, look at the games themselves, the Bruins were laughable in the first round. Edit: Just take the Krejci, Horton, Lucic line (their first line), it's an obvious example of how the Bruins evolved as the playoffs advanced. yes.. the games themselves... Luongo is a flopper who goes down on the first shot. Horton missed the finals against Luongo....lolz... get ur facts straight. I've made my prediction about what Luongo will do this yaer. and you've said nothing. here u want to see Luongo in action? hows that? how about his confidence meltdowns against Chicago that are a yearly ritual? | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 15 2011 12:45 Essbee wrote: No dude that's not the point of my post at all. Don't look at the stats, look at the games themselves, the Bruins were laughable in the first round. Edit: Just take the Krejci, Horton, Lucic line (their first line), it's an obvious example of how the Bruins evolved as the playoffs advanced. Yeah, pretty much this. The other real reason the Nucks lost is they couldn't put the puck in the net... They only scored 8 goals in seven games... that isn't a number that you can look at and say "yeah, those 8 goals should have let us win four of seven games!" in any spree of seven consecutive contests. Not to mention, Luongo single handedly won the Canucks game 1, 2, and 5... if you score three or less and win chances are your goaltender put on a clinic that game. The fact that the guy put on two shutout performances in the final is remarkable. If you take away those games, in the remaining four the canucks averaged 0.75 goals a game; in order for the Canucks to win Luongo would have had to kept the Bruins off the board for a 4 period game, which quite frankly is ridiculous. Hockey is also very much a game of momentum, and in the games they lost the Canucks failed to amount to much of anything because they couldn't get get answer goals. To put it simply, it is much easier mentally to play in a tied game than one in which you are trailing, and much easier to play a game in which you are leading than tied. I'd be much more likely to blame the super star Sedins and Ryan Kesler for the Canucks loss than Luongo. You could make a case for game 6 that it was luongos fault for the loss, but still the Canucks only scored 2. League average GPG is 2.75, you need to score more than two to win. Not to mention, a team shouldn't fail their defensive assignments twice in thirty seconds, and the third goal he let in was when the Bruins were on the PP with traffic in front. Every goaltender lets those guys in every couple of games. I'm an Oilers fan, trust me when I say Luongo is a real good goaltender. There must be something in the water in Vancouver, because hot damn that guy is underappreciated. Ah well, I guess goaltenders are easy scapegoats. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17682 Posts
reductio ad absurdum Luongo's play off performances are a train wreck. propose the trade of Price for Luongo to any one who knows anything about NHL goaltending. you'll get laughed at. Too often... Luongo is a 1 shot flopper who gives up monster rebounds while making snow angels in his crease. that flaw aside.. he'll be an average NHL goalie this year. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote: so the team in front of Luongo in 2011 was not as good aas the team in front of Price? reductio ad absurdum Luongo's play off performances are a train wreck. propose the trade of Price for Luongo to any one who knows anything about NHL goaltending. you'll get laughed at. Too often... Luongo is a 1 shot flopper who gives up monster rebounds while making snow angels in his crease. that flaw aside.. he'll be an average NHL goalie this year. I don't care what the team did in the regular season, if it can only score 8 goals in seven games you aren't going to win four. Saying Luongo lost the finals for the Canucks is like saying someone lost to DTs when really they just macrod poorly and would have lost to any particular units as their opponent was doubling their food count. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17682 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:42 iCanada wrote: I don't care what the team did in the regular season, if it can only score 8 goals in seven games you aren't going to win four. Saying Luongo lost the finals for the Canucks is like saying someone lost to DTs when really they just macrod poorly and would have lost to any particular units as their opponent was doubling their food count. don't make parallels with polygons on an LCD screen. or for SC1 that'd be sprites on a cathod ray tube. i dont care what the team is... if they can't make it past the first round of the playoffs....blah blah blah...there how is that? Luongo's problems go a lot farther back than the 2011 finals. i told u his big flaw as a goalie. ... if u just want ot pretend every shooter going high on him is a coincidence have fun deluding yourself. its interesting you refuse to make a counter prediction lolz... i'll say it again.. Luongo will be an average goalie this year... Price will be at minimum above average. There are goalies like Hasek and Belfour who can play into their 40s and adapt to their own slowly diminishing reflexes and skills. Luongo won't be 1 of those guys because he lacks the rock solid confidence... get set for some big time meltdowns this year... kind of like all those games against Chicago and Boston in the past 3 or 4 play off years. | ||
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Remfire
492 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:49 JimmyJRaynor wrote: don't make parallels with polygons on an LCD screen. or for SC1 that'd be sprites on a cathod ray tube. i dont care what the team is... if they can't make it past the first round of the playoffs....blah blah blah...there how is that? Luongo's problems go a lot farther back than the 2011 finals. i told u his big flaw as a goalie. ... if u just want ot pretend every shooter going high on him is a coincidence have fun deluding yourself. its interesting you refuse to make a counter prediction lolz... i'll say it again.. Luongo will be an average goalie this year... Price will be at minimum above average. There are goalies like Hasek and Belfour who can play into their 40s and adapt to their own slowly diminishing reflexes and skills. Luongo won't be 1 of those guys because he lacks the rock solid confidence... get set for some big time meltdowns this year... kind of like all those games against Chicago and Boston in the past 3 or 4 play off years. I don't think you can make a good prediction on how any particular goaltender will play. Like I said before, except for few specific cases it is really defensive schemes that define a goaltenders stats. If a team hold shots to the outside, clears secondary chances, and doesn't frequently miss defensive assignments any goaltender who has made it pro can have reasonable stats. I don't think luongo is a poor mental preformer. If anything, I think that his how he has been so successful, successful enough to be able to consistently be a player that allows his team to stay in hockey games regardless how many games a year he is playing. A guy has to be very strong mentally to be an NHL goaltender. Honestly I think Luongo has mediocre technique when it comes to goaltending, his positioning is suspect and pucks for whatever reason don't stick to him, but he is definitely a battler and someone who is able to go out and compete. Infact, I'd argue most NHL HHoF goaltenders have had the same amount of suspect starts as luongo has over the years. Look at a guy like Grant Fuhr, Ken Dryden, or Billy Smith... even guys yet to be honoured like Broduer, Hasek, Khabbibulin, Osgood, and Belfour guys considered great goaltenders who won in clutch situations had ample failures as well. It isn't a goaltenders failures that define them, it is whether or not they can use those to help them succeed later. | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
And your predictions won't make Price better. If it happens, then alright, he'll be better than Luongo, but it didn't happened yet so you can't imply that Price is better than Luongo based on your predictions. For now Luongo is better than Price. But it may change this season depending or their seasons, but I highly doubt that since Luongo is still a more than stable goalie while Price only had 1 good year. And your point that Price is better than Lundqvist killed your argument at start. You just can't be serious about that one... Edit: and Kiprusoff, Backstrom and Bryzgalov, just how? | ||
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
Back to Luongo, I'd give him a month before starting to say that he's having a terribad season imo. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
If Lou sposts a 35+ save shutout vs Edmonton tomorrow I bet everyoone will be like OMG Lou is amazing. + Show Spoiler + But thats not gonna happen because Lou is gonna get yanked after letting in 2 goals on 3 shots in the first | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 15 2011 18:20 Orcasgt24 wrote: I love how people give crap too goalies during the first few games. FYI guys, starting goalies tend to play the least in the preseason so they are usally still cold from the off-season for a couple games (2 months if your Kipper :p[nessesary flames cheap shot from an oiler fan]). If Lou sposts a 35+ save shutout vs Edmonton tomorrow I bet everyoone will be like OMG Lou is amazing. + Show Spoiler + But thats not gonna happen because Lou is gonna get yanked after letting in 2 goals on 3 shots in the first And my poor Oilers won't muster 35 shots on net. -.- All those skilled young forwards never have the puck... I hope Whitney is back soon. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32157 Posts
On October 15 2011 06:30 JimmyJRaynor wrote: just 1 example in the 2011 playoffs we saw Price > Luongo. Vancouver has a better team than Montreal. both took Boston to 7 games. Luongo got lit up... .bad. I too look at a seven game series over an 82 game season (or career stats!) when trying to determine which goalie is better. Such sound logic you use there! I'd love to hear the logic used to determine the stuff on the other page On October 15 2011 06:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote: just quickly going through this list. he is better than Kiprusoft Lundqvist, Bryzgalov, Backstrom and Luongo. that leaves 7 guys. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17682 Posts
On October 16 2011 00:57 Hawk wrote: I too look at a seven game series over an 82 game season (or career stats!) when trying to determine which goalie is better. Such sound logic you use there! Playoffs are on a whole other level. try watching games... Luongo is a flopper whose game is deteriorating. From 2000 to 2002 Luongo was an above average to very good. That was 10 years ago though. I've already told you what Luongo is going to do this year. You don't have the balls to do anything but recite numbers. The playoffs are more important than the regular season. What makes Bernie Parent, Billy Smith, Patrick Roy, Dominik Hasek and JS Giguere legendary is what they did during the playoffs not what they did during the regular season. In fact, Bernie Parent and Billy Smith have very ordinary regular seasons. Price was better than Luongo during the previous regular season because the team he played in front of was not as good. Price will be better than Luongo this year. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17682 Posts
On October 15 2011 14:04 iCanada wrote: don't think you can make a good prediction on how any particular goaltender will play. Like I said before, except for few specific cases it is really defensive schemes that define a goaltenders stats. If a team hold shots to the outside, clears secondary chances, and doesn't frequently miss defensive assignments any goaltender who has made it pro can have reasonable stats. I don't think luongo is a poor mental preformer. If anything, I think that his how he has been so successful, successful enough to be able to consistently be a player that allows his team to stay in hockey games regardless how many games a year he is playing. A guy has to be very strong mentally to be an NHL goaltender. Honestly I think Luongo has mediocre technique when it comes to goaltending, his positioning is suspect and pucks for whatever reason don't stick to him, but he is definitely a battler and someone who is able to go out and compete. Check out how Ed Belfour, Vladislav Tretiak, and Tim Thomas play goalie. That is how its done when you get older and your reflexes begin to fail. Luongo's game is in decline. The single most important factor in winning in the NHL is goaltending. Not a "defensive scheme". Call up the Fan590 and try to say otherwise to any of the former NHLers that on the air. Roger Lajouie, Nick Kypreos, and Doug Maclean will laugh you off the air. What do the best NHL GMs do to hold their jobs? Get a great goalie. Quinn > John Ferguson Junior. Quinn gets Belfour and Joseph. JFJ gets goalies who he thinks "might possibly do it" with some "additional training". The Red Wings want to win the Cup and have a hole at goaltender and what do they do? They get Hasek and Joseph. The position most frequently winning the Conn Smythe Trophy is not Centre, Left Wing or Defense. It is Goalie.. and for good reason. The single most important factor in Boston's win over Vancouver in the 2011 playoffs was that TIm THomas outplayed Roberto Luongo. And Thomas has the Smythe hardware to back it up. On October 15 2011 14:04 iCanada wrote: Infact, I'd argue most NHL HHoF goaltenders have had the same amount of suspect starts as luongo has over the years. Look at a guy like Grant Fuhr, Ken Dryden, or Billy Smith... even guys yet to be honoured like Broduer, Hasek, Khabbibulin, Osgood, and Belfour guys considered great goaltenders who won in clutch situations had ample failures as well. It isn't a goaltenders failures that define them, it is whether or not they can use those to help them succeed later. Bad Post. Don't compare Luongo to Billy Smith... just dont... read some of what Denis Potvin or Clarke Gillies have written about how dropping GLenn "Chico" Resch and replacing him with Billy Smith. This was the single most important decision allowing them to win 4 straight stanley cups. from 1977 to 1979 the NYI were the best regular season team in the NHL. 1 Problem. Glenn Resch is garbage. In 1980 BIlly Smith replaced him as the starter. How in the name of Harold Ballard did the 1978 Leafs defeat the powerhouse Islanders in teh quarter finals with Borje Salming and Lanny Macdonald both injured? The Islanders had garbage goaltending and the greatest "defensive scheme" in the NHL. "Goalie teams" backed by guys liek Hasek, Curtis Joseph, JS Giguere and Dwayne Rollie take down teams they have no business beating over the past 15 years because of how important the goaltender position is. | ||
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