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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
The kid has two goals already in the first period against the Vancouver Canucks. I guarantee this kid stays in the NHL, he has three of the four Oiler goals. ^_^ Such great vision, such great positioning, such hussle, makes smart decisions quickly, surprisingly effective in his own end (he has such great habits)... if only the kid could win a faceoff, he would be perfect. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On October 16 2011 05:41 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The position most frequently winning the Conn Smythe Trophy is not Centre, Left Wing or Defense. It is Goalie.. and for good reason. As usual, you're just making shit up. Over the past 20 years, a goalie has won the Conn Smythe 5 times, and a center has 9 times. Even all time, a goalie has 15 times, and a center has 16 times. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17467 Posts
On October 16 2011 12:09 GolemMadness wrote: As usual, you're just making shit up. Over the past 20 years, a goalie has won the Conn Smythe 5 times, and a center has 9 times. Even all time, a goalie has 15 times, and a center has 16 times. as usual you are making stuff up. Mark Messier won the Conn Smythe as a Left Winger and only played part of the finals as a Centre due to an injury. Even during the finals he was on a line centred by Linseman. So why he listed as winning as a "Centre" i'll never know. Messier also was on a 2nd Team All Star for 1984 as a LEFT WINGER. Goalie 15 Centre 14  ya... let's compare Billy Smith to Roberto Luongo. | ||
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Kralic
Canada2628 Posts
On October 16 2011 05:41 JimmyJRaynor wrote: "Goalie teams" backed by guys liek Hasek, Curtis Joseph, JS Giguere and Dwayne Rollie take down teams they have no business beating over the past 15 years because of how important the goaltender position is. I would agree, but watching Curtis Joseph choke so many last second goals (GWG or Tying) in the playoffs for Edmonton was enough for me to never consider him a top tier goalie. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17467 Posts
On October 16 2011 12:18 Kralic wrote: I would agree, but watching Curtis Joseph choke so many last second goals (GWG or Tying) in the playoffs for Edmonton was enough for me to never consider him a top tier goalie. Joseph was the prime reason the Oilers eliminated the powerhouse Dallas Stars in 1997 the primary reason Kaberle, Mccabe et al looked like decent defensemen from 1999 to 2002 was Curtis Joseph. Belfour continued this for 2003 and 2004. Once these guys were gone Mccabe and Kaberle looked terrible. From 1999 to 2004 played in more play off games than any other NHL team. You can thank Belfour and Cujo for this. Their "#1 defensive tandem" of "Mccabe and Kaberle" were average at best. Now if you acually went to the ACC and watched the games you can tell that Scott Steven and the rest of the New Jersey Defense was 10X better than Mccabe Kaberle et al. For chrissakes Kaberle can't move Martin St. Louis from the front of the net... and Kaberle loses so many battles for pucks along the boards its just sad... this is why Chiarelli "called him out" last year. The Leafs had no business defeating the 2000 Senators and managing to take the Stanley Cup champion New Jersey Devils to SEVEN GAMES in the next round. Joseph > Luongo | ||
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 16 2011 12:18 Kralic wrote: I would agree, but watching Curtis Joseph choke so many last second goals (GWG or Tying) in the playoffs for Edmonton was enough for me to never consider him a top tier goalie. Like I said, all of the "ELITE" goaltenders have had the same struggles as Luongo has. Difference is, the rest of the teams fanbases didn't scapegoat their goaltender, and blamed the missed defensive assignments instead. EDIT: Also, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins grabbed his first NHL hattrick in the second period with a powerplay goal. Beauty. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17467 Posts
On October 16 2011 12:52 iCanada wrote: Like I said, all of the "ELITE" goaltenders have had the same struggles as Luongo has. Beauty. Luongo has never carried a team the way Tretiak, Belfour, Billy Smith Roy, and Hasek have. not even close. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 16 2011 13:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Luongo has never carried a team the way Tretiak, Belfour, Billy Smith Roy, and Hasek have. not even close. Really? I think he carried the Canucks for years... remember the Sedins have only been top flight players for two years, and even then the Canucks don't really get that much secondary scoring without a guy like Ryan Kesler. Luongo has carried the Canucks hard over the years. Hell, he just won them a game in edmonton by making damn good saves when the team needed them. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17467 Posts
do you actually watch playoff series that are changed by the goalie? didn't u watch Tim Thomas last year? take what Thomas did and stretch that out over 15 years and that is what you get with Dominik Hasek or Ed Belfour. sry man ... the Islanders only losing 2 overtime games in 4 playoffs years is a bit better an accomplishment than winning the 4th game of the regular season. Luongo is average and average goalies some times play well... he's a first shot flopper and he gets exposed over the long term.... | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 16 2011 14:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Edmonton ... u serious? wow .. Luongo only gave up 3 goals to the worst team in the NHL .. let's party. do you actually watch playoff series that are changed by the goalie? didn't u watch Tim Thomas last year? take what Thomas did and stretch that out over 15 years and that is what you get with Dominik Hasek or Ed Belfour. sry man ... the Islanders only losing 2 overtime games in 4 playoffs years is a bit better an accomplishment than winning the 4th game of the regular season. Luongo is average and average goalies some times play well... he's a first shot flopper and he gets exposed over the long term.... Have you seen Price tonight? It was probably the worst game of his entire career. Subban too. These 2 guys are way too overrated in Montreal for no damn reason. My point stand still, Price is an average goaltender, there is at least 15 goalies that are better than him in that league. he's still young tho, and that's his only plus against other goaltenders. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 16 2011 14:23 Essbee wrote: Have you seen Price tonight? It was probably the worst game of his entire career. Subban too. These 2 guys are way too overrated in Montreal for no damn reason. My point stand still, Price is an average goaltender, there is at least 15 goalies that are better than him in that league. he's still young tho, and that's his only plus against other goaltenders. Don't worry about it. Obviously every goaltender should be able to save cross crease passes on the powerplay, point blank deflections, and powerplay goals where four appossing players crash the crease unimpeded. I can't believe Luongo didn't save those, I mean, my friggen grandma could. | ||
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
![[image loading]](http://myimg.us/images/10.16.11/20958.gif) Dat Ballard | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17467 Posts
On October 16 2011 14:23 Essbee wrote: Have you seen Price tonight? It was probably the worst game of his entire career. Subban too. These 2 guys are way too overrated in Montreal for no damn reason. My point stand still, Price is an average goaltender, there is at least 15 goalies that are better than him in that league. he's still young tho, and that's his only plus against other goaltenders. yes, the defining moment of any goalie's career happens in the middle of october. the goalie doesn't matter though. all u need is Kaberle and Mccabe in a good defensive scheme and any one can stop the puck because Belfour was an average goalie playing in front of great defenses.tell ya man.. that 1993 Montreal Canadiens defense really made Roy look good. That Soviet Red Army Defensive Scheme that left Guy Lafleur open for like 5 point blank pot shots at Tretiak was exactly as it was mapped out... the Soviets wanted to get outshot 40-13 and play the whole game behind their own blue line it was all part of their plan. Dryden played just as good as Tretiak that game because the final score was 3-3. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 16 2011 16:49 JimmyJRaynor wrote: yes, the defining moment of any goalie's career happens in the middle of october. the goalie doesn't matter though. all u need is Kaberle and Mccabe in a good defensive scheme and any one can stop the puck because Belfour was an average goalie playing in front of great defenses.tell ya man.. that 1993 Montreal Canadiens defense really made Roy look good. That Soviet Red Army Defensive Scheme that left Guy Lafleur open for like 5 point blank pot shots at Tretiak was exactly as it was mapped out... the Soviets wanted to get outshot 40-13 and play the whole game behind their own blue line it was all part of their plan. Dryden played just as good as Tretiak that game because the final score was 3-3. The same Patrick Roy that had a ton of struggles the next year, and flat out refused to play for the Canadiens because he kept getting hung out to dry? What a terrible example to cherry pick. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32132 Posts
On October 16 2011 23:23 iCanada wrote: The same Patrick Roy that had a ton of struggles the next year, and flat out refused to play for the Canadiens because he kept getting hung out to dry? What a terrible example to cherry pick. What????? Don't you know it's all about the playoffs baby? Osgood-goalie of the century. Kiss the Rings, baby. It's all about playoff performance! Clearly, Price is better than Luongo (and Lunqvist, and Vokoun, and a whole bunch of other studs!) because he took the B's to 7! (not like he plays behind one of the best defenisve teams in the league) I guess what I'm trying to say is that Jimmy has no goddamn idea what he's talking about, and can't even form a shitty opinion with logic that stays consistent throughout. | ||
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Kralic
Canada2628 Posts
On October 16 2011 12:28 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Joseph was the prime reason the Oilers eliminated the powerhouse Dallas Stars in 1997 I wouldn't consider winning two playoff series for Edmonton a huge milestone. Hasek has taken a team to the finals (BUF), DET doesn't really count due to their Defensive lineup when he played. (He was a great playoff goaltender as well) Dwayne Rolson took EDM to the finals on a stacked team (And would have won it if he did not get hurt), and then he took Tampa Bay deep on a team that wasn't expected to make it that deep. (He is a great playoff goaltender.) JSG won the cup with the ducks and played out of his mind. (Have to see how he does if Toronto makes the playoffs to see if he is) Curtis Joseph took his team to the second round a few times. (DET, and EDM) He did make it to the conference finals once or twice with Toronto though. I still wouldn't peg him as one of the best playoff goalies though. (I am not trying to take anything away from him, I just can't see him put in such high regard over a few first round playoff wins) Chris Osgood was probably the best playoff goaltender in his generation. He was deemed terrible in the regular season and then backstopped DET to the cup a few times and the finals a few times. (Especially with the DET defensive line the last few years) | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27172 Posts
On October 16 2011 11:59 iCanada wrote: Goaltending philosophies aside, RNH is playing incredible to start the year. The kid has two goals already in the first period against the Vancouver Canucks. I guarantee this kid stays in the NHL, he has three of the four Oiler goals. ^_^ Such great vision, such great positioning, such hussle, makes smart decisions quickly, surprisingly effective in his own end (he has such great habits)... if only the kid could win a faceoff, he would be perfect. durrr... the CBC commentators compared Hall to Messier and RNH to Gretzky during that game. NO PRESSURE KIDS! I wish I could punch Scott Oake in the face. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27172 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32132 Posts
On October 17 2011 07:23 Manifesto7 wrote: And honestly, if I had been Mike Gillis in the off season, I would have send Luongo to Philly for their center men that they didn't want and made Schneider my full time goalie. Luongo has a stupid contract and after a poor start to this season his stock is way down. I agree, I think Schneider is probably the real deal, at least good enough with that team as it's built, but they really don't need another center I don't think. Sedin-Kessler is a pretty sweet 1-2, but I guess you could flip someone outside | ||
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